animal parts and kali yuga

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/13/2006 , Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

 

Regarding the natural death theory: it is only that. who can say for sure?

> Inida is the no. one exported of leather in the world and no one will ever

> convince my kali yuga mind that all of those animals died a "natural"

> death!

 

We had better stop using mridangas and camaras, then

 

 

 

My take on it is that in this wretched age of kali, where every endeavor is

tainted, we need to know that there is going to be smoke with every fire and

do our best to minimize and adjust. It is basically a hopeless situation for

the false purist and a wonderful opportunity for the devotees of the Lord.

Just get out of here and Go Back to Home, to Godhead!

[Guest guest]

> We had better stop using mridangas and camaras, then

>

>

>

> My take on it is that in this wretched age of kali, where every endeavor

> is tainted, we need to know that there is going to be smoke with every

> fire and do our best to minimize and adjust. It is basically a hopeless

> situation for the false purist and a wonderful opportunity for the

> devotees of the Lord. Just get out of here and Go Back to Home, to

> Godhead!

 

My sentiments exactly. I completely agree.

 

ys, jdd

[Guest guest]

> > We had better stop using mridangas and camaras, then

> >

> >

> >

> > My take on it is that in this wretched age of kali, where every endeavor

> > is tainted, we need to know that there is going to be smoke with every

> > fire and do our best to minimize and adjust. It is basically a hopeless

> > situation for the false purist and a wonderful opportunity for the

> > devotees of the Lord. Just get out of here and Go Back to Home, to

> > Godhead!

>

> My sentiments exactly. I completely agree.

>

> ys, jdd

 

I agree. Let me add a couple of points.

 

One would be to take a humble attitude about it, knowing that no matter how

strict we are, there will always be someone doing it better.

 

Second would be to not fall into the trap of complacency, becoming

comfortable where we are. The material world is a relative place, but the

process of dealing with it is that of progressive advancement. The Gita

says - here is the best, but if you can't do that, do the best you can and

then work from there to be better. We may never arrive at the "best", but if

we stop trying, we will be swept backwards by the current.

 

Srila Prahbupada used a refrigerateur that had meat in it when he was in

Butler, so he was practical, but he never became complacent and was always

seeking to make things better. He didn't continue the practice.

 

Self righteousness and complacency are major weapons in the hands of Maya.

[Guest guest]

>

> Regarding the natural death theory: it is only that. who can say for

> sure?

> > Inida is the no. one exported of leather in the world and no one will

> > ever convince my kali yuga mind that all of those animals died a

> > "natural" death!

>

> We had better stop using mridangas and camaras, then

>By the way, did you know that there are cow parts in computer keyboards?

>And steering wheels, and about a zillion other common ordinary household

>items? What about common ordinary ply wood that is held together by GLUE,

>as in from animal bones. What to do?

>

 

> My take on it is that in this wretched age of kali, where every endeavor

> is tainted, we need to know that there is going to be smoke with every

> fire and do our best to minimize and adjust. It is basically a hopeless

> situation for the false purist and a wonderful opportunity for the

> devotees of the Lord. Just get out of here and Go Back to Home, to

> Godhead!

Dear prabhus,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

First of all I beg to ask for forgiveness as I am very small devotee

compared to who are discusssing here. Still I am writing what is in my

heart.

 

Please be patient and when ever you have time read this letter fully rather

than deleting it just by seeing the size.

 

We all know and agree that there are millions of parts tainted with

animal(cow) slaughter. My aim of this discussion as not making a law or

blaming any authority for this anamoly.

 

But are we as vaisnavas not supposed to raise awarness amonst us and

population in generel about cruelity along with KC awareness. Did Srila

Prabhupada not in begining days allowed devottes to eat as much gulab jams

and chappaties as they liked. But after some time he told them to control

and devotees complained why to limit. He told you did not complain then why

now.

 

The point being as we become devotees we are supposed to raise awareness and

not remain there under name of kaliyuga.

 

Similary did Srila Prabhupada not discouraged the use of leather items. In

one conversation (10 sept 1973 stockholm end part) he says that we use

mrdangas of hide made from naturally dead cows.

 

So what to do now for us. I am giving some real eg from my life and devotees

known. As I have some role to play in kitchen here in Mumbai I am stressing

to get more and more organic food for our needs. And yes if look for

alternatives they are there. We are slowly getting people who grow such

food. I don't believe any labelled organic food as I have no faith on

commercial establishment. They are full of corruption. I look for individual

farmers check their mentality and wether are they ready that my men will

come for random checks on there farms. Where there is will there is way. Is

it not devotees who have to raise awareness in preventing cruelty. As we

raise awareness the supply comes. If all devotees over the world demand for

more natural products certainly supplies will come. This is what I found in

my search for real self verified organic suupplies. I started comming across

more of such people. More than that the genuine framers who grow such food

out of philosophical convition they get enthused to carry on against all

odds and they get a sure market for there produce. So its symbiotic.

 

Similarly for mrdangas If demand them to be made of naturally dead cows and

buy after full fatih and check then supply will follow. But ball is in our

court that one of us do go around and see where we can get mrdangas from

really naturally dead cows. So its not Kaliyuga its we who have to do some

going around and stick to our standard. If we demand and buy only those

mrdangas supply will come. Initially there may be some shortage but as

market demands supply will come. Those who make such mrdangas will be

enthused and encougaged. They won't have to worry for market. We will fight

against Kali yuga together. And we will get Karma free mrdangas more pleasig

to lord.

 

About Varakh just as our devotee (I think president) from Jaipur infromed us

that he has seen people make it using cow leather with wax paper in between.

So we have alternative. we are not forced to but Varakh(silver foil) made in

intestine but if we insist on made in leather from naturally dead cow then

supply will come. Yes even devotees are less in no. compared to human

population but still as devotees togehter we are quiet big market to get

thing the way we need. We don't have to wait for making a group or

assotiation of devotees but we individually just stick to our demands and

spell it out to suppliers every time. If all devotees do it the message will

pass to manufactures.

 

My dear friend, Manger of Nigdi(Pune) preaching center removed all plastic

bags from shoe stall and replaced them with cloth bags. He was aware and did

the change. It cost him initially a bit but all the money went to a devotee

who stiched the bags and not to plastic bussiness. OVer all it was not

costly in long run.

 

I personally don't use plastic bags. I carry metal containers which are bit

heavy but light on karma.

 

Goodness is represented by knowledge. that is we have to be aware and

actually try to avoid such tainted items to the max.

 

I am one who raised the point about cow bones in film roles. Yet still I

might use them for taking photos to be printed in SP's books/BTG. But what I

was trying was when I see is for any incident or yatra etc there are 10's or

100's devotees clicking photos. How long these photos are used and in what

way of all the photos clicked being used. And after short time (1-3 months)

these photos are neglected and get a place in one corner latter to progress

to dustbin. Also so much of photos make us behave offensively towards them

by neglecting them throwing them here and there etc. Is our bhakti really

dependent on so many photos? My point being everything has utility but we

have to avoid extravanganza and its we devotees who have to raise awareness

amonst us. or will the non devotees who even have basic knowledge of

scriptures suppposed to do it. Or should we as devotees go on acting in

ignorance.

 

One last point. Going closer to nature doesn't always cost more in fact ti

saves overall. For eg I started using cow toothpowder for my brushing 4

years back. It costs me RS 15 for 5 months against tooth paste which used to

cost me RS 300 for same time.

 

How this awareness spreads. My own life experiences. I gave on plastics few

years back. (I support devotees especially foriegn who require bottled

water). I stoped using plastic bags and bottles in my life and instead had

metal comtainers and glass bottle. Whole of my ashram ridiculed me and

laughed at me but I perceived silently. After 3 years many are now following

me. SOme are still not but now they are quitened and know that I am right. I

don't need to make law but increase awareness. I even did not speak but I

carried on. Others just observed me and learnt. Sorry for telling about "I"

but I am telling real incident.

 

 

MY WHOLE POINT BEING YES KALIYUGA IS WIDESPREAD BUT ITS NO REASON TO NOT

INCREASE OUR KNOWLEDGE(AWARENESS) AND ACT ON IT AND SET AN E.G. FOR OTHERS

RATHER THAN ACCEPTING PRODUCTS TAINTED WITH BLOOD, VIOLENCE AND TORTURE.

 

IT WORKS. WE DON'T HAVE TO DECREASE PREACHING AND SERVICE FOR IT WE HAVE TO

SEARCH AND CREATE MARKET AND SUPPLY COMES.

 

Your Servant

Madan Gopal Das

 

Sorry for long letter but I just wanted to share. Actually I have cut it

quite short.

 

Also this exchange begining in holistic health forum even sticking to non

violent natural products help keep our health nicely.

 

If any one is offended please excuse me.

[Guest guest]

Text 13235 (125 lines)

Jayapataka Swami (GBC)

16-Jul-94 10:41 SST

Refernce: Text 12780 by Internet: Noma T. Petroff

Cow (Protection and related issues) [36],

FFL (Food For Life) [29],

(Arcana) Deity Worship [42]

pure_milk

---------------------------

CAMP: ISKCON Calcutta Rathayatra Festival. 16-Jul-

94

 

I don’t know how much of it strictly relates to

Deity worship, but it is certainly a part of Deity

worship to offer pure things to the Deities.

