face the problem positively focusing on spiritual life..

[Guest guest]

these below are quote helping 3 different brahmacaries with a personal lusty

problem and how to constructively combat it.

 

those who never suffer from this are blest indeed, for many people however,

this problem crops up from time to time, therefore these guidelines may help

others you know.

 

if so, consider keeping this on file...others can happily delete as they

like!

 

TridaNDi BhikSu, Bhakti Visrambha MAdhava

 

where like most western places are completely infatuated by lusty affairs

due to ladies dressing "most unfairly" as Srila Prabhupada once coined it.

 

but its a problem confined not only to westerners but extends to all over

the western society, advertisements etc, and even upto the heavenly planets,

also- all proclaim and promote trying to scratch this itching sensation...

 

....which Sp and all acaryas tell one should tolerate by all means, weather

married or not.

 

these are some suggestions for lifestyle adjustments, incorporating these

will help a lot.

 

 

1) women may or may not be innocent, yet one must volunterially stop seeing

them as enjoyable by you.

 

see SB 6.19.38-40-43. and SB 3.31.37- AND THE follow up SB 11.4.7, 11.4.10

 

2) Don't hate women, after all, they as everyone else, deserve protection

and encouragement to life and household life, which gives them strength for

KC later on after 40's are reached.

 

3) Especially, for iskcon, KC women deserve a special respect, protection

and the right to have husbands.. but not necessarily will a brahmacari agree

to marry them, "krsna will provide their husband- I will not get entrapped"

a brahmacari thinks.

 

4) don't eat at night after 6- 7 pm. if at all only fruit and light foods.

 

5) spiritualise the mind immediately before bedtime by hearing Krsna

katha-reading some spiritually inspiring topics.spritualise the mind (If too

tired and exhausted physically to read anything) by singing Gopinatha

bhajana, and reading the full translation, before one attempts to go to

bed-sleeping.

 

this is confirmed in SB 7.1.30 purport. SP states:

 

"As stated in ®r…mad-Bh€gavatam (10.33.39):

vikr…itaˆ vraja-vadh™bhir idaˆ ca viŠoƒ

raddh€nvito 'nuŠuy€d atha varŠayed yaƒ

bhaktiˆ par€ˆ bhagavati pratilabhya k€maˆ

hd-rogam €v apahinoty acireŠa dh…raƒ

If a bona fide listener hears of KŠa's pastimes with the gop…s, which seem

to be lusty affairs, the lusty desires in his heart, which constitute the

heart disease of the conditioned soul, will be vanquished, and he will

become a most exalted devotee of the Lord. If one who hears of the gop…s'

lusty behavior with KŠa becomes free from lusty desires, certainly the

gop…s who approached KŠa became free from all such desires. Similarly,

®iup€la and others who were very much envious of KŠa and who constantly

thought of KŠa became free from envy. Nanda Mah€r€ja and mother Yaod€

were fully absorbed in KŠa consciousness because of affection. When the

mind is somehow or other fully absorbed in KŠa, the material part is very

soon vanquished, and the spiritual part—attraction to KŠa—becomes

manifest. This indirectly confirms that if one thinks of KŠa enviously,

simply because of thinking of KŠa he becomes free from all sinful

reactions and thus becomes a pure devotee."

 

6) sp chanting softly on MP3 player volume low enough not to disturb sleep

but loud enough to stop lustly thoughts.

 

7) diet of a person aspiring to control lust, in daytime should be simple,

raw if possible with no fancy spices.no rich food or fancy cloth at all, if

one has lust, fancy food is totally banned! (see NOI quote from jagadananda

pandit sloka 1- 'bhalo na khaibe ara bhalo na paribe' verse.

 

8) when one is feeling a lusty dream and one wants to embrace the mental

desirable object out of lust, that is certainly a concoction of the mind.

(see SB 11.2.38).

 

instead of that so called imaginary form, transform this mental concoction

into a form of Lord Krsna one takes shelter of. (your deity, or Lord

Jaggannatha, (as the orriya devotees advise people at RY time to go ahead

and hug Lord Jaggannatha)...and then (since you originally wanted to embrace

something), go ahead and embrace this mentally conceived form of Lord Krsna.

 

I have personally done this, and found that immediately the burning lusty

desire in my heart was immediately cooled by this method. try this!!

 

9) for one suffering from lusty feeling due to self touching his/ her own

body. then absolutely no self bodily message / touching of private parts at

all, unless one is really aching and paining!

 

avoid this self touching with your hands scrupulously! as Cupid attacks in

these 5 ways.

 

10) wash your own cloth to see the black dirt caused by pirspiration, this

reminds you what constitutes this body.

 

11) if one is inclined to deity worship, consider loving service to a

personal deity form of the Lord who one can take shelter of especially to

drive out lust.

 

(sanat kumaro avatu kamadevad see SB 6th canto)

 

also see SB 3.25.35-36 for info on personal deities.

see SB 6.2.17 also.

 

12) if one falls down to masterbation, then one should pro actively force

oneself to memorise a verse about the pitfalls of bad association with the

opposite sex, (see Prabhodananda sarasvati's Vrndavana mahimamrta 15

chapter..also other verses.

 

13) read vairagya martanda (from wincom Brahmacari conference

 

14) open mind to friends/ siksa-diksa gurus about the problem.

 

15) know that there is no short cut quick fix, (marriage or not) one has to

try to love Krsna and SB-shastra for lasting satisfying solutions.

 

16) meditate on the consequences of losing semen, lusty attitude stops

progression of KC and promotes bad health.

 

17) see the 8 avenues of illicit sex from Matchless gifts booklet.

 

Sravanam, kirtanam, keli, guhyabashanam, prekshanam, sankalpo, adyavasayas,

kriya nivritir eva ca.

 

18) take ayurvedic medicines regularly for this problem until it comes under

control.

 

19) if one's sleeping area or another facility, encourages you "to rub" then

get away from a mattress or soft sleeping mat, and stick to grass floor mats

that are simple and have no comfort.

 

20) if all else fails, then I've often see that men, "get real" and make

concrete plans at any age, to get married...after all, there is nothing like

a dose of reality to make one become sober..

 

for one who is serious to maintain a good wife, a suitable chaste wife is an

oppulence. see Priyavrata's association with Barhismati in SB 5th canto.

 

note that SP says Brahmacaries and sannyasi's "do not need this type of

female encouragement" but generally most men *do need this* for their own

protection and encouragement, at least for 25-30 years of youthful life.

 

as per SB 9.23.31 pp

 

"In the M€rkaŠeya Pur€Ša the fourteen kinds of great jewels are described

as follows: (1) an elephant, (2) a horse, (3) a chariot, (4) a wife, (5)

arrows, (6) a reservoir of wealth, (7) a garland, (8) valuable costumes, (9)

trees, (10) a spear, (11) a noose, (12) jewels, (13) an umbrella, and (14)

regulative principles. "

 

first of all, despite women in materialistic societies dressing unfairly,

still that is the bodily conception of life, they are trained to flaunt

their bodies to attract men to become their servants.

 

still, one should see all jivas as Krsna's parts and parcels for His

enjoyment.

 

as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati says in Vaisnava ke.

 

"kaminera kama nahi tava dhama" to meditate on women is not your abode.

 

it is only for Madhava the husband of the goddess of fortune.

 

so try to stop seeing any scantily clad lady as a possible mental object of

your enjoyment.

 

the first glance at a so called attractive woman is innocent.

the second purposeful glance, is misuse of one's independence, and is

degrading.

 

the third glance is victimizing.

 

what are womens and men's bodies anyway?

 

as per SB 10.60th chapter and also SB 11.8th chapter (nothing but a bag of

flesh rotting before ones eyes, like mens bodies are similarly rotting)

 

While I happily quote this below verse to prove that "only Krsna can be the

untimate husband-shelter for all living entities who are His parts and

parcels, and ultimately only KC can please all living entities.. yet, I

agree with him that in Public we must be respectful to all who require to be

married in their conditioned lives, to protect and arrange their lives in

Krsna's service. so many householders are sincerely serving Krsna, yet

realistically, so many devotees in all ashramas suffer their karmas all due

to not increasing their love for Krsna, who alone can reduce the suffering

and give His love back to them!

 

Ujjvala says:

sphurada tanu taraìgä vardhitä nälpavelaù

sumadhura rasa rüpo durgamä vära päraù

jagati yuvatijätir nimnagä tvaà samüdras

tadiyam aghahara tväm eti sa vadhvinaiva

 

"My dear Krishna, O killer of Aghäsura, You have extended Your loving

affairs so much that You can be compared to the great ocean, which is

without limitations. At the same time, the young girls of the world, who are

all searching after the perfect lover, have become just like rivers running

into this ocean. Under the circumstances, all these rivers of young girls

may try to divert their courses to some other place, but at the end they

must come unto You." (Sri Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu 3.3.50)

 

Krsna krpa wrote:

 

>Some devotees submitted to me for possibly posting on Brahmacarya some

>advice for curing the problem of masturbation. See below:

 

> Additionally I found a quite helpful advises on the Mormon church site

> particularly meant for the problem. You can also check these on sites:

>

> http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba.htm

>

> http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast.htm

>

> Also I found one ayurvedic medicine which is meant for curing people

> suffering from the masturbation; it is called SPEMAN FORTE, De Himalaya

> Drug Company, Bangalore.

> It decreases sexual activities of corresponding centers, and pacifies mind

> when it is urgent. Only after taking the medicine for two months I found a

> strength to keep mind under control. They said it doesn t have bad

> effects, because it is natural herb product.

 

one devotee brahmacari told me that pumpkin seed extract is good for this.

also krsna tulasi root crushed to powder in milk helps.

