Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Posted by Yaduraja on Feb 24, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP!

You wrote:

 

> I do not accept ISKCON’s gurus are proven to be authorized representatives

> of God.

 

Jai!! Neither do we! Now we’re motoring!

 

In fact your position is very similar to ours is it not? You have rejected

your bogus ISKCON ‘guru’ and now only have Srila Prabhupada left as your

sole guru, and sing to him every guru-puja that he is your lord and master,

birth after birth, and is giving you divya jnana (the very definition of

diksa). Furthermore you teach that ISKCON’s ‘gurus’ are not proven to be

authorised. If everyone had your philosophy we’d be practically home and

dry. You are just a bit confused about what the term diksa means, but apart

from that you are practically a ritvik. Don’t worry, I won’t tell anyone.

 

> If you conclude the opposite, then your conclusion is wrong. You should

> have written "It seems you accept ..." or "I understood that you accept

> ..." or similar. Then I would not have objected. But "yet clearly you do"

> is definitely wrong.

 

No, my logic was definitely correct, based on what you had written. You

wrote that Harikesa is your guru. Now you have corrected that position to

state he is not your guru. That is the complete opposite. My logic was

correct based on what you had previously stated. This debate is based on

what you or I state in writing on this forum, not on what is in our minds or

dreams, did you not realise that?

 

But there is still clearly some confusion in your mind since you claimed he

gave you ‘diksa’. If you really think this is the case then you still must

believe that at some point in time Harikesa was authorised. If you accept he

was authorised then logically you must accept all diksa gurus as equally

authorised since they were all authorised via exactly the same bogus system.

So I could argue that even given your latest position change you would still

need, logically, to accept all ISKCON gurus as equally authorised. The only

way I would be wrong is if you had said that Harikesa was never your diksa

guru. This is certainly the case spiritually and philosophically, yet you

stated the opposite, and even now maintain he gave you ‘diksa’. So I still

do not accept your accusation, even given your complete U turn on Harikesa

being your guru. Your position on this is highly self-contradictory.

You said:

 

> I agree that according to your philosophy you can conclude it.

 

Now why did you have to go and do that? You are now implying I have my own

philosophy, whereas I am simply repeating Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. So

now you'll have to explain exactly why you think this is ‘my’ philosophy as

opposed to Srila Prabhupada’s? See, its you who is always holding things up.

> I retract any accusations that you consider unfair.

 

But you have just re-asserted your origianl accusation, and implied I have

my own philosophy. You have simply delayed things further. It is thus you

who is holding things up.

 

After we sort out the above I shall still reply to your other unfair

accusations since you may try to re-assert them at some later point. If you

intend to retract them all as we go through them the process will not take

very long, but I want to be systematic.

 

I think most readers agree with point a) if you want my honest appraisal.

But we will come to your latest brilliantly cunning argument in due course

if you do not waste yet more time defending the indefensible and making yet

more accusations that will need to be rebutted. So it’s really up to you how

rapidly we move towards your latest, newest argument.

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu