Guest guest Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 see http://www.treeoflife.nu/whyveganism.html for full article; some excerpts below : There was a time when dairy was considered "rasa" or the subtle energy of richness, sweetness, and delight. In India, for example the general population would regularly have a little amount of dairy. This small amount was a way of supplying B12. The cows were treated with a great deal of love and respect. The milk was given freely and they were milked by human hands. Even so, Swami Muktananda, a world-acknowledged master in Kundalini and Shaktipat transmission, taught that all dairy clogs the nadis (subtle energy channels). In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot eat your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for turning your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this does not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not become liberated. The focus of this article is to clear some of the confusion about the purity, harmlessness, and safety of consuming dairy products. ........... Summary ~ Perspectives on Dairy The message from the research indicates that dairy may be a less than an appropriate food for this time. It does not mean if you drink milk that you won't wake up spiritually. It does clog the nadis (subtle spiritual nervous system) and brings in the energy of death, misery and suffering into our spiritual bodies. At this time in history the choice to be vegan and not using dairy returns us to the original Garden of Eden Diet* which is part of creating the pre- conditions for a massive upgrade of human consciousness. Inhumane Cruelty, Suffering and Death Waste of Resources & Ecological Damage Transmission serious disease Associated with Juvenile Diabetes Lactose Intolerance and Digestive Disorders A myriad of Toxins & Contaminants Misaligned with the healthy physiology of human nutrition or natural diet and life cycle of humans. It is a choice for the benefit of your health and spiritual life; for the prevention of cruelty to animals; for the benefit of holding a way of life that creates the healing of the planet; and for the benefit of being in the natural cycle, Gabriel and the Tree of Life does not use milk or its dairy products nor are they recommended to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for 16 years and vegan for about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I definitely can't eat much dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are probably unadvisable, because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may exacerbate certain endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to our difficulties in having a child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and different kinds protein than I've been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has been telling me that it needs at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal protein that I can even bear to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to consuming any animal products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, incidentally....if any women in the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who works primarily with GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please write me, off-list) and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, have told me they feel it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while trying to conceive. I feel that they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've been fighting it for a long time. I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with particular health issues to go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect she'd tell me the same. Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me now....it's hard for me to go with it. I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? Iswari Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc> wrote: > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot eat > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for turning > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this does > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > become liberated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Namah Shivayah, I was a vegetarian for 27 years and am no longer after (through Amma's grace) meeting a healer who advised me to eat meat. I know this flies in the face of what many on this board believe. But I've done extensive research and truly believe that it is not possible to be well-nourished as a long-term vegetarian. Women, if memory serves, require 46 grams of protein per day and men 58 grams of protein per day. One egg supplies a mere 6 grams of protein. Even a 3 egg omelot provides only 18 grams. When I was at Amritapuri last year my seva was evening dinner checker, and I had to see what everyone was eating. Most of the people there were really heavy into the "virtuous" (or so they think) carbohydrates. Some people seemed never to be eating any protein. I was appalled and couldn't help but wonder if the lack of protein in their diets contributes to the very high rate of cancer (or so it seems) among Amma devotees and other "virtuous" vegetarians I know. Brahmacharini Nirmalamrita died of cancer, Swami Paramatmananda currently has cancer, and Ron has something similar. I could go on, but these are people who are well-known. Two long term vegetarians I know locally had their hair analyzed and were told that they were very, very deficient in protein. Their solution is to have protein at every meal and to eat fish. I encourage people to get their hair analyzed by someone who does hair analysis. Be a vegetarian for 27 years before you criticize my decision. In Amma's love, Jyotsna Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari> wrote: > > I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for 16 years and vegan for > about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I definitely can't eat much > dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are probably unadvisable, > because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may exacerbate certain > endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to our difficulties in having a > child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and different kinds protein than I've > been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has been telling me that it needs > at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal protein that I can even bear > to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to consuming any animal > products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, incidentally....if any women in > the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who works primarily with > GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please write me, off-list) > and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, have told me they feel > it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while trying to conceive. I feel that > they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've been fighting it for a long time. > > I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with particular health issues to > go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect she'd tell me the same. > > Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me now....it's hard for me to go with it. > > I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? > > > Iswari > > Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc@> wrote: > > > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot eat > > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for turning > > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this does > > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > > become liberated. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 --- amarnath <anatol_zinc > wrote: see http://www.treeoflife.nu/whyveganism.html for full article; some excerpts below : There was a time when dairy was considered "rasa" or the subtle energy of richness, sweetness, and delight. In India, for example the general population would regularly have a little amount of dairy. This small amount was a way of supplying B12. The cows were treated with a great deal of love and respect. The milk was given freely and they were milked by human hands. Even so, Swami Muktananda, a world-acknowledged master in Kundalini and Shaktipat transmission, taught that all dairy clogs the nadis (subtle energy channels). In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot eat your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for turning your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this does not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not become liberated. The focus of this article is to clear some of the confusion about the purity, harmlessness, and safety of consuming dairy products. ........... Summary ~ Perspectives on Dairy The message from the research indicates that dairy may be a less than an appropriate food for this time. It does not mean if you drink milk that you won't wake up spiritually. It does clog the nadis (subtle spiritual nervous system) and brings in the energy of death, misery and suffering into our spiritual bodies. At this time in history the choice to be vegan and not using dairy returns us to the original Garden of Eden Diet* which is part of creating the pre- conditions for a massive upgrade of human consciousness. Inhumane Cruelty, Suffering and Death Waste of Resources & Ecological Damage Transmission serious disease Associated with Juvenile Diabetes Lactose Intolerance and Digestive Disorders A myriad of Toxins & Contaminants Misaligned with the healthy physiology of human nutrition or natural diet and life cycle of humans. It is a choice for the benefit of your health and spiritual life; for the prevention of cruelty to animals; for the benefit of holding a way of life that creates the healing of the planet; and for the benefit of being in the natural cycle, Gabriel and the Tree of Life does not use milk or its dairy products nor are they recommended to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Namah Shivayah, I would like to recommend the book, Diet For A New America by John Robbins. The book deals with the health issues surrounding vegetarianism and has a lot of very interesting results of studies and statistics relating to the health benefits of the vegetarian diet. Rather than spending 6 hours listing all of the benefits of a vegetarian diet and all of the illnesses it can keep at bay, I would just like to recommend this book to anyone who is interested in exploring the truth of the subject further. There are some vegetables that are higher in protein than you could possibly imagine (for example spinach and also Quinoa, a grain). As to vegetarians having more cancer than non-vegetarians...I think that's probably bunk. I've seen so many statistics on this and none of them insinuate this at all. In fact, vegetarians have a much lower risk of certain types of cancers, heart disease and the list goes on and on. To Iswari, as to the issue of eating eggs and fish to help with a health issue...I am sure Amma would agree that it is fine. I eat eggs occassionaly when I am not feeling well and I struggled with this for a long time before realizing I was beating myself up for no reason. I think it all depends where you heart is at. Would you eat the bloodied corpse of a baby cow without being affected by it and enjoying the taste without thinking twice of the pain that baby had to suffer? If so, I think that is a greater problem because then it is an issue of compassion....which flies in the face of everything Amma teaches. I mean, why isn't Amma serving veal, hamburgers and chicken wings at the retreats and at the ashram? To each his own, but I prefer to follow her example. Jai Ma! Ananthasree http://www.ananthasree.com Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2> wrote: > > Namah Shivayah, > > I was a vegetarian for 27 years and am no longer > after (through Amma's grace) meeting a healer who > advised me to eat meat. I know this flies in the > face of what many on this board believe. But I've > done extensive research and truly believe that it > is not possible to be well-nourished as a long-term > vegetarian. Women, if memory serves, require 46 > grams of protein per day and men 58 grams of protein > per day. One egg supplies a mere 6 grams of protein. > Even a 3 egg omelot provides only 18 grams. When I > was at Amritapuri last year my seva was evening > dinner checker, and I had to see what everyone was > eating. Most of the people there were really heavy > into the "virtuous" (or so they think) carbohydrates. > Some people seemed never to be eating any protein. > I was appalled and couldn't help but wonder if > the lack of protein in > their diets contributes to the very high rate of > cancer (or so it seems) among Amma devotees and > other "virtuous" vegetarians I know. Brahmacharini > Nirmalamrita died of cancer, Swami Paramatmananda > currently