Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

[Guest guest]

Posted by Yaduraja on Jan 29, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO, AGTSP,

I accept your apology.

You say:

 

> That is not true. Rather I repeatedly pointed out logical fallacies until

> you replaced your point a) with something else.

 

In English what I replaced it with did not contradict the original point a),

so my point still stands. You did agree with our position, only later you

claim you realised that you had misunderstood what that position was. Anyway

you have now apologised and withdrawn your position. So I shall move to the

next point you made:

 

> You wrote that Srila Prabhupada set himself up, deliberately, in the

> position of the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966. But this is possible

> only if in 1965 Srila Prabhupada was not the diksa guru for ISKCON. So

> please prove by a statement from Srila Prabhupada that in 1965 Srila

> Prabhupada was not the diksa guru for ISKCON, or in your claim replace

> "1966" with "1965".

 

You accept that srila Prabhupada officially, legally formed ISKCON in 1966:

 

> Note that although ISKCON has been incorporated in 1966

 

Our whole discussion is framed solely and exclusively by what should be

happening WITHIN ISKCON. Therefore, for the sake of this debate, we are only

concerned from the point of ISKCON’s official, legal birth.

 

Here are some other quotes you may find of interest:

 

It is just a comparison, a little comparison, but this Krishna consciousness

movement was started, practically, from 1967. I went there in 1965, and for

one year I could not do anything. In 1966 this movement was registered in

New York, and from 1966 it is spreading. (Lecture Nov 8th 1972)

 

So in 1965 I first came in New York. Then in 1966 this society was regularly

registered in New York, and from 1967 this movement is regularly going on in

America, Europe, Canada, and south of Pacific Ocean, Australia, and

throughout the whole world. (Lecture July 12 1975)

 

Since I came to your country in 1965... Of course, for one year I was

travelling here and there, but in 1966 I established first my class in New

York at 26 Second Avenue. (lecture April 29th 1969)

 

So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was travelling in

many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania,

Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in

this way I was travelling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I

started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting.

(Lecture Feb 1968)

 

I came here in 1965. But for one year there was no program; I was loitering

only. And then, in 1966, July, I registered this society in New York, and

gradually these students... I rented one storefront in New York, Second

Avenue, and in this way practically it was started in 1966. (Conv July 5th

1975)

 

Therefore, with great difficulty I came here in 1965. In 1966 I registered

the Society with the help of some friends and disciples, and the movement

was started regularly in 1966, July, from New York. (Letter 16th july 1970)

 

Since then in 1965 I came to America and started this missionary activity

from New York in 1966. (letter 7th August 1975)

 

So Srila Prabhupada says he came in 1965 as part of his mission, but for one

year he ‘could not do anything’. Things only really got started when he

registered his society in 1966:

 

‘That is my first starting’, ‘practically it was started in 1966’ ‘the

movement was started regularly in 1966 .

 

So whilst it is true Srila Prabhupada came to start his mission in the West

in 1965, and therefore loosely speaking the Movement began at that time,

legally speaking, and certainly for the parameters of this debate, it is not

possible to be the diksa guru for a society unless that society exists as a

legal entity.

 

Srila Prabhupada could only be the diksa guru for ISKCON once ISKCON

existed. ISKCON itself only came into legal existence in 1966. So for the

purposes of this debate we shall stick with 1966 if you don’t mind.

 

If you agree with this I shall then go on to re-prove point a).

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu