siksa-diksa

[Guest guest]

.. According to çästric injunctions, there is no difference between

çiknä-guru and déknä-guru, and generally the çiknä-guru later on becomes the

déknä-guru.

ACBSP

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada has clearly stated many times that

siksa and diksa gurus are the same, since they both

take one to Krsna. Also everyone is eligible to become

either siksa or diksa guru However the minimum

qualifications do differ.

 

"Yare dekha, tare kaha, Krsna upadesa. You haven't got

to manufacture anything. What Krsna has already said,

you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, adulteration,

then you become guru [...] I may be fool, rascal [...]

so we have to follow this path, that you become guru,

deliver your neighbourhood men, associates, but speak

the authoritative words of Krsna then it will act

[...] anyone can do. A child can do. "

(Morning Walk May 11th 1977)

 

Here Lord Caitanya has stated that simply by repeating

what he has heard, one is already a siksa guru. The

qualification to be a Diksa or Parampara Guru, as we

shall now see, is much more demanding.

 

Parampara

 

Let us briefly examine what Srila Prabhupada states to

be the qualifications of a parampara, or diksa guru:

 

"Unless one is initiated by the right person, who

always carries within his heart the Supreme

Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power

to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of ones

own heart." (SB (BBT 1987) 10.2.18)

 

"On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated

person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person

to Krsna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual

benediction from higher authorities. " (SPL (VI 1987)

68.4.18)

 

"Any person who seriously desires to achieve real

happiness must seek out a bona fide spiritual master

and take shelter of him by initiation. The

qualification of his spiritual master is that he must

have realised the conclusion of the scriptures by

deliberation and be able to convince others of these

conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken

shelter of the supreme godhead, leaving aside all

material considerations, are to be understand as bona

fide spiritual masters. "

(SB (BBT 1987) 11.3.21)

 

Srila Prabhupada cites this verse in a purport to

Srimad Bhagavatam 5.14.41, describing the necessity of

accepting a bona fide spiritual master. In that

purport he cites many of the important verses on guru

tattva:. brahmanda brahmite; tad vijnanartham; tad

viddhi; ta erad gurum; and yasya prasadad

bhagavat-prasadah. He mentions the qualification of

purity or self realisation of the guru twice: 'One

cannot get from the path of material existence until

one receives shelter at the lotus feet of a pure

devotee'. And in commenting on all of these cited

verses, he observes: 'This is essential. One must come

to Krsna Consciousness, and therefore one must take

shelter of a pure devotee. Thus one can become free

from the clutches of matter'.

 

However we challenge anyone to produce one quote which

supports the conclusion that a diksa guru can ever be

anything other than a self-realised pure devotee.

 

 

 

 

--- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

wrote:

 

> . According to çästric injunctions, there is no

> difference between

> çiknä-guru and déknä-guru, and generally the

> çiknä-guru later on becomes the

> déknä-guru.

> ACBSP

>

>

-----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email

> to:

> Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Srila Prabhupada has clearly stated many times that

> siksa and diksa gurus are the same, since they both

> take one to Krsna. Also everyone is eligible to become

> either siksa or diksa guru However the minimum

> qualifications do differ.

"increase the number of generations": "I want

that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will

inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the

family transcendental diploma will continue

through the generations. Those possessing the

title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to

initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975 all of my

disciples will be allowed to initiate and

increase the number of generations. That is my

program."

 

(Srila Pabhupada letter to Hamsadutta, 3rd

December, 1968)

 

 

"...I am very much hopeful that my disciples who

are now participating today, even if I die, my

movement will not stop. I am very much hopeful,

yes. All these nice boys and girls who have

taken so seriously... You will have to become

spiritual master... you... all my disciples..."

 

Vyasa-Puja address, London, 22nd August, 1973

 

 

So that is what Srila Prabhupada has stated and you think that he was not

able to finish his plan till now.

And what you are doing to help Srila Prabhupada in his program.

 

> "Yare dekha, tare kaha, Krsna upadesa. You haven't got

> to manufacture anything. What Krsna has already said,

> you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, adulteration,

> then you become guru [...] I may be fool, rascal [...]

> so we have to follow this path, that you become guru,

> deliver your neighbourhood men, associates, but speak

> the authoritative words of Krsna then it will act

> [...] anyone can do. A child can do. "

> (Morning Walk May 11th 1977)

>

> Here Lord Caitanya has stated that simply by repeating

> what he has heard, one is already a siksa guru.

Our parampara gurus dont thing that, they reffer as diksa.

 

 

"This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission, that "I

give you order. You, every one of you become a

spiritual master.Oh, I have no qualification.

How can I become spiritual master? It requires

high knowledge, Sanskrit understanding.No,

you don't require anything. Simply you speak

krsna-upadesa." What is krsna-upadesa? Krsna

says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam

vraja. You simply go door to door and say,

"Please surrender to Krsna." Then you are

spiritual master. I have done this. What I have

done? I have gone to your country to say this

thing, that "Here is Krsna, the Supreme

Personality of Godhead. You surrender; you

become perfect." That is being done. So it is

not very difficult to become spiritual master.

