Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

^^^ LOL see what i mean? What about Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay? Also why BAPS taken Nar Narayan Dev out of the arti?

[Guest guest]

Better we don't discuss this all things. Please post something about shriji charitri and some of your experiences which give us full confidence that shriji maharaj is with us. I think we all are more eager for others more that shri maharaj.

 

sahjanand swami maharaj ni jai.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.

 

Jai of all those devs for which you want to say jay.

[aGnani11]

The words of the Swaminarayan arti are somewhat different because they are based on manuscripts that sadhu scholars of BAPS uncovered. Sadhus of BAPS actually discussed them with the scholars of the Bhuj mandir and have come to a consensus that the manuscript is indeed original and words like "Narayan Nar Bhraataa" were originally written as "Narayan Sukh Daataa" and "Charane shish dharya" is actually "Charane chitta dharya". Those are pretty much the main differences, and they are based strictly on the manuscripts that were discovered.

 

Trust me, it would be sacriligious to just change an original work of a great sadguru sadhu of Swaminarayan. But the words are based on hard evidence of scripts, not through the conjecture of lesser minds.

 

 

OM SHANTI.

[Guest guest]

 

The words of the Swaminarayan arti are somewhat different because they are based on manuscripts that sadhu scholars of BAPS uncovered. Sadhus of BAPS actually discussed them with the scholars of the Bhuj mandir and have come to a consensus that the manuscript is indeed original and words like "Narayan Nar Bhraataa" were originally written as "Narayan Sukh Daataa" and "Charane shish dharya" is actually "Charane chitta dharya". Those are pretty much the main differences, and they are based strictly on the manuscripts that were discovered.

 

Trust me, it would be sacriligious to just change an original work of a great sadguru sadhu of Swaminarayan. But the words are based on hard evidence of scripts, not through the conjecture of lesser minds.

 

 

OM SHANTI.

 

Where did the BAPS scholars discover such material from? As the original Muktanand Kavya is in Vartal Aksharbhuvan. How can you find the original manuscripts? Also what are these so called “original manuscripts” you talk of? Which kavya or works of which nand sant? What’s is this hard evidence you talk of?

 

Also it hasn’t been changed. This is the thing. The original script and even in all the scriptures such as the Satsangi Jivan the Arti sung in Kalvani by Sadguru Nandsant Muktanand Swami is the same one sung in the original Sampraday. But BAPS have changed this version. So your claim doesn’t hold any water.

 

Secondly, you state that BAPS Sadhus discussed this with the Bhuj santos. Care to tell me which saints? As I know every single one of the 180 saints and Parshads. Many of my family are saints.

[Guest guest]

What this all we are talking about?

 

I think basic sense and understanding about the aarti is died permenanently here.

 

Aarti is form of prayer. Why we try to catch the words of the aarti. I think we are trying to put the world in our pocket. It will never possible my frineds. I consistantly observe that some people are behind BAPS. Why you doubt them when they say they have found out some thing. Without asking them about the names of the sadhus of the Bhuj mandir why you don't have your own people to tell you the truth. Presuming that the BAPS are using totally new aarti what is wrong in them. What is the intention of the prayer is to worship god why you want somebody else to pray in a manner in which you like. Please introspect your self where you are wrong. I thing if somebody wants to streamline everything in vadtal gadi it is very difficult and it is not even within the reach of the acharyas also. There are the cases till supremecourt about the matter that who is the person entitled to the gadi of the acharyas. Where is the tyag bhavna. What resourses of this country and judisiary you people are wasting by fighting for minor matters. In vadtal government was compelled to impose carefew for number of times. Why satsangis are not ready to stop on the one word of acharya. Why all court cases are not being withdrawn as our intention to be in satsang is not to fight. I feel and I prey to the lord swaminarayan that please don't show me the days when people used to say oh lord swaminaryan why you have established the swaminarayan dharma because there is nothing is left then fighting with each other. If we claim that we belong to family who has given many sadhus then what this all anger is left within us. We just sit with only one intention and that is let somebody uttar a word and I will start fighting by taking the shelter of shastras and work of old sadhus which no body has seen. And keep on claiming that we are only the right.

 

I never wanted to be so harsh with anybody but please open your eyes and think what you are doing. If lord swaminarayan has sent us here to do this? If you really love vadtal gadi please start fighting against all the wrong things which you feel the same is wrong within the vadtal gadi and its mandir and then I am sure that all power of the lord swaminarayan is with you.

 

In my earlier posting I have requested to post something about the shriji maharaj and his charitra and your experiences about the same. But sad who's interested in that. Sad that we have taken the position that we only are the right and eager to prove that at any cost.

 

The dwar of the moksh is seems to me far far away. Sab ko sanmati de bhagwan.

 

Now I am asking one question out of eagerness to know that if lord swaminarayan was knowing the gujarati language. If any body has his any work in gujarati. In which language lord was communicating the santo and haribhaktos.

