moon

[Guest guest]

But the moon is not 94,000,000 miles away from the earth? It is (+/-)

258,000 as confirmed by sastra (surya siddhanta). It is not a matter of

interpretation, or vieuwpoint. 258,000 bas.

 

OK it is also 1,600,000 miles above the bhu mandala as opposed to 800,000

miles (the sun). So this might take some spiritual understanding or

realization. But 1,600,000 is still not 94,000,000 bas.

 

 

Dear Prabhu, I`m just trying to understand how Srila Prabhupada is perfect.

I might have committed some offences in the past, due to envy, insincerity,

and inexperience (I`m a neophyte), but all I`m trying to do is to understand

how we should understand a pure devotee, and him being perfect, all knowing,

tri kala jnana, above the four defects etc. Now if anybody thinks we should

not discuss this, fine, but be so kind to explain it to this offender.

Let us focus on this moon "thing" but proceed with extreme caution. "Fools

rush in where angels fear to tread" So I`m a fool, hopefully you can help

me.

 

 

 

"Rädhä-vallabha: Yes. That’s the system actually. There are some other...

There actually is a big department. There are about eight or nine boys.

They’re all getting very good. Now Jagannätha had some questions on

corrections in the book. In verse twenty-eight it says, “Then he worshiped

Çré Kåñëa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn.”

Prabhupäda: Where it is? Brahma-saàhitä?

Rädhä-vallabha: Yes.

Prabhupäda: What is that?

Rädhä-vallabha: So it says, “Then he worshiped Çré Kåñëa, the essence of all

Vedas, with this hymn.”

Prabhupäda: Where it is?

Rädhä-vallabha: It’s verse twenty-eight, “Then he worshiped Çré Kåñëa.” So

Jagannätha said it should be, “Then he worshiped...”

Prabhupäda: No, no. Jagannätha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give

up.

Rädhä-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.

Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.

Rädhä-vallabha: He wasn’t changing any of the words. He was just...

Prabhupäda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.

Rädhä-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupäda: They can divide the synonyms. That’s all.

Rädhä-vallabha: Synonyms. So even...

Prabhupäda: That is his tendency, to correct. That’s very bad. He should not

do that.

Rädhä-vallabha: So I’ll just forget this, then.

Prabhupäda: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is

mistake, it should be accepted.

Rädhä-vallabha: Oh.

Prabhupäda: Asa-präya(?) That is ha... He should not become more learned

than the authority. That is very bad habit.

Rädhä-vallabha: He was always wondering how he should think. So I’ll tell

him that. He thinks, “If I think I see a mistake, what should I think?” I’ll

tell him what you just said.

Prabhupäda: He cannot see mistake. He is mistake. (laughter) He should...

That is being done by this rascal. I don’t want. And the Hayagréva has...,

the Easy Journey, he has changed so many things. That... He is now bad

character. You should not maintain him."

 

"Prabhupäda: So Jagannätha-süta should be strictly advised not to become

very learned to correct authorities. No.

Rädhä-vallabha: Jagannätha däsa.

Prabhupäda: Jagannätha? He is Jagannätha-süta or where he is?

Rädhä-vallabha: Jagannätha-süta is Back to Godhead. Jagannätha däsa is

Sanskrit.

Prabhupäda: Oh. That’s it. He should not be very learned.

Rädhä-vallabha: I think that instruction you gave will help him very much

about even if he thinks there is some mistake, just forget about it.

Prabhupäda: He is mistake. He should not think his authority mistake.

Rädhä-vallabha: He didn’t know what he should do. He didn’t know...

Prabhupäda: So why he should be given this business? He’s such irresponsible

man. He should not be given any responsible work. Our first business should

see how he is advanced in devotion. We don’t want so-called scholars.

Rädhä-vallabha: They just leave us.

Prabhupäda: Leave, I don’t mind. Just like he became a big scholar.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Nitäi.

Prabhupäda: Nitäi, he’s a rascal.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Big rascal.

Prabhupäda: I think that Jagannätha is within his group? Nitäi?

Rädhä-vallabha: Jagannätha was somewhat affected by Nitäi, but he’s...

Prabhupäda: I know that.

Rädhä-vallabha: I think he understands what the problem was. I think he

understands what his problem was, and that’s why he won’t do anything

without asking you.

Prabhupäda: Don’t allow him to do anything.

Rädhä-vallabha: Well, now that this system of no corrections anywhere, that

makes it very simple. Then he can’t do anything. I don’t think he wants to,

either. It makes it more simple for him. It makes him very uncomfortable.

Prabhupäda: No corrections. He can write that synonym, that’s all, according

to the translation. Who is writing the synonym?

Rädhä-vallabha: Jagannätha.

Prabhupäda: That’s all right. According to the translation. Not that he

becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Mahäräja."Room Conversation

--

February 27, 1977, Mäyäpura

 

 

"Prabhupäda: You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot criticize

wrongly."Room Conversation--Våndävana, March 16, 1974, (new98)

 

"Regarding the scientists, we have entrusted our own three scientists namely

Svarupa Damodara, Sadaputa, and Madhva and we leave the matter to them, we

do not say anything ourselves, but are leaving it to them."Letter to: Dr.

W.H. Wolf-Rottkay

 

"Prabhupäda: True or nontrue, I am layman. I am saying that if the moon is

rising from this side and going to this side, so sun is also rising from

this side and going to this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is

moving.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Common sense.

