beatting women

[Guest guest]

Dear Prema Padmini Mataji.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

> > > But can it be

> > > possible, that there is some beating, that is not only present even

> > > in highly cultured circles, but is even considered beneficial and

> > > protective? And comes out of duty to protect nad educate, and is

> > > free of after-frustration-anger and envy? Because, if all beating is

> > > horrible, and is to be condemned and is a sign of low class

> > > personality deeply in lower modes of nature, why is it described

> > > even in cultural shastric descriptions, and thus relished by great

> > > sages and vaisnavas.

 

The above statement was actually from me, and needs not be pointed at Bhakta

Jan Prabhu.

>

> Can you kindly tell us where in shastra has it been described about the

> beating of women being relished by sages? I can only think of Sage

> Jamadagni who asked his son Parasurama to kill his mother as he was aware

> of her moment's unchaste thoughts after seeing a handsome devata. But that

> instance just reveals that sages too have their weak moments, when they

> act rashly.

 

What I had in mind, was more connected to educational beating of children,

in order to guide them in their life. In this thread, the only mention of

beating women, connected to vaisnavism, was Srila Prabhupada's quoting his

mother, regarding beating his sister. But it was not intended as a sastric

evidence, that one should beat his wife. It was more intended to show, that

such things were present even in the highest cultured circles. Actually, in

the beginnig it was just curious to me, how the words were so humorously put

together by Srila Prabhupada and/or his mother, and with what relaxed, easy

mood this idea of beating women was presented, in contrast to terribly

horrified mood, that is maintained in this thread towards this subject

matter.

 

>

> Violence is a sign of weakness or impatience, an easy option to give vent

> to our emotions and justify it as doing good to the victim. Srila

> Prabhupada also advised us to only show the stick to children but never

> use it. Love is a greater power than a show of physical strength. The

> power of love and forgiveness shames the wrong doer much more than

> beating, which may cause a lot of mental disturbance, besides physical,

> to the person. But that patience and loving explanations can make anyone

> be receptive to good counsel. If we look at them as spirit souls, we will

> have faith in their inherent goodness. But if we look at only their

> external selves and behavior, we will become impatient and intolerant and

> have no faith in their capacity to think and change.So it requires greater

> self controll and self realization to resort to the method of love.If some

> one resorts to the easy passionate method of beating, then he is obviously

> not so evolved.As Vaishnavas I think we certainly must try to be more

> evolved in our behavior.

 

Violence may be sign of weakness, but, it seems there is more to it. We have

also presented and discussed some appearances of beating in Krsna and

Caitanya lila. I heard, that real beating never happened, which doesn't

mean, that other kids of that time were not beaten ocasionaly. But just

recently, somebody wrote to me privately, that Krsna and Chaitanya were

actually beaten several times. Can somebody else confitm this?

 

Otherwise thank you for your optimistic view. I may disagree in details, but

this is only because my experiences, which limit and form me in certain way.

We are different people, and we cannot expect to agree on everything, is it?

 

>

> You have to be liberated like Krishna to cause violence with love! Any

> violence that we do normally is tinged with the lower modes due to our

> material attachment.

 

Yes, violence with love is out of reach in this world. Actualy, in this

world, there is no love. Love is for Krsna. And violence brings reactions.

But so does also so many other things, and in this world, non-violence is

usually just another kind of violence. Sometimes we need to do, what is

practical, and then just accept responsibility for it.

 

>

> Maybe as a boy, it did not cause you much pain and maybe you were not

> mindful of an occasional beating. But is it the same with beating women

> who have very delicate bodies? Can you imagine how terriorized they must

> feel being overpowered by a strong male who has no idea of how delicate

> they are and may cause a lot of physical and mental harm? And where do you

> draw the line? Can you see how dangerous this permission can be? People

> can start abusing Vaishnavis all in the name of "lovingly correcting

> them".

 

I think you are overreacting. Probably your picture of beating is quite

different than mine. Besides, women can beat quite well too. We have heard

of men being beaten by woman. It is not all so delicate. Where do you

draw the line? In ISKCON, wherever you like. There is no official rule. From

Srila Prabhupada it seems, that there may be some place for religious

violence in society. But in front of Yamaraja, one better have a real good

reason for beating anybody, if he wants to pass by freely. Usually beating

probably brings reactions, as does so many other things in this world.

 

>

> Vaishnavis are not animals. they are amenable to proper reasoning, love

> and gentle behavior. If the husband wants he can take the help of another

> Vaishnava or close relative to sort out some problems, but resorting to

> violence is certainly a very weak and timid option...

 

You are right. Violence is not a good option, ever. It is always to be

avoided. And when nothing else works, violence is still not necessary. In

marriage, one can still separate from his partner, or in modern ISKCON, even

divorce and thus attain his peace. And regarding children, if nothing works,

violence is still not necessary. One can still ignore them, or avoid their

company, or withdraw himself, or send them to Gurukula or something. Of

course, one may argue, that this may be even a greater violence. But thats

already another story.

 

your servant Giri-nayaka das