 

> Now Baidyanath has medicines for this specifically. I may try it. But I

> went to the homoepathic doctor who sits in vrindavan temple and his

> medicines helped A LOT. It has almost cured me. It is just some small

> pills morning and evening but they are very effective and very cheap.

> Nowadays there are more medicines for this.

>

> It is still difficult to get up early, I only feel enough energy by 6 am.

> Hopefully things will improve.

 

try growing and drinking wheatgrass juice. that helped me and I intend to

return to drinking it within 15 days in vraja.

 

stay positive. one way is to preach to yourself. "I must rest early so i can

rise early- and when one wakes, preach to the mind. -Oh mind, Radha

rasabihari look very sweet in their mangala arati cloth, so I must go to see

them!

 

sita rama, L hanumana, will give me all protection from maya!

 

(this is per Madhya 22.34

 

sakåd eva prapanno yas

taväsméti ca yäcate

abhayaà sarvadä tasmai

dadämy etad vrataà mama

SYNONYMS

sakåt-once only; eva-certainly; prapannaù-surrendered; yaù-anyone who;

tava-Yours; asmi-I am; iti-thus; ca-also; yäcate-prays;

abhayam-fearlessness; sarvadä-always; tasmai-unto him; dadämi-I give;

etat-this; vratam-vow; mama-My.

TRANSLATION

"`It is My vow that if one only once seriously surrenders unto Me, saying

"My dear Lord, from this day I am Yours," and prays to Me for courage, I

shall immediately award courage to that person, and he will always remain

safe from that time on.'

PURPORT

This verse from the Rämäyaëa (Yuddha-käëòa 18.33) was spoken by Lord

Rämacandra.

Madhya 22.34

 

spiritual as well as mental. try cammomile tea it helps sedate you. also

before 7 pm drink one cup of your urine it also can sedate you as well.

 

one devotee wrote me before:

 

> Actually I had such bad habits in

> America that my health is severely affected. I had a very bad

> masturbation habit, it is really embarrassing! From age 13 to 19 I

> masturbated at least 2 times a day. It is unfortunate but destined I

> guess. Otherwise why would I start at age 13? I was always disturbed and

> then when I did it I could just go to sleep, so then it got into my

> schedule. Only when I was older I realized I should stop, so for a few

> months I tried then finally when I joined the temple I stopped completely.

> It wasn't something I actually thought about much, only now I am

> realizing the effects. Modern life is so unfortunate. So 6 years x 365

> days x 2 = over 4000 times I had willfully discharged semen. So how I am

> alive is only krishna's mercy.

 

1) some have stopped it only in the last few years by increasing my

memorization of SB and increasing Tulasi chaaya. chanting literally

underneith Her shade of Her branches.

 

see vrndadevi astakam verses 7 and 8.

 

more on Tulasi seva to destroy lust.

 

After Having had the chance and good fortune to serve her every day over the

years. I've noticed some interesting things in terms of the effects of her

association. Firstly just as the eyes can come into contact with the divine

attributes of the absolute truth through the deity form or paintings which

so nicely depicts the magnificence of Kåñëa, and His qualities and abode to

such an extent that one can verily experience in a subtle yet, perceivable

way , the presence of the divine attributes of the absolute truth. I feel

that in the same way this experience of Kåñëa's presence and the presence of

His pure devotees can be experienced in many different ways. In our

conditional state this is based on focusing the mind ,intelligence, senses

and body in relationship with serving and associating with Kåñëa and his

pure devotees.

After having spent considerable time in her association as in watering and

picking leaves and chanting before her I've noticed that her association can

change one in many ways as in Physically, mentally ,emotionally , and

spiritually. In the Srimad Bhagavatam it is mentioned that an advanced

devotee is like a crystal.

Anyone who comes into contact with the crystal, Vaisnava developes some of

the

reflected qualities due to association.

The best example relevant to this bhagavatam verse is the effect that Srila

Prabhupada has had on others.

In terms of the association of Srimate Tulasi Devi I've noticed that she can

change ones body, mind ,senses ,intelligence and also ones entire persona.

That

is of course relative to how much association one has had, ones desire and

also

occaisonal instantaneous krpa or mercy.

In the material world when a man associates with a women then he develops

through that association certain qualities.

Both men and women have certain relative qualities and potencies. This is

based

upon the reflection of the spiritual world.

In the spiritual world there is also some transcendental absolute difference

of

qualities and pontencies as in Radha and Krsna and these specific qualities

are

described in the NOD.

I've found that through associating and trying to serve Srimate Tulasi Devi

that

one is coming into contact with the divine womenly potency and qualities of

the absolute truth and that, that kind of association will gradually reflect

onto the heart. It is a natural consequence of such association. Just like

if

one associates with cows who are in the mode of goodness then one will

develop

more of that mode. In the same way if one associates with someone in the

mode

of passion the tendency is there to become swayed by passion.

