What is ISKCON? - Incompatibility with ISKCON

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Besides points below, from previoust post, there is also a certain question

coming to my mind, more and more often. I hope I can find some answer to it:

"What is ISKCON?"

 

I know that ISKCON is officially identified with Srila Prabhupada. But as

more and more devotees disagree with more and more things in ISKCON, it is

becoming obvious, that ISKCON is doing more and more things, that are not

clearly connected to Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

 

My question is also, if there are any devotees at all in ISKCON, who 100%

accept everything that is modern ISKCON standing for. I haven't meet any

personally till now. My experience is, that all ISKCON devotees to some

degree disagree with modern ISKCON. Therefore I'm asking myself, what is

actually ISKCON? If even ISKCON devotees cannot accept modern ISKCON, how

are we expecting, that it is for everybody? If it is for all, then at least

ISKCONs own members should be enthusiastic about it, isn't it?

 

And if ISKCON means Srila Prabhupada's instructions, what is then this

thing, that I call modern-ISKCON. Because so many things, that are done,

cannot be connected to Srila Prabhupada, or are even against Srila

Prabhupada's teachings. Too many times I can observe the principle "We used

to think, but now we know!". But this is a karmi-scientist principle. If we

used to think, but now we know, probably in few years we will say the same,

that we use do think, and now we know. So why bother with things, that are

changing?

 

Srila Prabhupada gave us timeless teachings for the next 10.000 years. But

modern ISKCON is proposing, usually in connection to social issues, that if

Srila Prabhupada was here today, he would speak differently. And numerous

methods are invented on basis of this premise, in order to bring KC closer

to people. But at the same time those same methods drive away even ISKCONs

own devotees. How can those inventions be expected to inspire people, if

they drive away even devotees?

 

So, what is ISKCON? What we do, or what we should be doing?

 

your servant Giri-nayaka das

 

 

>

> I'm wondering about a certain concept, since there seems to be a wast

> number of devotees, who's understanding of Srila Prabhupada is more or

> less incompatible with current understanding and presentation of modern

> ISKCON.

>

> Is it possible, that ones understanding is incompatible with ISKCON's

> presentation, but still based on Srila Prabhupada? Meaning, that one can

> be serving Srila Prabhupada in a proper way, but do it independently of

> modern ISKCON. What do you think about it?

>

> Also I seem to differentiate between old ISKCON, as started by Srila

> Prabhupada, and modern ISKCON, as deducted from Srila Prabhupada's

> teachings. Personally I use this method to help myself putting

> controversal things together. Is this a proper thing to do? How do you or

> others act, when one thing is spoken by Srila Prabhupada, but now another

> thing is being promoted as proper understanding?

>

> your servant Giri-nayaka das

[Guest guest]

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I would suggest that you put this questions before your spiritual master

first and solve this issues with him rather than seeking answer elsewhere.

Let me explain why. There is a simple reason and also a big advantage in

asking your guru about this; he knows you personally very well and will

answer you much better according to your needs and situation. We usually

don't ask such questions just because we are bored or something but because

we came to the edge from where we don't see clearly what is going on. This

the main reason why any of us needs a bonafide guru. Just a humble proposal.

 

Your humble servant,

 

Tat Purusha das

Servant of the servant

of Lord Sri Krishna

 

tel: 386 (0) 41 692274

tel: 386 (0) 1 7889889

 

www.tat-purusha.com

 

 

 

 

> Hare Krsna.

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> Besides points below, from previoust post, there is also a certain

> question

> coming to my mind, more and more often. I hope I can find some answer to

> it:

> "What is ISKCON?"

>

> I know that ISKCON is officially identified with Srila Prabhupada. But as

> more and more devotees disagree with more and more things in ISKCON, it is

> becoming obvious, that ISKCON is doing more and more things, that are not

> clearly connected to Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

>

> My question is also, if there are any devotees at all in ISKCON, who 100%

> accept everything that is modern ISKCON standing for. I haven't meet any

> personally till now. My experience is, that all ISKCON devotees to some

> degree disagree with modern ISKCON. Therefore I'm asking myself, what is

> actually ISKCON? If even ISKCON devotees cannot accept modern ISKCON, how

> are we expecting, that it is for everybody? If it is for all, then at

> least

> ISKCONs own members should be enthusiastic about it, isn't it?

>

> And if ISKCON means Srila Prabhupada's instructions, what is then this

> thing, that I call modern-ISKCON. Because so many things, that are done,

> cannot be connected to Srila Prabhupada, or are even against Srila

> Prabhupada's teachings. Too many times I can observe the principle "We

> used

> to think, but now we know!". But this is a karmi-scientist principle. If

> we

> used to think, but now we know, probably in few years we will say the

> same,

> that we use do think, and now we know. So why bother with things, that are

> changing?

>

> Srila Prabhupada gave us timeless teachings for the next 10.000 years. But

> modern ISKCON is proposing, usually in connection to social issues, that

> if

> Srila Prabhupada was here today, he would speak differently. And numerous

> methods are invented on basis of this premise, in order to bring KC closer

> to people. But at the same time those same methods drive away even ISKCONs

> own devotees. How can those inventions be expected to inspire people, if

> they drive away even devotees?

>

> So, what is ISKCON? What we do, or what we should be doing?

>

> your servant Giri-nayaka das

>

>

>>

>> I'm wondering about a certain concept, since there seems to be a wast

>> number of devotees, who's understanding of Srila Prabhupada is more or

>> less incompatible with current understanding and presentation of modern

>> ISKCON.

>>

>> Is it possible, that ones understanding is incompatible with ISKCON's

>> presentation, but still based on Srila Prabhupada? Meaning, that one can

>> be serving Srila Prabhupada in a proper way, but do it independently of

>> modern ISKCON. What do you think about it?

