Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new students to stand and..... Prof: So you believe in God? Student: Absolutely, sir. Prof: Is God good? Student: Sure. Prof: Is God all-powerful? Student: Yes. Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm ? Student: (Student is silent.) Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good? Student: Yes. Prof: Is Satan good? Student: No. Prof: Where does Satan come from? Student: From.....God... Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student: Yes. Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? Student : Yes . Prof : And God did make everything. Correct? Student: Yes. Prof: So who created evil? Student: (Student does not answer.) Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student: Yes, sir. Prof: So, who created them? Student: (Student has no answer.) Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God? Student: No, sir. Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? Student: No , sir. Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter? Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't. Prof: Yet you still believe in Him? Student: Yes. Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student: Nothing. I only have my faith. Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has. Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Prof: Yes. Student: And is there such a thing as cold? Prof: Yes. Student: No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.) Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.) Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness? Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man? Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how? Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Student : Now tell me, Professor , do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.) Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, Sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher ? (The class is in uproar.) Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.) Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir ? (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.) Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. Student: That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive The student was.......... "Albert Einsten" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Hare Krishna PAMHO I wish to read conversations like what you can find below - arguments - contra-arguments. ARd Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:41 -0500 "Vrindavan Enterprises" <Vrindavan.Enterprises (AT) pamho (DOT) net> "Ganga IDS" <Ganga.IDS (AT) pamho (DOT) net>, "(Temple) Radhadesh (Belgium)" <Radhadesh (AT) pamho (DOT) net>, "(Krsna) Katha" <Katha (AT) pamho (DOT) net> CC: "Benelux Free Forum" <Benelux.Free.Forum (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Albert einsten An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new students to stand and..... Prof: So you believe in God? Student: Absolutely, sir. Prof: Is God good? Student: Sure. Prof: Is God all-powerful? Student: Yes. Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm ? Student: (Student is silent.) Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good? Student: Yes. Prof: Is Satan good? Student: No. Prof: Where does Satan come from? Student: From.....God... Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student: Yes. Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? Student : Yes . Prof : And God did make everything. Correct? Student: Yes. Prof: So who created evil? Student: (Student does not answer.) Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student: Yes, sir. Prof: So, who created them? Student: (Student has no answer.) Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God? Student: No, sir. Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? Student: No , sir. Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter? Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't. Prof: Yet you still believe in Him? Student: Yes. Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student: Nothing. I only have my faith. Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has. Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Prof: Yes. Student: And is there such a thing as cold? Prof: Yes. Student: No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.) Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.) Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness? Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man? Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how? Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Student : Now tell me, Professor , do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.) Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, Sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher ? (The class is in uproar.) Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.) Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir ? (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.) Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. Student: That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive The student was.......... "Albert Einsten" ----------------------- Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Pamho, agtSP! Unfortunately I don't have any of such conversation with arguments and counter arguments. I'm quite sceptical about Einstein being the student. Is there any proof for that? I saw that text in many different versions. Here's some information, from the Internet, about Albert Einsteins view of God: --------------------- Did Albert Einstein Believe in a Personal God? by Rich Deem I get a fair amount of e-mail about Albert Einstein's quote1 on the homepage of Evidence for God from Science, so I thought it would be good to clarify the matter. Atheists object to the use of the quote, since Einstein might best be described as an agnostic.2 Einstein himself stated quite clearly that he did not believe in a personal God: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." So, the quick answer to the question is that Einstein did not believe in a personal God. It is however, interesting how he arrived at that conclusion. In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized that the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. He didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought one would have to conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he added a cosmological constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of the beginning. He said this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. Of course, the results of Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was expanding and had a beginning at some point in the past. So, Einstein became a deist - a believer in an impersonal creator God: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." It is the second part of the quote that reveals the reason Einstein rejected the existence of a personal God. Einstein