Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Posted by Yaduraja on Nov 20, 2005:

 

Dear Ramakanta prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

I had said:

 

1) From the very earliest time in ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada personally

conducted initiation ceremonies in which all the initiates became his

disciples. He did this willingly and of his own volition.

 

You comment:

 

Quote:

"Of his own volition" is incorrect. Srila Prabhupada said that one cannot

become guru without being ordered by the predecessor acarya.”

 

 

We fully agree that the diksa guru must be authorised, I am glad we will not

need to ever argue that point.

 

You have misunderstood my meaning. I meant that after having been so

authorised or ordered, Srila Prabhupada established himself as the sole

diksa guru for ISKCON of his own volition, in other words he willingly and

deliberately took the position he was authorised or ordered to take. Free

will exists by which one could choose NOT to act as authoruised or ordered.

In acting willingly with the orders he was given Srila Prabhupada

establishing himself as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966.

 

With regards the 11 points I made previously supporting the fact that Srila

Prabhupada established himself as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966,

you say:

 

Quote:

“I agree with the facts you listed except "of his own volition". But your

conclusion from these facts is unproven.”

 

 

I reply:

 

You are not quite getting my point for some reason. You say:

 

“The status quo from 1966 to 1977 was that Srila Prabhupada was the sole

initiator. And there is more than one possible reason why he was the sole

initiator.”

 

The above perfectly expresses what you are not grasping. Whatever reason you

may want to give for WHY that status quo existed (and I have noted your

idea), the fact is you must agree that it DID exist. You then go on to

confuse point b) with point a):

 

“If Srila Prabhupada had established himself as the sole diksa guru for

ISKCON (also for the time after his departure)”

 

We will discuss what provisions Srila Prabhupada made ‘for the time after

his departure’ NEXT. That comes under point b). We are still on point a) and

finally, praise the Lord, you have agreed:

 

“The status quo from 1966 to 1977 was that Srila Prabhupada was the sole

initiator.”(Ramakanta das)

 

So prabhuji, whenever you claim we have not proven point a) I shall just

keep on posting the above sentence where you state it as a fact.

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu