Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Dear Yaduraja Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

 

> I do not think you have properly understood most of my last post, so I

> shall try to just go one small step at a time.

 

I have not only understood what you wrote but I have also refuted it. So it

is now your turn to refute my refutation. Just to say "you did not

understand" or to repeat your claim is not sufficient.

 

 

> If you had properly read NCIP then you would know very well to which

> orders I am referring.

 

Since I did not want to speculate, I asked you what you meant.

 

The NCIP paper mentions only one order regarding initiations, namely the

July 9th letter. But this letter does not say that Srila Prabhupada will be

the sole diksa-guru after his departure. And as a meticulous person he would

have clearly said that, especially because a posthumous ritvik system is

nowhere confirmed. That such a clear instruction was expected from him is

confirmed in the beginning of The Final Order.

 

The NCIP paper also mentions the phrase "my initiated disciple" in the

testament. But that certainly does not mean "there will be no grand

disciples".

 

 

> Please read it again and note carefully the references to how ISKCON

> should run, particularly with regards to initiation. These are the orders

> given by Srila Prabhupada which I am referring to. Just as we are meant to

> chant Hare Krishna after his departure, so we are meant to follow all his

> other general instructions unless he specifically said otherwise. This is

> just common sense.

 

No this is speculation. Speculation is when you conclude something from a

statement or an activity and your conclusion is not directly confirmed. For

example the Vedas say that animal dung is impure, and Srila Prabhupada said

that the cow is an animal. Now if you apply common sense and conclude that

cow dung is impure, then this is speculation.

 

You gave the example of chanting Hare Krishna. Please note that the

instruction to chant 16 rounds Hare Krishna is written in Srila Prabhupada's

books, whereas a posthumous ritvik system is not confirmed anywhere. Do you

see the difference?

 

You misunderstood the July 9th letter because you did not follow Srila

Prabhupada's instruction that you must always compare guru with sadhu and

sastra.

 

 

> When you have read these instructions you will then better appreciate the

> level of evidence you will need to produce in order to justify a change to

> the status quo established by Srila Prabhupada for the institution of

> ISKCON.

 

We can discuss this later. We have not yet finished your point b): "Srila

Prabhupada never ordered that he should ever stop being the diksa guru for

ISKCON."

 

And it seems that we have not even finished your point a) ("Srila Prabhupada

established himself as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966"). So I state

again: It is not proven that Srila Prabhupada established himself as the

sole diksa-guru for ISKCON.

 

There is no GBC resolution that Srila Prabhupada appeared to the GBC and

told them that he takes back the July 9th letter. But even if he did, this

would not mean that from then on Srila Prabhupada is no longer the sole

diksa-guru because the July 9th letter does not say that Srila Prabhupada

will be the sole diksa-guru after his departure.

 

But if Srila Prabhupada orders someone to be diksa-guru, then obviously he

is no longer the sole diksa-guru. So I rephrase my question: Did Srila

Prabhupada until today order any disciple to be diksa-guru? Please answer

with "yes", "no", or "we don't know".

 

 

> Your star piece of evidence cannot refer to diksa for reasons I have

> given.

 

Your 'reasons' are based on mind reading, offensive speculation and ignoring

Srila Prabhupada's statement. Sorry I cannot take that seriously.

 

 

> P.S. As I explained in this context the word 'established' means 'set up'.

 

It is not proven either that Srila Prabhupada set himself up as the sole

diksa-guru for ISKCON. Should I explain it again?

 

 

ys Ramakanta dasa