Raghava Pandit, the association of Lord Caitanya

Mahaprabhu, was glorified for his high standard of

Deity worship since he went to such lengths to get

the best ingredients for making offerings to his

Deities. Even though he had coconut trees growing

in his garden, if he heard there was a better

coconut in some distant village he would go there to

get fruits for his Deities.

 

In Sridham Mayapur Srila Prabhupada requested us to

grow all the things we offer to the Deities stating

that all things purchases contained elements of

karma and impurity. Growing the food for the Deity

was preferred. Since Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir

was a rural project at that time (I don’t know what

the future holds with town developing) it was

natural to grow everything. Srila Prabhupada gave

instructions to use gur (raw unrefined condensed

crystalized sugarcane juice) which we produced

ourselves in the Deity sweets. A pujari cook

objected that white sugar gave a higher quality of

sandesh, but Srila Prabhupada didn’t budge and said

to use gur anyway since it was pure. He said the

gur could be naturally made more refined by adding

milk to the hot sugar cane juice while producing the

gur and that would cause impurities to rise from the

gur and produce a more pure form of gur which could

be used with sweets and pasteries.

 

The reality is that most of our devotees who live on

farms don’t have much inclination, it seems, to work

the land or take care of cows. The prefer to live

in a suburban setting and buy food from the grocery

stores. It has been frustrating for me when trying

to get the devotees to grow food for offering to the

Deities. They aren’t really ready to make the

sacrifice for the Deity nor for their own food. If

there was a farm newsletter you could go on

preaching the way you were and hopefully devotees

would start to become more consistent with our

philosophy about their diet and habits. What can

the pujari’s do? They have to offer the best that

is available and if there is nothing else available

then store bought items what can they do? Its the

farm managers, ISKCON Managers, and devotees in

general who have more scope in changing the way we

live and get our food.

 

I don’t know if it is on FOLIO, but during Srila

Prabhupada’s bapu presence I definitly remember

hearing that someone had asked Srila Prabhupada

about using sugar and informing him that it was

refined in the west with bone filters. I heard that

His Divine Grace’s comment was, “In kali yuga

everything is impure.” Then he went on to instruct

that even a basicly pure thing like sugar has

impurities added. So what can we do? We have to

eat, and since everything we buy is having some

impurities then at least those things which normally

should be pure like vegetable products, milk, etc.

can be taken. I never specifically heard if anyone

informed Srila Prabhupada about cod liver oil being

added to milk. Of course, it is quite possible to

get milk in health food stores and from farms which

don’t have these additives.

 

I personally prefer not to eat western sugar and now

am a gur fan, but I don’t impose these preferences

on the temples since I don’t see how it would be

possible. In the west most temples tend to go for

natural unrefined sugar where it is available. For

Deity worship we should try to do the best we can,

but not get so extreme that we can’t make nice

offerings to the Deity.

 

The picture painted about offering ghee from a cow

that was already slaughtered is really graphic and

produced strong emotional responses to consider all

those graphic images. I doubt that Srila Prabhupada

would really want us to get into that level of

analysis. At least not to get the pujaris all

mental about it. Instead of thinking about Krishna

while doing a fire yajna we don’t want to be

meditating on departed cows. I think that aspect of

this discussion belongs on the cow protection

conference and more general forums, if anywhere.

 

You mentioned that the cow would benefit from

having its’ milk offered to Krishna. That is the

strongest point for not being a vegan. If we offer

the milk to Krishna then the cow can proceed forward

and at least be a human if not a higher birth or

liberation. How would we help the cow by not using

her products in Krishna’s service? It isn’t her

fault so why should we boycott her milk which was

given in motherly affection and love and deprive her

from the chance to gain spiritual benefit?

 

On the other hand, applying pressure in the market

for “non-violent” milk. Milk which is totally free

from culling the herd, from killing the old cows,

and from using products of animal slaughter houses

to feed the cows is a good move. Just like organic

vegetables (I don’t find any karma implication or

fault in the fact that they might use unmentionable

manures) have become popular, why not make non-

violent milk similarly popular. ISKCON could be a

major influence, if not a leader, in this area.

Anyway that is another topic which doesn’t belong on

Deity Worship conference. If non-violent milk is

available then obviously pujaris would prefer those

milk products for use with the Deities.

 

Thankyou for the strong statement for a varnasram

culture consciousness being promoted in and by

ISKCON. It will definitely make the Deities

happier.