Guru issue - DG's PL ritvik / mayavada?

[Guest guest]

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus

PAMHO AGTSP

 

I have carefully read Dhira Govinda Prabhu's 'Srila Prabhupada: The

Prominent Link' (PL) along with other recent statements from DG about his

position on guru tattva.

 

Let it be known that I am without any contempt whatsoever prior to

investigation. I've always praised DG to the hilt. I took his Child

Protection course many, many years ago and found it professional and useful.

But I think he's now losing his friends fast because of his serious

philosophical misconceptions on guru tattva.

 

The issue at hand - on the surface - is what is the right balance for Srila

Prabhupada’s prominence in ISKCON. Three seemingly equal levels emerge:

 

1. The ritvik idea puts Srila Prabhupada as the prominent link.

2. Dhira Govinda Prabhu also puts Srila Prabhupada as the prominent link.

3. ISKCON also holds Srila Prabhupada as the prominent link.

 

So what are the differences?

 

1. The ritvik idea concocts that anyone can take diksha from Srila

Prabhupada posthumously, there is no other option, taking SP's prominence to

a non-parampara extreme.

 

2. DG's PL implies ritvik, jumping over - not going through - one's diksha

guru, taking diksha posthumously from SP, is an acceptable option. But then

he adds that the regular guru system is also an acceptable option. This

concept is seemingly disguised behind an array of Srila Prabhupada

prominence.

 

3. ISKCON holds that Srila Prabhupada is always an accessible prominent link

for everyone but pranam mantras and food offerings by non-direct Prabhupada

disciples are offered ‘through’ one's diksha guru, observing the normal guru

disciple etiquette.

 

I recently inquired from DG if in his view someone could become a diksha

disciple of Srila Prabhupada posthumously. He replied I should read his PL

and would find the answer. So I read PL carefully several times and found

extensive Prabhupada Centered material, but tucked inside and cleverly

disguised was the same old ritvik ideology but with some additional

mayavada, as can be seen in DG’s words below.

 

In Dhira Govinda’s own words below from PL are his conclusive proposals,

revealing a sneaked-in ritvik and mayavada ideology amidst a Prabhupada

Centered covering:

 

===============

Proposal: It is a legitimate worship practice for all members of Srila

Prabhupäda’s movement to recite Srila Prabhupäda’s pranam mantras in

recognition that Srila Prabhupäda is serving as the devotee’s prominent and

current link to the paramparä. Pranam mantras for others need not be recited

in order to connect one with Srila Prabhupäda. [Optional: This does not mean

that other pranam mantras can’t be recited to connect one with Srila

Prabhupäda.]

===============

 

Yes, Srila Prabhupada is always accessible as the ‘prominent link’ for

everyone, but as a ‘current link’ no. There is a ‘huge link’ difference here

which DG ostensibly tries to shrewdly equate. Srila Prabhupada is 'not

current' by his own definition, a guru is current only when he is physically

present. Srila Prabhupada lives with us most prominently in sound and vani,

but not in current flesh. The regular guru system/tradition/etiquette is

that whether or not one's current or was current diksha guru is the most

prominent link pranam mantras are offered 'through' one's diksha guru. All

DG is saying here is that if you want to adopt the ritvik idea of jumping

over your immediate parampara link it is OK, but if you also want to offer

'through' your diksha guru, the regular guru system, that is also OK. Its

optional. You’re OK I’m OK. Heard that before? But ritvik is not an option,

its a concoction. But DG implies its all one! Either way it is the same!

This falsification of equalisation is simply crystal clear mayavada!!

 

 

 

 

===============

"Proposal: It is a legitimate worship practice for all members of Srila

Prabhupäda’s movement to worship Srila Prabhupäda’s picture as the link to

the paramparä. No pictures need be worshipped as the link to Srila

Prabhupäda. [Optional: This does not mean that other pictures can’t be

worshipped as the link to Srila Prabhupäda.]"

===============

 

He's proposing no pictures of one's diksha link are needed, but if you wish

to have a picture of your diksha guru you may do so. But by the same logic

anyone can jump to any guru anywhere up the entire parampara chain - take

your pick!!! ‘No pictures needed’ in DG’s above resolution implies and

encourages that jumping over one's diksha guru is an acceptable option, but

that is simply ritvik which is not an option. Only direct Prabhupada

disciples can offer their prasada directly to their diksha guru Srila

Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada of course is still the prominent link for

everyone. The regular guru system/tradition/etiquette is that whether or not

one's diksha guru is the most prominent link food is offered 'through' one's

current or was current diksha guru. That is the timeless system which DG's

proposal attempts to change, leading to the dangerous philosophical

misconceptions mentioned herein.

 

 

 

 

==============

Proposal: It is an acceptable understanding of the process of initiation for

the devotee performing the initiation ceremony and the devotee receiving

initiation to consider that the initiate is qualified to participate in the

ceremony due to the fact that he has already directly connected with Srila

Prabhupäda, and that the initiation ceremony is an official acknowledgment

of this fact, and that Srila Prabhupäda continues, after the initiation

ceremony, to be the prominent, direct link to the paramparä for the

initiate.