 

Jai swaminarayan.

[nav]

 

^^^ LOL see what i mean? What about Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay? Also why BAPS taken Nar Narayan Dev out of the arti?

 

The Baps Santos found the original copy of aarti written by Muktanand Swami. So, according to that they changed Nar-Brahta to Sukhdata.

It is Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Aarti, why need Narnarayan or any other avatars in that.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

Ask my own people? Why should I? Its BAPS who are stating that Bhuj santos agreed to such? BAPS have changed the arti as it didt fit in there way of philosophy. As the words Narayan Nar Bhraata were written by Muktanand Swami. BAPS did not like this. Truth is Muktanand Swamis arti cannot be changed in this way.

 

Also if Nar Narayan Dev wasn’t needed then why did Muktanand Swami put it in in Kalvaani? It has always been sung like this. IEv in 1907 by BAPS it was sung like this. You have changed this lately. You still fail to state the amuscripts that were “later found”.

 

Truth is you have no such manuscripts. You cant go round changing artis in such ways!!! You silly fool. You have just done Khandan of Nar Narayan Dev. Maharaj shall not be happy. How could you have done this? MAhraj is NarNarayan dev. This is His Avtaar. He resides in all The Murtis is established.

 

All power of the Swaminarayan Sampraday is already with the true Bhakts that have refuge under the Dharmkul. Don’t you worry. BAPS followers should read the authentic scriptures. Do they not already do this? If they do then why all these new things they start?

 

Swaminarayan Bhagwan was communication to saints such as Siddhanand swami in hindi and Gujrati saints in gujrati. The Gunatit Parampara is never mentioned in any scripture nor is the Akshar Purshottam upasna.

 

Jay Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

 

The Baps Santos found the original copy of aarti written by Muktanand Swami. So, according to that they changed Nar-Brahta to Sukhdata.

It is Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Aarti, why need Narnarayan or any other avatars in that.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

Oh so now you agree that BAPS changed it because "It is Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Aarti, why need Narnarayan or any other avatars in that".

 

So who's were the manuscript that were found? Who were they by? You still dont provide proof in any way about such so called "manuscripts being found! Who they were by, Its author, Where they were found etc. Still no answer provided as to why the Arti was changed other than " it is swaminarayan's arti that why no need for NAr NArayan Dev".

 

We ll if this was the case then Amdavad, Bhuj, Muli, Vadtal etc were Swaminarayan Bhagwans Mandirs.. Why did then Swaminarayan Bhagwan place these murtis of the avtaars here??You will still coem out with a foolish response. Also please do read the authentic unedited, approved by the acharyas seal of scriptures. Just like Pramuk Swami ni vani states.

 

True Acharya’s!

 

The Acharya's of the Sampraday are more than mere administrative heads. They are the spiritual leaders and the Guru through whom the path to atyantik kalyan (ultimate redemption) is opened.

 

Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) adopted Ayodhyaprasadji from His elder brother Rampratapji and adopted Raghuvirji from His younger brother Ichcharamji. He accepted the two as His own sons and handed the Northern- NarNarayan Dev Desh (diocese) to Ayodhyaprasadji and the Southern- LakshmiNarayan Dev Desh to Raghuvirji in Vadtal on VS 1882 (1826 AD) Kartik Sud 11 - Prabodhini Ekadashi (ironically on the very same day He was given the Acharya-pad by Ramanand Swami).

 

The NarNarayan Desh is based in Amdavad (Ahmedabad) and LakshmiNarayan Desh in Vadtal. Though known as NarNarayan Dev and Lakshminarayan Dev Gadi, both are the Swaminarayan Gadis as they are the only authentic gadis established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself.

 

The Acharyas are householders and their respective wives (Gadiwala) stand as the females’ Guru. The Gadi is passed on to the most capable of the Sons from their family.

The Acharya’s role is to:

 

• initiate followers into the Sampraday with a Samanya Diksha by giving the special guru-mantra

• initiate sadhus (monks, ascetics) by giving them the Maha-Bhagwadi Diksha

• perform murti-pratishtha, install deities in the temples

• authenticate scriptures of the Sampraday

• act as the Guru and leader of the entire Sampraday.

 

These responsibilities have been prescribed in the Shikshapatri, Satsangijeevan and Desh Vibhag no Lekh, and according to these shastras no other individual other than the Dharmavanshi Acharyas are permitted to carry out the above duties. Therefore, the sole authority of the above lies with the two Acharyas.

 

“My Bhramin, Kshatriya and Vaishya followers who have received Shri Krshna Diksha (initiation) from the Dharmavanshi (descendants of Dharmadev) Acharyas, shall wear a double tulsi kanthi (rosary) around their neck and shall wear a U-shaped tilak on their forehead, chest, and both harms.” (Shikshapatri Shlok 41)

 

Therefore, a Swaminarayan follower is only a genuine Swaminarayan follower once he has received diksha from the respective Acharya. A Swaminarayan sadhu is only a genuine Swaminarayan sadhu once he has been given diksha by the Acharyas.

