shastra should be mediator

[Guest guest]

> >It would be interesting to see some quotes from Srila Prabhupada

> >regarding ISKCON devotees seeking mental help through karmi methods.

> >Probably something contrary to well known slogan "Spiritual solutions for

> >material problems".

>

> Dear Giri-nayaka Prabhu,

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> Please forgive me for rambling on. It would be rather presumptuous of me

> to think that I can enlighten anybody on the conference. But it appears

> that the issue that you have touched upon is important for me personally,

> so here is some more points:

>

> If we take yukta-vairagya to be a spiritual principle, then employing

> contemporary techniques, such as mediation, **within their limits,** in

> the service of Vaisnavas individually and ISKCON collectively can indeed

> be rightfully considered a spiritual solution to material problems -- as

> much as using modern technology like computers for printing Srila

> Prabhupada's books.

 

There are different understandings of "yukta vairagya" in ISKCON. Many seem

to be mistaken, promoting something else than Prabhupadas mood. It seems it

is dependant on personal advancement in KC. Often devotees take it to mean,

that you can do any damn thing that comes to your crazy mind, just say, that

it is for Krsna. That can be done of course, but is not really something to

be proud of.

 

As far as I learned, yukta vairagya means, that we engage everything for

Krsna's satisfaction, not for our satisfaction. Now, one may say that Krsna

is satisfied, when we are satisfied, but that sounds dangerously similar to

some materialistic religionistic ideas.

 

I'm sure, that one may find a way to engage mediation for Krsnas

satisfaction, just like everything can be engaged for Krsnas satisfaction.

But, in general, 99.9% of devotees will use it for their own satisfaction,

to make material world a better place to live in. It is "heavenly planets"

mentality and therefore it is critisized. This methods attract persons, who

want to find any means, Vedis or non-Vedic, to avoid suffering. Whats wrong

with that, one may ask? Well, nothing really, it is normal in material

world. It is just not what ISKCON was made for.

 

>

> Sorry for being sarcastic here, but do we opine that using "karmi"

> computers is also an ominous tendency in modern ISKCON that needs to be

> rectified by reverting to handcopying? We'd better do, because it is quite

> easily demonstrable that a MUCH greater number of ISKCON devotees'

> spiritual lives suffered and fell victims to the pervasive use of

> computers than to the pernicious "karmi" mediation.

 

If we use computers for our enjoyment, then better we throw them out of the

window right now. And mediation is not so wide spread ye, it is in the stage

of being violently promoted as a cure for all our problems.

>

> The key word here is **within their limits**. Once the limits are crossed,

> even a harmless MP3-player, or vastu, or yoga, or cellphone -- or, for

> that matter, mediation -- can turn into an object of obsession and hence

> a cause for spiritual degradation.

 

Yes. And people in general are naturally attracted to any method, that makes

life in material world enjoyable. It is a duty of ISKCON leaders to cut

through such mentality. Otherwise we have blind man leading other blind men.

Society without a head.

 

>

> That's why Srila Rupa Goswami wisely preceded his definition of

> yukta-vairagya with "anasaktasya visayan" -- "without material

> attachment", "yatha-arham upayunjatah" -- "using according to [its]

> suitability", "nirbandhah" -- "without bondage [that is, obsession with

> it]" and "krsna-sambandhe" -- "in relationship with Krsna".

 

yes! This should be preached vigorously!

>

> But as long as computers or mediation are kept within these 4 boundaries

> -- what's so inherently wrong with them?

 

Nothing. But are they kept within those 4 boundaries? I don't think so.

I'd say devotees have great trouble controlling their material expectations

in both of this fields. Computers and mediation - its a promised land, where

you can fulfill all your dreams. By computers, we can get anything, and with

mediation we make sure, that we can enjoy peacefully in our gained goods.

 

I'm against mediatorship, where a "trained" mediator is called to temple

(Fiji for example), to engage a crush course (3days) for 25 people, to

become trained mediators!!!??? Thats typical ISKCON passion. Like you become

trained and expert in any field in 3 days.... It takes more than 3 days to

learn your job well.

 

Ve see such attempts in all different fields. Vastu (vasati) is another

example. Ayurveda courses, communication courses, and so on. I don't know

how many there are. Somebody else can name more. It is just cheating.

Cheaters and cheated.

 

 

ys gnd