I've found especially that through her association there is some degree of

development of womenly qualities. Which can act to pacify the desire to seek

out that association as in qualities and potency on the material platform

which

can at times be subject to lust or other inebrieties.

In terms of Srimate Tulasi Devi's association this is a relationship based

primarily on servitude.

I feel that her association and service which can be anything from watering,

Picking leaves, Chanting before her and praying etc. That this association

and

service is a very valuable shelter for anyone attempting to lead a more

spiritually progressive and renounced life. As a yogi, bhakti yogi should

attempt to become self satisfied atmarama. Of course other than other types

of

aspiring transcendentalists the bhakti yogi attempts this through devotional

service. Srimate Tulasi Devi's association is very much helpful in regards

to

trying to become more atmarama self satisfied as in devoid of material

desires.

As the tendency to desire womenly association is a very powerful tendency

which

I feel has the possibility of being curbed and at the same time met in an

absolute transcendental way based on service.

It is described in the Bhagavad Gita that the devotee takes shelter of the

divine nature

as in Srimate Radharani not exactly directly but through her representative

the

spiritual master. Who is acting on her behalf. So Srimate Tulasi Devi Is

very

much present before us as a Divine manifestation of an eternal feminine

servitor of Krsna the absolute truth. Being an eternal Gopi expansion of

Krsna

She is also one of the topmost sankirtan devotees always eager to try and

make

arrangments to help others to come closer to Krsna. So her association,

service

and mercy is a very valuable source of shelter and inspiration for anyone

wanting to return to the spiritual world.

 

Srimate Tulasi Devi Maharani Ki Jaya.

 

 

2) sing Gopinatha bhajana at night before resting and mediate on the

purport, that will soothe your heart emotions and direct you back to Lord

Gopinatha.

 

3) understand that "there is no woman in your room" see SB 11.2.38.

 

4)"ojho jivan" is ayurvedic medicine to thicken semen. look in matunga e. at

kotakal ayurveda shala. but I remember buying a jar of this ayurvedic jelly

for 200 gm in Bangalore for 75 rs in 1982.

 

5) "zandu co, "keshari jeevan" double strength chawan prash in milk*only in

the morning* as you can use the energy. but if you take it at night you;ll

get night fall as the food supplement is so rich.

 

6) see all jivas as "asraya" (those who need shelter of Krsna) instead of

"visaya" meant for one's own enjoyment.

 

if one sees jivas as for one's own enjoyment, then it turns into poison

"visa" so it is better to see all women and sense objects as for Krsna's

enjoyment only.

 

> He is merciful because I was innocent

> about it, but still I am suffering. It is strange how I could mess up my

> life so much by age 13 that I cannot practice the basics of Krishna

> consciousness.

>

> The last few years I would have regular discharges at night. Now the last

> 1 or 2 years it caused so much mental and physical weakness that I was

> really disturbed. Actually the last few months I was getting quite upset

> and crying a lot. If I got some private time or place I was always just

> crying. The only solace I have is that Srila Prabhupada is so merciful. I

> was really appreciating that. The last few days I am not so emotional.

 

Yes, in 1996 in Mayapura I cried my heart out to my deities, and KB embraced

me to comfort me, so yes Krsna is compassionate. we have to be fixed on

loving Him.

 

> Unfortunately I haven't attended mangal arati, guru puja or s.b. class for

> more than a month and I am living in the temple! I really don't have

> strength to wake up early anymore so I just sleep as much as my body

> needs. Everyone suggests sleeping early.

Yes. please shut off the world at 7:30 or 8 pm latest. try gopinatha

bhajana, chamomile herb tea to put you to sleep. even if you must, you can

use sleeping pills to knock you out, then set 2 alarms at 15 minutes apart,

and put them across the room from your bed so you have to get up and walk to

them to turn them off.

 

Incidentally, I do recommend you get a roommate so that He helps you

spiritually and materially. try to get someone you love, who you can

befriend,and read SB with.

 

I can't stress how much you should not sleep alone, you will not masterbate

if you think that your br partner will see it, You need that until you get

married.

 

> You use some of the urine fresh for massage and cleaning? I just take

> once in the morning.

 

no Siva says that old urine is used for message, the aut therapists say keep

some of each days urine in different marked bottles. the oldest (7th days)

you should cook down to 25% or less of original. use metel 1 5 litre

stainless steel container and an immersion heater, when the liquid is boiled

off, then tilt (lean)the container a cloth to make the remaining liquid

cover the whole of the imersion heater and continue cooking. it will take 2

;litres urine 3-4 hours at 220 vt to boil away down 75% off.

 

mix with scented oil and store it. it's that simple! and ecstatic. it

nourishes your skin and nervious system. you will really restore your

health by message 100%. don't shy from this! it's where the real benefit

lies...

 

your health has lost it's ojha, vigour due to masturbation, now regain it by

urine message and drinking 3-4 tumblers of your own urine.

 

scream the holy name and read SB! you must also remove the bodily concept by

KC, see SB 3.5.42-46.

