adi guru

[Guest guest]

Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of

miserly weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me for certain

what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto

You. Please instruct me.

[Guest guest]

Accept Srila Prabhupada and reject the substitutes.

 

 

 

 

--- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

wrote:

 

> Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all

> composure because of

> miserly weakness. In this condition I am asking You

> to tell me for certain

> what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a

> soul surrendered unto

> You. Please instruct me.

>

>

-----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email

> to:

> Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Accept Srila Prabhupada and reject the substitutes.

 

It would be nice if you took your own advice instead of a poor substitute

like KK Desai.

[Guest guest]

> Accept Srila Prabhupada and reject the substitutes.

>

>

>

>

> --- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

> wrote:

>

> > Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all

> > composure because of

> > miserly weakness. In this condition I am asking You

> > to tell me for certain

> > what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a

> > soul surrendered unto

> > You. Please instruct me.

> >

 

 

So Thanks for instructing me Im accepting Srila Prabhupada,and rejecting

substitutes.Sorry I cant reject anyone because all devotees are my siksa

gurus ,and even from so to say bad thinks or not so advanced devotees I can

learn much.I can learn how to be better servant in Service of Srila

Prabhupada,and vaisnavas.I have learned that I should spend much time

changing my self ,and be better devotee.

 

Hari bol!

[Guest guest]

substitute - A person or thing that takes or can take

the place of another.

 

Our Position is that, Srila Prabhupada is the diksa

guru in ISKCON.

 

Jayapataka and the other pretenders who have replaced

Srila Prabhupada as the ISKCON diksa guru are the real

substitutes.

 

 

 

 

--- "Jahnu (Dvipa das JPS) (Mayapur - IN)"

<Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

 

>

> > Accept Srila Prabhupada and reject the

> substitutes.

>

> It would be nice if you took your own advice instead

> of a poor substitute

> like KK Desai.

>

 

 

 

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ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>substitute - A person or thing that takes or can take

>the place of another.

 

>Our Position is that, Srila Prabhupada is the diksa

>guru in ISKCON.

Srila Prabhupada has different opinion

 

"One who is now the disciple is the next

spiritual master."

 

 

>Jayapataka and the other pretenders who have replaced

>Srila Prabhupada as the ISKCON diksa guru are the real

>substitutes.

Srila prabhupad has different opinion again

 

"One who is now the disciple is the next

spiritual master."

 

"Everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is

competent to make disciples. But as a matter of

etiquette they do not do so in the presence of

their spiritual master. This is the etiquette.

Otherwise, they are competent. They can make

disciples and spread they are competent to make

disciples."

 

Detroit, July 18, 1971

 

 

 

 

>

> > Accept Srila Prabhupada and reject the

> substitutes.

>

> It would be nice if you took your own advice instead

> of a poor substitute

> like KK Desai.

>

 

 

 

Learn the truth about the Ritvik hoax from ISKCON

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

--- "Tripada (das) wrote:

 

> >substitute - A person or thing that takes or can

> take

> >the place of another.

>

> >Our Position is that, Srila Prabhupada is the diksa

> >guru in ISKCON.

 

 

You said....

> Srila Prabhupada has different opinion

>

> "One who is now the disciple is the next

> spiritual master."

>

 

 

Please note Srila Prabhupada does NOT say -

 

"One who is now the disciple is the next

> diksa guru."

 

 

So please demonstrate how he disagree's as you have

claimed.

 

 

 

 

>

> >Jayapataka and the other pretenders who have

> replaced

> >Srila Prabhupada as the ISKCON diksa guru are the

> real

> >substitutes.

> Srila prabhupad has different opinion again

 

 

 

Please note Srila Prabhupada does NOT say -

 

"One who is now the disciple is the next

> diksa guru."

>

 

 

 

 

> "Everyone can, whoever is initiated,

> he is

> competent to make disciples. But as a

> matter of

> etiquette they do not do so in the

> presence of

> their spiritual master. This is the

> etiquette.

> Otherwise, they are competent. They

> can make

> disciples and spread they are

> competent to make

> disciples."

>

> Detroit, July 18, 1971

>

>

>

 

 

Yes, as siksa gurus. The diksa guru must be a

mahabagavat.

 

 

Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam

sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih

maha-kula-prasuto' pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah

sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah

 

 "The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of

devotional service. There are three classes of

devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the

topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

 

"When one has attained the topmost position of

maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and

worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of

Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the

post of a guru."

(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

 

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ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Yes, as siksa gurus. The diksa guru must be a

> mahabagavat.

 

Says who? The quote below doesn't say that the diksa guru must be a

mahabhagavat.