Prabhupäda: Huh? Yes, I am a layman. Actually sun is moving, but they say

fixed up."Morning Walk--March 18, 1976, Mäyäpura

 

Can we just simply expalin this away by vaisnava humility?

 

ys MGd

 

 

 

 

--

Chandigarh

14 October, 1976

> > Dear Madhu Gopal Prabhuji,

> > Please accept my humble obeisances, all Glories to Srila

> > Prabhupada.

> > >

> > > Thank you for your intteligently written letter. I must admit,

> > --

> > > For now I refrain from commenting on your wonderfull qoutes

> > > concerning Rahu, since I prefer, for sake of simpicity (let`s

> > > keep it simple), to focus on the moon subject. If you insist

> > > though, I will be glad to comment anyway.

> >

> > Yes. For the sake of THIS discussion please comment on ****

> > selected below. Please.

> >

> > > 3 Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.69:

> > > Krsna consciousness means constantly associating with the Supreme

> > > Personality of Godhead ****in such a mental state that the

> > > devotee can observe the cosmic manifestation exactly as the

> > > Supreme Personality of Godhead does****. Such observation is

> > > ****not always possible, but it becomes manifest exactly like the

> > > dark planet known as Rahu, which is observed in the presence of

> > > the full moon.****

 

> He does not adress the fact that Mother Yasoda is

> seeing the universe. He goes on the help us to explain how we can get

> out of this hell hole. To me it seems abvious that although Mother

> Yasoda sees the whole cosmic manifestation, she might not know how

> far away the moon is from the earth.

 

 

Dear Madhu Gopal Prabhuji

 

Here is my take on it.

 

As the saying goes, 'having started on the dance it is no use to draw

close the veil.'

 

An English king introduced the unit of measurement, yard. William of

Malmsebury wrote -- yard was the "measure of his (the king's) own arm,"

So (our example) Henry wanted to have everything in this world to be

measured by his own measurements. "Imperial" units.

 

We are also used to the idea of measuring "universally" the Universe

using our own limited "selves" as a unit. (That will remain your

perspective and I don't expect you to change it just by reading this

text.)

 

This world is relative and that also means there is birth and death. The

death is nothing but our payback time for the fact that we belong to

this world and measure it by our "own arms". If only we were to measure

it with Gods measurements we would not have to be subjected to birth and

death as well as see the Universe as His own, the virat-rupa form.

 

Keeping in mind that ultimate approximation which is considerable if you

ask me I will try to explain the issue of Rahu and its relationship with

Moon and Sun.

 

Of course there is also a perspective of modern science (Decarts model)

or a universally measurable space that is but an abstraction of

"self-centered" model, that was interestingly resulting from more modern

theological concepts after Reformation.

 

As I have said there are different models and principles of methodology

which not specific to the area of cosmology, but also to spirituality.

Not only they are different, but even if applied to cosmology produce

different perspectives and even measurements.

 

To someone who is trained or otherwise fixed in "self-centered" paradigm

and is not ready to paradigm shift an allegorical explanation of the

scriptures dealing with Vedic cosmogony is often recommended. Some

aspects of Bhagavatam can be explained as allegory thus "self-centered"

intellect is not offended by acceptance of unconceivable, achintya.

 

On the other hand it is not the purpose of Bhagavatam. Purpose of

Bhagavatam is to actually achieve Kingdom of God. So obviously humility

will be required and that will include acceptance of the authority of

the knowledge coming from Bhagavatam itself over the authority of the

senses or ones self-centered concepts.

 

The Bhagavatam refers to the sun, the moon, and the planet Rahu, as

persons. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.69: "Krsna consciousness means

constantly associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in such a

mental state that the devotee can observe the cosmic manifestation

exactly as the Supreme Personality of Godhead does." Everything - the

Earth, the moon, the stars, the planets - has a personal conception. In

the background of what we can perceive with our dull senses, everything

that is said to be matter, there must be a personal conception. There

are so many statements on the cosmology of the universe in the

scriptures. The spiritually developed men of former times, used to see

everything as consciousness. They saw that the shadow is also conscious.

The shadow, abhasa, is also considered to be a stage of consciousness.

Only through that shadowy stage of consciousness can we come to the

material conception of a thing. Before we reach the conception of a

shadow, we must pass through some mental stage, and personification may

be attached to that mental stage. The personification of the shadow may

be referred to as "Rahu."

"devotee can observe the cosmic manifestation exactly as the Supreme

Personality of Godhead does. Such observation is not always possible,

but it becomes manifest exactly like the dark planet known as Rahu,

which is observed in the presence of the full moon."

 

Did Srila Prabhupada think the so-called "story" of the origin of planet

Rahu, as told in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, was merely allegorical? Not

merely, but can be taken as allegorical to the degree that one needs it.

"I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such

things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka is

explained allegorically. .... There are many things which do not

corroborate with the so-called modern science." (Letter to Krsnadasa,

Vrindaban, Nov. 7, 1972. You should always pay attention to details: "I

must try to answer to your satisfaction." If one is not on the level of

being able to "observe the cosmic manifestation exactly as the Supreme

Personality of Godhead does" one must be answered according to ones

realization.

 

I'm sure Prabhupada knew...