HG Amogha-virya Prabhu

[Guest guest]

Live from Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir!

 

March 9, 2006

Verse: Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.35

Speaker: HG Amogha-virya Das

__

 

 

bhagavan sarva-bhutesu

laksitah svatmana harih

drsyair buddhy-adibhir drasta

laksanair anumapakaih

 

 

(Before reading the translation and purport, I'd like to introduce myself

with a short story. My name is Amogha-virya. When I arrived here in the

middle of January, I was a little depressed thinking, "I will never become

Krsna conscious. It is too big a job for me. I will never be successful.

Right away thedDeities here gave me realisation some jobs are too big for

one person, but I am not alone. There are many devotees here. They will help

me. Right away I was seeing that if I have a sincere desire and these

devotees help me, it can be done. By the same way, we have today a long and

challenging purport. By your mercy, we can have a nice successful Bhagavatam

class.

 

So the translation and the purport by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami Prabhupada):

 

 

TRANSLATION: The Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krsna is in every living

being along with the individual soul. And this fact is perceived and

hypothesized in our acts of seeing and taking help from the intelligence.

 

PURPORT: The general argument of the common man is that since the Lord is

not visible to our eyes, how can one either surrender unto Him or render

transcendental loving service unto Him? To such a common man, here is a

practical suggestion given by Srila Sukadeva Gosvami as to how one can

perceive the Supreme Lord by reason and perception. Actually the Lord is not

perceivable by our present materialized senses, but when one is convinced of

the presence of the Lord by a practical service attitude, there is a

revelation by the Lord's mercy, and such a pure devotee of the Lord can

perceive the Lord's presence always and everywhere. He can perceive that

intelligence is the form-direction of the Paramatma plenary portion of the

Personality of Godhead. [pauses purport]

 

 

(". . . intelligence is the form-direction of the Paramatma plenary portion

of the Personality of Godhead." Prabhupada here is starting with the

conclusion that intelligence is the form-direction of the Paramatma plenary

portion of the Personality of Godhead. And now through the more than two

pages left, he is going to explain this. Only yesterday it was said that

Brahma read the Vedas three times. This is not for nothing. In this

difficult purport, Prabhupada is challenging his audience quite a bit here

to follow this very carefully. Now he will explain.)

 

 

[continuing purport] The presence of Paramatma in everyone's company is not

very difficult to realize, even for the common man. The procedure is as

follows. One can perceive one's self-identification and feel positively that

he exists. He may not feel it very abruptly, but by using a little

intelligence, he can feel that he is not the body. He can feel that the

hand, the leg, the head, the hair and the limbs are all his bodily parts and

parcels, but as such the hand, the leg, the head, etc., cannot be identified

with his self. Therefore just by using intelligence he can distinguish and

separate his self from other things that he sees. [pauses purport]

 

 

(Prabhupada has not used the word consciousness here. He frequently uses the

word consciousness, that consciousness is the symptom of the soul. He also

doesn't use the word soul in this paragraph. He is taking about seeing. It

was easier for me if I thought of the word conscious, to be conscious of

one's head, one's hands. One is conscious I have a hand, I have a leg, they

are different from myself, the soul.)

 

 

[continuing purport] Therefore just by using intelligence he can distinguish

and separate his self from other things that he sees. So the natural

conclusion is that the living being, either man or beast, is the seer, and

he sees besides himself all other things. So there is a difference between

the seer and the seen. Now, by a little use of intelligence we can also

readily agree that the living being who sees the things beyond himself by

ordinary vision has no power to see or to move independently. [pauses

purport]

 

 

(This is also referred in Bhagavad-gita 15.15. The Lord says, "I am seated

in everyone's heart and from me comes memory, knowledge and forgetfulness."

They are not ours independently. These are supplied to us as we are

completely dependent on the Lord for all these things.)

 

 

[continues purport] All our ordinary actions and perceptions depend on

various forms of energy supplied to us by nature in various combinations.

Our senses of perception and of action, that is to say, our five perceptive

senses of (1) hearing, (2) touch, (3) sight, (4) taste and (5) smell, as

well as our five senses of action, namely (1) hands, (2) legs, (3) speech,

(4) evacuation organs and (5) reproductive organs, and also our three subtle

senses, namely (1) mind, (2) intelligence and (3) ego (thirteen senses in

all), are supplied to us by various arrangements of gross or subtle forms of

natural energy. [pauses purport]

 

 

(This is also referred to in the Srimad Bhagavatam as the catur-vyuha

develops from Narayana. Aniruddha and Pradyumna are the controlling deities

for the mind and the intelligence. It is said that they are the cause of the

development of mind and intelligence. Without the intervention, the grace,

the mercy of Pradyumna and Aniruddha, there is no development of the mind or

intelligence.