has cancer, and Ron has something > similar. I could go on, but these are people > who are well-known. > > Two long term vegetarians I know locally had their > hair analyzed and were told that they were very, > very deficient in protein. Their solution is to > have protein at every meal and to eat fish. > > I encourage people to get their hair analyzed > by someone who does hair analysis. Be a > vegetarian for 27 years before you criticize > my decision. > > In Amma's love, > Jyotsna > > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> > wrote: > > > > I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for > 16 years and vegan for > > about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I > definitely can't eat much > > dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are > probably unadvisable, > > because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may > exacerbate certain > > endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to > our difficulties in having a > > child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and > different kinds protein than I've > > been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has > been telling me that it needs > > at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal > protein that I can even bear > > to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to > consuming any animal > > products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, > incidentally....if any women in > > the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who > works primarily with > > GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please > write me, off-list) > > and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, > have told me they feel > > it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while > trying to conceive. I feel that > > they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've > been fighting it for a long time. > > > > I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with > particular health issues to > > go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect > she'd tell me the same. > > > > Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me > now....it's hard for me to go with it. > > > > I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? > > > > > > Iswari > > > > Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc@> wrote: > > > > > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot > eat > > > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for > turning > > > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this > does > > > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > > > become liberated. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Dear Jyotsna, I would not critisize anybody for their dietary decisions. But, I have been a vegetarian for 36 years and made several mistakes. I just shared my story in a previous post. Here is some more I can share what I learned especially during the last 6 years or so: 1) Green Leafy Vegetables are a very important factor in a continuous cleansing, healing and nourishing the body; should be about 50% of your diet; and at times could be 100%. A goal of two lbs of fresh greens per day is not too much. 2) Green Leafy Vegetables help the body from becoming too acidic. 3) Green Leafy Vegetables have plenty of proteins; add to that a little of seeds, nuts and legumes and of course also add a large variety of other veggies and fruit. 4) Grains and Animal Products make the body acidic and predespose it to various ailments especialy cancer in this very toxic world. 5) India is grossly lacking in GREENS; but high in spirituality. 6) Some of Amma devotees, including a Chineese Macrobiotic lady who is a very good energy therapist, says she can stay in India for only about 4 months before her body becomes too acidic. 7) Another westerner who married an Indian lady and lives in India, takes one or two days per week to drink only water with green spirulina to keep his body from getting too acidic. 8) Manoharan( author of "Amma and Me" ) and some other westerners would like someone to take charge and run an organic garden; the Ashram has a lot of land that is not used. Dr. Fuhrman, MD has all the numbers( how much ) of nutrients including proteins you get from a diet with SALAD AS THE MAIN DISH. This is my view; I am sure there are others. Amma Bless, amarnath Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2> wrote: > > Namah Shivayah, > > I was a vegetarian for 27 years and am no longer > after (through Amma's grace) meeting a healer who > advised me to eat meat. I know this flies in the > face of what many on this board believe. But I've > done extensive research and truly believe that it > is not possible to be well-nourished as a long-term > vegetarian. Women, if memory serves, require 46 > grams of protein per day and men 58 grams of protein > per day. One egg supplies a mere 6 grams of protein. > Even a 3 egg omelot provides only 18 grams. When I > was at Amritapuri last year my seva was evening > dinner checker, and I had to see what everyone was > eating. Most of the people there were really heavy > into the "virtuous" (or so they think) carbohydrates. > Some people seemed never to be eating any protein. > I was appalled and couldn't help but wonder if > the lack of protein in > their diets contributes to the very high rate of > cancer (or so it seems) among Amma devotees and > other "virtuous" vegetarians I know. Brahmacharini > Nirmalamrita died of cancer, Swami Paramatmananda > currently has cancer, and Ron has something > similar. I could go on, but these are people > who are well-known. > > Two long term vegetarians I know locally had their > hair analyzed and were told that they were very, > very deficient in protein. Their solution is to > have protein at every meal and to eat fish. > > I encourage people to get their hair analyzed > by someone who does hair analysis. Be a > vegetarian for 27 years before you criticize > my decision. > > In Amma's love, > Jyotsna > > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> > wrote: > > > > I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for > 16 years and vegan for > > about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I > definitely can't eat much > > dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are > probably unadvisable, > > because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may > exacerbate certain > > endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to > our difficulties in having a > > child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and > different kinds protein than I've > > been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has > been telling me that it needs > > at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal > protein that I can even bear > > to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to > consuming any animal > > products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, > incidentally....if any women in > > the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who > works primarily with > > GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please > write me, off-list) > > and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, > have told me they feel > > it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while > trying to conceive. I feel that > > they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've > been fighting it for a long time. > > > > I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with > particular health issues to > > go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect > she'd tell me the same. > > > > Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me > now....it's hard for me to go with it. > > > > I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? > > > > > > Iswari > > > > Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc@> wrote: > > > > > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot > eat > > > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for > turning > > > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this > does > > > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > > > become liberated. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Namah Shivaya Iswari and all, If there's one thing that people can't seem to agree on, it's diet. My own experience has been that when we are in a state of dis-ease that maybe we need to examine our priorities. There are times when I seem to need to eat fish or poultry or eggs. I have been on and off dairy a zillion times and don't seem to feel any different either way. There is organic milk available that doesn't contain hormones or chemicals. There is range fed beef that is like eating an old shoe, but my guess is that it is pretty pure. Free range chicken has been available for a long time. Mother's family ate fish, even though they were quite devout. One sad thing about living on this planet is that one life form must live off other life forms. I think most people on this list would rather eat low on the food chain, but sometimes we don't really have a choice. Just my 2 cents. Love, Prasadini ammasiswari wrote: > I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for 16 > years and vegan for > about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I > definitely can't eat much > dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are > probably unadvisable, > because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may exacerbate > certain > endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to our > difficulties in having a > child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and different > kinds protein than I've > been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has been > telling me that it needs > at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal protein > that I can even bear > to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to consuming > any animal > products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, > incidentally....if any women in > the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who > works primarily with > GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please > write me, off-list) > and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, have > told me they feel > it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while > trying to conceive. I feel that > they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've been > fighting it for a long time. > > I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with > particular health issues to > go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect she'd > tell me the same. > > Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me now....it's > hard for me to go with it. > > I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? > > > Iswari > > Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc> wrote: > > > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot eat > > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for turning > > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this does > > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > > become liberated. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Namah Shivayah, Well, if you follow Amma's example, you will be eating fish. Of course she is diabetic, which may be the reason for that, but I know she does eat some fish. As you say vegetarians have a lower risk of "certain" cancers, but inversely, a higher risk of certain other cancers. One devotee at Amritapuri who was exulting to me about the wonders of her grain (quinoa) diet, has now been diagnosed with a "very aggressive" cancer. It makes me very sad to see people suffer. For a while I felt very bad about eating meat (mostly free range chicken) but then a friend sent me a quote by Amma saying that she can make no one prescription for food, as people are so individual. (I'm sorry, but I can't find the quote right now.) Anyway, I had asked Amma's help for a specific heath concern, and I believe this was her answer for me. And as Jesus Christ said, "It's not what goeth in at the mouth that defileth, but what cometh out of the mouth." So Christ apparently did not feel that one has to eat in a certain way. I would like to recommend the books, "Electrical Nutrition" by Denie Hiestand and also "The Perricone Prescription" by Dr. (?) Perricone. He basically says vegetarians have worse skin because they don't get enough "high quality" protein. There's a very interesting, long, and meticulously researched article called "Myths of Vegetarianism" in a 1999 issue of "The Ecologist" magazine by Byrnes. A resident of Fairfield, IA told me that three highly placed TM practicioners had died of the same "very rare" liver cancer. This seems like more than coincidence. Two of my local SRF temple members have died of cancer. When I worked for a large library system, the contrast between the "healthy" librarians and the "unhealthy" vegetarians was striking. Librarians tend to lead moderate lifestyles but do not eschew meat. I think some of the skewing of the statistics in favor of vegetarianism comes from the fact that many meat-eaters (more so than vegetarians) smoke and drink, etc. Alcohol and tobacco are known carcinogens. Also, much of the research is based on Seventh Day Adventists. Since my mother was a SDA for the last 15 years of her life, I know that they constantly have nutrition classes at their church, emphasizing healthy vegetarian food. (And I do love vegetarian food! Yum!) But what I saw in Amritapuri last year was a lot of dinners of rice, cake and lassi. Personally, I'd like to hear from all the long term (over 20 years) vegetarians who are in great health. If vegetarianism is so healthy, why don't I know more healthy old vegetarians? The two healthiest older people I know are farmers that raised their own vegetables and meat. Of course I could be wrong. It's in my horoscope that I will tear down any facade to get at the truth, so I may learn later that this is all wrong, but after so many years of walking the walk and talking the talk of vegetarianism, I'm no longer convinced. Sorry to be a party pooper, Jyotsna Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree> wrote: > > Namah Shivayah, > > I would like to recommend the book, Diet For A New America by John Robbins. The book > deals with the health issues surrounding vegetarianism and has a lot of very interesting > results of studies and statistics relating to the health benefits of the vegetarian diet. > Rather than spending 6 hours listing all of the benefits of a vegetarian diet and all of the > illnesses it can keep at bay, I would just like to recommend this book to anyone who is > interested in exploring the truth of the subject further. There are some vegetables that are > higher in protein than you could possibly imagine (for example spinach and also Quinoa, a > grain). As to vegetarians having more cancer than non- vegetarians...I think that's probably > bunk. I've seen so many statistics on this and none of them insinuate this at all. In fact, > vegetarians have a much lower risk of certain types of cancers, heart disease and the list > goes on and on. > To Iswari, as to the issue of eating eggs and fish to help with a health issue...I am sure > Amma would agree that it is fine. I eat eggs occassionaly when I am not feeling well and I > struggled with this for a long time before realizing I was beating myself up for no reason. I > think it all depends where you heart is at. Would you eat the bloodied corpse of a baby > cow without being affected by it and enjoying the taste without thinking twice of the pain > that baby had to suffer? If so, I think that is a greater problem because then it is an issue > of compassion....which flies in the face of everything Amma teaches. I mean, why isn't > Amma serving veal, hamburgers and chicken wings at the retreats and at the ashram? To > each his own, but I prefer to follow her example. > > Jai Ma! > > Ananthasree > > http://www.ananthasree.com > > > > Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2@> wrote: > > > > Namah Shivayah, > > > > I was a vegetarian for 27 years and am no longer > > after (through Amma's grace) meeting a healer who > > advised me to eat meat. I know this flies in the > > face of what many on this board believe. But I've > > done extensive research and truly believe that it > > is not possible to be well-nourished as a long-term > > vegetarian. Women, if memory serves, require 46 > > grams of protein per day and men 58 grams of protein > > per day. One egg supplies a mere 6 grams of protein. > > Even a 3 egg omelot provides only 18 grams. When I > > was at Amritapuri last year my seva was evening > > dinner checker, and I had to see what everyone was > > eating. Most of the people there were really heavy > > into the "virtuous" (or so they think) carbohydrates. > > Some people seemed never to be eating any protein. > > I was appalled and couldn't help but wonder if > > the lack of protein in > > their diets contributes to the very high rate of > > cancer (or so it seems) among Amma devotees and > > other "virtuous" vegetarians I know. Brahmacharini > > Nirmalamrita died of cancer, Swami Paramatmananda > > currently has cancer, and Ron has something > > similar. I could go on, but these are people > > who are well-known. > > > > Two long term vegetarians I know locally had their > > hair analyzed and were told that they were very, > > very deficient in protein. Their solution is to > > have protein at every meal and to eat fish. > > > > I encourage people to get their hair analyzed > > by someone who does hair analysis. Be a > > vegetarian for 27 years before you criticize > > my decision. > > > > In Amma's love, > > Jyotsna > > > > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for > > 16 years and vegan for > > > about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I > > definitely can't eat much > > > dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are > > probably unadvisable, > > > because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may > > exacerbate certain > > > endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to > > our difficulties in having a > > > child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and > > different kinds protein than I've > > > been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has > > been telling me that it needs > > > at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal > > protein that I can even bear > > > to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to > > consuming any animal > > > products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, > > incidentally....if any women in > > > the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who > > works primarily with > > > GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please > > write me, off-list) > > > and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, > > have told me they feel > > > it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while > > trying to conceive. I feel that > > > they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've > > been fighting it for a long time. > > > > > > I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with > > particular health issues to > > > go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect > > she'd tell me the same. > > > > > > Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me > > now....it's hard for me to go with it. > > > > > > I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? > > > > > > > > > Iswari > > > > > > Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc@> wrote: > > > > > > > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot > > eat > > > > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for > > turning > > > > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this > > does > > > > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > > > > become liberated. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Well you already heard from me and I mentioned a little of my experience with other much longer duration vegetarians. - jyotsna2 Ammachi Friday, May 12, 2006 11:46 AM Re: Sacred Cows; is dairy still satvic? Namah Shivayah, Well, if you follow Amma's example, you will be eating fish. Of course she is diabetic, which may be the reason for that, but I know she does eat some fish. As you say vegetarians have a lower risk of "certain" cancers, but inversely, a higher risk of certain other cancers. One devotee at Amritapuri who was exulting to me about the wonders of her grain (quinoa) diet, has now been diagnosed with a "very aggressive" cancer. It makes me very sad to see people suffer. For a while I felt very bad about eating meat (mostly free range chicken) but then a friend sent me a quote by Amma saying that she can make no one prescription for food, as people are so individual. (I'm sorry, but I can't find the quote right now.) Anyway, I had asked Amma's help for a specific heath concern, and I believe this was her answer for me. And as Jesus Christ said, "It's not what goeth in at the mouth that defileth, but what cometh out of the mouth." So Christ apparently did not feel that one has to eat in a certain way. I would like to recommend the books, "Electrical Nutrition" by Denie Hiestand and also "The Perricone Prescription" by Dr. (?) Perricone. He basically says vegetarians have worse skin because they don't get enough "high quality" protein. There's a very interesting, long, and meticulously researched article called "Myths of Vegetarianism" in a 1999 issue of "The Ecologist" magazine by Byrnes. A resident of Fairfield, IA told me that three highly placed TM practicioners had died of the same "very rare" liver cancer. This seems like more than coincidence. Two of my local SRF temple members have died of cancer. When I worked for a large library system, the contrast between the "healthy" librarians and the "unhealthy" vegetarians was striking. Librarians tend to lead moderate lifestyles but do not eschew meat. I think some of the skewing of the statistics in favor of vegetarianism comes from the fact that many meat-eaters (more so than vegetarians) smoke and drink, etc. Alcohol and tobacco are known carcinogens. Also, much of the research is based on Seventh Day Adventists. Since my mother was a SDA for the last 15 years of her life, I know that they constantly have nutrition classes at their church, emphasizing healthy vegetarian food. (And I do love vegetarian food! Yum!) But what I saw in Amritapuri last year was a lot of dinners of rice, cake and lassi. Personally, I'd like to hear from all the long term (over 20 years) vegetarians who are in great health. If vegetarianism is so healthy, why don't I know more healthy old vegetarians? The two healthiest older people I know are farmers that raised their own vegetables and meat. Of course I could be wrong. It's in my horoscope that I will tear down any facade to get at the truth, so I may learn later that this is all wrong, but after so many years of walking the walk and talking the talk of vegetarianism, I'm no longer convinced. Sorry to be a party pooper, Jyotsna Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree> wrote: > > Namah Shivayah, > > I would like to recommend the book, Diet For A New America by John Robbins. The book > deals with the health issues surrounding vegetarianism and has a lot of very interesting > results of studies and statistics relating to the health benefits of the vegetarian diet. > Rather than spending 6 hours listing all of the benefits of a vegetarian diet and all of the > illnesses it can keep at bay, I would just like to recommend this book to anyone who is > interested in exploring the truth of the subject further. There are some vegetables that are > higher in protein than you could possibly imagine (for example spinach and also Quinoa, a > grain). As to vegetarians having more cancer than non- vegetarians...I think that's probably > bunk. I've seen so many statistics on this and none of them insinuate this at all. In fact, > vegetarians have a much lower risk of certain types of cancers, heart disease and the list > goes on and on. > To Iswari, as to the issue of eating eggs and fish to help with a health issue...I am sure > Amma would agree that it is fine. I eat eggs occassionaly when I am not feeling well and I > struggled with this for a long time before realizing I was beating myself up for no reason. I > think it all depends where you heart is at. Would you eat the bloodied corpse of a baby > cow without being affected by it and enjoying the taste without thinking twice of the pain > that baby had to suffer? If so, I think that is a greater problem because then it is an issue > of compassion....which flies in the face of everything Amma teaches. I mean, why isn't > Amma serving veal, hamburgers and chicken wings at the retreats and at the ashram? To > each his own, but I prefer to follow her example. > > Jai Ma! > > Ananthasree > > http://www.ananthasree.com > > > > Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2@> wrote: > > > > Namah Shivayah, > > > > I was a vegetarian for 27 years and am no longer > > after (through Amma's grace) meeting a healer who > > advised me to eat meat. I know this flies in the > > face of what many on this board believe. But I've > > done extensive research and truly believe that it > > is not possible to be well-nourished as a long-term > > vegetarian. Women, if memory serves, require 46 > > grams of protein per day and men 58 grams of protein > > per day. One egg supplies a mere 6 grams of protein. > > Even a 3 egg omelot provides only 18 grams. When I > > was at Amritapuri last year my seva was evening > > dinner checker, and I had to see what everyone was > > eating. Most of the people there were really heavy > > into the "virtuous" (or so they think) carbohydrates. > > Some people seemed never to be eating any protein. > > I was appalled and couldn't help but wonder if > > the lack of protein in > > their diets contributes to the very high rate of > > cancer (or so it seems) among Amma devotees and > > other "virtuous" vegetarians I know. Brahmacharini > > Nirmalamrita died of cancer, Swami Paramatmananda > > currently has cancer, and Ron has something > > similar. I could go on, but these are people > > who are well-known. > > > > Two long term vegetarians I know locally had their > > hair analyzed and were told that they were very, > > very deficient in protein. Their solution is to > > have protein at every meal and to eat fish. > > > > I encourage people to get their hair analyzed > > by someone who does hair analysis. Be a > > vegetarian for 27 years before you criticize > > my decision. > > > > In Amma's love, > > Jyotsna > > > > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I find myself in quite a dietary quandry. I've been vegetarian for > > 16 years and vegan for > > > about 13 or 14 of those years. Do to various medical conditions, I > > definitely can't eat much > > > dairy or soy. Even significant quantities of other legumes are > > probably unadvisable, > > > because the phytoestogens in soy and other beans/pulses may > > exacerbate certain > > > endocrine issues I have and, consequently, may be contribute to > > our difficulties in having a > > > child. I've felt quite strongly that my body needs more and > > different kinds protein than I've > > > been giving it. Truthfully, for about three years, my body has > > been telling me that it needs > > > at least small amounts of egg or fish (the only sort of animal > > protein that I can even bear > > > to contemplate), even as I've had a tremendous aversion to > > consuming any animal > > > products. Both my acupuncturist (who is an Amma devotee, > > incidentally....if any women in > > > the NYC area would like a recommendation for an acupuncturist who > > works primarily with > > > GYN and pregnancy-related issues and who is also a devotee, please > > write me, off-list) > > > and my reproductive endocrinologists, while respecting my limits, > > have told me they feel > > > it's not a good idea for me to be a strict vegetarian, esp while > > trying to conceive. I feel that > > > they are right (at least for while I'm in treatment), but I've > > been fighting it for a long time. > > > > > > I know for a fact that Amma has advised certain individuals with > > particular health issues to > > > go ahead and eat animal products. I have good reason to suspect > > she'd tell me the same. > > > > > > Even though I feel pretty clear it's what's best for me > > now....it's hard for me to go with it. > > > > > > I'm curious if anyone else has faced similar challenges? > > > > > > > > > Iswari > > > > > > Ammachi, "amarnath" <anatol_zinc@> wrote: > > > > > > > > In this context, it is important to understand that "you cannot > > eat > > > > your way to god." A healthy vegan live food diet is best for > > turning > > > > your body into a superconductor for the divine; however this > > does > > > > not necessarily mean that if you eat dairy products you will not > > > > become liberated. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2> wrote: Jyotsna wrote: "Well, if you follow Amma's example, you will be eating fish. Of course she is diabetic, which may be the reason for that, but I know she does eat some fish." Dear Jyotsna: I have been avoiding this thread. Nevertheless Swami Paramatmananda (a Direct Disciple of Amma who is Nealu of "Awaken Children"! gave two or more lectures on Food. Two points may be germaine to Jyostsa's observation. 1) I am not sure this is true. Nevertheless I will give Jyotsna the benefit of the doubt that yes - Amma eats fish. Arguendo, if this is true then Swami P has said that Realized Souls can eat anything. They choose to refrain from meat eating to set an example. However Swami P contended that Mahatma's eg fully liberated Souls do not have to obey any laws or moral codes perse. They always do for our benefit and to highlight Dharma. 2) Swami P. quotes Amma on the subject of fish and meat. Amma said that Her children may have to be flexible depending on their geographic location. For example if one is in the Arctic with no vegetation then eating meat is alright. Another example by Amma is if Fish is your only geographic resource then that too is alright. As you know Amma grew up in a fishing village. Mahatmas have come from such places. There you have my two sardines worth. Namah Shivaya, GeorgeSon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 greeetings beloved brothers and sisters.this is this childs input on this food thing.AMMAs sun hopes that this can help.whatever we are blessed to eat should be done with a greatful attitude.while we debate food issues ,lets not forget that their are millions of starving people including children, that would love to have access to a pork-chop.something we may despise. AMMAs sun has known people that eat healthy,however, their attitude about it was so self-rightous that their souls were either starved or malnutritoned.on the other hand ,AMMAs sun has also known people that ate not so good diets ,but they were kind and loving. AMMA did eat fish when SHE was homeless.the animals brought it to HER.this is in HER bio.while this child was homeless he was greatful if someone brought him anything.AMMAs sun is also just as greatful for the information that his brothers and sisters are sharing with him in regards to eating healthy. the reason JESUS told them THAT "its not what goes into a mans mouth ,but what comes out of his HEART that defiles a man", is because the pharisees and scribes had began to be self-rightous about things such as eating.they ate the strict jewish diet that was considered the best one of that time by them ofcourse ,and yet they were still considered by JESUS to be major hypocrites.in other words ,they put more emphasis on the material aspects of food as apposed to focusing on spiritual food. spiritual food being ofcourse the things that AMMA and JESUS STAND FOR.by all means ,AMMAs sun believes that we should take care of our bodys,for after all they are AMMAs temples.AMMAs sun doesnt think that we should focus on things of the body to the degree that we neglect our souls. focusing on food to much may enable us to become more body-conscious then we realize.when AMMAS sun eats more then one pancake his body gets sluggish.he tried some wheat pancakes one time and this didnt happen.in other words he watched his bodys reaction and now he knows that he cannot eat more then one pancake unless its wheat.that works for this child but some of you may think this child is crazy for eating pancakes at all. each person must do what works for them.we all must be honest