 

> Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam

> sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih

> maha-kula-prasuto' pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah

> sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah

 

>  "The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of

> devotional service. There are three classes of

> devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the

> topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

 

This is all meaningless coming from someone like you. You wouldn't recognise

a mahabhagavata if he fell on your head in broad daylight. Any idiot can

quote from a book.

 

But just for the record, there are also quotes such as:

 

vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam jihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam etan

vegan yo visaheta dhirah sarvam apimam prthivim sa sisyat

 

"A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's

demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and

genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world." (Nectar

of Instruction 1)

 

sastra-yukty sunipuna drdha-sraddha yanra 'uttama-adhikari, sei

taraye samsara

 

"One who is expert in logic, argument and the revealed scriptures

and who has firm faith in Krsna is classified as a topmost devotee.

He can deliver the whole world." (Cc M.22.65)

 

"A person who is constantly engaged in devotional service by his

body, mind and words, or even a person who is not practically

engaged but is simply desiring to be so, is considered to be

liberated." (NOD Ch.11)

 

"The qualification of a spiritual master is that he must have

realized the conclusion of the scriptures by deliberation and

arguments and thus be able to convince others of these conclusions.

Such great personalities who have taken shelter of the Supreme

Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, are to be

understood as bona fide spiritual masters." (SB 11.3.21 quoted in

NOD Ch.7)

 

"A person who is always chanting the holy name of the Lord is to be

considered a first-class Vaisnava, and your duty is to serve his

lotus feet." (Cc M.16.172)

 

Then we have these statements from Srila Prabhupada. In chapter 3 of

NOD he defines an uttama-adhikari:

 

"He is very expert in the study of relevant scriptures, and he is

also expert in putting forward arguments in terms of those

scriptures. He very nicely presents conclusions with perfect

discretion in considering the ways of devotional service in a

decisive way. He understands perfectly that the ultimate goal of

life is to attain the transcendental loving service of Krsna, and he

knows that Krsna is the only object of worship and love.

 

This first-class devotee is one who has strictly followed the rules

and regulations under the training of a bona fide spiritual master

and has sincerely obeyed him in accord with revealed scriptures.

Thus, being fully trained to preach and become a spiritual master

himself, he is considered first-class.

 

The first-class devotee never deviates from the principles of higher

authority, and he attains firm faith in the scripture by

understanding with all reason and arguments. When we speak of

arguments and reason, it means arguments and reason on the basis of

revealed scriptures."

 

"A conditioned soul is hampered by four defects: he is sure to

commit mistakes, he is sure to become illusioned, he has a tendency

to cheat others, and his senses are imperfect. Consequently we have

to take direction from liberated persons. This Krsna consciousness

movement directly receives instructions from the Supreme Personality

of Godhead via persons who are strictly following His instructions.

Although a follower may not be a liberated person, if he follows the

supreme liberated Personality of Godhead, his actions are naturally

liberated from the contamination of material nature. Lord Caitanya

therefore says: 'By My order you may become a spiritual master.' One

can immediately become a spiritual master by having full faith in

the transcendental words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and

by following His instructions." (SB 4.18.5p)

 

"Sanatana Gosvami clearly defines the bona fide spiritual master.

One must act according to the scriptural injunctions and at the same

time preach.One who does so is a bona fide spiritual master.

Haridasa Thakura was the ideal spiritual master because he regularly

chanted on his beads the prescribed number of times. Indeed, he was

chanting the holy name of the Lord three hundred thousand times a

day. Similarly, the members of the Krsna consciousness movement

chant the minimum number of sixteen rounds a day, which can be done

without difficulty, and at the same time they must preach the cult

of Caitanya Mahaprabhu according to the gospel of Bhagavad-gita As

It Is. One who does so is quite fit to become a spiritual master for

the entire world." (Cc Ant 4.103p)

 

"When a neophyte devotee is actually initiated and engaged in

devotional service by the orders of the spiritual master, he should

be accepted immediately as a bona fide Vaisnava, and obeisances

should be offered unto him. Out of many such Vaisnavas, one may be

found to be very seriously engaged in the service of the Lord and

strictly following all the regulative principles, chanting the

prescribed number of rounds on japa beads and always thinking of how

to spread the Krsna consciousness movement. Such a Vaisnava should

be accepted as an uttama-adhikari, highly advanced devotee, and his

association should always be sought." (NOI 5p)

 

