Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

[Guest guest]

Posted by Yaduraja on Mar 28, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

You wrote regarding my explanation that you had misstated my position:

 

> Thank you for your answer. I am just a little surprised that it took you

> six weeks to give that simple answer.

 

Any delay in reaching argument 3 was due to the fact that I had to

systematically machete my way through a veritable jungle of false

accusations, contradictions and poor argumentation. And I see another such

jungle already sprouting up before me. The lesson to learn is not to clutter

your posts with accusations and arguments that you do not want really want

systematically answered or rebutted, but were merely throwing up as a

smokescreen.

 

You quote me and comment:

 

> > In my previous lengthy post I already explained what my actual position

> > is.

>

> Your position that you explained in your previous lengthy post is

> basically the same as my position: Srila Prabhupada was to sole diksa guru

> for ISKCON and as such he acted accordingly.

 

If our position were the same that would certainly be fantastic, especially

with you being in charge of ISKCON’s main system of communication. I could

barely wish for more to be honest. I mean you have already rejected your

bogus ISKCON guru and agree that there is no proof ISKCON gurus are

authorised, so we’re certainly close. Furthermore the main objections to my

11 arguments proving point a) now lie in ruins, and yet you are on record as

agreeing with all the facts contained within thise very same 11 arguments.

 

However, it is my duty to point out that Srila Prabhupada established

himself as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON through a series of deliberate

acts. It wasn't just a big accident.

 

You go on:

 

> But I challenged following claim:

>

> "Srila Prabhupada set himself up, deliberately, in the position of the

> sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966." (Yaduraja, Nov 16, 2005)

>

> Or as I understand it:

>

> In 1966 Srila Prabhupada did something, deliberately, with the intended

> result that afterwards he was the sole diksa guru for ISKCON which he was

> not before (he did that something).

>

> Do you still claim this? If not, just tell me.

 

OK, once again here is my explanation of the deliberate acts Srila

Prabhupada carried out in order to establish himself as the sole diksa guru

for ISKCON:

 

To establish oneself as the sole diksa guru for a society you need to first

incorporate the society,

 

Then you need to set the standards for that society,

 

Then you need to attract followers who are willing to accept those

standards,

 

Then you need to get those followers to accept you as the ultimate authority

within that society,

 

Then you need to train them, observe them, and finally offer formal

initiation to those followers when you think they are ready.

 

At that last stage it would be fair to say you were firmly established as

the sole diksa guru for that society.

 

Therefore there is a process.

 

The complete establishment of his sole diksa guruship within the hearts and

minds of his followers was not complete or instantaneous on signing some

legal papers. It took great effort on Srila Prabhupada’s part; deliberate,

meticulous, devotional effort; to fully establish himself in that position

within the society he founded. Even after establishing himself as the sole

diksa guru for ISKCON through his activity of setting all the standards,

observing and initiating all the bhaktas and then performing the ceremony,

he occasionally had to re-establish himself as such in reaction to ambitious

deviants like Tusta Krishna etc. by telling them they could not initiate in

his presence.

 

Srila Prabhupada achieved all this in 1966, and in that way, through such a

programme of deliberate activity (or ‘making the streets wet’), he fully

established himself, on the physical platform, amongst the minds and hearts

of the society’s’ members, as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in September of

that year.

 

In Jan 1966 there was no society called ISKCON. By the end of 1966 there was

a society called ISKCON, with Srila Prabhupada fully and firmly established

as its sole diksa guru through deliberate acts on his part.

 

That is what we mean when we say:

 

Srila Prabhupada established himself as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in

1966.

 

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu