Guest guest Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 The Gita teaching in varsity sparks row Indo-Asian News Service Ahmedabad, December 23, 2005 A Gujarat university's decision to teach the Hindu religious book Bhagavad Gita has kicked off a controversy.The MS University at Vadodara has decided to allow discounted sale of the book as well as speeches by the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKON) at its campus. ISKON had approached Ranjitsinh Gaikwad of the royal family here for permission to propagate Gita lessons on the campus as part of month-long Gita Jayanti celebration. The Gita lays down the code of conduct for Hindus in the form of divine discourse given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in the epic battle of the Mahabharata. "We want to make students aware of the teachings of Gita. We have the permission but let us see when we can start distributing the holy book," Nityanand Ram of ISKON said. As soon as the university registrar dashed off letters to the deans of various faculties asking them to help ISKON in preaching Gita lessons, a section of the students and lecturers came out in opposition. Kirit Bhatt of the Public Union for Civil Liberty (PUCL) said: "Once you allow a religious sect in the campus, you cannot deny the same right to other religions. Religion is propagated in society, but this must be kept out of the campus." But Vice Chancellor Manoj Soni defended the move: "Gita is not a religious book at all. It is a book that teaches. It is about spirituality." Supporting him, commerce lecturer Pragnesh Shah said: "Lessons from the Gita are read in some American universities too. Education is incomplete without the Gita." But Tapan Dasgupta, a student leader, asked: "How can you allow a religious group to carry out such an activity inside the campus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Their insistence that practitioners of a religion, because they practice religion, should not be allowed to teach religion is like saying that a practicing physician should not be allowed to teach medicine, because he practices medicine, or that a musician should not be allowed to teach music because he practices music. On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:06 -0500, Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - IN)< Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > > The Gita teaching in varsity sparks row > > Indo-Asian News Service > Ahmedabad, December 23, 2005 > > A Gujarat university's decision to teach the Hindu religious book Bhagavad > Gita has kicked off a controversy.The MS University at Vadodara has > decided > to allow discounted sale of the book as well as speeches by the > International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKON) at its campus. > ISKON had approached Ranjitsinh Gaikwad of the royal family here for > permission to propagate Gita lessons on the campus as part of month-long > Gita Jayanti celebration. > > The Gita lays down the code of conduct for Hindus in the form of divine > discourse given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in the epic battle of the > Mahabharata. > > "We want to make students aware of the teachings of Gita. We have the > permission but let us see when we can start distributing the holy book," > Nityanand Ram of ISKON said. > > As soon as the university registrar dashed off letters to the deans of > various faculties asking them to help ISKON in preaching Gita lessons, a > section of the students and lecturers came out in opposition. > Kirit Bhatt of the Public Union for Civil Liberty (PUCL) said: "Once you > allow a religious sect in the campus, you cannot deny the same right to > other religions. Religion is propagated in society, but this must be kept > out of the campus." > > But Vice Chancellor Manoj Soni defended the move: "Gita is not a religious > book at all. It is a book that teaches. It is about spirituality." > Supporting him, commerce lecturer Pragnesh Shah said: "Lessons from the > Gita > are read in some American universities too. Education is incomplete > without > the Gita." > > But Tapan Dasgupta, a student leader, asked: "How can you allow a > religious > group to carry out such an activity inside the campus > > ----------------------- > To from this mailing list, send an email to: > ISKCON.India-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 The point is, it will distract the students from their focus and lead to formation of Hindu, Muslim and Christian associations in Universities. It was a very bad experience for Vast number of drop outs from schools and colleges who joined ISKCON. They were regretting for their lost carrier at a latter point of time. In my humble opinion we should not disturb the students in their campus. Let them stand on their own legs to think of spirituality, because spirituality depends on the financial sustainability of individuals. YS solai - "KrishnaKirti Das" <krishnakirti > "Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - IN)" <Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Cc: "India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "ISKCON India (news & discussion)" <ISKCON.India (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (BBT)" <Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Vijaya (das) HDG (USA)" <Vijaya.HDG (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:55 AM Re: Hindustan Times Article > Their insistence that practitioners of a religion, because they practice > religion, should not be allowed to teach religion is like saying that a > practicing physician should not be allowed to teach medicine, because he > practices medicine, or that a musician should not be allowed to teach > music > because he practices music. > > On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:06 -0500, Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - > IN)< > Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: >> >> The Gita teaching in varsity sparks row >> >> Indo-Asian News Service >> Ahmedabad, December 23, 2005 >> >> A Gujarat university's decision to teach the Hindu religious book >> Bhagavad >> Gita has kicked off a controversy.The MS University at Vadodara has >> decided >> to allow discounted sale of the book as well as speeches by the >> International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKON) at its campus. >> ISKON had approached Ranjitsinh Gaikwad of the royal family here for >> permission to propagate Gita lessons on the campus as part of month-long >> Gita Jayanti celebration. >> >> The Gita lays down the code of conduct for Hindus in the form of divine >> discourse given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in the epic battle of the >> Mahabharata. >> >> "We want to make students aware of the teachings of Gita. We have the >> permission but let us see when we can start distributing the holy book," >> Nityanand Ram of ISKON said. >> >> As soon as the university registrar dashed off letters to the deans of >> various faculties asking them to help ISKON in preaching Gita lessons, a >> section of the students and lecturers came out in opposition. >> Kirit Bhatt of the Public Union for Civil Liberty (PUCL) said: "Once you >> allow a religious sect in the campus, you cannot deny the same right to >> other religions. Religion is propagated in society, but this must be kept >> out of the campus." >> >> But Vice Chancellor Manoj Soni defended the move: "Gita is not a >> religious >> book at all. It is a book that teaches. It is about spirituality." >> Supporting him, commerce lecturer Pragnesh Shah said: "Lessons from the >> Gita >> are read in some American universities too. Education is incomplete >> without >> the Gita." >> >> But Tapan Dasgupta, a student leader, asked: "How can you allow a >> religious >> group to carry out such an activity inside the campus >> >> ----------------------- >> To from this mailing list, send an email to: >> ISKCON.India-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 I'm not sure who "Solai" is: it would be nice if you identified yourself so we'd know who we're discussing with. However, if his advice were to be taken to heart, the Hare Krishna Movement would have to "revise" it's history. It's a history where the Founder-Acharya, Srila Prabhupada, preached extensively on College and University campuses in the USA - way back when. Similarly, many of his disciples continued such preaching and prasad distribution. The names of ISKCON College & University preachers from the late 1960's until now must constitute a long list! Such preaching also goes on in Universities and Colleges in Europe, South Africa and Austrialia, etc., etc., as I understand things. And of course here in India, ISKCON Pune has established their "BACE" program quite successfully. It would all have to be abandonded if we followed this advice - herein below. Is that desirable? I think not, and I think the vast majority of ISKCON preachers and devotees would concur. But it's not a popularity contest that should be the convincing point here. Rather, it's the understanding that modern materialistic education is not the "panacea" for humanity. Nor is preaching the message of Gita and sanatana dharma a "disturbance" to ones "career" [i used the spell check here in WinCOM to make sure I spelled it right! ]. But then maybe this humble opinion, which I think concurs with the mood and desires of Srila Prabhupada, is mistaken? > The point is, it will distract the students from their focus and lead to > formation of Hindu, Muslim and Christian associations in Universities. > It was a very bad experience for Vast number of drop outs from schools and > colleges who joined ISKCON. > They were regretting for their lost carrier at a latter point of time. In > my humble opinion we should not disturb the students in their campus. Let > them stand on their own legs to think of spirituality, because > spirituality depends on the financial sustainability of individuals. > YS > solai > - > "KrishnaKirti Das" <krishnakirti > > "Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - IN)" > <Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> > Cc: "India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; > "ISKCON India (news & discussion)" <ISKCON.India (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Tattvavit > (das) ACBSP (BBT)" <Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Vijaya (das) HDG (USA)" > <Vijaya.HDG (AT) pamho (DOT) net> > Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:55 AM > Re: Hindustan Times Article > > > > Their insistence that practitioners of a religion, because they practice > > religion, should not be allowed to teach religion is like saying that a > > practicing physician should not be allowed to teach medicine, because he > > practices medicine, or that a musician should not be allowed to teach > > music > > because he practices music. > > > > On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:06 -0500, Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - > > IN)< > > Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > >> > >> The Gita teaching in varsity sparks row > >> > >> Indo-Asian News Service > >> Ahmedabad, December 23, 2005 > >> > >> A Gujarat university's decision to teach the Hindu religious book > >> Bhagavad > >> Gita has kicked off a controversy.The MS University at Vadodara has > >> decided > >> to allow discounted sale of the book as well as speeches by the > >> International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKON) at its campus. > >> ISKON had approached Ranjitsinh Gaikwad of the royal family here for > >> permission to propagate Gita lessons on the campus as part of > >> month-long Gita Jayanti celebration. > >> > >> The Gita lays down the code of conduct for Hindus in the form of divine > >> discourse given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in the epic battle of the > >> Mahabharata. > >> > >> "We want to make students aware of the teachings of Gita. We have the > >> permission but let us see when we can start distributing the holy > >> book," Nityanand Ram of ISKON said. > >> > >> As soon as the university registrar dashed off letters to the deans of > >> various faculties asking them to help ISKON in preaching Gita lessons, > >> a section of the students and lecturers came out in opposition. > >> Kirit Bhatt of the Public Union for Civil Liberty (PUCL) said: "Once > >> you allow a religious sect in the campus, you cannot deny the same > >> right to other religions. Religion is propagated in society, but this > >> must be kept out of the campus." > >> > >> But Vice Chancellor Manoj Soni defended the move: "Gita is not a > >> religious > >> book at all. It is a book that teaches. It is about spirituality." > >> Supporting him, commerce lecturer Pragnesh Shah said: "Lessons from the > >> Gita > >> are read in some American universities too. Education is incomplete > >> without > >> the Gita." > >> > >> But Tapan Dasgupta, a student leader, asked: "How can you allow a > >> religious > >> group to carry out such an activity inside the campus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 > > > The point is, it will distract the students from their focus and lead to > > formation of Hindu, Muslim and Christian associations in Universities. > > It was a very bad experience for Vast number of drop outs from schools > > and colleges who joined ISKCON. > > They were regretting for their lost carrier at a latter point of time. > > In my humble opinion we should not disturb the students in their campus. > > Let them stand on their own legs to think of spirituality, because > > spirituality depends on the financial sustainability of individuals. > > YS > > solai typical materialist. thinks everything depends on economic development and not on Krsna. Your humble servant, Hari-sauri dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 You are correct prabhu, the world consists of 99.999% of the typical materialists you are talking about, and they would like to avoid hanging around temples for a living and will never wish to sustain on donations collected for the service of the Lord. Solai - "Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP" <Hari.Sauri.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> "Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)" <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - IN)" <Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "KrishnaKirti Das" <krishnakirti > Cc: "India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Prabhupada Disciples" <Prabhupada.Disciples (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:59 PM Re: Hindustan Times Article > > >> > The point is, it will distract the students from their focus and lead >> > to >> > formation of Hindu, Muslim and Christian associations in Universities. >> > It was a very bad experience for Vast number of drop outs from schools >> > and colleges who joined ISKCON. >> > They were regretting for their lost carrier at a latter point of time. >> > In my humble opinion we should not disturb the students in their >> > campus. >> > Let them stand on their own legs to think of spirituality, because >> > spirituality depends on the financial sustainability of individuals. >> > YS >> > solai > > typical materialist. thinks everything depends on economic > development and not on Krsna. > > Your humble servant, > Hari-sauri dasa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 I am a devotee for more than a decade and pamho id has allies with spiritual names. I wish to stress my point again. ISKCON should not interfere with the livelihoods of students. At this young age a student MAY decide based on the washed brain and latter MAY repent for it. Campus preaching will lead to immature and biased decision on the part of youngsters irrespective of whether it is a right or wrong move. How ISKCON can redress for the lost carriers or how will it compensate if a claim is made in a court of law? It is pathetic to note that Devotees who lost their carrier are looking for alternative survival techniques, like high tech. fund raising campaigns. solai - "Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)" <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> "Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - IN)" <Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "KrishnaKirti Das" <krishnakirti > Cc: "India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "ISKCON India (news & discussion)" <ISKCON.India (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Prabhupada Disciples" <Prabhupada.Disciples (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:30 PM Re: Hindustan Times Article > I'm not sure who "Solai" is: it would be nice if you identified yourself > so > we'd know who we're discussing with. > > However, if his advice were to be taken to heart, the Hare Krishna > Movement > would have to "revise" it's history. It's a history where the > Founder-Acharya, Srila Prabhupada, preached extensively on College and > University campuses in the USA - way back when. > > Similarly, many of his disciples continued such preaching and prasad > distribution. The names of ISKCON College & University preachers from the > late 1960's until now must constitute a long list! > > Such preaching also goes on in Universities and Colleges in Europe, South > Africa and Austrialia, etc., etc., as I understand things. And of course > here in India, ISKCON Pune has established their "BACE" program quite > successfully. > > It would all have to be abandonded if we followed this advice - herein > below. Is that desirable? I think not, and I think the vast majority of > ISKCON preachers and devotees would concur. But it's not a popularity > contest that should be the convincing point here. Rather, it's the > understanding that modern materialistic education is not the "panacea" for > humanity. Nor is preaching the message of Gita and sanatana dharma a > "disturbance" to ones "career" [i used the spell check here in WinCOM to > make sure I spelled it right! ]. But then maybe this humble opinion, > which I think concurs with the mood and desires of Srila Prabhupada, is > mistaken? > >> The point is, it will distract the students from their focus and lead to >> formation of Hindu, Muslim and Christian associations in Universities. >> It was a very bad experience for Vast number of drop outs from schools >> and >> colleges who joined ISKCON. >> They were regretting for their lost carrier at a latter point of time. In >> my humble opinion we should not disturb the students in their campus. Let >> them stand on their own legs to think of spirituality, because >> spirituality depends on the financial sustainability of individuals. >> YS >> solai >> - >> "KrishnaKirti Das" <krishnakirti > >> "Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, Mumbai - IN)" >> <Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> >> Cc: "India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; >> "ISKCON India (news & discussion)" <ISKCON.India (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Tattvavit >> (das) ACBSP (BBT)" <Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>; "Vijaya (das) HDG (USA)" >> <Vijaya.HDG (AT) pamho (DOT) net> >> Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:55 AM >> Re: Hindustan Times Article >> >> >> > Their insistence that practitioners of a religion, because they >> > practice >> > religion, should not be allowed to teach religion is like saying that a >> > practicing physician should not be allowed to teach medicine, because >> > he >> > practices medicine, or that a musician should not be allowed to teach >> > music >> > because he practices music. >> > >> > On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:06 -0500, Ananda Tirtha (das) JPS (Juhu, >> > Mumbai - >> > IN)< >> > Ananda.Tirtha.JPS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: >> >> >> >> The Gita teaching in varsity sparks row >> >> >> >> Indo-Asian News Service >> >> Ahmedabad, December 23, 2005 >> >> >> >> A Gujarat university's decision to teach the Hindu religious book >> >> Bhagavad >> >> Gita has kicked off a controversy.The MS University at Vadodara has >> >> decided >> >> to allow discounted sale of the book as well as speeches by the >> >> International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKON) at its campus. >> >> ISKON had approached Ranjitsinh Gaikwad of the royal family here for >> >> permission to propagate Gita lessons on the campus as part of >> >> month-long Gita Jayanti celebration. >> >> >> >> The Gita lays down the code of conduct for Hindus in the form of >> >> divine >> >> discourse given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in the epic battle of the >> >> Mahabharata. >> >> >> >> "We want to make students aware of the teachings of Gita. We have the >> >> permission but let us see when we can start distributing the holy >> >> book," Nityanand Ram of ISKON said. >> >> >> >> As soon as the university registrar dashed off letters to the deans of >> >> various faculties asking them to help ISKON in preaching Gita lessons, >> >> a section of the students and lecturers came out in opposition. >> >> Kirit Bhatt of the Public Union for Civil Liberty (PUCL) said: "Once >> >> you allow a religious sect in the campus, you cannot deny the same >> >> right to other religions. Religion is propagated in society, but this >> >> must be kept out of the campus." >> >> >> >> But Vice Chancellor Manoj Soni defended the move: "Gita is not a >> >> religious >> >> book at all. It is a book that teaches. It is about spirituality." >> >> Supporting him, commerce lecturer Pragnesh Shah said: "Lessons from >> >> the >> >> Gita >> >> are read in some American universities too. Education is incomplete >> >> without >> >> the Gita." >> >> >> >> But Tapan Dasgupta, a student leader, asked: "How can you allow a >> >> religious >> >> group to carry out such an activity inside the campus > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Your explaination is unsatisfactory... The members of the conference cannot identify you, and hence your words have no meaning... because anyone can say anything anonymously, which means the writer won't "back up" his words, hence they "carry no weight"! If you are a man/woman of principle, then better you leave ISKCON, no? Because ISKCON has been preaching to students - and will continue to do so despite your anonymous opinion (even if I supported you!) - for a very, very long time. Longer than your 10 years. Can you stop it? And please, for your own benefit, improve your English! "Career" is not spelled "carrier", "for crying out loud", but I guess you might not know that idomatic English expression either?! Just consider: graffiti is found all over the world, but who takes it seriously? Your anonymous opinions will meet the same fate... but suit yourself: you are already doing so! > I am a devotee for more than a decade and pamho id has allies with > spiritual names. > I wish to stress my point again. ISKCON should not interfere with the > livelihoods of students. > At this young age a student MAY decide based on the washed brain and > latter MAY repent for it. > Campus preaching will lead to immature and biased decision on the part of > youngsters irrespective of whether it is a right or wrong move. > How ISKCON can redress for the lost carriers or how will it compensate if > a claim is made in a court of law? > It is pathetic to note that Devotees who lost their carrier are looking > for alternative survival techniques, like high tech. fund raising > campaigns. solai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 > You are correct prabhu, the world consists of 99.999% of the typical > materialists you are talking about, and they would like to avoid hanging > around temples for a living and will never wish to sustain on donations > collected for the service of the Lord. > Solai Devotees don't hang around temples nor do they wish to sustain themselves on donations collected for the Lord. The business of a devotee is purely spiritual. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada and our Guru Maharaja condemned the business of showing the Deity, collecting money and eating and sleeping. A real devotee's business is to go out and preach vigorously the message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He does not do this for economic benefit but for the pleasure of the Lord and the eternal benefit of the condition souls. A materialist cannot understand this transcendental transaction and views the activities of the devotees as just another material activity. That is because they are atheists who do not understand nor accept the loving relationship that motivates both the devotee and the Lord. Here's what Srila Prabhupada has to say on this topic: Room Conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Guru Krpa Swami Fiji, May 2, 1976 (extract from Transcendental Diary Vol 2): Gurukrpa Maharaja then brought the conversation closer to home. He wanted to know about Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers, because they have disciples, they are properly initiated, and they give the Hare Krsna mantra. Prabhupada gave us a frank, unbiased analysis from his own broad perspective and successful experience. "The thing is the spirit, real service of preaching, stopped. The formality is going on, but the real business.. "Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement means amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [become a guru and try to liberate everyone on this land--Cc. Madhya 7.128] That is stopped. Do you follow? The formality is there, but the real life of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is preaching. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa. Tara means preaching. Yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna'-upadesa [instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krsna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam CCc. Madhya 7.128] And that is stopped. They are satisfied if they could construct one temple and beg some rice from the neighborhood: ‘Sir, we have got some temple.' That's all. They are satisfied. The spirit of preaching forward-- papi tapi yata chila, hari name uddharila [The Holy Name delivers those who are lowly and wretched– Ista-deve vijnapti by Narottama dasa Thakura]– that is stopped. "So by hari-nama, by chanting, by this way, to live little peacefully in the temple and eat and sleep, that much they have got. If that is the success, that success they have got. And this was condemned by my Guru Maharaja, that ‘To earn some money by showing Deity in the temple and eat and sleep? Better you become a sweeper in the street and earn your honest livelihood and live.'" Many temples in Vrndavana have the same mentality, he said. They think of the operation of the temple as a business; that if people are coming and they give something, that is their good income. "According to the temple's popularity, they think, ‘This is our success.' Therefore they are deteriorating. So that is not success. Success is his who is pushing forward the preaching method. That is his success. And if we think that ‘By showing a temple Deity we get some money and rice and cloth and just peacefully live here; don't bother about going to Fiji and all over. ...' That much success they have got. But that is not Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama, sarvatra pracara--What they are doing for that? That is point." [end] But even if a devotee is not out preaching but remains at the temple chanting and performing the archana and puja of the Deity, still his position is far better than any materialist who has no desire or connection with the Lord. By his worship of the Lord he will gradually become purified from the false identification with the body and material surroundings and eventually get out of this material realm of birth, disease, old age and death. All the economic advancement in the world will not save anyone from these miseries of material live. Bill Gates gives billions in charity to help cure disease. But when he becomes diseased and has to die, will any amount of money save him? Is it that because he is richer than anyone else he will live longer than anyone else? But the sincere chanting of the holy names of the Lord, rendering service to Him, bowing down before Him and always meditating upon His transcendental pastimes etc. is a guarantee that such a devotee will, upon leaving this body, go back home back to Godhead and never have to take birth again in this material