The Sun Is Closer Than The Moon

[Guest guest]

Dear Madhudvisa prabhu.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

> It is a touchy subject. And you have admitted that you did not have a good

> answer to it, except Sadaputa Prabhu's answer, which you quoted here. But

> his answer is the Moon is closer than the Sun and Prabhupada was therefore

> mistaken. Apparently Prabhupada does not understand the Bhagavatam as well

> as Sadaputa does. We still come to the same conclusion.

 

You are opening a whole new point of view here. I see, my problem was, that

I accepted explanations of Sadaputa prabhu for bonfide as by definition. I

never considered, that he may be wrong, since I had faith, that he knows

what he is talking about.

 

Although you plainly reduce authority of Sadaputa Prabhu, I hope you can

understand if I take some time before doing the same. I will try to gather

some more opinions, maybe some explanation pops out, which will prove, that

Srila Prabhupada is correct, but also that Sadaputa prabhu is correct. I

believe there may be some explanation lie this, I will try to find it.

>

> And you state that: "I was able to tell him that Prabhupada was probably

> not concerned with distances, since his main point was they never went to

> the moon." But that is your mental speculation. It is not even what

> Sadaputa says, not to speak of what Prabhupada says.

 

Yes, of course it is my mental speculation. It is my humble attempt to put

together both statements. I'm aware that my speculations are useless. Thats

why I was asking arround if somebody else has a good explanation of that. Of

course what Srila Prabhupada says is correct by definition, but I also hope

to find solution, which will not render Sadaputa Prabhu's work as totally

useless.

 

>

> So they are fools and rascals and we should not forget that.

 

I can only agree with your observation of hopeless situation, in which

academics are, due to their huge false ego.

 

>

> Please forgive me for going off on a tangent here but there is a bigger

> picture and I hope you can see that. If you start by saying Prabhupada is

> wrong and Sadaputa has a better explanation of the Bhagavatam then you

> have short-circuited everything. No one is going to become Krishna

> conscious by reading Sadaputa's books. But everyone who reads Prabhupada's

> books will ultimately become Krishna conscious, even Sadaputa. But right

> now he is on the side of the scientists, not on the side of Prabhupada.

> And we have to be careful like that. Maya can be very tricky.

 

Thank you for your understanding. But your answer opens another point. I

think you may want to provide answer to the following two points.

 

1. If Sadaputa Prabhu is wrong, then how to understand properly his work,

and how to see his endeavors to be connected to Srila Prabhupada?

 

2. You condemn the scientists understanding, but how to understand the view

of Surya Siddhanta, which agrees with observations of scientists. Surya

Siddhanta was taken seriously both by Srila Prabhupada, and of course by

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, who took his time to translate it to

bengali and for that received title Siddhanta Saraswati.

 

I suggest that there are two ways to look at the moon and sun, same as two

ways to look at the earth.

 

1. There is Surya Siddhanta moon and earth, and their position is described

similarly to observation of modern scientists, namely that moon is smaller

and closer to earth.

2. There is Srimad-bhagavatam version of Moon and Earth, namely that bigger

Moon (Candraloka) is further away from the Earth (Bhu-mandala) than the

smaller Sun (Suryaloka).

 

This are both shastric statements, and we consider them bonadife, because

Srila Prabhupada considered them bonafide.

 

So, we can understand Srila Prabhupada, that although they cannot go to the

Moon (Candraloka), they may go to the moon (dust planet), which is useless,

because it is full of dust and stones. But they cannot go to Candraloka. And

we could say, that just to make impossibility of travel to Candraloka clear

to western brain, he proposed that it is too far away to reach there in 4

days. But the real point is not that the moon is exactly 95.000.000 miles

away. The point is that Candraloka is OUT OF REACH, and cannot be reached by

any mechanical means, because it is heavenly planet.

 

We can say, that Sadaputa prabhu in representing scientists, but we may want

to be a bit careful not to jump to conclusions to soon. I will try to gather

more opinions on that.

 

 

>

> Hope you are well. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

>

> Your servant

>

> Madhudvisa dasa

>

>

>

> Giri-nayaka (das) BVS (Ljubljana - SLO)

> [Giri-nayaka.BVS (AT) pamho (DOT) net]

> Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:04 PM

> Balarama LOK; Madhudvisa (das) (ITV Los Angeles, CA - US);

> Understanding Srila Prabhupada's Teachings

> The Sun Is Closer Than The Moon

>

>

> Dear Madhudvisa Prabhu.

> Pamho. AgtSP.

>

> At first it seems as a touchy subject, I know. But, please don't think,

> that I'm trying to undermine Srila prabhupadas authority or something like

> that. Not at all. Quite the opposite. Like I said, this question was

> posted by another devotee (please see it in recent posting by Caitanya

> Candrodaya Prabhu), and I had no really good answer to it, besides that of

> Sadaputa Prabhu, which I quoted also here. And I was also able to tell

> him, that Srila Prabhupada was probably not so concerned about distances,

> since his main point was, that they never went to the moon.

>

> >

> > There is no question. Prabhupada has let us know for sure on many

> > occasions that the Moon is further away than the Sun. And it is

> > described like that in the Bhagavatam also. That the Moon is much bigger

> > than the Sun. But the Moon and the Sun appear to be the same size to us.

