agument

[Guest guest]

> So "false religion" or "misused religion" means

> atheism. Therefore atheism is the cause for all evil - even the evil

> that are committed in the name of theism is atheism.

 

Yep

 

> Yes, my argument is based on the presumption (read knowledge) that

> God defines good and bad. My point was that the atheist by his

> argument presupposes that an all-good God doesn't exist, so

> therefore the theists can also construct an argument that

> presupposes the existence of an all-good God, which also has defined

> good and bad. On that basis both arguments are equal and the

> atheistic argument is thus ruled out as definitive.

 

Ok

 

> >Makes sense to me.

 

> Nice!

 

But what about other members?

 

> >Well, there are also dharmic wars. In Kali-yuga almost nonexistent

> >but still...

>

> As far as I understand all these dharmic wars are caused by

> atheistic behaviour. For example, the battle at Kurukshetra was

> caused by "the evil minded sons of Dhrtarastra", and not by the

> Pandavas.

 

Right, you said 'caused' and I understood 'exist'. My oversight.

 

Personally, with an atheist I usually don't start talking about God

immediately but first talk about laws. How human laws are based on

religious and natural laws and the need of a Lawgiver (since a law

won't arise from an 'original chaos', just as a matter naturally

degrades, not evolves).

 

> Well, the only kind of war or fighting I can think of being caused

> by religion is when Krishna want's to fight and arranges it. His

> fights with Jaya and Vijaya in their form as Hiranyaksha and

> Hiranyakashipu is an example. But I don't think the atheists will

> pull out that example from their sleeve, and if they do then we can

> argue that there exist beneficial wars and that all harmfull wars

> are caused by atheism.

 

Ditto.

 

> >sa eva bhagavan yuge turiye 'pi brahma-kule

> >jayamanah sarva upanisadah uddidirsuh

> >sarvani dharma-astrani vistarayisnuh sarvan

> >api janan santarayisnuh sarvan api vaisnavan

> >dharman vijrimbhayan sarvan api pasandan nicakhana

>

> >In the Kali-yuga, Supreme Lord will appear in a brahmana's family.

> >He will teach the message of the Upanisads and the dharma-sastras.

> >He will defeat the atheists and offenders and He will establish the

> >truth of Vaisnava-dharma. (Krsna Upanisad 2.6)

>

> I guess his comming and fighting is caused by the atheistic and

> offensive behaviour of the demons - and no one else. What do you say

> Prabhu?

 

He and His devotees also enjoy adharma being suppressed (vinasaya ca

duskrtam), no?

 

ys Jan