Is God an atheist?

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> First of all I would like to say that I'm not claiming to be sure on the

> arguments I here presents. Like I said I find it very difficult to discuss

> Krishna's acintya-shakti.

 

acintya kalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet - that which is inconceivable

cannot be discussed in terms of human logic.

 

I don't from the exact Upanishad this quote is from.

 

> >> So when the atheist says God doesn't exist then it's true? I guess it

> >> is then. But at the same time it's also true that He exist.

>

> >Of course it is not true. How can it be true that God doesn't exist?

>

> Well, because all contradictions exist in God - including both His

> existence and His non-existence.

 

One of the definitions of God is that He sac-chit-ananda. If He is sat, how

can he not exist?

 

> >But >for the atheist He doesn´t exist.

>

> Here's how I think: God includes all possible contradictions, but when

> they are in Him they are in harmony, which means that in Him they are not

> contradictions at all. If this is true then it follows that the

> contradiction of Gods existence and His non-existence also exist in God,

> but in perfect harmony. So when the atheist says that God doesn't exist

> it's both true and false at the same time. However, the atheist can't give

> any good argument as to why God should not exist, because the atheist

> can't refer to Gods acintya-shakti without also recognizing the existence

> of God at the same time.

>

> Or?

 

Atheists don't accept that anything is acintya.

 

> >It's not a logical contradiction to say that if God is almighty He can

> >prove that He doesn't exist, just like He can prove He exists.

>

> As I see it almightyness is a logically contradictory term.

 

It is not as long as you accept almightyness. If you don't accept God's

almightyness it is a c ontradiction, but if you accept that God is almighty

there is nothing illogical about it.

 

>It leads to

> contradictions like "Can God create a stone so heavy He can't lift it?"

 

It is not a contradiction for God, because He can do both. It is only a

contradiction for the consitioned mind. Therefore Jiva Goswami says, that

the only way you can understand God, is to first accept He is inconceivable.

If you don't accept that you have no way of understanding God.

 

Therefore it is also a mistake to debate with atheists on THEIR terms. It is

a waste of time.

 

> On

> the other hand a person who's almighty also have the power to make

> almightyness non-contradictory, which is exactly what happens, as I see

> it, when He uses His virodha-bhanjiki-shakti (or acintya-shakti.) So in

> this material world they're contradictions, but in Krishna internal energy

> they're not.

 

Exactly, but even in the material world they are not contradictions if you

accept that God is almighty and absolute. If you don't accept that and

demands that God should be subjected to your 3-dimensional logic, then

everything is a contradiction.

 

> As I see it, the only way to argue againt atheistic arguments that point

> out logical contradictions in the concept "God" (that is contradictory

> from a material point of view) is to say that since God is beyond the laws

> of logic, then these arguments themselves are contradictory, because they

> state that an entity who is beyond logic can't exist because it's

> logically contradictory.

 

As I see it, the only way to argue with atheists is to absolutely refuse to

buy into their standards and definitions and limited conception of logic,

and only argue with them on our terms.

 

They may state that, 'an entity who is beyond logic can't exist because it's

logically contradictory,' but there is absolutely nothing logical about that

statement. It's not a logical argument, it is just an assertion. There is

nothing illogical about God being almighty.