>>

>> Also I seem to differentiate between old ISKCON, as started by Srila

>> Prabhupada, and modern ISKCON, as deducted from Srila Prabhupada's

>> teachings. Personally I use this method to help myself putting

>> controversal things together. Is this a proper thing to do? How do you or

>> others act, when one thing is spoken by Srila Prabhupada, but now another

>> thing is being promoted as proper understanding?

>>

>> your servant Giri-nayaka das

>

> -----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email to:

> Understanding.Srila.Prabhupada's.Teachings-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

>

[Guest guest]

"We usually don't ask such questions just because we are bored or

something but because we came to the edge from where we don't see clearly

what is going on. This the main reason why any of us needs a bonafide

guru. Just a humble proposal."

 

Most certainly it is a good idea. I have a suspicion that he has asked

this one already.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:15 +0100, Giri-nayaka (das) BVS (Ljubljana - SLO) <

Giri-nayaka.BVS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

>

> Besides points below, from previoust post, there is also a certain

> question

> coming to my mind, more and more often. I hope I can find some answer to

> it:

> "What is ISKCON?"

>

> I know that ISKCON is officially identified with Srila Prabhupada. But as

> more and more devotees disagree with more and more things in ISKCON, it is

> becoming obvious, that ISKCON is doing more and more things, that are not

> clearly connected to Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

>

> My question is also, if there are any devotees at all in ISKCON, who 100%

> accept everything that is modern ISKCON standing for. I haven't meet any

> personally till now. My experience is, that all ISKCON devotees to some

> degree disagree with modern ISKCON. Therefore I'm asking myself, what is

> actually ISKCON? If even ISKCON devotees cannot accept modern ISKCON, how

> are we expecting, that it is for everybody? If it is for all, then at

> least

> ISKCONs own members should be enthusiastic about it, isn't it?

 

 

Frankly, I think this "modern ISKCON," as you intend it, it an imaginary

construct, whose purpose is to create contention where it's not necessary.

Those with weaker faith seem to need some enemy to whip up enthusiasm. It's

a shame that some of us have made other devotees that enemy. And I think

it's terribly naive to think that things will never change. ISKCON's history

is one of constant change, particularly in Srila Prabhupada's presence. He

made so many adjustments over the years he was with us, in response to

changing conditions. The GBC itself was rather a new thing, instituted after

I joined. Universal attendance at mangal arati at 4:30 didn't start until

after I joined. Just before I joined, Srila Prabhupada started requiring

candidates for first initiation to chant 16 rounds and follow the regulative

principles for six months before asking. And so many things changed

afterward. Is it reasonable to expect that things won't have changed in the

ensuing 28 years, even as social conditions change so drastically? If you

want to know what ISKCON is, look at the the purposes he gave for

incorporating it in 1966, which are nearly identical to those he gave when

forming the League of Devotees in the '50s:

(a) To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and

to educate all peoples in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check

the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the

world.

(b) To propagate a consciousness of Krishna as it is revealed in the

Bhagawat Gita and Srimad Bhagawatam.

© To bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer

to Krishna, the prime entity, and thus to develop the idea, within the

members, and humanity, at largo, that each soul is part and parcel of the

quality of Godhead (Krishna).

(d), To teach and encourage the Samkirtan movement congregational chanting

of the holy name of God as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu.

(e) To erect for the members, and for society at large, a holy place of

transcendental pastimes, dedicated to the personality of Krishna.

(f) To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a

simpler and more natural way of life.

(g) With a view towards achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish

and distribute periodicals, magazines, books and other writings.

 

As far as I can understand, those are the principles. I understand that we

need vigorous discussion as to what details may need adjusting and how to do

so, but the discussion needs to be civil and open, neither of which is the

case when we start demonizing, however subtly, those devotees whose

perspective differs from our own by a few degrees.

 

And if ISKCON means Srila Prabhupada's instructions, what is then this

> thing, that I call modern-ISKCON. Because so many things, that are done,

> cannot be connected to Srila Prabhupada, or are even against Srila

> Prabhupada's teachings. Too many times I can observe the principle "We

> used

> to think, but now we know!". But this is a karmi-scientist principle.

 

 

Actually, as nonsense as they are, most of those "karmi-scientists" are much

more open about the tentative, conditional nature of their knowledge than

many of us are willing to acknowledge. The real problem Srila Prabhupada has

with them is that so many of them (though certainly not all) believe that

the only things worth knowing are those accessible to our senses and minds.

I I'd like to see you give some concrete examples of devotees claiming, "We

used to think, but now we know!" Your saying this is true doesn't

necessarily make it so.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave us timeless teachings for the next 10.000 years. But

> modern ISKCON is proposing, usually in connection to social issues, that

> if

> Srila Prabhupada was here today, he would speak differently. And numerous

> methods are invented on basis of this premise, in order to bring KC closer

> to people. But at the same time those same methods drive away even ISKCONs

> own devotees. How can those inventions be expected to inspire people, if

> they drive away even devotees?

 

 

People have been driving devotees away from ISKCON for a very long

time--perhaps since before you were born. The key to changing that is

simple, but apparently quite difficult for us to follow. In his purport to

the Bhagavatam's second verse, Srila Prabhupada writes, "the transcendental

devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy, but are

well-wishers to everyone, and they strive to establish a competitionless

society with God in the center." How much time have you spent in your life

contemplating the revolutionary implications of such an assertion. When I

read that in 1969, it changed the direction of my life. And it remains my

Pole Star, guiding me, I hope, toward the summum bonum of Krishna prema.

 

So, what is ISKCON? What we do, or what we should be doing?

 

 

See (a) though (g) above.

 

Yours in service,

Babhru das