Vedr.: yoga? ... and then back to atheism :o)

[Guest guest]

> > > "Atma Yoga is designed to raise the student to the platform of

> > > Bhakti, ecstatic devotional service to God...

> >

> > Really? And the process we have doesn't do that?

>

> It does. But if you tell a new person 'follow this process or get

> lost',

 

Wow, is that how you preach?! That's a little extreme: "follow the process

or get lost." If you're talking to me, that's way off-track from how I'd

preach to someone. There's ways to present the process: not that you throw

the whole thing at someone and if they can't handle it then they're

"losers." But does that mean we create our own process? No.

 

> your success will be very low and you'll get either very

> advanced or very unadvanced people (like social or psycho cases). In

> ISKCON I have seen both. What I usually don't see are people from

> mainstream. Those atmayogis, however, look pretty mainstream to me. So

> it seems to be a successful way to attract people to come to our

> temples, get prasadam, etc. And I don't see any other ISKCON programs

> focusing on yoga crowd, to see their comparison.

 

You don't see them where, from your window? Pretty limited viewpoint. Sounds

like you're familiar with Atmayoga because you were involved with it

somewhat. Are you sure you're being objective?

>

> As I said, many people interested in yoga will otherwise end up with

> mayavadis, plus having anti-ISKCON views (anticult movement has them

> all) based on our perceived 'narrowmindedness'.

 

That's a sweeping statement. I know a lot of yoga people in California,

France, Mexico, and other places who have had some introduction to KC

through yoga teachers. Just because they're not promoting themselves doesn't

mean it isn't happening.

>

> I don't know Atmananda P. so well. Is he such type of person? Anyone

> can tell?

 

Some who know him better can, and have....

 

> Our acaryas did many unorthodox things. Bhaktivinode Thakur started

> his Namahatta (resurrected in ISKCON by Jayapataka Swami on the order

> of Srila Prabhupada) to bring people gradually to bhakti since often

> they can't adopt the process in full right away.

 

That's no comparison. Nothing like it. You're more or less comparing

Atmananda to BT!

>

> Many spiritual groups 'create' such things. Jewish groups run

> immensely popular Kabbalah courses, there are management courses based

> on scriptural wisdom, etc. The fact that ISKCON is slow in adopting

> such innovations is more of a problem than an advantage.

 

Sure, but just because they don't exist doesn't mean someone should just

invent one and claim that it "elevates you to bhakti." It requires someone

on a higher level than this person to make such claims. And you're dodging

the initial questions that Ajita Krishna pr and Giri Nayaka pr and Jahnu pr

and myself have asked: on what basis can this person claim that it is

"Vaisnava yoga" and that it "elevates one to bhakti?" That's a lofty claim,

and I'd like to see some proof. All I'm hearing is hollow defense of yet

another new-age creation that supposedly fills all the monstrously huge gaps

that Srila Prabhupada forgot to fill ... ???

 

> I've been always inspired by those few devotees with such broad

> approach (Sridhar M., Bhaktitirtha M., Priyavrata P. of FFL, etc.)

> despite their criticisms.

 

Good for you

>

> I guess it all depends on one's vision and experiences.

 

Actually it doesn't at all. It depends on the bonafide status of the subject

under discussion. If someone can show me the content of this course and

prove to me that it elevates one to bhakti, and that it's "Vaisnava yoga,"

(which is in itself a dubious title), then I will be convinced.

 

> We run our

> VEDA site as a general Vedic resource, not just ISKCON resource, since

> that way we can reach many more people. So far we got practically only

> positive feedback. Ok, stopping self-promotion...8)

 

Sure, that's great....but I'm a little tired of repeating this: it's not the

same thing. This is a self-created process that so far I haven't seen has

much integrity in terms of yoga traditions. For example, the course promotes

that there are "four types of yoga systems" taught. That's just new age

mish-mash, to begin with, and no yoga person with an ounce of integrity will

acknowledge that this is a bonafide way to present or teach yoga. Secondly,

he states that "within 5 weeks you'll be equipped to teach", which is

downright ridiculous. So can you please stop just throwing out comparisons

which are, in fact, NOT comparisons? Your site is definitely a bonafide

bridge-preaching facility. So are many other things. This is not, so far as

I can see. It runs the risk of doing more harm than good, and if it's

recognition in the mainstream that he's seeking -- which would be GREAT for

ISKCON to do thru a yoga venue -- then I'm afraid he's going to miss the

mark with his less-than-noble approach.

>

> > There's a world of difference between innovative

> > preaching and telling someone that what they've created lifts one to

> > the platform of bhakti. Sheesh....

>

> Then let's see the results after some time.

>

> To conclude, I pay my obeisance to anyone who can bring even one

> person to bhakti path.

 

So would I. However, I would pay them more sincerely to a person who can

bring just one person and at the same time not alienate thousands...

 

ys

BSdd