 

> I am writing to you because I hae a serious problem which is my biggest

> stumbling block in spiritual life. By now you must know of what I am

> speaking...................masturbation. For near two years since

> initiation my mind was never gripped by this insane desire, but since a

> few months now the desire has come back and sometimes i engage in the

> gross act.

 

Bhakti vikas swami deals with this in his book "Brahmacarya in KC". do you

have it?.if not get it. check out the verses in that book quoting SB dealing

with lust etc. read and memorise them.

 

Satsvarupa maharaja deals with it in "obstacles on the path of ds" available

at Gita nagari press USA. get it!

 

vihe course by Jayadvaita Swami "overcoming material desires" gives

arguments deals with it from Shastra. order it via Vihe (on com).

 

or...ask for the file from "free forum" on com or from the brahmacarya

conference. go to the conference type "list files in brahmacarya', then

download it.

 

>After the incident I often feel suicidal, rotten, filthy,

> contaminated and other such things. I have many services which I attend to

> in my yatra (important ones) but this act cripples me. I feel very guilty

> and low as a result of this. I am very ashamed to reveal this to any of

> my, even confidential associated. I feel like amongst all my associates

> that I may be the only one suffering this disease.

 

Perhaps so many other devotees in your area are also suffering from it. You

definitely should reveal your mind to your guru and TP as well if it

continues.

 

>Everyone respects me as

> being a very fixed up devotee (a mantle which I have never felt

> confortable with) and this makes me even more ashamed of my nasty

> behaviour.

 

All the more important for you to be truthful about it.

 

This character is formed by rendering devotional service submissively in the

close shelter of devotees.

 

Please try to keep your sadhana nicely, by chanting 16 rounds of japa, doing

arati to Gaura Nitai.

 

Reading Srimad Bhagavatam and associating regularly at least once or twice

weekly in a very active way with the other devotees in your area.

 

we must remain devotionally accountable to devotees if we are to advance on

this process of devotional service.

 

In the Garua Pur€Ša it is stated,

 

vieataƒ svottameu vin€ sa‰gaˆ na mucyate

sva-n…ceu tu deveu vin€ sa‰gaˆ na p™ryate

 

“One cannot be liberated without association with a pure devotee of the

Lord. And unless one shows mercy to those in an inferior position, one’s

life will be superficial.”

 

from the verse from Garuda Purana as quoted in SB 11.3.23 purport "visesatah

sva uttamesu" (What I've understood) This devotional accountability is 3

fold:

 

(1) accountability to hear from and follow in one's own life the

instructions of the previous acharyas in Srimad Bhagavatam, Caitanya

Caritamrita, Bhakti RAsamrita Sindhu etc as given By Srila Prabhupada.

 

(2) Accountability to Srila Prabhupada's instructions in his

books/letters/lectures, as well as those similar pertainent instructions

given in the same mood and way by the present Iskcon Siksa-diksa gurus. This

is essential for a normal devotionally inspiring lifestyle and practically

executing the same in one's own life.

 

(3) Accountability to one's subordinate devotees locally whom you are trying

to assist in their fragile budding of their KRsna Consciousness, by setting

a humble and proper example in terms of above (1&2) for them to follow.

 

pram€Šais tat-sad-€c€rais tad-abhy€sair nirantaram

bodhayan €tman€tm€naˆ bhaktim apy uttam€ˆ labhet

SYNONYMS

pram€Šaiƒ—by scriptural evidence; tat—of them; sat-€c€raiƒ—by theistic

conduct; tat—of them; abhy€saiƒ—by practice; nirantaram—constantly;

bodhayan—awakening; €tman€—by one’s own intelligence; €tm€nam—the self;

bhaktim—devotion; api—certainly; uttam€m—the highest; labhet—one can attain.

TRANSLATION

The highest devotion is attained by slow degrees by the method of constant

endeavor for self-realization with the help of scriptural evidence, theistic

conduct and perseverance in practice.

PURPORT

Evidence—the devotional scriptures, e.g., ®r…mad-Bh€gavatam, the Vedas, the

Pur€Šas, the G…t€, etc. Theistic conduct—the conduct of pious persons

(s€dhus) who are pure devotees and the conduct of those pious persons who

practice devotion to Godhead actuated by spontaneous love. Practice—to learn

about the ten basic principles (daa-m™la) from the €stras and on receiving

the name of Hari as laid down in the same, embodying the name, form, quality

and activity of the Divinity. to practice the chanting of the name by

serving Him night and day. By this are meant study of the €stras and

association with the s€dhus. The tenfold offense to holy name ceases by

serving the name of Hari and simultaneously practicing pious conduct.

“Practice” is no other than following the mode of service of the name

practiced by the s€dhus without offense. By perseverance in such practice

and devotion characterized by love which is the fruit of spiritual endeavor

makes her appearance in the pure essence of the soul.

