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Letter PAMHO:10815873 (131 lines)

Internet: "KrishnaKirti Das" <krishnakirti >

13-Dec-05 15:37 (08:37 -0700)

Trivikrama Swami [26536]

Reference: Text PAMHO:10815489 by Trivikrama Swami

Re: [Editors] Just came in

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[Maharaja, could you please forward these comments to the relevant people?

ys KKdas (HDG)]

 

About psychology and its compatibility with Krishna consciousness, I have

two words: Dhira Govinda. Dhira Govinda Prabhu, a former disciple of

Danavir Gosvami, is a fine case of a devotee who is a good and ethical

psychologist but who does not have a good grasp of Vaishnava theology.

(e.g.

His prominent link thesis.) This does not mean that other devotees who are

trained psychologists do not have a good grasp of Vaishnava theology, but it

means that statements about the compatibility of psychology with Krishna

consciousness cannot be assumed without a strong case being made for it.

 

In the piece below, the devotee who made the comments makes declarative

statements as to how he thinks psychology is compatible with Krishna

consciousness without making a strong case for it. Even things the

commentator believes psychology is good for helping--serious depression,

anxiety attacks, and helping understanding and raising children--should not

be assumed to be helpful, nor should they be accepted merely on account of

positive annecdotal evidence. Appearances, after all, can be misleading.

 

In the last 50 years society has become more degraded, not less, despite the

guidance of psychology and other humanistic sciences. We should therefore,

as a matter of principle, regard with suspicion any claim that something not

recommended by the parampara can help devotees, unless a strong case can be

made for it.

 

 

 

 

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:35 -0500, Trivikrama Swami <

Trivikrama.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

>

> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------

>

> Text PAMHO:10813549 (69 lines) [W1]

> Bhima (das) ACBSP (BBT India, Juhu, Mumbai - IN)

> 13-Dec-05 07:43 (02:43 -0500)

> Prabhupada Disciples [6680]

> Reference: Text PAMHO:10799870 by Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP

> Worth a read

> ---------------------------

> I had sent the article about the nuns and therapy to Visnu Gada Prabhu who

> is a clinical psychologist. His reply I feel is worth a read.

>

> ys

> Bhima das

>

>

> > Bhima prabhu,

> > Thanks for asking about posting the response. I revised a couple of

> > points to make it better for others to read if they want. What

> conference

> > is the discussion going on?

> > Thank you for sending the article. I read it with interest.

> > I think the author made some good points. I also think some things were

> > exaggerated.

> > Good points.

> > I agree that problems do arise when values coming from a psychological

> > viewpoint are used to supplant those from a spiritual or religious

> > viewpoint. Often psychological values are not clearly stated by the

> > practitioner and can be

> > subtle. Psychotherapists might say and believe they are value-free but

> > they are usually not.

> > Differing psychological theories have different values.

> > My view is that psychology can be helpful if it's used for certain

> > specific purposes; e.g., for serious depression, anxiety attacks,

> helping

> > with understanding and raising children. I believe it is misleading for

> > people to think

> > that psychology can solve most or all problems. It has a limited

> > application. We should know what that is.

> > In the example, "Normals" were involved with the idea of getting "

> > sensitivity" training. In such a situation, where the actual purpose of

> > the intervention is relatively vague, I believe the client can be

> > particularly subject to

> > the values, purposes, and agenda of the therapist. This is true whether

> > the therapist is a devotee or non-devotee. I have even heard

> > psychological talks given during Bhagavad Gita classes for Sunday feast

> > lectures. I do not agree with this.

> > Some people think that health regimens and medicinal approaches will

> cure

> > all problems, others think chiropractic, and so on. Our take is that the

> > miseries of life can't be fully removed except by Krishna Consciousness.

> > It is important to understand the strengths and limitations of

> psychology

> > and use it accordingly.

> > Points I question:

> > According to my readings, the nuns were leaving in numbers years before

> > this incident. It seems to me that the author tries to blame all the

> > problems of the Catholic Church on the humanistic psychological

> influence.

> > I suspect there

> > were a lot of other things going on at the same time that weren't being

> > dealt with. It may be easier to accuse humanistic psychology than to

> take

> > a hard

> > look at some of those things. For example, I doubt that sister Mary

> > Benjamin was the first nun to be seduced by an elder nun in the order,

> > nor the last. Similar things were probably going on for men in monastic

> > orders. And then there were the kids being sexually abused. Talking

> about

> > some of the difficulties probably brought some of this to light. I

> don't

> > believe keeping such things

> > secret constitutes a solution either.

> > Improved confidential understanding among people with spiritual goals

> can

> > be uplifting. In the six exchanges of love between devotees. Rupa

> Gosvami

> > said " guhyam akhyati pricchati" .

> > The author argues that humanistic psychology, as practiced by Carl

> Rogers

> > and himself, is antithetical in that it opposes some of the values of

> the

> > Catholic Church. Does that mean that all people who have psychological

> > training

> >

> > follow that method? I don't think so. Should a person be careful about

> > those values? Yes. Does it mean we shouldn't consider the views of

> someone

> > with psychological training? We read the article.

> > Hare Krishna,

> > Vishnugada dasa

> (Text PAMHO:10813549) -----

>

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(Text PAMHO:10815873) -----

 

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