Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Dear Madana-mohan prabhu. pamho. agtSP. > >Sometimes or rather quite often a devotee in the beginning stage of > >advancement may not posses some of the 26 (or more) characteristics of a > >vaisnava. > > Right, but these 25 ( +1- for krsna eka saranam) qualities are the sure > gauge of our advancement. > > If they are not manifest after a reasonable amount of time, or worse yet, > if they are not recognized as necessary -- something is wrong either with > our practice or with understanding, or both. Well.... +1- for krsna eka saranam? Why +1- this exact one, and others are a "must"? Anyway, "(1) kind to everyone" need not manifest in exact the same way with all devotees. You cannot say, that those who do not push mass distribution, are not kind to all. There are other ways to show ones kindness. This one "(2) does not quarrel with anyone" is surely interesting and comes exactly after the first. And "(4) equal to everyone" again doesn't show only in mass prasadam distribution. Same is for (6) charitable, (7) mild, (22) compassionate and (23) friendly, which are certainly cultivated in mass prasada distribution. But it is a bit daring to say, that these qualities can all develop "only" through prasadam distribution. Prabhu, I know that it takes great endeavour to continue with prasadam distribution day after day. I wish I had such a strong determination in any field of my devotional activities. For me, you are worshipable and I beg for your blessings. But, please, take into consideration also service of others. It is unlikely, that Krsna is please only by mass prasadam distribution. It may be your project, and you keep yourself fired-up for it, but other devotees have other projects. And if they do not engage full time in mass prasada distribution, that doesn't mean they lack any of devotional qualities. And even if they do, they are to be understood, not condemned. We can condemn any activity, which is against devotional service. Or we can try to avoid those, who offend devotees. But to say that all those, who do not engage in mass prasada distribution lack tolerance, mercy and friendliness to all living entities, is a bit wild. Wouldn't you agree? ys gnd ================= These qualities of a devotee, twenty-six in number, are listed as follows: (1) kind to everyone, (2) does not quarrel with anyone, (3) fixed in the Absolute Truth, (4) equal to everyone, (5) faultless, (6) charitable, (7) mild, (8) clean, (9) simple, (10) benevolent, (11) peaceful, (12) completely attached to K™¢a, (13) has no material hankering, (14) meek, (15) steady, (16) self-controlled, (17) does not eat more than required, (18) sane, (19) respectful, (20) humble, (21) grave, (22) compassionate, (23) friendly, (24) poetic, (25) expert, (26) silent. ================= > > >Proper practice and proper behavior to all are mutually interdependent in > >the stage of sadhana. > > Yes, they are. > > I just meant to say that proper practice in itself should INEVITABLY bring > us to a point when we realize that without properly dealing with everybody > around us in a way, which one could describe as being properly humane, we > are stuck and cannot proceed any further. > > Incidentally, this same "point of truth" coincides with the border between > namaparadha and namabhasa, or, for that matter, kanistha and madyama. > > In other words, becoming compassionate to everybody **in practice** is a > natural criterion of our properly advancing, and if it is not visible, it > is a reason for concern with ourselves, individually and collectively. > > >The manual you present perfectly defends the position about respect to > >all, non-enviousness towards the bodies of living entities etc. Very > >powerful presentation and I think nobody in our discussion had ever > >supported the opposite notions i.e. that we have to be disrespectful, > >envious etc. > > But, if you were attentive, "the manual" also spoke ***of the most > appropriate way*** of showing that compassion and respect to other living > entities, which also happens to assist them on the way back to Godhead, > and which happens to be vast prasadam distribution. > > Therefore it beggars my logic how this same process of prasadam > distribution could be labeled here as a "mundane activity" which is meant > "mostly to benefit the people's bodies" and is "no attempt... to benefit > them from point of view of the real self interest." > > >This famous quote is also presented in BRS by Rupa Goswami in order to > >show that certain categories of people who aren't wishing to give up > >their material attachments have to continue practicing karmas > >(varnasrama). This is not in the context of Rupa Goswami a general > >prescription for a person who's already engaged in the practice of > >bhakti. > > Right. But this is exactly the question: "If we are engaged in the > practice of bhakti so well that we can scorn compassion and other duties > to people in general as something we can blissfully get along without". > > If answer is "yes" than we have to think again, because, as we have > already shown, neither paramahamsas nor sadhakas refrain from them -- the > former take to them naturally, and the latter -- for the sake of their own > purification. > > >I espesially like to bring the attention to the phrase: > > > >"Fortunately, if one develops directly a desire to engage in Krsna > >consciousness in pure devotional service, he does not need to undergo > >step-by-step improvements in spiritual realization. " > > Big "IF". And if one does not develop that desire, that is invariably > accompanied with compassion, what does he have to do? > > >And Lord Krsna says: ksipram bhavati dharmatma - just by his unflinching > >devotion a fallen devotee will quickly become sadhu i.e. develops > >spontaneous quality of compassion and ability to correctly help everybody > >on this basis. > > Right. > > Incidentally, the very first qualities a sadhu is characterized by Lord > Kapiladev is by "titiksava karunika suhrdam sarva-dehinam"-- or by his or > her tolerance, mercy and friendliness to all living entities. (SB 3.25.21) > > And if that "spontaneous quality of compassion and ability to correctly > help everybody on this basis" has not yet developed, it is a solid reason > to slam all endeavors to learn and practice compassion as "mundane > charity" meant for "maintaining bodies", right? > > >> But even when we do rise to the transcendental level, we will still do > >> it spontaneously anyway -- out of pure and unalloyed compassion, as > >> Srila Prabhupada did it back in the "Matchless Gifts" storefront back > >> in 1966, cooking, distributing and cleaning up all by himself. > > > >Srila Prabhupada is the perfect example for all of us to follow. > > It appears that we have a strange notion of "two compassions" -- one for > devotees and the other for people in general. > > Unfortunately, there is only one compassion. And if we do not have it for > people in general, we will have a hard time showing it for devotees. Such > truncated compassion is no more compassion, but some clannish mentality a > la Cosa Nostra. > > And, conversely, if we think that we do have compassion for devotees, we > should be able to muster enough of it for the rest. > > Please forgive me for my somewhat sarcastic and mentorly tone. > > But -- do we still hold that FFL program, when properly conducted, is some > mundane charity meant for bodily maintenance? > > Maybe, if we clearly answer this question, we might be able to put an end > to this discussion and save some time for direct devotional service. Or > for prasadam distribution. :-) > > Begging to remain > > your servant, > Madana-mohan das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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