Bs 5.59

 

============ REF. Bs 5.59

 

I'd say talk with Guru and TP about it, otherwise *maybe* in the future,

you'll end up leaving your 'fixed up' position because of embarrasment, and

inability to face up to realities.

 

Why not first try to deal with it internally, if it doesn't work and you

still suffer, then get real to others- tell them all.. and get married.

 

what's wrong with getting married if you're lusty? the "reality" will sober

anyone, women are no joke to relate with, maintain, give children to, who'll

you'll jointly have to educate to be KC etc. it's a reality that stops lust

by putting so much practical responsibility "bricks" on your head!

 

pl. answer the above nicely and I'll try to help you more when I get the

"long" letter back.

 

>I am not going to confide in any person whom I associate with

> in my yatra.

 

A very bad idea! you must reveal it to your TP and Guru first thing,

otherwise you are not being real!

 

>I am therefore seeking your association in a last a desperate

> attemp to reassemble some semblence of my spiritual life.

 

think about your options nicely. increase your krsna smarana and attachment

to Krishna, then Krsna destroys lust. if you don't do that, by reducing your

managerial responsibilities or balancing better your hearing and chanting

with your preaching etc, then you should get married as last resort.

 

If you can't get married, because you don't want the hassles, then you have

no choice but to increase your hearing chanting and therefore less

involvement in management, work aholic etc.

 

> My desire is to become a devotee of Mahaprabhu and sincerely serve his

> mission ie Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON Society. This is my desire to become

> a pure devotee of Krsna and his devotees. This habit will not help me. All

> it does is bring shame to the entire parampara. I feel myself useless to

> battle this enemy of my insatiable desire to masturbate. It does not

> happen often, but I think that one time is too many times.

 

IF I were you I would not 'flip out' or let this get you so depressed,

so much. I've known many people who admitted to me, that they masterbated

now and then for a while, but after they increased their KC and chanting

Gopinath bhajan "while hot-lusty" then gradually it went down and they

became ok.

 

with other cases I heard of, nothing worked besides getting married then

trying to increase KC within marriage life. married or not, KC is the only

thing that works ultimately. no short cut, you have to genuinely "love

KRsna" then when He sees your sincerity, he protects, educates from within

and without, you, etc.

 

>I know all the

> philosophy and everything, the dangers of it all, the detriment ot my

> spiritual life, and so many other reasons and argument swhy I should not

> do it but for those few second I feel utterly powerless ot stop this deed.

 

another good book is "brahmacarya" by Swami Sivananda (I got it at their

sivananda ashram in Hyderabad 10 years ago).

 

It's well written. I say 'get it! for brahmacarya is a material situation

one may put oneself in conductive to a spiritual practice. therefore,

mayavadi or vaisnava, brahmacarya is brahmacarya bas. even from a

householder and medical point of view he discusses celebacy.

 

get it and read it!

 

deal with it as above, there is no other way except increase your attachment

to KC and SB etc. Friendship with senior sadhus is often helpful and

crucial.

 

> I therefore fall at your feet and beg thee to help me to become a better

> devotee. If i cannot follow the 4 regulative principles what is the use of

> my wearing dhoti, tilak and other symbols of a vaisnava.

 

yes, but since we are all conditioned by our senses we have to "get real"

and go to the proper persons and ashrama where we can prosecute KC properly.

 

I understand your embarrassment, but you have to pray to Krsna, and work on

your absorption in Him by cracking down on your wasting time. don't

forget..a person is "better then some, worse then others" therefore, no

matter what, don;t give up the marks of a vaisnava.

 

if you can't get so tight to make all these gradual or radical changes in

your life, then "get real" talk to TP, guru, and *maybe* get married.. In

order to help you figure out if that's needed or not, I suggest you also

check your astrology chart to see if this is just "a temporary wind or

phase'or..

 

you're going thru a strong long lasting venus period wherein you are

destined to be married. if you need to get married, then make sure you do so

using astrology to check compatibility with a "girl"--"a specific

permutation of the 3 modes of material nature packaged just for you'. If you

don't check compatibility statis before marriage, then expect that otherwise

you'll have "hell on wheels' baba!

 

I know some good Iskcon astrologers if you want, there is nothing like

getting a vaisnava's "tika"or commentary on your life chart.

 

these things will help you decide, and thus live up to reality instead of

feeling guilty about it all the time.

 

gratis for posting about the ladies leading kirtan quote from Lokanath

swami's book. It is a fact that sometimes brahmacari temple leaders are

under considerable public preassure to allow talented women singers and

dancers in their temple area to serve the Lord/ the grihastha public with

their talents. examples are Janmastami, RAdhastami, etc festivals in the

west, and now in India too sometimes the devotee girls\women want to sing

and dance in front of the deity.

 

the Grihastha devotees/ children\public like it very much and as thus it is

really evolved to become a fixed part of public festivals and yearly goes

right into the schedule planning.