==============

 

DG doesn’t use the word ‘current’ in this resolution, but it is obvious he

is peddling ritvik through the lines. Is DG saying that after the initiation

the initiate is a direct diksha disciple of Srila Prabhupada? When asked

about this DG replies that the answer lies in his paper PL, saying neither

yes or no. But his previous above resolutions clearly indicate his position

as ritvik and mayavada.

 

 

 

 

==============

Proposal: Consistent with Srila Prabhupada’s delineation, in places such as

the first page of the Sri Caitanya-caritämåta, Ädi-lilä, of the essential

understanding of initiation, it is legitimate to consider that Srila

Prabhupada is initiating devotees who genuinely, directly connect with him

by serving his vani and accepting that vani as the guiding force of their

life. This understanding is applicable regardless of who conducted the

formal initiation ceremony for the devotee.

==============

 

Everyone can connect with Srila Prabhupada directly, just pick up one of

Srila Prabhupada’s books and start reading, its a direct link/connection.

But the system of linking or connecting with Srila Prabhupada and the

parampara with pranam mantras and pictures is not direct if one is not a

direct diksha disciple. Disciples of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples offer

pranam mantras to and have pictures of their diksha gurus, and cannot jump

over as Srila Prabhupada puts it. The guru and disciple system of going

'through' one’s current or was current link - not jumping over - is the

parampara system, even in cases where one's siksha guru may be the most

prominent link, as is the case with Srila Prabhupada in ISKCON.

 

 

 

 

So in essence what Dhira Govinda is pushing/proposing as a bona fide model

of guru tattva for ISKCON is that if you want to be a ritvik then that's

acceptable and if you don't want to be a ritvik and wish to follow the

regular guru system then that's also acceptable. Its all one, and he’s made

all that a clearly written proposal as quoted above!!

 

As we discovered with the last group of ritvik proponents, ritvik ideology

is not supported by the final adjudicating system for Vaisnavas, i.e. guru,

sadhu, and sastra, and that in essence Dhira Govinda Prabhu's PL paper

amounts to no more than the same ritvik speculation but with some additional

mayavada.

 

I sincerely pray to Srila Prabhupada and Their Lordships to help Dhira

Govinda Prabhu realise his misconceptions and throw them far away.

 

I write this sincerely as a well wisher.

 

ys

 

ad

 

N.B. It is interesting that the devotee who originally instigated ritvik

also started the false allegation that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by his

nearest and dearest disciples. It just came to my attention that Dhira

Govinda Prabhu has also taken up the same false poison allegation banner. If

DG knew the repulsive details of the most inauspicious circumstances in

which the concocted ritvik and false poison allegations were born he might

well come to his senses. But the ritvik misconception is most destructive,

so we should all pray for DG’s speedy philosophical recovery.

[Guest guest]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

 

A humble request: please do not send me any further e-mails or material that

are negative about Satvatove and/or Dhira Govinda pr. and his writings. I

find it useless and time consuming.

 

I continue to follow my instincts, intuition, spirit, independence, and

judgement. Unless proven otherwise by my own discernment, I remain a

faithful and loyal follower and supporter of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON,

Mukunda Goswami (my spiritual master), Dhira Govinda pr., Satvatove, and my

like-minded devotees and friends in my circle of influence. For the rest I

show courtesy.

 

Thank you for considering my request.

 

Your friend and servant.

 

Hari-dhama dasa.

 

* SPIRIT MATTERS *

 

Henry Dom/Hari-dhama dasa. Ph.D.

Hindu-Vaisnava Chaplain/Bereavement + Spiritual Care Counsellor Sarangati

Counselling + Consultancy Services, Co. Reg. 5457043

4 The Firs, 44 Lawrie Park Gardens, Sydenham, SE26 6XN

Henry (AT) dom108 (DOT) fslife.co.uk tel:

mobile: 020-86597095

07905-279179

[Guest guest]

Instincts, intuition, spirit, independence, and judgment are not mentioned

in Srimad Bhagavatam as the solution for removing all troubles and miseries,

but rather they are the source.

 

Please, please, please be philosophical along the lines of our scriptures

..... Please study Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam carefully every day

and then you'll see things more clearly.

 

ys

 

ad

 

=========================================

 

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

 

A humble request: please do not send me any further e-mails or material that

are negative about Satvatove and/or Dhira Govinda pr. and his writings. I

find it useless and time consuming.

 

I continue to follow my instincts, intuition, spirit, independence, and

judgement. Unless proven otherwise by my own discernment, I remain a

faithful and loyal follower and supporter of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON,

Mukunda Goswami (my spiritual master), Dhira Govinda pr., Satvatove, and my

like-minded devotees and friends in my circle of influence. For the rest I

show courtesy.

 

Thank you for considering my request.

 

Your friend and servant.

 

Hari-dhama dasa.

 

* SPIRIT MATTERS *

 

Henry Dom/Hari-dhama dasa. Ph.D.

Hindu-Vaisnava Chaplain/Bereavement + Spiritual Care Counsellor Sarangati

Counselling + Consultancy Services, Co. Reg. 5457043

4 The Firs, 44 Lawrie Park Gardens, Sydenham, SE26 6XN

Henry (AT) dom108 (DOT) fslife.co.uk tel:

mobile: 020-86597095

07905-279179