shastra should be mediator

[Guest guest]

Dear Giri-nayaka Prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your response.

 

Unfortunately, at the place where I am now, I have a somewhat constrained

Internet access, so I might not be able to respond to your future posts

promptly, so please bear with me.

 

>Shastric examples of mediatorship are

>obviously not based on modern karmi psychological business managerial

>methods. And it is obvious, that mediatorship can be performed

>independently of karmi methods.

 

I am admittedly not a specialist in either. But my guess (please correct me

if I am wrong) is that both the sastric and 'karmi' approach share some

essential principles, that is, to make disputants listen to one another,

understand one another and try to find a mutually agreeable decision. If so,

what is so innately wrong or "unholy" in "karmi mediation"?

 

>And "authoritative decision" is mediation method proposed by Srila

>Prabhupada.

 

Once again, although Srila Prabhupada often times did make "authoritative

decisions" which were happily accepted by both opposing parties, it was

obviously not his sole approach.

 

For instance, he very wisely and tactfully mediated a schism between GBC and

an indoor splinter group of followers of one charismatic sannyasi who had

his ways and styles of preaching, that were hardly compatible with

mainstream ISKCON of that time. Although each party wanted Prabhupada to

slam the other by an "authoritative decision", he did not do it, at least

publicly. You can refer to Hari-sauri Prabhu's Transcendental Diary for more

information.

 

And besides that, there have been just too many problems and conflicts,

extinct or still brewing in ISKCON, sparkled just by our being too quick on

the trigger with "authoritative decisions" when the situation required some

tolerance, patience and ability to hear -- their things taught by the

mediation process. Examples are just too many to quote here, the Robin

George case being just one of them.

 

>And if there is no such system in sastra, which would be useful for modern

>ISKCON, then maybe we should just forget about the whole thing, and preach

>more vaisnava etiquette.

 

Right. And maybe we should happily expect that "the whole thing" will just

forget about us. And if it does not, than just tell "the whole thing" -- "He

is a senior devotee, surrender", as Vaisnava etiquette has us to do.

 

>Exactly, because those thing don't mess so much with your mind. But we

>avoid watching karmi movies and TV, we avoid visiting karmi psychologists

>and psychoanalysts, and similar, because those mess with your mind in a way

>to make you believe, that you are the controller and enjoyer.

 

Fully agree.

 

The only thing left for us is to prove that "karmi" mediation does exactly

the same thing to us as karmi movies.

 

>And yes, we

>usually use the 'karmi' adjective when referring to dentists, appliances

>and airplanes.

 

Do we? Somehow this fact has successfully evaded me over the years.

 

>Well, mediation need not be seen as a cause for weakening, but as effect of

>weakening. Increasing demand for different karmi psychological methods can

>be result of an increasing number of devotees weaken or abandon their

>loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, his teachings and his movement and start

>seeking shelter and fulfillment in mundane "peaceful" relations. And thus

>it can be a solid reason for concern.

 

Whether "increasing demand for karmi mediation" is an effect of weakening or

not, is not the point of discussion. The point of our discussion is if

mediation HAS detrimental effect on spiritual health of ISKCON devotees.

 

If it does, we have to see some proofs of it.

If it does not, the discussion is over.

 

>Well, I may ask another question. I noticed similar question being asked

>some time ago in some forum, but there was no answer. What, if by careful

>and unbiased study, we happen to find out, that by allowing householders to

>follow 3 and a half principles, more ISKCON devotees regain their trust in

>ISKCON, restore healthy relations with ISKCON members and get more time to

>read Prabhupada's books -- would we not be forced then to reconsider our

>attitude towards the regulative principles?

 

Surprising as it may seem, we do have to reconsider -- and in many places we

did have to reconsider -- our attitudes towards the regulative principles,

when our preaching started reaching out to a considerable amount of people

who did believe in Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but could

not follow the 4 regs in their entirety.

 

Previously (at least here in Russia) such people were at best looked down

upon as contemptible weaklings, and at worst ostracized -- exactly because

it was thought that all those who could not follow them were 'off'.

 

Now we try to encourage them in their positive devotional practices,

treating them as Vaisnavas, helping them grow from their respective level

up, instilling faith in them that they will one day be able to follow the

principles completely, while not making them feel guilty or inferior for not

following properly now.

 

By doing so we do not compromise on the point that 4 regs is a must for a

serious practitioner aspiring for initiation. But we do change our attitude

towards those who cannot follow them properly now -- from former contempt to

respect and encouragement.

 

As a result, we do see "more ISKCON devotees regain their trust in ISKCON,

restore healthy relations with ISKCON members and get more time to read

Prabhupada's books".

 

By the way, this is exactly what Srila Prabhupada did to some of his

sannyasi disciples who had difficulties in their asrama -- instead of

rejecting them as fallen sannyasis, as the Vedic culture holds, he

encouraged them to marry and keep on fighting in another position -- a

change that might be considered a radical, if not heretical, deviation for

an orthodox Vedic eye.

 

So what do we want to say now about "karmi mediation" and those

["weaklings"?] in ISKCON who still might be benefited by it?

 

Begging to remain

 

your servant,

Madana-mohana das