 

What should the brahmacaries (managers) and sannyasi's do--It is really a

delicate situation. walking a tightrope as it were...personally renunciates

may allow it to go on in restricted ways, but personally renunciates should

not allow themselves to see it with their own eyes.

 

> I have a question that follows from this quote regarding kirtans:

>

> What are brahmacaris supposed to do when women lead kirtans in the temple

> or on Harinam, as Srila Prabhupada sometimes asked them to (example: he

> told mother Yamuna to lead kirtan occasionally) ? Should they leave the

> place or stay?

 

read on if you like...

 

"It is still a risk. How many instances are their of divorces, elopements,

grihastha's \ and attracted brahmacaries\and even 'so-called Sannyasi's'

have in the past, been seen to have run off with others wives etc.

 

Although the majority of grihastha devotees are chaste to each other. On the

other hand- still these public singing and dancing, can agitate the minds of

the impure or the innocent's mind can be carried off. If this risk is there,

This being the possibility, or inevitability---why should the trainers\well

wishers of brahmacaries put them in a provocative situation that practically

invites their spiritual death in terms of their ability to carry out their

brahmacari vrata?

 

therefore, better,"out of sight-out of mind".

 

durvära indriya kare viñaya-grahaëa

däravé prakåti hare munerapi mana

SYNONYMS

durvära—uncontrollable; indriya—the senses; kare—do;

viñaya-grahaëa—accepting sense objects; däravé prakåti—a wooden statue of a

woman; hare—attracts; munerapi—even of a great sage; mana—the mind.

TRANSLATION

“So strongly do the senses adhere to the objects of their enjoyment that

indeed a wooden statue of a woman attracts the mind of even a great saintly

person.Antya 2.118

 

Prabhupada's purport.

 

The senses and the sense objects are so intimately connected that the mind

of even a great saintly person is attracted to a wooden doll if it is

attractively shaped like a young woman. The sense objects, namely form,

sound, smell, taste and touch, are always attractive for the eyes, ears,

nose, tongue and skin. Since the senses and sense objects are naturally

intimately related, sometimes even a person claiming control over his senses

remains always subject to the control of sense objects. The senses are

impossible to control unless purified and engaged in the service of the

Lord. Thus even though a saintly person vows to control his senses, the

senses are still sometimes perturbed by sense objects.

 

"Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu taught His principles through four chief followers.

Among them, Rämänanda Räya is exceptional, for through him the Lord taught

how a devotee can completely vanquish the power of Cupid. By Cupid’s power,

as soon as one sees a beautiful woman he is conquered by her beauty. Çré

Rämänanda Räya, however, vanquished Cupid’s pride. Indeed, while rehearsing

the Jagannätha-vallabha-näöaka he personally directed extremely beautiful

young girls in dancing, but he was never affected by their youthful beauty.

Çré Rämänanda Räya personally bathed these girls, touching them and washing

them with his own hands, yet he remained calm and passionless, as a great

devotee should be. Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu certified that this was possible

only for Rämänanda Räya.CC Ädi 10.84"

 

"Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu said, “Although I am a sannyäsé, My mind is

sometimes perturbed when I see a woman. But Rämänanda Räya is greater than

Me, for he is always undisturbed, even when he touches a woman.” Only

Rämänanda Räya was endowed with the prerogative to touch a woman in this

way; no one should imitate him. Unfortunately, there are rascals who imitate

the activities of Rämänanda Räya. We need not discuss them further.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Ädi 10.134"

 

the whole lila is described in Antya 5.11 to antya 5.58.

 

the conclusion is that one whose mind is totally immersed in KRsna day and

night with no other thoughts becomes transcendental to the bodily platform

by absolute unswerving absorption in Krsna katha.

 

thus their platform, can't be imitated by those like us who are far from

being thus absorbed. we have to be carefull.

among the whole conversation in CC, especially this verse is noteworthy.

 

Antya 5.20

sevya-buddhi äropiyä karena sevana

sväbhävika däsé-bhäva karena äropaëa

SYNONYMS

sevya-buddhi äropiyä-considering worshipable; karena sevana-engages in

service; sväbhävika-by his natural position; däsé-bhäva-as a maidservant;

karena äropaëa-considers.

TRANSLATION

Çréla Rämänanda Räya used to act in that way because he thought of himself

in his original position as a maidservant of the gopés. Thus although

externally he appeared to be a man, internally, in his original spiritual

position, he considered himself a maidservant and considered the two girls

gopés.

PURPORT

Çréla Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura writes in his Amåta-praväha-bhäñya: "Çréla

Rämänanda Räya composed a drama named Jagannätha-vallabha-näöaka, and he

engaged two young girls who were professional dancers and singers to

demonstrate the ideology of the drama. Such girls, who are called

deva-däsés, are still employed in the temple of Jagannätha, where they are

called mähärés. Çré Rämänanda Räya engaged two such girls, and because they

were meant to play the parts of gopés, he taught them how to awaken thoughts

like those of the gopés. Because the gopés are worshipable personalities,

Rämänanda Räya, who considered the two girls gopés and himself their

maidservant, engaged in their service by massaging their bodies with oil to

cleanse them completely. Because Rämänanda Räya always placed himself in the

position of a maidservant of the gopés, his rehearsal with the girls was

actually on the spiritual platform."