"A first-class devotee does not at all see anyone who is not in the

service of the Lord, but the second-class devotee makes distinctions

between devotees and non-devotees. The second-class devotees are

therefore meant for preaching work, and as referred to in the above

verse, they must loudly preach the glories of the Lord. The

second-class devotee accepts disciplesfrom the section of

third-class devotees or non-devotees. Sometimes the first-class

devotee also comes down to the category of a second-class devotee

for preaching work." (SB 2.3.21p)

 

"When a person realizes himself to be an eternal servitor of Krsna,

he loses interest in everything but Krsna's service. Always thinking

of Krsna, devising means by which to spread the holy name of Krsna,

he understands that his only business is in spreading the Krsna

consciousness movement all over the world. Such a person is to be

recognized as an uttama-adhikari, and his association should be

immediately accepted. Indeed, the advanced uttama-adhikari Vaisnava

devotee should be accepted as a spiritual master. Everything one

possesses should be offered to him." (NOI 5p)

 

"The spiritual master's qualification is that he is brahma-nistham,

which means that he has given up all other activities and has

dedicated his life to working only for the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, Krsna. ... The prime symptom of one who has become a

spiritual master in disciplic succession is that he is one hundred

percent fixed in bhakti-yoga." (Krsna, The Supreme Personality of

Godhead)

 

"The madhyama-adhikari Vaisnava can awaken others to Krsna

consciousness and engage them in duties whereby they can advance."

(Cc M.16.74p)

 

"Everyone begins his devotional life in the neophyte stage, but if

one properly finishes chanting the prescribed number of rounds of

hari-nama, he is elevated step by step to the highest platform,

uttama-adhikari." (NOI 5p)

 

"The siksa- or diksa-guru who has a disciple who strongly executes

devotional service like Dhruva Maharaja can be carried by the

disciple even though the instructor is not as advanced. The Krsna

consciousness movement is spreading now all over the world, and

sometimes I think that even though I am crippled in many ways, if

one of my disciples becomes as strong as Dhruva Maharaja, then he

will be able to carry me with him to Vaikuntha." (SB 4.12.33p)

 

"Unless one is actually a devotee, he cannot see another devotee

perfectly. One should therefore avoid observing a pure devotee

externally, but should try to see the internal features and

understand how he is engaged in the transcendental loving service of

the Lord. In this way one can avoid seeing the pure devotee from a

material point of view, and thus one can gradually become a purified

devotee himself." (NOI 6p)

 

"Our system, parampara system, is that, for example, I am just a

disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. I don't say that I am

liberated, I am conditioned. But because I am following the

instruction of Bhaktisiddhanta, I'm liberated. This is the

distinction between conditioned and liberated. When one is under the

direction of a liberated person...The same thing: Electricity. The

copper is not electricity, but, when it is charged with electricity

if it is touched, that is electricity. And similarly, this parampara

system, the electricity is going. If you cut the parampara system,

then there is no electricity. Therefore it is stressed so much. Sa

kalena mahata yogo nastah parantapa [bg 4.2: 'In course of time the

succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to

be lost']. The electricity is lost." (Morning Walk, Bombay, 1/4/77)

 

"Yes, [those who follow] they're also pure devotees because they're

following my instruction. Just like a technician, he is expert, but

somebody is assisting him. So the assistants, because they are

following the instruction of the expert, therefore their work is

also complete. So it is not necessarily that one has to become pure

devotee immediately. Just like we are also following the instruction

our spiritual master. I don't claim that I am pure devotee or

perfect, but my only qualification is that I am trying to follow the

instruction of the perfect. Similarly... This is called disciplic

succession . Just like here it is stated that Krsna is the original

spiritual master and Arjuna is the original student."

 

"...If we follow Arjuna and Krsna, then we get the perfect

knowledge. We may not be cent percent perfect, but as far as

possible, if we follow the instruction as it is, that much perfect.,

In this way one will get perfection. So one has to follow. The same

example, try to understand, that a perfect, expert technologist or

technician or mechanic is working, and somebody is working under his

instruction. So this somebody, because he is strictly working under

the instruction of the expert, he's also expert. He may not be cent

percent expert, but his work is expert. Is that clear?

 

Because he is working under the expert. Do you follow? So if you

follow pure devotee, then you are also pure devotee. It may not be

one is cent percent pure. Because we are trying to raise ourself

from the conditional life. But if we strictly follow the pure

devotee, then we are also pure devotee. So far we do, that is pure.

So pure devotee does not mean one has to become immediately cent

percent pure. But if he sticks to the principle that 'we'll follow a

pure devotee,' then his actions are...he is as good as a pure

devotee. It is not I am explaining in my own way. It is the

explanation of the Bhagavat. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. we have

to follow the footprints of pure devotees." (Lecture, Los Angeles,

11/25/68)