 

The same is true of earth, water, air, fire and ether. Everything that we

are to see, that we are to touch, they are supplied to us. We have no

independent supply of earth, water, fire, air, ether. Even if our eyes are

working, if there is nothing to see, if there is nothing to touch, nothing

to smell, then there is nothing. The point is we are dependent. Nothing, in

no space, in no way do we have any sphere, any degree, there is no slight

degree, of independence. There is complete and whole dependence.)

 

 

[continues purport]. . . are supplied to us by various arrangements of gross

or subtle forms of natural energy. And it is equally evident that our

objects of perception are nothing but the products of the inexhaustible

permutations and combinations of the forms taken by natural energy. As this

conclusively proves that the ordinary living being has no independent power

of perception or of motion, and as we undoubtedly feel our existence being

conditioned by nature's energy, we conclude that he who sees is spirit, and

that the senses as well as the objects of perception are material. The

spiritual quality of the seer is manifest in our dissatisfaction with the

limited state of materially conditioned existence. That is the difference

between spirit and matter. There are some less intelligent arguments that

matter develops the power of seeing and moving as a certain organic

development, but such an argument cannot be accepted because there is no

experimental evidence that matter has anywhere produced a living entity.

Trust no future, however pleasant. Idle talks regarding future development

of matter into spirit are actually foolish because no matter has ever

developed the power of seeing or moving in any part of the world. [pauses

purport]

 

 

(When I was a little boy about ten years old, that's fifth grade in America,

we were taught in some class about spontaneous generation. It seems five

hundred years ago, in Europe at least, it was believed that maggots, for

example, were spontaneously generated, for example, from rotting meat. Or

that a pile of rags would spontaneously generate mice. This was the source

of mice, that they would come, for example, from a pile of rags or

something, or hay, straw, from somewhere. This is called spontaneous

generation. So about five hundred years ago, this was disproved. A very

simple experiment proved that mice come from mice and maggots come from

flies. Maggots do not come from rotting meat.

 

I recall specifically how the entire class of children laughed and laughed

to think these poor people five hundred years ago thinking that maggots come

from rotting meat or that mice come from simply a pile of rags: "We are very

advanced. This is now 1960 and we are only ten years old and we know that

mice come from mice. We are not so foolish to believe that mice come from

rags. How silly."

 

But as they say, what goes around comes around. Now the big, big scientists

are saying it is true that mice do not come from rags, but if you have, what

is it called, primordial soup, special primordial soup. Well, this is no

ordinary pile of rags. What I am selling you here is not an ordinary pile of

rags. What I am selling you here is primordial soup and you believe me, this

can do the job. This is no mere pile of rags. This is what Prabhupada calls

a foolish argument.)

 

 

[purport] . . . no matter has ever developed the power of seeing or moving

in any part of the world.

 

 

(So we are separating here matter and spirit. Sprit, lving entites, do not

come from rags or rotting meat or primordial soul. Life comes from life.

Life and matter are separate.)

 

 

[continue purport] Therefore it is definite that matter and spirit are two

different identities, and this conclusion is arrived at by the use of

intelligence. Now we come to the point that the things which are seen by a

little use of intelligence cannot be animate unless we accept someone as the

user of or director of the intelligence. Intelligence gives one direction

like some higher authority, and the living being cannot see or move or eat

or do anything without the use of intelligence. When one fails to take

advantage of intelligence he becomes a deranged man, and so a living being

is dependent on intelligence or the direction of a superior being. Such

intelligence is all-pervading. Every living being has his intelligence, and

this intelligence, being the direction of some higher authority, is just

like a father giving direction to his son. The higher authority, who is

present and residing within every individual living being, is the Superself.

 

At this point in our investigation, we may consider the following question:

on the one hand we realize that all our perceptions and activities are

conditioned by arrangements of material nature, yet we also ordinarily feel

and say, "I am perceiving" or "I am doing." Therefore we can say that our

material senses of perception and action are moving because we are

identifying the self with the material body, and that the superior principle

of Superself is guiding and supplying us according to our desire. By taking

advantage of the guidance of Superself in the form of intelligence, we can

either continue to study and to put into practice our conclusion that "I am

not this body," or we can choose to remain in the false material

identification, fancying ourselves to be the possessors and doers. [pauses

purport]

 

 

(It came up in class I think two days ago, the question of free will verses

karma. I think the answer is given here very simply:)

 

 

[resumes purport] Our freedom consists in orienting our desire either toward

the ignorant, material misconception or the true, spiritual conception. We

can easily attain to the true, spiritual conception by recognizing the

Superself (Paramatma) to be our friend and guide and by dovetailing our

intelligence with the superior intelligence of Paramatma. The Superself and

the individual self are both spirit, and therefore the Superself and the

individual self are both qualitatively one and distinct from matter. But the

Superself and the individual self cannot be on an equal level because the

Superself gives direction or supplies intelligence and the individual self

follows the direction, and thus actions are performed properly. The

individual is completely dependent on the direction of the Superself because

in every step the individual self follows the direction of the Superself in

the matter of seeing, hearing, thinking, feeling, willing, etc.

 

So far as common sense is concerned, we come to the conclusion that there

are three identities, namely matter, spirit and Superspirit. Now if we go to

the Bhagavad-gita, or the Vedic intelligence, we can further understand that

all three identities, namely matter, individual spirit, and the Superspirit,

are all dependent on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Superself is a

partial representation or plenary portion of the Supreme Personality of

Godhead. The Bhagavad-gita affirms that the Supreme Personality of Godhead

dominates all over the material world by His partial representation only.

God is great, and He cannot be simply an order supplier of the individual

selves; therefore the Superself cannot be a full representation of the

Supreme Self, Purusottama, the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Realization

of the Superself by the individual self is the beginning of

self-realization, and by the progress of such self-realization one is able

to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead by intelligence, by the help

of authorized scriptures, and, principally, by the grace of the Lord. The

Bhagavad-gita is the preliminary conception of the Personality of Godhead

Sri Krsna, and Srimad-Bhagavatam is the further explanation of the science

of Godhead. So if we stick to our determination and pray for the mercy of

the director of intelligence sitting within the same bodily tree, like a

bird sitting with another bird (as explained in the Upanisads), certainly

the purport of the revealed information in the Vedas becomes clear to our

vision, and there is no difficulty in realizing the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, Vasudeva. The intelligent man therefore, after many births of such

use of intelligence, surrenders himself at the lotus feet of Vasudeva, as

confirmed by the Bhagavad-gita (7.19). [end of purport]

 

________________________

 

 

nama om. . .

 

there is so much here that I just prepared very short remarks and I am

hoping there can be some comments. One can choose what strikes one out of

this and can comment.

 

What I wanted to go back to is to point out that the spiritual master is the

external manifestation of the Supersoul. With that in mind, to read this

again. I found this repeatedly. It's definitely there somewhere. Friend and

guide, the term was friend and guide. I cannot find it. It is there in the

purport, the Paramatma is our friend and guide. I simply wanted to reread

that with this in mind that the spiritual master, our Srila Prabhupada, is

the external manifestation of the Supersoul, our friend and guide. It comes

up here again at the end of the purport:

 

". . . if we stick to our determination and pray for the mercy of the

director of intelligence. . ."

 

Paramatma, Supersoul, or the external manifestation of the Supersoul, Srila

Prabhupada, should be the director of our intelligence.

 

". . . if we stick to our determination and pray for the mercy of the

director of intelligence sitting within the same bodily tree, like a bird

sitting with another bird (as explained in the Upanisads), certainly the

purport of the revealed information in the Vedas becomes clear to our

vision, and there is no difficulty in realizing the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, Vasudeva."

 

This is the point that I wanted to make is that Srila Prabhupada is our

friend and guide in this matter. He has written all these books. He did not

stop at Bhagavad-gita, but expanded into Srimad-Bhagavatam. He did not stop

there but expanded into the Caitanya-Caritamrta. He did not stop there but

expanded into so many other books like Nectar of Devotion, the Nectar of

Instruction, and so many others. He did not stop there but traveled around

the world constantly developing centers all around the world and training up

the senior devotees whom we have now who are still helping us. This is all

Srila Prabhupada's work. He built this house that the whole world can live

in. We simply have to accept him as our friend and guide. It is true that

the devil is in the details and the details remain, but accepting him as our

friend and guide, our troubles are over.

 

Are there any comments or questions, please?

 

 

Akruranath Prabhu: OK, since the argument in the purport is that just by

introspection we can understand that we are not this body, we're spirit and

we can also understand that we are dependent on the Supreme Spirit for form

direction and intelligence. Just like, if you can simply explain how we can

perceive that just though introspection.

 

 

Amogha-virya Prabhu: Thank you. That is actually in my notes. My notes are

buried down here somewhere. This term form direction interested me, so I

tried to think about it a good deal. This is what I came up with. Without

form, say one is in a fog. In a dense fog, one cannot see anything. One can

see. One is conscious that I am seeing, but there is no form to see. In such

a predicament, your intelligence is of no use. You do not know which way to

go. Form direction, you may know which direction you want to go, I want to

go east. Or in military terms, you may know, I want to go 90 degrees this

way. You may know exactly what direction you want to go, but without form,

it is useless. Your intelligence has no value.

 

Similarly, if direction is removed, intelligence is also of no value. If I

am put down in the middle of Calcutta, I can see all the boards, but I have

no clue which way to go. I don't have any idea. I know there's a temple

there and I know if I get there I am OK, but I have no idea. I am seeing all

the forms, but I don't have any clue what the direction is. One requires

both. One requires to see form and one requires to have direction.

 

It is easy to see that both of these come from Srila Prabhupada. He is

giving us the form of the deity and he is giving us the direction. In all

these tooks, we are getting the direction what to do and what not to do. We

are told where intelligence comes from and hereby our troubles are solved,

our troubles are over. We have the form, we have the direction, whatever

intelligence Pradyumna, Aniruddha have give us, we have. We have the further

intelligence of Srila Prabhupada, the superior intelligence, which we simply

have to accept.

 

"By taking advantage of the guidance of Superself in the form of

intelligence, we can either continue to study and to put into practice. . ."

 

Practice is the key term, we must practice.

 

". . .our conclusion that "I am not this body," or we can choose to remain

in the false material identification, fancying ourselves to be the

possessors and doers. Our freedom consists in orienting our desire either

toward the ignorant, material misconception or the true, spiritual

conception."

 

Is that all right?

 

 

Akruranath Prabhu: Yes, thank you.

 

 

Hare Krsna. Anything else please?

 

 

Question: Yes, as time goes on, we see so many spiritual maters are leaving

the planet to go back to Godhead and leaving their disciples. So we have

Prabhupada's books and we have Supersoul within the heart, then someone may

be thinking, well, I don't need an authority now. I am trained, I am

initiated, I have Supersoul in the heart, I have so much experience, I don't

need any authority. I can act according to what I think. Is that safe?

 

 

Amogha-virya Prabhu: That is called our unfortunate condition. This came up

in class a couple of days ago that all of the acaryas, all of our senior

Godbrothers have affirmed that one should not do anything, not anything

serious or substantial, without consulting one's Godbrothers, especially

depending upon the gravity of the situation, one's senior Godbrothers.

 

This also takes into account the little story began this lecture with. It is

actually a very big job to go back to home, to go back to Godhead. I think I

can be so bold as to say that one is puffed up if one is thinking I can do

this on my own. Many, many jobs are too big for one person. Someone here may

be capable of doing this job by himself, but still, it seems wise to me, if

one has a big job, to accept help. There are many, many, many devotees here

who are able and willing to help.

 

Furthermore, just to expand the point a little bit, in the Upadesamrta, Rupa

Goswami gives the six exchanges of love. Two of them are to ask for such

help and receive such help. This is obviously a very, very important

instruction. It is very difficult to imagine, except that one is puffed up

unnecessarily and wrongfully, other than that, it is very difficult to

imagine why one would not accept help.

 

Prabhupada arranged association. That word occurs many, many times.

Prabhupada said many, many times that he established the International

Society so that devotees would have the ability to associate. Part of

association is the requesting of such help and the offering of such help.

Why one would not take advantage of this is very difficult to imagine. I do

not see any auspicious things resulting from that.

 

 

BVV Nrsimha Maharaja: I'd like to thank you for bringing up this verse for

us. This is an important topic and it's a long purport but because it's a

long purport we can understand that the topic is very important. Prabhupada

says there in the purport that he is giving us good reason to understand

just how the common man can perceive the presence of the Supersoul.

 

We can just simply hear that there is a Supersoul, that there is a Lord in

the heart, and we can accept that, but Prabhupada through his purport, he is

elaborately explaining to us an argument by which we can philosophically

understand that there is a Supersoul, guiding superior spiritual entity, in

the heart guiding us and directing us. He is helping us to understand this

presence and how we can present it to others. Because not everyone is

willing to accept there is the Supersoul. There is so many materialists

today, so many atheists, and so on. Some people may ? there may be some

spirit in the heart but who is to say that it is directing, that it is

giving any instruction or anything. So Srila Prabhupada through his purport,

he is giving us. . . . I can understand in this way that he is training us

to help us to understand how to present the presence of the Supersoul to

non-believers or people who are maybe sceptics, material people.