 

In the Shikshapatri (62), Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states:

“And the form of Shri Krshna that has been given by your Acharya for the purpose of your worship and the forms that the Acharya has installed (i.e. in the mandirs) are the only forms of God worthy of worship. The rest are worthy of respect but not worthy of worship”

Therefore, the only murtis (deities) worthy of worship are those installed by the Acharyas.

In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan Bhagwan has placed a lot of importance on the Acharyas.

 

Shlok 71:

“All my followers shall never enter into debate with their Acharyas and shall serve the Acharyas with food, clothing, money etc according to their capacity.”

 

Shlok 72:

“Upon hearing of their coming, my followers should immediately go to greet and welcome the arrival of their Acharyas, and when the Acharya returns from the town my followers shall see them off to the outskirts of the town.”

 

In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharya’s.

 

Sahajanand Swami felt that now that He had established the grand temples and splendid Sampraday, He wanted to keep His sadhus free from the affairs dealing with wealth, power etc. He therefore decided that He would create leaders for each and every sadhu and householder, who will subsequently be responsible for the Sampraday.

This was in accordance with one of His three resolves; i.e. to establish the leaders of the Sampraday from His own family - Dharmakul.

 

Before declaring His intention to select His own family, Lord Shree Swaminarayan first gathered the senior sadhus/saints and followers and revealed His intention to install successors to the leadership.

 

The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji.

 

Lord Shree Swaminarayan was very pleased with this suggestion, for this was His own thinking as well. Since there was no room for discussion or further consideration, it was concluded that Lord Shree Swaminaryan's successors will be from His own Dharmakul and will be householders.

 

Sahajanand Swami then adopted Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirprasadji as His own sons and made them the Acharyas – the Gurus of the Swaminarayan Sampraday.

 

He then declared, “Those who serve these Acharyas with food, jewellery, vehicles, animals, flowers etc shall be worthy of Akshardham…………. I shall emancipate those who serve and respect these Acharyas. Through these Acharyas I shall give kalyaan (give Akshardham) to all souls………." (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 37, Verse 6-20)

“…After a lot of thought and consideration I have decided to give the Gadi to them…” (Chapter 39 Verse 8)

 

“Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.”

 

“So both householders and sadhus obey their (Acharyas’) commands, and not the fancies of the mind. Do not take any actions without their consent…..do not enter into debates with them even if you are greater in knowledge or wisdom…you shall regard the Acharyas as faultless – you shall obey their commands. If you keep them pleased then I will be pleased with you because they are in place of Myself….. I am forever residing in them. I am in them, and they are in Me. I am never far from them and I give darshan (divine sightings) residing in them……….”

 

“I am forever residing in the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. After seeing such followers I have decided to remain here (in the satsang), therefore those who worship the Acharyas have worshipped Me.”

(Purushottam Prakash Chapter 40)

 

The establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas was therefore immensely important for both administrative and spiritual purposes.

 

The constitution of the Sampraday is laid out in Desh Vibhag no Lekh, which describes in detail the functions of the Acharyas.

 

“….it is my command to all sadhus, bhramcharis and all satsangi's, that for the purpose of your kalyaan (emancipation) you must obey and follow the two Acharyas of Dharmavansh, and obey their commands by thought, action and speech. If this is compromised and whoever turns elsewhere (rejecting the Acharyas) will find that they will never find sukh (happiness) in this world or the worlds beyond and will experience immense distress…” (Desh Vibhag no Lekh)

 

Furthermore, in one of the most authoritative scriptures the Vachamanamrut, Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states one of the prerequisites for attaining Akshardham

“…The devotee who is aashrit of Dharmakul (i.e. he who has received initiation from Dharmavanshi Acharya and remains loyal to the Acharya) gets a divine Brahm-state body by God’s wish…” (Vachanamrut, Gadhada Pratham Chapter 1)

So it is imperative to be a humble loyal follower of the Dharmavanshi Acharya once receiving the diksha (guru mantra) in order to be qualified to achieve a Brahm form.

Even Gunatitanand Swami, one of the main sadhus of Swaminarayan Bhagwan states “He who insults the temples, Acharyas, sadhus and satsangi’s will find his roots being destroyed and will inevitably fall from the satsang.” (Swami ni Vato Prakran 5, Vat 104)

Sahajanand Swami has decided to remain on this earth in His Acharyas. They are a version of Him. Being Purushottam Narayan Bhagwan, Sahajanand Swami kept an eternal method of attaining Akshardham by first requiring followers to obtain gurumantra or diksha and obey and respect the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. This is a system, which He has established for each and every follower. It was not a system that was to be changed or altered in the future in any way.

 

In S.G. Nityanand Swami's Shree Hari-Digvijay (endorsed by Lord Shree Swaminarayan) a debate between many great Vedic pundit- scholars and Lord Shree Swaminarayan is well documented.

 

The pundits challenge Lord Shree Swaminarayan's establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. It was argued that a householder being a leader of renunciates (sadhus etc.) was anti-Vedic and had no firm basis in the scriptures of the Sanatan Dharma.

 

Lord Shree Swaminarayan explained in detail how it is in fact preferable to have householders leading a fellowship that consists of male and female renunciates and grihastha - householders.

 

He provided scriptural evidence for this and stated examples such Vyasji, the founder of the 4 Vedas and 18 Purans and considered the 'Universal Guru' in whose memory we have 'Guru-Poornima'.

 

Rishi Vyas was in fact a householder. Similarly, Rishis Vasishta and Yagyavalkya were also householders as was Brahmarshi Vishwamitra. A more distinct example is of Shukadevji, who recited the Srimad Bhagwat to King Parikshit, was a shishya (disciple) of King Janaka.

Therefore, the gathering of pandits and scholars agreed that the setup of Dharmavanshi Acharyas was more than coherent with the Vedic Dharmas and was worthy of honour and admiration.

 

Today there exist many sects that claim they are following the philosophies of Shree Swaminarayan Bhagwan, where in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As Swaminarayan Bhagwan has emphasised, there is no Akshardham for those who do not honour, obey, respect and serve the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, no matter how great a devotee they are.

 

It has now become necessary to question ‘Swaminarayan Temples’ whether they are in fact Swaminarayan Temples since the deities appear not to have been installed by the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, which is an outright breach of Swaminarayan Bhagwan’s likings (refer Shikshapatri Shlok 10 and then Shlok 62).

 

It has also become necessary to question the authenticity of ‘Swaminarayan’ sadhus. According to the scriptures mentioned, a Swaminarayan Sadhu is he who has received the initiation (maha-bhagwati diksha) from Dharmavanshi Acharya- no one else.

 

Once this has been appreciated, one can realise the true grandeur of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. They are another form of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and though they appear as humans, they are at a status even higher than Akshar-Muktas. Therefore all Swaminarayan Satsangis should obtain initiation from one of the two Dharmavanshi Acharyas and remain under the instructions and always honour and respect them as they would Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself. Also get Gyaan from Santos who are given Bhagwati Diksha by these Acharyas. As santos are the doors to Akshardhaam.

[Guest guest]

What a sad thing is going on.

 

You try to prove that only acharyas can make your kalyan.

 

As I mentioned earlier the appointment of acharyas is conditional and with a some view of the lord swaminarayan. If the view of the lord swaminarayan is not achieved then whats the use of it. Lord swaminarayan has never given the power to acharyas to allow murder and that all things in sampraday under his leadership. You want to quote gunatitanand swami but not to worship him.

 

You are not ready to understand the purpose of the aarti. Again and again I am compelled to say that any aarti is not depend on its word but the bhav behind it. I think if lord swaminarayan is alive today you people must have banned him to kept him under your eye watch.

 

Again I am telling you that introspect yourself. Fight against the evil within the sampraday. If you don't know that what it is then please go and read the news papers. Commen people have got the impression that the swaminaryan belivers are useless. This is because of what. Don't try to estimate the lord swaminarayan with your mind. He is beyond that. Why there were attempt of murder on the shastriji maharaj and so much crulty on the yogiji maharaj. If the then acharyas were ingonerant about the same.If lord swaminarayan has given them the leadership to do this.

 

Anyway past is past. In all satsangs there are always foolish satsangis who always create this type of situation. In BAPS also I have seen that some satsangi are so much over and even they deliver lacture against the old gadi in sabha and they feel that they are great. Who has given you the power. Shastriji maharaj and yogiji maharaj and pramukh swami maharaj are always in decipline and who you to talk like anything wihout understanding.

 

My dear friend and brother, if your anger is against such foolish satsangis then forget it beacuse this type of people are always there since the time of lord ram and they have not stoped in blaming even sita mata then who are we.

 

Stop fighting. Don't fight.

 

Jaiswaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

I'd like to know who gives diksha to women in BAPS?

[Guest guest]

You state don’t fight but its you who instigates it all.

 

First of all if you read my post carefully I do not state that the Acharyas are the only way to Kalyaan so quit accusing me of such. Also your English is pretty bad so I can’t understand your words much. Nishkulanand Swami clearly indicated in Purushottam Prakash that Bhagwan clearly indicated that Acharyas are the fourth doors to Akshardham. He didn’t mention a so called Gunatit Parampara nor is it mentioned in any orthodox scripture. This was made in 1907.

 

Also BAPS have changed Muktanand Swamis arti which is really bad. I mean if they change the arti then what to talk of the orthodox scriptures? How could you do such? Muktanand Swami created the arti at the start of when Bhagwan was instilled as the Dharmguru. It was sung all the way through His lifetime. All the way through after His antardhyaan lila and after. Why then have BAPS recently decided to change it? I have still not found any evidence of why.

 

Also you yourself are a hypocrite because you yourself are going against Gunatitanand Swamis vato by doing ninda of the Dharmvanshi Acharyas. So imagine the guru droh and vachan droh performed!!

 

Also Gunatitanand Swami is not to be worshipped. You have followed this philosophy very wrongly. This is against Swaminarayan Bhagwans teachings, against the Vedas and also against Ramanuj Acharyas Bhashya and obviously against the orthodox teachings of the Sampraday that Swaminarayan Bhagwan established. We follow the Vishistadvait Philosophy of Ramanuj Acharya.

 

 

In Sadguru Nirgun Swami vaato 60.

 

Shriji Maharaj Shri Gadhpur madhe viraajman hata. Potani aaghar sadhu harijan ni sabha bethi hati. Eh samay Shriji raaji thay ne Gunatitanand Swami pratye bolya ke “aah haar pehro ane aajthi tame jirangadh (Junagadh) na Mahant”. Gunatitanand Swami kahe “nah Maharaj mare mahantay noh haar pehrvo nathi”. Chahta Maharaj kahe “pehro”.

 

Maharaj no gano agrah joi ne Gunatitanand Swami bolya ke “ah Gopalanand Swami prativarsh ek maas mane bhagvad katha kehva jirangadh padhaare toh haar pehrvu”. Eh saambhri Maharaj Gopalanand Swami ne puchyu “Kem Gopalanand Swami, Gunatitanand Swami ne bhagvad katha prativarsh tame Junagadh jasho?” Gopalanand Swami kahe “Maharaj, aap jem agna karsho tem karish”. Etle Maharaje Gunatitanand Swamine kahyu ke “Gopalanand Swami Junagadh avvani haa pade che. Maate tame haar pehro”.

 

Pachi Gunatitanand Swami haar pehryo ne mahant thaya. Tyathi Gopalanand swami pan pote pruthvi upar rahya sudhi Bhagwanni vato kehva prativarsh Junagadh Padharta hata; ane koi varas na javaay to bije varase jaine beh maas rehta hata.

 

108-109 it states:

 

Potane deh mukva aada paanch divas rahya hata tyare Shriji Maharaj ardhi raatre bolya ke "amari pase kaun che?" etle kahyu ke "Mulji Brahmchari, Shukmuni, tatha Ratanjibhai tran jan che". Sambhri Shriji Maharaj Bolya ke "Ek Muktanand Swami pan bolvavi laavo pan bija koi nahi".

 

Pachi Ratanjibhai Muktanand Swami ne bolaavi lavya ane teh avi ne Maharaj paase betha. Maharaje temne puchyu ke "amaro vishvaas che?" temre kahyu ke "amare tamro sampurna vishvaas che". Pachi Shriji Maharaj kahyu ke "Tame sarvo Gopalanand Swami ni agna ma rehjo, Akshardhaam ma pan teh sarvane vartaave che. Ane Jeh Mool Akshar che tej eh che".

 

Muktanand Swami bolya ke "Maharaj, eh toh mota che!" Pan atla divas eh vaat amne kem na kahi?" tyare shriji bolya ke "atla divas na kahi, teh toh ketlak juna ne theek na pade teh mate na kahi pan have emni agna mah rehjo". Etle Muktanand Swami bolya ke, Maharaj ame nischay emni agna mah rehshu". Em kahi ne vandan karya.

 

There is much more about Gopalanand Swamis talks about teaching Gunatitanand Swami about his Bahayvrutti being siddh hence he has vikshep in samadhi. So Gopalanand swami taught Gunatitanand Swami over the how to meditate without being troubled by Vikshep.

 

Very true of agnaani however. I mean the political side will never end. But lets focus on the spiritual side of the Siddhants of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Its true that BAPS were later formed and the Mool Sampraday is the refuge of the Dharmvansh.

 

Gunatiatand Swami is to be quoted and respected but not worshipped like GOd.

[Guest guest]

You said “Gunatiata nand Swami is to be quoted and respected but not worshiped like God.”

 

I can tell you a simple example. What happen when we do padhramni of santo at our home. We touch their feet and give all respect. Why we do that. We do that because we feel that by this way lord swaminarayan will be happy. Here it is our efforts to become brahmrup for the parbrahm. This is nothing but the worship and pray of the santo. And I feel that here itself the principle of brahm and parbrahm is proved. And what is the moksh nu dwar. The person through whom you get the enlightenment is the moksh nu dwar. For Valmiki Rushi the Narad Muni was the moksh nu dwar.

 

I never try to instigate any fight. Yes, I have asked a direct question to you and if you don't like it that does not mean that I am trying to instigate any fight. Unless and until we don't accept that there is some problem and try to show the problems of others with intent to hide our problems then I don't think we will crack the crux of the issue.