with ourselves.as long as we dont become like the pharisees and scribes we will be fine.LOVE YOU >"leokomor" <leokomor > >Ammachi >Ammachi > Re: Sacred Cows; is dairy still satvic? >Fri, 12 May 2006 19:54:26 -0000 > >Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2> wrote: > Jyotsna wrote: > >"Well, if you follow Amma's example, you will be >eating fish. Of course she is diabetic, which >may be the reason for that, but I know she >does eat some fish." > >Dear Jyotsna: > >I have been avoiding this thread. Nevertheless Swami Paramatmananda (a >Direct Disciple of Amma who is Nealu of "Awaken Children"! gave two or >more lectures on Food. > >Two points may be germaine to Jyostsa's observation. > >1) I am not sure this is true. Nevertheless I will give Jyotsna the >benefit of the doubt that yes - Amma eats fish. Arguendo, if this is >true then Swami P has said that Realized Souls can eat anything. They >choose to refrain from meat eating to set an example. However Swami P >contended that Mahatma's eg fully liberated Souls do not have to obey >any laws or moral codes perse. They always do for our benefit and to >highlight Dharma. > >2) Swami P. quotes Amma on the subject of fish and meat. Amma said >that Her children may have to be flexible depending on their geographic >location. For example if one is in the Arctic with no vegetation then >eating meat is alright. Another example by Amma is if Fish is your >only geographic resource then that too is alright. > >As you know Amma grew up in a fishing village. Mahatmas have come from >such places. > >There you have my two sardines worth. > >Namah Shivaya, > >GeorgeSon > > > > _______________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Beautifully put as always, Temba. You are such a blessing to have on here. Adriane > the reason JESUS told them THAT "its not what goes into a mans mouth ,but > what comes out of his HEART that defiles a man", is because the pharisees > and scribes had began to be self-rightous about things such as eating.they > ate the strict jewish diet that was considered the best one of that time by > them ofcourse ,and yet they were still considered by JESUS to be major > hypocrites.in other words ,they put more emphasis on the material aspects of > food as apposed to focusing on spiritual food. > > spiritual food being ofcourse the things that AMMA and JESUS STAND FOR.by > all means ,AMMAs sun believes that we should take care of our bodys,for > after all they are AMMAs temples.AMMAs sun doesnt think that we should focus > on things of the body to the degree that we neglect our souls. > > focusing on food to much may enable us to become more body- conscious then we > realize.when AMMAS sun eats more then one pancake his body gets sluggish.he > tried some wheat pancakes one time and this didnt happen.in other words he > watched his bodys reaction and now he knows that he cannot eat more then one > pancake unless its wheat.that works for this child but some of you may think > this child is crazy for eating pancakes at all. each person must do what > works for them.we all must be honest with ourselves.as long as we dont > become like the pharisees and scribes we will be fine.LOVE YOU > > > > > > > >"leokomor" <leokomor> > >Ammachi > >Ammachi > > Re: Sacred Cows; is dairy still satvic? > >Fri, 12 May 2006 19:54:26 -0000 > > > >Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2@> wrote: > > Jyotsna wrote: > > > >"Well, if you follow Amma's example, you will be > >eating fish. Of course she is diabetic, which > >may be the reason for that, but I know she > >does eat some fish." > > > >Dear Jyotsna: > > > >I have been avoiding this thread. Nevertheless Swami Paramatmananda (a > >Direct Disciple of Amma who is Nealu of "Awaken Children"! gave two or > >more lectures on Food. > > > >Two points may be germaine to Jyostsa's observation. > > > >1) I am not sure this is true. Nevertheless I will give Jyotsna the > >benefit of the doubt that yes - Amma eats fish. Arguendo, if this is > >true then Swami P has said that Realized Souls can eat anything. They > >choose to refrain from meat eating to set an example. However Swami P > >contended that Mahatma's eg fully liberated Souls do not have to obey > >any laws or moral codes perse. They always do for our benefit and to > >highlight Dharma. > > > >2) Swami P. quotes Amma on the subject of fish and meat. Amma said > >that Her children may have to be flexible depending on their geographic > >location. For example if one is in the Arctic with no vegetation then > >eating meat is alright. Another example by Amma is if Fish is your > >only geographic resource then that too is alright. > > > >As you know Amma grew up in a fishing village. Mahatmas have come from > >such places. > > > >There you have my two sardines worth. > > > >Namah Shivaya, > > > >GeorgeSon > > > > > > > > > > _______________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Ammachi, "jyotsna2" <jyotsna2> wrote: > > Namah Shivayah, > ..... > Personally, I'd like to hear from all the > long term (over 20 years) vegetarians who > are in great health. If vegetarianism is > so healthy, why don't I know more healthy > old vegetarians? The two healthiest older > people I know are farmers that raised their > own vegetables and meat. > > Of course I could be wrong. It's in my > horoscope that I will tear down any facade > to get at the truth, so I may learn later > that this is all wrong, but after so many > years of walking the walk and talking the > talk of vegetarianism, I'm no longer > convinced. > > Sorry to be a party pooper, > Jyotsna > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Namaste Jyotsna, I have been a vegetarian for 36 years and a vegan most of the time. When I did try dairy because Ayurveda recommended it, the results were not good. There were other long term vegeterians who posted. So, you do know us. The average American lifespan is about 75 years; the average lifespan of Seventh-Day-Adventists( who mostly are vegetarians ) is about 85 years; and those Seventh-Day-Adventists who live longer than 85 years eat more salads. The best two Nutritionists that I know about are Dr Joel Fuhrman, MD and Dr Gabriel Cousens, MD. Both are vegans and in great health. I met Dr Joel in person and my view of him is that he is a most brilliant MD who specialisez in Nutritional Healing very succesfully. And Surya, I think mentioned that he studied with Dr Gabriel. You can get info about them on : Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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