compared the remarkable design and order of the cosmos and could not reconcile those characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth? Einstein's failure to understand the motives of God are the result of his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect physically. However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity. It would not be possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good choices. Einstein didn't seem to understand that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. It's amazing that such a brilliant man could not understand such a simple logical principle. These days, those who fail to understand the purpose of evil not only reject the concept of a personal God, but also reject the concept of God's existence altogether. If you are an agnostic or atheist, my goal for you would be to recognize what Albert Einstein understood about the universe - that its amazing design demands the existence of a creator God. Then, go beyond Einstein's faulty understanding of the purpose of the universe and consider the Christian explanation for the purpose of human life and why evil must exist in this world. --------------------- Ys, AKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 > Pamho, agtSP! > > Unfortunately I don't have any of such conversation with arguments and > counter arguments. > > I'm quite sceptical about Einstein being the student. Is there any proof > for that? I saw that text in many different versions. > > Here's some information, from the Internet, about Albert Einsteins view of > God: Which, of course, we also cannot trust. It's just hear say ys, jdd > Did Albert Einstein Believe in a Personal God? > by Rich Deem > > I get a fair amount of e-mail about Albert Einstein's quote1 on the > homepage of Evidence for God from Science, so I thought it would be good > to clarify the matter. Atheists object to the use of the quote, since > Einstein might best be described as an agnostic.2 Einstein himself stated > quite clearly that he did not believe in a personal God: > > "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a > lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal > God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." > > So, the quick answer to the question is that Einstein did not believe in a > personal God. It is however, interesting how he arrived at that > conclusion. In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized that > the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. He > didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought one would have to > conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he added a cosmological > constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of the beginning. He said > this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. Of course, the results of > Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was expanding and had a beginning > at some point in the past. So, Einstein became a deist - a believer in an > impersonal creator God: > > "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of > what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of > human beings." > > It is the second part of the quote that reveals the reason Einstein > rejected the existence of a personal God. Einstein compared the remarkable > design and order of the cosmos and could not reconcile those > characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. > How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth? > > Einstein's failure to understand the motives of God are the result of his > incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate > perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are > present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal > God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect > physically. However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the > universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a > place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God - to live > with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart > from Him for eternity. It would not be possible to make this choice in a > universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good choices. > Einstein didn't seem to understand that one could not choose between good > and bad if bad did not exist. It's amazing that such a brilliant man could > not understand such a simple logical principle. > > These days, those who fail to understand the purpose of evil not only > reject the concept of a personal God, but also reject the concept of God's > existence altogether. If you are an agnostic or atheist, my goal for you > would be to recognize what Albert Einstein understood about the universe - > that its amazing design demands the existence of a creator God. Then, go > beyond Einstein's faulty understanding of the purpose of the universe and > consider the Christian explanation for the purpose of human life and why > evil must exist in this world. > --------------------- > > Ys, AKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 >> Pamho, agtSP! >> >> Unfortunately I don't have any of such conversation with arguments and >> counter arguments. >> >> I'm quite sceptical about Einstein being the student. Is there any proof >> for that? I saw that text in many different versions. > >> Here's some information, from the Internet, about Albert Einsteins view >>of >> God: >>Which, of course, we also cannot trust. It's just hear say There's a difference though. That in the text I presented you can find quotes which also exist many other places. All wih reference to Einstein. This STORY however, I saw that in many differernt versions. The versions usually adapted to suit different religions and the names are changed. Most of them doesn't mention Einstein at all. Ys, AKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 > >>Which, of course, we also cannot trust. It's just hear say > > There's a difference though. That in the text I presented you can find > quotes which also exist many other places. All wih reference to Einstein. > > This STORY however, I saw that in many differernt versions. The versions > usually adapted to suit different religions and the names are changed. > Most of them doesn't mention Einstein at all. I always hear conflicting stories about Einstein. I heard he didn't to the Christian notion of a personal God, but that he definitely believed in a higher power in the universe. That's at least what he comes across like in his discussions with Nils Bohr. He is also quoted on the back of the Danish Bhagavad gita as saying something like, the only thing I wonder about, when I read the Bhagavad Gita, is how God created the universe. But still the fact remains that most of the great thinkers, philosophers and scientists down through history have always been theists. It is simply less intelligent to be an atheist. ys, jdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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