Because there was no question of personal sense gratification when Çré

Rämänanda Räya was serving the girls, his mind was steady and his body

untransformed. This is not to be imitated, nor is such a mentality possible

for anyone but Çré Rämänanda Räya, as Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu will explain.

The example of Çré Rämänanda Räya is certainly unique. The author of Çré

Caitanya-caritämåta has given this description because in perfect devotional

service one can attain such a position. Nevertheless, one must understand

this subject very seriously and never attempt to imitate such activities."

 

so--

 

Only Ramananda raya could associate with deva dasi's. i.e. train them,

message their bodies with oil etc. He saw their transcendental bodies not

the material ones. Mahaprabhu acknowledged RR's transcendental vision and

said, "he's advanced- If I see the wooden doll form of a women, I become

agitated!" so Mahaprabhu clearly has shown that although grihasthas (if they

are as advanced as RR or Nara-Narayana rsi) they may risk seeing Women sing

and dance.

 

It is still a risk. How many instances are their of divorces, elopements,

grihastha's \ and attracted brahmacaries\and even 'so-called Sannyasi's'

have in the past, been seen to have run off with others wives\or young

unmarried girls\women- etc.

 

Although the majority of grihastha devotees are chaste to each other. On the

other hand- still these public singing and dancing, can agitate the minds of

the impure or the innocent's mind can be carried off, why should the

trainers\well wishers of brahmacaries put them in a provocative situation

that practically invites their spiritual death in terms of their ability to

carry out their brahmacari vrata?

 

therefore, better,"out of sight-out of mind".

 

at the same time Bharat natyam is traditional, cultural and can be offered

tastefully to Krsna Bhagavan. Why stop it if done nicely? Yet who knows what

evil lurks in the mind of lusty persons, both mail and females?

 

there are so many accounts in Puranas \Mahabharata of celestial dancers

getting attracted to each other and getting cursed by demigods for being

lusty. (Narada muni mentions his life as Upabarhana in SB 7.15.69-73 (the

detail is in Brahma vaivarta purana,).

 

that being quoted, I personally think that it will depend on the purity and

mentality of the individual concerned. we should encourage the women

devotees talent to sing\ dance in front of grihasthas, the deity, and

ordinary people.

 

In the west, women singing\dancing may not raise any eyebrows. (yet still My

opinion is that BR & Sannyasis should not be there at all if the women-girls

do sing\dance in the west during sunday feasts etc. or if the men do watch

it, it is only at their individual devotional peril).

 

In India, however, the tradition is that in temples, (as seen in VRndavana

too) women play Harmonium and sing only when *only* groups of women are

present, not in mixed company. In no temple in vrndavana, I;ve seen will the

women sing in public.

 

Hema malini did do professional plays to finance Agra Rathayatra a few years

ago (all women and men tastfully conservatively dresses) yet still I

remember HH Gopal Krsna Swami was talking with me, so many times asking, "I

don't know if I should be here watching this!" He must of complained to me,

10 times.

 

Yet, I'm sure in those UK days (some brahmacaries) appreciated Yamuna

matajis sincerity. after all the govinda tape where Yamuna Mataji is singing

is Iskcon standard while greating the deities everywhere.

 

It is so common to Hear Her voice singing on the tape, I doubt it agitates

any males mind anymore...if at all.

 

In Rostov Russia in 1997, Once some small girls 10-15 years old (came

requesting me) that they wanted to offer my Krsna Balarama deities the

fruits of their bharat natyam training.

 

So I agreed to let them serve the Lords to their full satisfaction-But I

told them, 'I'm not allowed to come see it due to my vratas' the girls were

happy, and not at all offended that I did not stay to watch them personally.

 

I let them enter my room (which was not in the brahmacari area, but in a

rather public area of the temple-I was not there during the performance), I

prayed and requested the Lords to enjoy it. I left... Let the Lord's enjoy

their dancing, and when they left my room, I (outside in other rooms talking

to other guests who had questions) thanked the girls, (to encourage their

service and for their training other girls etc).

 

But non-the-less, I feel that during such performances it must be let known

(warning!) to the brahmacaries and sannyasis in advance of such singing

timings that they are not encouraged (or even prohibited by brahmacary

leaders-TP's etc) from attending.

 

Also, I feel, THe public should see with their own eyes all the saffron clad

fellows leaving before the performance. This will send a proper message to

all, even the Girls-that their dancing, although cultural ok, has no place

in the lives of renunciates...

 

It does not disrespect the girls service attitude or training, yet it does

not risk/ or compromise the brahmacarya and sannyasa vratas either...

fair enough?

 

TridaNDi BhikSu, Bhakti Visrambha MAdhava