Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 > > Why don't they step back and think of why they joined this movement, > what did they hear that inspired them, do they remember all the > Harinams, classes, discussion, realisations etc, do they remember > praying to the Lord for guidance and help to get relief from sinful > reactions, if we agree that suffering is because of reactions to > sins, then hasn't Lord Krsna promised us, if we surrender he will > deliver us, hasn't He said "Daivi hy esa guna mayi" the material > energy can only be overcome if we surrender, why have so many felt > the need to become distracted? Need I quote any more. I will be > enlivened when I hear more tell us about their realisations, > revelations about Krsna and the devotees, not revelations about their > false egos, how they are a better person, a better communicator, the > fact is we may never get all that stuff right, Srila Prabhupada used > the phrase making the best use of a bad bargain, I take that to be > the mind as well, okay, if we are really bad, Srila Prabhupada did > say no crazies or lazies, but privately we may seek some temporary > assistance if we are really suffering mentally, but I don't think > it's right to advertise it, make others feel they are insecure, > scared etc, if they don't try it, what will be the new term > "Psycho-phobia" , let's get back to basics, please and as Lord > Krishna also tells us "They derive great pleasure enlightening one > another and conversing about me" Nice points Ananta Purusottama: very nice. There is already a process, and we don't require soft sciences to access it. I've just been in Vrindavan and seen a course created by Srimate dasi, who formerly lived in Mayapur. She has no idea of what's going on in the world in terms of "transformational" courses or anything else, but has designed this course because she sees people in need of direction and support from our philosophy, and a practical way to apply it. Certainly we're in need of something like this in ISKCON, but I would like to see devotees exercising what God given intelligence they have and using courses such as this one Srimate has designed to gain understanding and realization, not the soft sciences. There's nothing of value to be gained from that, as you point out, apart from a stroking of the ego and a conviction in the mind that we're on the right track by inventing some alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 > > although what you said sounds logical we don't have to really go asking > > 1000s of people to find out the truth because even if the truth is > > spoken by only one truthful person it's enough to establish the truth. > > what matters is the source. if the source is genuine, that's it. > > DG is not allowed into ISKCON, as far as I understand, because of his > "Prominent Link" philosophy. Great. > > But why do I get the impression that his courses are the reason he is out? > Have I misunderstood the GBC ruling? If so, please tell me. Alright, I'll tell you Dhira Govinda writes letters to the GBC demanding the poison case be reopened for investigation. He writes papers like the Prominent Link that, although well written, show he hasn't grasped even the basics of Vaishnava theology. He openly rebels against the authority of the GBC. Just for that he should be kicked. And for trying to inflame the poison theory he should be kicked even harder. Anyone who can even entertain the thought in his mind of Prabhupada being poisoned by his most dear servants ought to have his head examined. If Srila Prabhupada and his followers are to be glorified for the next many thousand years as the ones who saved the world and stopped Kali-yuga's progress, then how can it be that he was poisoned to death by a bunch of scheming, evil persons? This is what we are asked to believe, or even think about. What would it look like in the history books two hundred years from now if Prabhupada was poisoned by his most trusted and trained servants? As far as I am concerned only atheists and demons entertain such thoughts. Our philosophy, the Vedic philosophy that was given to us by Srila Prabhupada is to be used to discern reality. He didn't give us such a valuable gift to serve our minds and false egos. The question of the GBC's reasons to rule GD out or not has no relevance. It is such a clear cut case There would be something wrong with the GBC if they didn't expel someone who is openly critical and rebellious towards them, and who fraternizes with the enemy. The only way you can get the idea into your head that Prabhupada was poisoned is from atheists and demons. So in DGs case we have a person who openly rebels against ISKCON authority, who writes papers questioning the parampara system as if he had a clue what he was talking about and writing other letters to the GBC demanding investigation of the poison issue, who fraternizes with sworn enemies of ISKCON, and you wonder about the GBC's reasons for telling him to conduct his courses off ISKCON property? When are people ever going to get it? ISKCON is not a modern democracy where everyone's opinion is sought after. GBC is the highest authority in ISKCON, because Prabhupada said so. One doesn't have to like the GBC to be in ISKCON but one has to recognize them as the ultimate authority. One cannot claim to be a follower of Prabhupada without being a follower of ISKCON and one cannot claim being a follower of ISKCON without being a follower of the GBC. It's very straight forward. Nobody asked you to like it but you have to follow the system Prabhupada set up. > For instance, you may be a great cook, and write the "Prominent Link" - > then like DG you will also have to cook outside ISKCON. If people then say > you were a lousy cook, that shows their problem, not that you were a bad > cook. > > Similarily, it is not open day on every aspect of Dhira Govinda's > activities - including his courses - because the GBC have banned him. But > when the GBC banned him from conducting his courses on ISKCON property, it > was not a signal that we could unleach all our artillery at him! He deserves everything we got in our arsenal. It's about time we stop being victims of the modern idea of relativism. Lets call things by their proper names like Prabhupada did it. As for people who cannot accept authority and who speculate their own brands of philosophy, Prabhupada called them atheists and demons. Vidura stood right next to Duryodhan while telling Dhritarastra that his son was a demon and should be cast out. In fact he told him right there to his face that it would have been better if Duryodhan had been cast out from his very birth. There wasn't any pussy-footing around in those days. The modern idea of being nice and neutral to everyone is simply a concept invented by atheists and demons so they can conduct their evil business unhindered, without anyone being able to say anything against them. Even in ISKCON every time someone opens his mouth against them he is being told that he is offensive and a fundamentalistic fanatic. That's how they intimidate everyone and fool even devotees. Well, it's about time we fight back and begin saying things straight out instead of all this euphemistic hog wash we are being served by the modern culture. > > an > > intelligent person will accept it without going around. what should we > > do if we ask 5000 persons asking if Krishna is the supreme Lord and all > > say no? we can't accept such majority to establish truth. > > > With relation to accepting the GBC decision on DG, I agree of course. On a last note to end this little sermon, I just came from Vrindavan where DG has very enthusiastic supporters canvassing everyone in the MVT for his seminar in Navadvip. It seems like he is one of the new hot trends. Now that his seminar has been banned from ISKCON he is being welcomed by Narayan Maharaja, who tells all his followers to attend DG's course. That's another reason we have to educate our devotees in what's going on in the world of ISKCON. Your servant Jahnudvip das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 pamho AGTSP! thankyou janhudvip pr for making all good points, perfectly presented. Hare Krishna. ys, bbd > > > > although what you said sounds logical we don't have to really go > > > asking 1000s of people to find out the truth because even if the truth > > > is spoken by only one truthful person it's enough to establish the > > > truth. what matters is the source. if the source is genuine, that's > > > it. > > > > DG is not allowed into ISKCON, as far as I understand, because of his > > "Prominent Link" philosophy. Great. > > > > But why do I get the impression that his courses are the reason he is > > out? Have I misunderstood the GBC ruling? If so, please tell me. > > Alright, I'll tell you > > Dhira Govinda writes letters to the GBC demanding the poison case be > reopened for investigation. He writes papers like the Prominent Link that, > although well written, show he hasn't grasped even the basics of Vaishnava > theology. He openly rebels against the authority of the GBC. Just for that > he should be kicked. And for trying to inflame the poison theory he should > be kicked even harder. Anyone who can even entertain the thought in his > mind of Prabhupada being poisoned by his most dear servants ought to have > his head examined. > > If Srila Prabhupada and his followers are to be glorified for the next > many thousand years as the ones who saved the world and stopped > Kali-yuga's progress, then how can it be that he was poisoned to death by > a bunch of scheming, evil persons? This is what we are asked to believe, > or even think about. What would it look like in the history books two > hundred years from now if Prabhupada was poisoned by his most trusted and > trained servants? As far as I am concerned only atheists and demons > entertain such thoughts. Our philosophy, the Vedic philosophy that was > given to us by Srila Prabhupada is to be used to discern reality. He > didn't give us such a valuable gift to serve our minds and false egos. > > The question of the GBC's reasons to rule GD out or not has no relevance. > It is such a clear cut case There would be something wrong with the GBC if > they didn't expel someone who is openly critical and rebellious towards > them, and who fraternizes with the enemy. The only way you can get the > idea into your head that Prabhupada was poisoned is from atheists and > demons. So in DGs case we have a person who openly rebels against ISKCON > authority, who writes papers questioning the parampara system as if he had > a clue what he was talking about and writing other letters to the GBC > demanding investigation of the poison issue, who fraternizes with sworn > enemies of ISKCON, and you wonder about the GBC's reasons for telling him > to conduct his courses off ISKCON property? > > When are people ever going to get it? ISKCON is not a modern democracy > where everyone's opinion is sought after. GBC is the highest authority in > ISKCON, because Prabhupada said so. One doesn't have to like the GBC to be > in ISKCON but one has to recognize them as the ultimate authority. One > cannot claim to be a follower of Prabhupada without being a follower of > ISKCON and one cannot claim being a follower of ISKCON without being a > follower of the GBC. It's very straight forward. Nobody asked you to like > it but you have to follow the system Prabhupada set up. > > > For instance, you may be a great cook, and write the "Prominent Link" - > > then like DG you will also have to cook outside ISKCON. If people then > > say you were a lousy cook, that shows their problem, not that you were a > > bad cook. > > > > Similarily, it is not open day on every aspect of Dhira Govinda's > > activities - including his courses - because the GBC have banned him. > > But when the GBC banned him from conducting his courses on ISKCON > > property, it was not a signal that we could unleach all our artillery at > > him! > > He deserves everything we got in our arsenal. It's about time we stop > being victims of the modern idea of relativism. Lets call things by their > proper names like Prabhupada did it. As for people who cannot accept > authority and who speculate their own brands of philosophy, Prabhupada > called them atheists and demons. Vidura stood right next to Duryodhan > while telling Dhritarastra that his son was a demon and should be cast > out. In fact he told him right there to his face that it would have been > better if Duryodhan had been cast out from his very birth. There wasn't > any pussy-footing around in those days. The modern idea of being nice and > neutral to everyone is simply a concept invented by atheists and demons so > they can conduct their evil business unhindered, without anyone being able > to say anything against them. > > Even in ISKCON every time someone opens his mouth against them he is being > told that he is offensive and a fundamentalistic fanatic. That's how they > intimidate everyone and fool even devotees. Well, it's about time we fight > back and begin saying things straight out instead of all this euphemistic > hog wash we are being served by the modern culture. > > > > an > > > intelligent person will accept it without going around. what should > > > we do if we ask 5000 persons asking if Krishna is the supreme Lord and > > > all say no? we can't accept such majority to establish truth. > > > > > With relation to accepting the GBC decision on DG, I agree of course. > > On a last note to end this little sermon, I just came from Vrindavan where > DG has very enthusiastic supporters canvassing everyone in the MVT for his > seminar in Navadvip. It seems like he is one of the new hot trends. Now > that his seminar has been banned from ISKCON he is being welcomed by > Narayan Maharaja, who tells all his followers to attend DG's course. > That's another reason we have to educate our devotees in what's going on > in the world of ISKCON. > > Your servant > Jahnudvip das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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