Beware of Kali's agents

[Guest guest]

Dear Sivarama Maharaja.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your kind words of correction. I am fallen, and you have no

business wasting your time with me. Still you sacrifice your precious time,

to try to guide me and point out my mistakes. I deeply appreciate this.

 

I was offensive, and it is only proper that I meet all reactions that will

follow. I have no intention to try to escape punishment. Still I would like

to apologize for my offensiveness and audacity, in order to express my

subordination and dependance. I hope to thus express my deep respect towards

you and all other senior vaisnavas in our movement.

 

I admit my mistake. I was wrong in my accusations against ISKCON leaders. It

was based on my mistaken assumptions, and was product of my ignorance

combined with passion. Therefore I wish to retract my allegations, and seek

forgiveness for my audacity. I hope that assembled vaisnavas can forgive me,

and let me peacefully meet my own destiny.

 

Now I can see, that there was no reason for my writings, and I myself

created problem, and then got entangled in its web by my own stupidity. I'm

sorry to burden assembled vaisnavas with my lowly presence. I plan to

withdraw entirely from all ISKCON-institution communications, I just await

the final kick, so that I can do so. Please, kindly bless me, that I can

finally be relieved of this burden, which is causing much pain to myself,

and what is more important, it is causing pain to others.

 

Thank you for your well-wishing words. It means a lot to me, that you

personally thought about me even for a moment. I'm just sorry, that it was

in such unfortunate circumstance. I wish I was able to serve you properly.

Nevertheless, I consider this moment as a most precious moment of

association with pure vaisnava, and thus my life is perfect. I just wish I

could be of some actual service to you, and not present myself as

disturbance. Please, be mercifull unto me, and then I can surely become

usefull to devotees, who are sincerely serving in Srila Prabhupada's

mission.

 

Thank you

 

your servant Giri-nayaka das

 

 

> Giri-nayaka Prabhu, since I and the GBC are the brunt of this text I feel

> I should respond to it.

>

> On ISKCON's use of PAMHO:

>

> I would also like to see ISKCON have its own communication system, with

> its own ISKCON friendly standards. PAMHO is a free forum and thus open to

> anyone and anything.

>

> On Satvatove and its founder:

>

> Rtvik is as much a deviation as new age, and therefore both should be

> spoken out against.

>

> On your criticism of the GBC:

>

> Everyone has a right to question ISKCON's leadership, at all levels.

> However there is etiquette involved. That etiquette begins by making sure

> one understand what is being said and why. Then it continues by

> submissively questioning superiors and then giving one's opinion in a

> Vaisnava like way.

>

> Unfortunately you don't seem to understand this process.

>

> You made a wrong assumption: that some ISKCON leaders initially attended

> Satvatove courses knowing they were new age psychology. Then you went off

> on a tirade repeatedly maligning the GBC on a series of unrelated issues,

> still based upon your initial mistake.

>

> The fact is that leaders' initial attendance at Satvatove was based upon

> Dhira Govinda's apparent good standing in ISKCON. His courses were

> anticipated to be of the nature of the VIHE or MIHE. Not new age. I also

> agree that we do not need new age self development processes. We need only

> to present Krsna Consciousness as it is. That is what Sivarama Swami

> believes. Take it from me.

>

> You continued your attacked on the GBC based on this false premise,

> accused their defence of ISKCON as being "political nonsense", and their

> emphasis on KC as a "wave around with suddha bhakti".

>

> When your mistake and excesses were later pointed out, all you could say

> was "seems I got carried away a bit...I've done my part in this

> discussion." Why do you not admit your mistake, retract your allegations,

> and apologize for your audacity, and offensiveness. After all, it was you

> who wove a web of phobia out of nothing.

>

> Prabhuji, you may not fear åtviks' danger to your spiritual life. You need

> not. You are already doing a good enough job of destroying it on your own.

> I suggest you review the consciousness by which you write texts in the

> matter that you do.

>

> I remain your ever well-wisher in the service of Srila Prabhupada.

> Sivarama Swami

>

>

> *> > I personally don't like this "X (All PAMHO users)" conference. I

> would *> > rather prefer to remove it completely.

> *>

> *> imho, "X(All PAMHO users" is a very useful conference and should be

> *> continued although the "qualification" for posting texts there may need

> *> to be reviwed.

> *>

> *

> *The name itself, "X (All PAMHO users)", includes all PAMHO users. Of

> course *this need not mean, that all can post in X, but all are exposed to

> reading *it. By PAMHO membership extending beyond ISKCON, this means that

> X *conference becomes very sensitive point. Of course, one could limit

> posting *to "ISKCON bonafide" only (whatever that is), but what will all

> those *non-ISKCON pamho members think of this. Like ISKCON can post

> anything, and *X must read it, but if others want to post anything, then

> ISKCON can *complain? Besides, who will decide what is bonafide and what

> is not? ISKCON *will enforce its own standard, and others on PAMHO are

> forced to follow it?

> *

> *Proper action for ISKCON would be not to demand, but to create

> ISKCON-only *communication system, and there everybody can be censured and

> repressed as *much as needed, and thus nobody has to (can?) read any

> nonsense and need to *complain about it.

