What is ISKCON? - Incompatibility with ISKCON

[Guest guest]

>

> > There is no such thing as a new modern ISKCON. If the new and modern

> > Iskcon does not have much to do with Srila Prabhupada's original Iskcon,

> > then the new and modern Iskcon is not Iskcon at all, it is something

> > else. Therefore I say, you have to find the core of devotees in Iskcon,

> > who are true to Srila Prabhupada's version, and then cling on to them.

>

> This is a strong statement, and I must admit like it. At least it shows

> some character. But... Some time ago I charrised same opinion, that if

> something cannot be connected to Srila Prabhupada's teachings, then it is

> not ISKCON. Actually, those things were called "bridge" before. Because

> they were not ISKCON, but were also not karmi, since they were performed

> by ISKCON devotees. So they were called "bridge methods". But now

> everybody moved to that "bridge", and are having fun fishing for new

> ideas. Bridge has become new ISKCON. We thought it was maya, but now we

> know it is ok:

 

I am not sure I understand what you mean by bridge. There is deviation and

then there bridge. What's wrong with Bridge literature, for instance?

Anyway, if you are saying that there are trends and forces in Iskcon trying

to lead us away from the pure path of Prabhupada's teachings, I agree. I

think so too. But so what? That's only to be expected. I see it as a good

thing, because it makes devotees strong when they have to fight against it.

Personally I think it's the best thing that could ever have happened to me,

to be Prabhpada's soldier.

 

> The problem is actually, that devotees take bridge to be a part of ISKCON.

> Bridge is not directly connectable to Srila Prabhupada, but is becoming

> major part of ISKCON. Leaders failed to define that bridge, so it is being

> assimilated as the real thing. And because limits are not defined, it

> brings just confusion.

 

Of course it brings confusion. What did you expect? But are you going to be

type of person who will be confused, or will you try to confuse, or will you

try to rectify things to the best of your ability. If you are confused,

that's why I say you have to connect with that core of devotees in Iskcon

who are not confused, and then stick with them. If you can't recognize them,

then you really have to get out more.

 

> > If you openly oppose Srila Prabhupada's instructions, then you are of

> > course not Iskcon.

>

> "Bridge" comes into play here. Is it ISKCON or not? How to view this?

 

Actually, who cares? When we speak about bridge literature in the BBT, I

think it is a good thing. Prabhupada asked his disciples to write down their

realizations. Also there is a huge market for yoga, karma and reincarnation,

which we are the only ones who really know, so we should definitely begin to

target that audience.

 

Otherwise I don't know what you mean by bridge. If you are talking life

reformation courses and modern psychology I avoid it like the plague. I

consider it totally and utterly useless. I never saw it help anyone to

become better devotees, rather the contrary. It's actually for less

intelligent people - people who don't have the intelligence to extract the

most advanced, sophisticated forms of life reformation and psychological

understanding on the planet, right there in the Bhagavad Gita.

 

> Selective association seems like solution. To simply avoid those, who are

> not inspiring, or considered as speculators. But I have some doubt about

> your proposed solution. Is it ok to judge devotees like this, and separate

> them in "good" anfd "bad". Shouldn't it be, that ISKCON in whole is good?

> If ISKCON is defined by Srila Prabhupada, then how can be there any

> separation within ISKCON? If one is not in line with Srila Prabhupada, he

> is out. Isn't it? So, you are proposing, that each devotee personally

> judges who is "in" and who is "out" of ISKCON. This seems rather anarchic.

> Usually system is, that government decides, who is bonafide and who is

> not. Usually there are all kinds of laws, and if one breaks them, he is

> sanctioned by some punishment. I beleive vedic culture was very strict

> like this too. Either you were in, or out, there was no inbetween. And

> everybody was affraid of being excommunicated. But ISKCON is different,

> there is no fear of excommunication, and everybody is accepted, so

> everybody brings his own ideas in, and because there are no laws, or

> nobody to uphold the laws, then we get confusion.

 

That's how it is. But as I said, during all this confusion, a core of

devotees remain, who are not confused, and whom we can seek shelter from.

Maybe it is easy for me to say, I live in Mayapur, but still, what else can

we do? We have to stick with Prabhupada's real followers.

 

> Now you propose, that each individual becomes judge and jury, and separate

> by himself. But it is a useless proposition, because it will only increase

> criticism and separatism, and thus even more reduce trust and cooperation.

 

Bhaktivinode Thakur has told the devotees, not to judge, or condemn, but to

certify each others' level of devotion, so that we can know who is on the

low, middle or high platform of devotion, and thus relate to them

accordingly. If you don't ascertain other devotees' platform of advancement,

how will you know how to relate to them following the proper etiquette?

 

> If one is bonafide or not, must be maintained from above, by government,

> or in case of ISKCON, by GBC. There should be some strict system of

> "punishment and reward", like in any organized group of humanity. Family

> works on this principle, business companies work like this, and countries

> with government work on this principle, and vedic culture worked on this

> principle of "punishment and reward". ISKCON refuses to operate on this

> basic, for reasons which are probably beyond this discussion. Also motives

> may not be so important, the point is, that there is no result regarding

> protection of ISKCON members. We are left on our own. ISKCON has no

> government, who would protect its citizens. And personal separatism

> between "good" and "bad" is no solution. It may only work for certain

> individuals, who are not so interested in trust and cooperation, but it

> will not help ISKCON to regain trust and support of its congregation.

 

You can point out problems, but you'll never come to an end of it. In fact,

Kali-yuga is an ocean of faults. It never stops. So what are you going to do

about it?

 

> This is ok. But what about all those, who are separated and judged by

> "better avoid personally"? Are they ISKCON too? Because when there can be

> some doubt, that ones ideas are off, then he can be avoided as

> "non-inspirational". But does this make him not being member of ISKCON. I

> don't think so. ISKCON has certainly become wider, than what was defined

> by Srila Prabhupada. So there needs to be some system of government, with

> strict laws, which will provide "punishment and reward", in order to

> protect members of ISKCON society against speculations. Only on this level

> ISKCON becomes a culture. Without laws and rules and strict governmnt,

> wider ISKCON is just on the level of local bowling club, and will soon

> become sunday religion, not taken seriously even by its own so-called

> members.

 

I know what you say. I would also love a GBC with executive power. But so

far we have only Brahmins. We have no Kshatriyas, and we can't have our own

law in Iskcon. We have to follow the law of the land. Besides, what's the

GBC going to do? Tell everyone act up and behave nicely, and pass a law

about it? I don't think it works that way. Each an every single devotee has

to take responsibility for his own life. Iskcon is actually to young a

movement to have developed a social structure which will afford everyone

security. That usually takes two or three generations to develop. I am sure

it will come in Iskcon, but right now you cannot expect Iskcon to take care

of your material life. You can expect Iskcon to take care of you

spiritually, and it does.

 

> If there is no modern ISKCON, distanced from Srila Prabhupada, then there

> are parts of ISKCON, which are better to be avoided. And that is wrong,

> since such parts make whole ISKCON impure. Therefore there is a need of

> strong government, with strict law system, providing immediate "punishment

> and reward", and thus maintaining purity.

 

Sure there is a need. But what are YOU going to do about it, while you wait

for the leaders to come and establish a strong government?

 

ys, jdd