Simply you have to become very serious and

sincere to the service of Krsna."

[back Home]

Delhi, November 4, 1973

 

"You become a spiritual master under my order,

under His order. Don't manufacture yourself.

Under the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That is

called parampara system, one who is following in

disciplic succession the order of Caitanya

Mahaprabhu."

 

"If you are incapable of raising yourself to the

standard of becoming spiritual master, that is

not your spiritual master's fault, that is your

fault. He wants, just like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

said, amara ajnaya guru hana, By My order, every

one of you become a guru."

 

San Diego, June 29, 1972

 

 

"Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's principle is anyone who

knows the science of Krsna, he can become

spiritual master. This is the principle."

 

Vrndavana, October 16, 1972

 

> qualification to be a Diksa or Parampara Guru, as we

> shall now see, is much more demanding.

>

> Parampara

>

> Let us briefly examine what Srila Prabhupada states to

> be the qualifications of a parampara, or diksa guru:

>

> "Unless one is initiated by the right person, who

> always carries within his heart the Supreme

> Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power

> to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of ones

> own heart." (SB (BBT 1987) 10.2.18)

so Your opinion is that Srila Prabhupada was not strong enough

to give Krishna in his disciples hearts.

 

Whery dengerous statement

>

> "On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated

> person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person

> to Krsna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual

> benediction from higher authorities. " (SPL (VI 1987)

> 68.4.18)

So everyone has got duty in KŠa consciousness, and this duty is taught by

KŠa and the spiritual master. Guru-kŠa-kp€ya p€ya bhakti-lat€-b…ja [Cc.

Madhya 19.151]. Ei r™pe brahm€Ša bhramite kono bh€gyav€n j…va. Anyone who

is coming to KŠa consciousness, he's not ordinary living being. Anyone who

is connected with our movement, he's not ordinary living being. Actually,

he's liberated soul.

 

 

"Try to understand this point. Our system,

parampara system, is that I am just like

disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. I don't

say that l am liberated. I am conditioned. But

because I am following the instruction of

Bhaktisiddhanta, I'm liberated. This is the

distinction between conditioned and liberated."

 

January 4, 1977, Bombay

 

 

>

> "Any person who seriously desires to achieve real

> happiness must seek out a bona fide spiritual master

> and take shelter of him by initiation. The

> qualification of his spiritual master is that he must

> have realised the conclusion of the scriptures by

> deliberation and be able to convince others of these

> conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken

> shelter of the supreme godhead, leaving aside all

> material considerations, are to be understand as bona

> fide spiritual masters. "

> (SB (BBT 1987) 11.3.21)

Srila Prabhupada said that his disciples are qualifide

>

> Srila Prabhupada cites this verse in a purport to

> Srimad Bhagavatam 5.14.41, describing the necessity of

> accepting a bona fide spiritual master. In that

> purport he cites many of the important verses on guru

> tattva:. brahmanda brahmite; tad vijnanartham; tad

> viddhi; ta erad gurum; and yasya prasadad

> bhagavat-prasadah. He mentions the qualification of

> purity or self realisation of the guru twice: 'One

> cannot get from the path of material existence until

> one receives shelter at the lotus feet of a pure

> devotee'. And in commenting on all of these cited

> verses, he observes: 'This is essential. One must come

> to Krsna Consciousness, and therefore one must take

> shelter of a pure devotee. Thus one can become free

> from the clutches of matter'.

>

> However we challenge anyone to produce one quote which

> supports the conclusion that a diksa guru can ever be

> anything other than a self-realised pure devotee.

 

 

 

. According to çästric injunctions, there is no

difference between

çiknä-guru and déknä-guru, and generally the

çiknä-guru later on becomes the

déknä-guru.

ACBSP

 

 

Prabhupäda: Then, from Krishna, Närada. From Närada, Vyäsadeva. From

Vyäsadeva to Madhväcärya, from Madhväcärya to Ésvara Puri, Mädhavendra Puri,

then Caitanya Mahäprabhu, then His disciples, the six Goswämés, then Krishna

däsa Kaviräja, then Baladeva Vidyäbhüñaëa. So we are taking account very

rigidly from Caitanya Mahäprabhu, and I am the tenth generation from

Caitanya Mahäprabhu.

Mohsin Hassan: Yeah, the tenth. After you, is it any decision has been made

who will take over?

Prabhupäda: Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are

initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got

many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which

I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual

masters.

Mohsin Hassan: How many swamis do you initiated, American? I'm speaking just

on...

Prabhupäda: About ten.

Mohsin Hassan: You have ten swamis. And outside of swamis, what's the

lower...

Prabhupäda: Now, they're competent. They can, not only the swamis, even the

gåhasthas, they are called däsa adhikäré, and brahmacärés, everyone can,

whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of

etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This

is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and

spread. They can recruit more members in this. They do, but they are being

trained up. Just like here in this meeting, one of my disciples, he is

acting as priest. It is not myself; he is acting. So some of my students,

they are acting as priests, some of them are swamis, so they are competent

to make disciples.

 

 

 

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