 

So far as the issue of arti is concerned. I tell you that I have seen the old books of BAPS in that the narayan nar is mentioned. Now it is changed. So it is difficult to doubt the intention. If the intention is to change everything then they must have done the same long back. The concept of akshar and purshottam is not come out after the BAPS came into existence. It was very much there before the separation of BAPS from the Vadtal Gadi. You mentioned the muktanand swami has prepared the wordings of the arti and everybody is following the same since then. But to get entitlement to the moksh everyone needs to reach the level of muktanand swami.If you offer arti to god in any other form or words then do you think that sahjanand swami maharaj throw away that and say that please don't do the arti as the same is not as prepared by the muktanand swami. No he really won't do that. Lord swaminarayan had made kalyan of even those people who had never worshiped him but for one prasnag or other kept his respect. It is accepted fact by the god also that in different yug and in different time people worship god in different form. Now, if all the avtar of the narayan starts fighting that our form of god should only be worshiped by the people then what happen. It is not possible. Narayan bhagwan knows that and that is the reason why he is taking the different avtars.

 

I have never done ninda of any acharyas. I have tried to mention only that what was happened in the past. The requirement of the guru and acharyas are for keeping the control of the sanstha. Actually what happened practically, when people are in satsang they won't see the god then they feel to met or likes to belongs to be someone who they feel that are near to god and in that way they respect the gurus and acharyas. In this way if somebody have got the faith in the gunatitanand swami and his followers then I feel that there is nothing wrong in that. Yes as per your argument they may not belongs to original but they are belongs to lord swaminarayan and don't you feel that it is enough. Lord Swaminarayan never belongs to any old or new group. Now groups for him this all groups and afterthought by we people. Lord Swaminarayan is belongs to all who worshiped him with pure heart. In India generally there is one temple of lord shiv in each area. Now, if all the sankracharyas will come and say that this all temples are not real as we have not made them then nobody will belive it. Temples are not belongs to anybody they made out of and belongs to faith of the people in god.

 

 

You said that “Also you yourself are a hypocrite because you yourself are going against Gunatitanand Swamis vato by doing ninda of the Dharmvanshi Acharyas. So imagine the guru droh and vachan droh performed!!

 

So far as hypocrisy is concerned better that everybody try to see his own actions and the answer will be come from within. In my earlier posting I have mentioned many instances of non-compliances of shikshapatri vachan by most of the followers of lord swaminarayan. The main weakness in the presentation of the hindu religion is that it is always mentioned that you have committed a great droh, great sin and now what will happen to you. It is always tried to mention that god and guru and acharyas will punish you if you do some thing like that and that. But the reality is that the god and guru and acharyas are here for not to punish people but to love people.

 

Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan, Swaminarayan.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

First of all saints come to our home for Padhramani they too are carried out by doing pujan and touch there feet. There is a vast difference between Pujan and Upasna. You do Upansa of Gunatitaand Swami. There is a difference between worship and veneration my friend. This was never the case at the time of Bhagwan nor has it been under the Dharmvanshi Acharya. Yes santo are Moksh nu dwaar we to believe this.

 

Secondly the answer to your question is no. Swaminarayan Bhagwan wouldn’t say that only Muktanand Swamis arti can be changed. However, there is a big differene between changing that already exist and composing your own subject. For example the arti once upon a time created by Sadguru Muktanand Swami being changed is different than BAPS creating its own Arti. See? You can’t change something that exist and created by Muktanand Swami. Akshar Purushottam Sanstha was established in 1907. Whoever supported such a devoid Upasna too went in 1907 out of Vadtal Swaminarayan Mandir. Therefore it is right to understand that the minority of the followers of such a devoid way of worship also broke away from the Sampraday which Swaminarayan Bhagwan established. Doing such is and will be against the wished of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. This can be clearly seen within the scriptures especially the Desh Vibhaag no Lekh.

 

If BAPs can be said to have kept respect for Bhagwan then the Arti and the likes would never be changed. You cannot even respect Muktanand Swamis works let alone Bhagwan Swaminarayans and then you come on here doing ninda of the Acharyas which is very bad, as your earlier post clearly states such ninda. Bhakti without Dharm, correct way of Upasna and Agna are devoid.

 

In Sadguru Nirgun Swami vaato 60.

 

Shriji Maharaj Shri Gadhpur madhe viraajman hata. Potani aaghar sadhu harijan ni sabha bethi hati. Eh samay Shriji raaji thay ne Gunatitanand Swami pratye bolya ke “aah haar pehro ane aajthi tame jirangadh (Junagadh) na Mahant”. Gunatitanand Swami kahe “nah Maharaj mare mahantay noh haar pehrvo nathi”. Chahta Maharaj kahe “pehro”.

 

Maharaj no gano agrah joi ne Gunatitanand Swami bolya ke “ah Gopalanand Swami prativarsh ek maas mane bhagvad katha kehva jirangadh padhaare toh haar pehrvu”. Eh saambhri Maharaj Gopalanand Swami ne puchyu “Kem Gopalanand Swami, Gunatitanand Swami ne bhagvad katha prativarsh tame Junagadh jasho?” Gopalanand Swami kahe “Maharaj, aap jem agna karsho tem karish”. Etle Maharaje Gunatitanand Swamine kahyu ke “Gopalanand Swami Junagadh avvani haa pade che. Maate tame haar pehro”.

 

Pachi Gunatitanand Swami haar pehryo ne mahant thaya. Tyathi Gopalanand swami pan pote pruthvi upar rahya sudhi Bhagwanni vato kehva prativarsh Junagadh Padharta hata; ane koi varas na javaay to bije varase jaine beh maas rehta hata.

 

108-109 it states:

 

Potane deh mukva aada paanch divas rahya hata tyare Shriji Maharaj ardhi raatre bolya ke "amari pase kaun che?" etle kahyu ke "Mulji Brahmchari, Shukmuni, tatha Ratanjibhai tran jan che". Sambhri Shriji Maharaj Bolya ke "Ek Muktanand Swami pan bolvavi laavo pan bija koi nahi".

 

Pachi Ratanjibhai Muktanand Swami ne bolaavi lavya ane teh avi ne Maharaj paase betha. Maharaje temne puchyu ke "amaro vishvaas che?" temre kahyu ke "amare tamro sampurna vishvaas che". Pachi Shriji Maharaj kahyu ke "Tame sarvo Gopalanand Swami ni agna ma rehjo, Akshardhaam ma pan teh sarvane vartaave che. Ane Jeh Mool Akshar che tej eh che".

 

Muktanand Swami bolya ke "Maharaj, eh toh mota che!" Pan atla divas eh vaat amne kem na kahi?" tyare shriji bolya ke "atla divas na kahi, teh toh ketlak juna ne theek na pade teh mate na kahi pan have emni agna mah rehjo". Etle Muktanand Swami bolya ke, Maharaj ame nischay emni agna mah rehshu". Em kahi ne vandan karya.

 

There is much more about Gopalanand Swamis talks about teaching Gunatitanand Swami about his Bahayvrutti being siddh hence he has vikshep in samadhi. So Gopalanand swami taught Gunatitanand Swami over the how to meditate without being troubled by Vikshep.

[nav]

 

I'd like to know who gives diksha to women in BAPS?

 

There are no women Sadhus in BAPS. All women stay in their Niyams as mentioned in Shikshapatri and do Satsang. If you are talking about the intiation into Satsang then it is done by senior Satsangis in women.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

There are no women Sadhus in BAPS. All women stay in their Niyams as mentioned in Shikshapatri and do Satsang. If you are talking about the intiation into Satsang then it is done by senior Satsangis in women.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

You fail to give your views on my post above and instead just ignore it.

 

secondly, Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself established the Sankhyog Bhakts into the holy fellowship. Take a look within the Nishkulanand Kavya, Satsangi Jivan, Dharmamrut etc. And for the likes of you even Gunatitanad Swami talks about the Sankhyogi Baios refering to the mas 'doshis' who will give moksh to thousands! Thats if you are reading the unedited version.

 

All women have in BAPS have no female guru in BAPS. Whereas Bhagwan Swaminarayan did not reccomend male gurus for the females take a look at Haricharitra Chintamani, Satsangi Jivan and Dharmamrut. If you want any refernces i will give them to you no problem. So dont try and come on here by saying that women in BAPS follow stay in their niyams from the Sikshapatri and stay in Satsang. As bhakts should refer to the Scriptures of the sampraday for in depth dharms and agnas. Are you trying to say that women or Sankhyogi baios under the orthodox Swaminarayan do not stay under their niyams? As There are many refernces to the Sankhyogi baios getting initiated by accepting a Sankhyogi guru in the presence of Shriji Maharaj and this parampara carried on. There are many references to this. For example Kailsahba of Gadhpur today is the direct in line disciple of Laduba. Kailashba has also had darshan of God. But dont worry we dont place her on a throne nor worship her in such ways. Truth is she wouldnt even want to be worshipepd in this manner.

 

Also initiation of females in satsang... you state that senior satsangi women initiate them. Well how does a senior women get such authority? As the yare not Sankhyogi baios, nor the Gadiwala nor the guru patni. Which scripture allows such an initiation to the female satsangi? Which leela also does the same?

 

Jay Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

I think swaminarayan satsangi's are forget to respect women. They want to drag them in politics by taking shelter of scriptures.

 

 

Lord krishna has helped drawpadi in chirharan. Lord krishna never went to find out that whether drawpadi has made any guru or not. Meera met shyam without any guru.

 

All santos, acharyas and sadhus are here on this earth as agent of the god. Please don't forget that the doors of the god are through channel of the middle men only you can get him directly. And that direct rout is by way of bhakti and love for god. You can't stop anybody in loving god. God is not a thing to sell and any middle man will never success to keep monopoly of god.

 

It is good that you read the scriptures but please read the heart of the shriji maharaj also and stop draggin woman in discussion to achiev your political intention.