> *

> *Like Ramakanta Prabhu mentioned that, "In 2000 the GBC set up an email

> *service for ISKCON. I don't know what happened with that." I hope

> Lilasuka *Prabhu can comment a bit on this, or maybe ask somebody in

> charge of this *project to comment. Is PAMHO still supposed to provide

> bonafide-ISKCON *level of communication and understanding? Or are we all

> expecting too much *from this system, and should just get used to the fact

> we cannot have *pure-ISKCON system of communication? Will GBC try to set

> rules for PAMHO? *Will GBC create separate, ISKCON system for

> communication, so we can reduce *our expectations about PAMHO? What is the

> plan of GBC regarding this?

> *

> *your servant Giri-nayaka das

> *

> *PS. Sorry for all these questions. But this subject called "Beware of

> *Kali's agents" is quite disturbing to me. Already original post was

> *disturbing, but reply was not pacifying either. I thought original post

> by *Haridhama Prabhu was nonsense, not because of current ISKCON's

> political *view against ritvikism, but because of "development courses"

> and all the *"inner Vaisnava" innovation nonsense.

> *

> *It was interesting for me to read Sivarama Maharaja saying, that "There

> is *only one way, and that is via the process of Krishna consciousness,

> sadhana *bhakti. And such a process is only successful when conducted

> under the *direction of a bonafide spiritual master." This is nectar, and

> I was hoping *for such pure statement.

> *

> *But after reading on, something else came out. Sivarama Maharaja said:

> "As *far as ISKCON leaders attending Satvatove courses, this is a

> misnomer. *Prior to understanding that Dhira Govinda's courses were in

> fact a ruse to *promote his ritvik-vada philosophy, some ISKCON

> devotees--including *leaders--attended the courses. That ISKCON's leaders

> are keen to embrace *processes constructed on the basis Srila Prabhupada's

> teachings is a sign *of healthy leadership, and one that many devotees

> appreciated and emulated. *However, it wasn't long before the truth was

> realized: Dr. David was the *proverbial Wolf in sheep's clothing."

> *

> *It became clear, that actual problem is not in new-age-ish course itself.

> *Problem was not in the method, but the problem was in ritvik-ism of

> *Satvatove leader. Untill Satvatove were considered ISKCON-bonafide,

> leaders *were going there. Nobody thought, that it is nonsense, and that

> we have our *sadhana-bhakti, and no need to practice some new-age stuff.

> Actually, *leaders considered, that Satvatove was most valuable, and they

> saw it as *process "constructed on the basis Srila Prabhupada's

> teachings". Such mood *was considered as "a sign of healthy leadership".

> Satvatove was providing *process, that "many devotees appreciated and

> emulated". But it all changed, *after ritvik invention, after realizing

> "Dr. David was the proverbial Wolf *in sheep's clothing."

> *

> *Now, is sadhana bhakti the only way, or not? Protecting your own

> *institution.... In good or in bad, forever....

>

> *So, it is disturbing and misleading to first read, that we do not need

> any *new-age selfgrowth processes besides sadhana-bhakti, and later on

> realize, *that it is just nice words. If Haridhama was not labeled as

> ritvik, his *institute would still be most bonafade, and all ISKCON

> leaders would be *rushing there for develloping "inner vaisnava". But

> because he is labeled *as ritvik, now immediately we do not need anything

> besides pure *sadhana-bhakti..... Such mood is to me even more disturbing

> than Satvatove *speculations.

> *

> *Sorry for all those hard words, but I needed to say these things. It is

> *just not fair to wave arround with suddha-bhakti and how we do not need

> any *new-age stuff in ISKCON, while actually behind it all is politics and

> *paranoid fear of current ISKCON leaders against ritvik invention.

> *

> *It is sad to see all this fear against ritviks, while at the same time

> all *nonsense karmi methods (polarity managment, mediations, ombuds...)

> are *invented without any fear or discretion. What is the threat of

> ritviks? To *me, none. To most devotees, ritviks are no threat at all. But

> to leaders, *gurus, GBC.... oh, thats another thing. But on the other

> side, all those *GBC-invented karmi managereal inventions are serious

> threat to us all, *because they root us again back in karmi managment

> system of political *cooperation, in system of exploitation for sense

> enjoyment. But thats ok, *ISKCON leaders don't mind putting this nonsense

> on us, injecting it in our *brain as bonafide, and engaging us in begging

> at the feet of politics, *journalists and human-rights protectors, when

> they are unable to solve *certain problem caused to their followers by

> some 3rd world government. We *are instructed to go to karmis, and beg for

> their mercy, and we foolishly *do it, we buy it. Thats how we are

> instructed to proove our unity before *Srila Prabhupada. But ritviks, they

> are worst kind of demons or something, *and if one wants to be

> bonafide-ISKCON-devotee, then he must condemn them *and curse them and

> always criticize them like anything.

> *

> *This is all some political nonsense, a carrot in front of nose of masses,

> *to engage their critical nature in some remote direction, and keep it

> away *from other certain direction.... Make others look bad, so that we

> come out *great... But karmis and their methods are not so bad after-all,

> is it....? *Put down devotees, cooperate with karmis.... where is this

> thing going?

> *

> *Anyway, I've said enough. Although I could say more. And I may in the

> *future. I wonder if anybody sees things similarly to how I see it. Speak

> *up, please!

> *

> *your servant Giri-nayaka das