 

 

Amogha-virya Prabhu: That of course is a very good point and I'd like to

repeat this that I said earlier also that Text 34:

 

"The great personality Brahma, with great attention and concentration of the

mind, studied the Vedas three times. . . "

 

I read this purport five or six times yesterday and this morning and someone

undoubtedly has a sharper mind than I do, but I think it would be very, very

difficult to understand this purport with any degree of depth that

Prabhupada wants us to understand it by reading once only. It is more

difficult also, you are not reading, you are simply hearing. This is why the

reading, the repeated reading of Prabhupada's books is so important. Brahma

did not think once was sufficient and his brain is undoubtedly much, much

better than mine. So this purport, very long, very, very challenging needs

to be read and reread. I do not think it is likely one will get everything

from it that Prabhupada wants one to get from one reading only.

 

 

Prahladananda Maharaja: Krsna consciousness is actually very simple but

because we are bewildered by the material energy, therefore, to be able to

concentrate enough to actually hear this simple message requires a great

effort.

 

 

Amogha-virya Prabhu: It certainly does. In fact there is a very famous

lecture that Srila Prabhupada delivered on his spiritual master's Vyasa-puja

day where Prabhupada made reference to our causeless unwillingness to

surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We have some predisposition

to not be Krsna conscious in the sense that we are here in this material

world. Since we are here in the material world, it is understood that we

have some disposition not to be Krsna conscious. Prabhupada called it

causeless unwillingness.

 

This needs to be overcome and this requires energy, effort, persistent

practice. The word practice is also not very much liked by us. It brings

back memories of being forced to play the piano by our mothers or something

like that or practice handwriting. Nobody was very fond of these lessons,

but that is the only way. One does not learn these things without practice.

One will not learn Krsna consciousness without practice, without repeated

practice. Therefore we are advised to chant our japa everyday. Therefore we

are advised to read and reread and repeatedly reread and read again the

books of Srila Prabhupada because without this, it is not likely to happen.

 

 

Prahladananda Maharaja: In the Bhagavad-gita, where Krsna mentions practice,

Arjuna is asking him that it is very difficult to curb the restless mind,

it's turbulent, obstinate and very strong, O Krsna and to subdue is more

difficult than trying to control the wind. Lord Krsna says:

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

asaasayam maha-baho mano durnigraham calam

abhyasena tu kaunteya vairagyena ca grhyate

 

The translation is:

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is undoubtedly very difficult to

curb the restless mind, O Arjuna, but it is possible by suitable practice

and by detachment.. .

 

So it is not a question of only detachment, however, practice, but it is

also a question of suitable practice. We have to learn how to practice so we

actually get the result and the result should be vairgya, detachment from

material consciousness sand attachment to spiritual consciousness.

 

 

Amogha-virya Prabhu: This reminds me of suitable practice means use of

intelligence. This speaks immediately of the spiritual master, using him as

friend and guide, his superior intelligence making the practice suitable.

 

 

Jagajivan Prabhu: Also as devotees, we practice by depending on Krsna, we

perceive things in that dependence. This is the way we see things as

devotees.

 

There's an interesting story I might relate. I had cooked something for

Srila Prabhupada in Los Angeles, this is in '73, and I had gone out to his

garden to tell Sruta Kirti Prabhu that I had made some preparation. When I

went out to the garden, Prabhupada was taking his massage. Satsvarupa was

doing the massage. I went to Srutakirti and I told him I had made some

preparation.

 

Prabhupada saw me and said, "Come, come." So he had me sit in front of him

on the grass. I sat on the grass in front of him. Then he had somebody bring

a mat. He didn't want me to sit on the. . . .

 

Prabhupada looked at me and said, "When God sees, you see. Accept or

refute?"

 

"Prabhupada of course I accept everything you say." I was trying to get out

of it.

 

So Prabhupada looked at me and said, "But how do you accept?"

 

Oh, no! [laughing] So I started speculating how the Lord as Mahavisnu, he

impregnates the material energy. Looks at it and it becomes impregnated, the

material sense objects are created.

 

That was not the answer he was looking for.

 

At the time, Satsvarupa was looking in the sky trying to give me a hint. I

kept looking in the sky. So finally, I couldn't get it, Srila Prabhupada

explained to me that one of the eyes of the Lord is the sun, and the moon.

So we can see, we can perceive things by his seeing things. In this way we

are dependent. Our sight is dependent on the Supreme Lord.

 

So what I understand of the purport is we are perceiving things, but that

perception, even that perception is dependent on the Supreme Lord. This is

what is see as Prabhupada . . . . Sometimes we like to look at so many

things, but even seeing things is dependent. This is something I am getting

out of the purport. Thank you very much.

 

 

Amogha-virya Prabhu: It is nine o'clock now, Thank you very much. All

glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

[applause]