> > So if we accept the Bhagavatam's description of the relative sizes of

> > the Moon and Sun the Moon has to be further away.

>

> As explained by Sadaputa Prabhu, Bhagavatam says that moon is closer to

> Bharata Varsa than the sun. That is also supported by other sastra. Now,

> Sadaputa Prabhu may be wrong, but his points seem clear and

> understandable.

>

> It is true, that acording to SB the Sun is closer to Bhu-mandala (larger

> earth). But at the same time, it is further away from Jambudvipa and

> Bharata Varsa (which is our earth). So, both is true. There is just one

> slight disagreement in numbers, and it is a bit hard to grasp. It took me

> some time to figure out what the other devotee is actually speaking about.

> I needed to use some calculator and paper. And, of course, while not

> understanding his point, I blasted him away several times for his "wrong"

> opinion.

>

> BTW.

> ============

> Prabhupada: It does not look bigger than the sun. May be bigger. Hare

> Krsna. [break]

>

> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi

> ============

> >

> > In this text you are saying, more or less, "What Prabhupada says in the

> > Bhagavatam seems to be wrong, here is my explanation, it is better."

>

> No, not really. Why would I say anything like that. I'm just saying that

> it is not clear to me, why would Srila Prabhupada present the point

> numerically different than in sastra. It is not a challenging point,

> please don't jump to conclusions too soon. I reacted similarly to this

> question, as it was raised in "Understanding Srila Prabhupada's Teachings"

> conference. I said exactly the same points, as you did. Prabhupada is

> talking truth.

>

> It is just what is the truth? Is the truth in numbers or are numbers used

> to support higher truth? I picked up calculator and added numbers in

> Srimad Bhagavatam, to see where discrepancy is. You can do the same, if

> you want.

>

> Sadaputa prabhu also recognized this apparent contradiction in Srila

> Prabhupadas words. He comments, that SP is simply making the point that if

> you put together the Bhagavatam and modern astronomy you get a

> contradictory picture.

>

> Again, acording to SB, it can be viewed both ways. Both that the sun is

> closer, or that the moon is closer, depending of what you consider as

> earth. One earth is Bhu-mandala, and another earth is Bharata Varsa, part

> od Jambudvipa, central island of Bhu Mandala.

>

> >

> > There is something very seriously wrong with this. The words of the pure

> > devotee of Krishna are correct. We may not realize how they are correct.

> > But we have to accept that we are conditioned. We have imperfect senses,

> > we make mistakes, we are illusioned and we cheat. These faults all

> > conditioned souls, including the scientists, have.

>

> It is wrong, of course, the way you present it. But that is not what I'm

> aiming at, I assure you. I thought I was clear im my letter about my

> intention. Let me repeat my intention again, just to be clear. I noted

> this apparent discrepancy, and found explanation of Sadaputa Prabhu for

> it. From my experience I know, that usually there is more than one of such

> explanations. Different devotees give us more ways how to understand Srila

> Prabhupada in a better way. My question was like this: "Is this how we

> answer to people when they ask us, or maybe there are some other ways to

> look at this subject matter." So, I just wanted to know if explanation of

> Sadaputa Prabhu is "bonafide" and the only accepted in ISKCON, or maybe

> there is another explanation to it.

>

> >

> > The great benefit of receiving knowledge from Srila Prabhupada is it is

> > perfect and not flawed because of these four defects found in all

> > conditioned souls.

>

> Thank you for pointing this out. I was not going in this direction in any

> way, not even by far. Srila Prabhupada is right by definition, we all know

> that. But sometimes we don't understand some points well enough. And

> usually there are several ways how to understand some "contradictory"

> points. In this subject (moon) I was able to find only one explanation of

> Sadaputa Prabhu. I was just wondering if this is the only way to see it,

> or is there another way. Usually there is more than one way to see

> so-called "contradictory" points.

>

> >

> > So we may not understand exactly how what Srila Prabhupada is saying is

> > correct. But we understand it is correct. And if we surrender and serve

> > Srila Prabhupada then the knowledge and realization of the knowledge

> > will come to us.

>

> Yes, Srila Prabhupada is correct. There is of course no doubt about it. My

> letter is just a humble attempt to know, if there is another explanation

> on this subject besides that of Sadaputa Prabhu.

>

> >

> > But if we start off with the presumption that we have a greater ability

> > to understand the Srimad-Bhagavatam than Srila Prabhupada we are in real

> > trouble.

>

> Please, why would I do that? Interestingly, I reacted very similarly at

> first to the same questions put forward by another devotee. If you would

> like to see my replies, you can read them in "Understanding Srila

> Prabhupada's Teachings" conference. Now I know that I just didn't read

> another devotees letter carefully enough, and just unfairly attacked him

> for his "lack of faith". It was wrong from my side and now I'm just

> getting back what I deserve. I was jumping to conclusions abouth his faith

> in Srila Prabhupada too quickly, and now the same thing is happening to

> me. It is the mercy of devotees, and my great fortune, to be able to be

> guided in my attempts to serve Srila Prabhupada in his mission.

>

> Thank you

>

> your servant Giri-nayaka das