world. Progress of human society is not measured in illusory terms of so-called economic advancement driven by technical manipulation, which is only creating more and more problems for society at large. In their insatiable urge for economic advancement the gross materialists have brought the whole world to a precarious position, bu they have never brought anyone to a solution to the real miseries of material existence. Only taking shelter of the Holy Name can do that. You say: > It was a very bad experience for Vast number of drop outs from schools > and colleges who joined ISKCON. > They were regretting for their lost carrier at a latter point of > time. Where is your evidence to support your statement? Making viarious statements requires facts to back them up. I personally know vast numbers of students who don't regret for a moment their involvement with ISKCON. Rather the opposite. You may have your own opinion and you are entitled to it. But don't project your own misunderstandings and sentiments as if they are held by a majority. That is as dishonest as person claiming that the way to progress is economic development. Your humble servant, Hari-sauri dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 > > At this young age a student MAY decide based on the washed brain and > > latter MAY repent for it. You claim to be a devotee but by your statements it seems you have no understanding of devotional life. To suggest that a person makes a decision to become a devotee due to being brain washed shows you have no devotional sense at all. The attacks on ISKCON's preaching by atheists, disgruntled parents, etc. in the 70's promoted this idea of brainwashing, (although the term has no scientific standing at all) and implied that by some mind control techinque young people were being taken advantage of. This is patent nonsense. Young people are being taken advantage of by being educated in an atheistic system that induces them from birth to believe that the only path to happiness is economic development. They are "brainwashed" (if you insist on that term) into believing that they are economic units whose only success in life will come if they participate in the country's economic schemes. In this way they are being misled as to the true goal in life. Young people require education so that they can make informed decisions as to how to live their lives in the most successful way possible. The best education is Bhagavad Gita (Raja Vidya) and Srimad Bhagavatam. The best way of life is that dedicated to the development of one's eternal relationship with the Lord. ISKCON is presenting that and anyone who has some intelligence will take it up -- krsna varnam tvisa krsnam.....yajanti hi sumedasa. On the other hand, those who are alpa-medasa are described in BG: "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary." BG 7.23 How can we encourage the youth of today to engage in the worship of the demigods of economic development? And if a young man or woman responds to the logic and reason of the BG and SB why should they be considered brain-washed? In India, as in most other countries, a person is considered an adult at age 18. They can drive, vote and do many other legal transactions as a responsible adult. Yet by your logic they are not competent to make a decision that will bring about their ultimate and permanent good. You say you have been a devotee for ten years but you have apparently learned nothing, not even the most fundamental and simple truths. Your humble servant, Hari-sauri dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 > I'm not sure who "Solai" is: it would be nice if you identified yourself > so we'd know who we're discussing with. He used to live in Mayapur trying to make business out of a cyber cafe. He moved from Mayapur when it didn't work. He is the same person who is ranting against the new temple project in Mayapur, because he thinks it will ruin the natural, ecological environment. That should give you a hint about his mentality. ys, jdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 > I am a devotee for more than a decade and pamho id has allies with spiritual > names. I am an ally too---with another opinion. > I wish to stress my point again. ISKCON should not interfere with the > livelihoods of students. Modern Livelihood = deathhood of students, death of the atma. > At this young age a student MAY decide based on the washed brain and latter > MAY repent for it. Better to have clean brain--either now or later--but the sooner the better. > Campus preaching will lead to immature and biased decision on the part of > youngsters irrespective of whether it is a right or wrong move. According to Bhagawat Puran it can never be wrong to move towards full surrender to Bhagawan even if one later decides otherwise. The basis of decision should be Vedas, not mental speculation. tyaktvä sva-dharmam caranämbujam harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi yatra kva väbhadram abhüd amusya kim ko värtha äpto 'bhajatäm sva-dharmatah (Bhag 1.5.17) "One who has forsaken his material occupations to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything." > How ISKCON can redress for the lost carriers or how will it compensate if a > claim is made in a court of law? If one's carrier is lost then it should be redressed whether in or outside of court. > It is pathetic to note that Devotees who lost their carrier are looking for > alternative survival techniques, like high tech. fund raising campaigns. > solai May they find their carriers, but may Lord Krishna carry them home whether with high or low tech carrier. pcd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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