 

Jai swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

Enough is enough.

 

Now swaminaryan satsangis want to stop womans in taking initiative to meet god.

 

Stop this all. Atleast don't try to interfear the wish of god and allow him to decide that with whom he can meet.

 

Don't forget you are worshiping radha mata. Not don't raise the question that who is the guru of radha and how she can met with krishna.

 

Jai swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

You ritghtly said that Santo moksh nu dwar che.

 

I never maid any ninda of any acharyas. I have tried to mention the view of the lord swaminaryan. The appointment of acharyas are subject to certain views of the lord swaminarayan. This is mentioned in shiksha patri.

 

Why don't we try to keep aside all the scriptures for a while and decide that we are a good human being. We don't want to hurt anybody.

 

In each individual atma is living as a sakshi bhav. Why we always try to see that other is right or wrong.

 

You said that "Whoever supported such a devoid Upasna too went in 1907 out of Vadtal Swaminarayan Mandir"

 

Do you think that any devoid upasna will go long for a 100 years. Why you forget that 'dambh no dasko and satya ni satabdi'. If your this statement is not ninda. What you achiev by going someone out of vadtal mandir. Just ask one simeple question to lord swaminarayan that if he has build mandirs to kept somebody out of it. How real god thinks like this?

 

It is used to said in sampraday that 'mare marji vina re koi thi tranu na todai'. It means without wish of lord swaminarayan nothing will happen. And still you belive that BAPS is against the wish of lord swaminarayan. Why you try to limit the wish of supreme lord swaminarayan within few books. If you see each vachnamrut the santos are eagerly hearing him as he is saying the some thing for the first time. How one can jump to the conclusion that shriji maharaj has told us everything what he wanted to say. Again I say that shri hari ni gati akal che and no one can try to estimate the same.

 

Jai swaminaryan.

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan,

 

Once again we have a BAPS Vs Swaminarayan Sampraday debate. I really do not know what is going to be achieved from it, as devotees of BAPS cannot accept scriptural evidence as they are too engrossed in Pramukh Swami.

 

However let me input a few things to consider.

 

The last post by a guest states that he has never done ninda of an acharya. Let us leave the ninda of the acharya to the side for them moment and think of perhaps the ninda of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. You may ask how is that?

 

Take a read of Shikshapatri slokh 3. Let me write it out in gujrati - Shri Dharmadev thaki che janam jemno aevaa je amaaraa bhai raamprataapji tathaa irchaaraamji, temnaa putra je Ayodhyaaprasaad naame ane Raghuvir naame, jene ame amaara dattputra karine sarve satsangina achaaryapanaane vishe sthaapan karya che.

 

Maharaj states that he has adopted the 2 and placed them as acharyas of ALL satsangis(those who follow swaminarayan). Correct me if i am wrong but you do not accept the acharayas or their authority, yet you claim to believe in swaminarayan bhagwan? In other words to be a satsangi you must accept the acharyas. However by saying you follow swaminarayan bhagwan yet do not accept the acharayas means you are doing ninda of both bhagwan and the acharya.

 

You say you have tried to mention the view of lord swaminarayan, yet you rarely reference scriptures, so one will question are these really the views? One would think that the views can be estimated from reading the core scriptures ie. Shikshapatri, Vachanamrut and Satsangi Jeevan.

 

Next you say the appointment of acharyas are subject to certain views of lord swaminarayan, this to me seems an attempt to discredit the appointment of the acharyas and in reality all you are doing is insulting bhagwans decision to place them as leaders of the sampraday. This is all happening due to devotees of BAPS accepting the Gunatit Parampara yet there is no evidence of its appointment according to the scriptures so they generally resort to discrediting maharajs actions. Great ideology isnt it, discredit what is set up by bhagwan himself and praise a man made set up, and you say your a devotee of Bhagwan Swaminarayan? please state where it is stated in the shikshapatri that acharayas have been appointed subject to certain views, as i can provide a direct reference from the Satsangi Jeevan which gives a clear insight into why and how the acharayas were established.

 

next you say why dont we keep aside all the scriptures for a while and decide that we are a good human being. I don't know about the devotees of BAPS but the devotees of the Swaminarayan Sampraday are taught that if you act according to the scriptures then you are a good human being, so scriptures are a core factor when determining this. Also question is not about hurt, it is about moksh and how to achieve it, the way it was prescribed by bhagwan swaminarayan, or is it the way we percieve it to be? The first seems like the best option

 

I noticed in a past post that a devotee of BAPS, Nav i think it was stated that not all devotees of the Swaminarayan Sampraday follow all the slokhs of the Shikshapatri, which was in reply to the Vimookh classification stated in slokh 207. Nav you never really gave the answer, i know many who are not follwing every single slokh of the shikshapatri yet believe in Swaminarayan Bhagwan are they vimookh? Im sure it is the same in BAPS, so does this mean they are all vimookh? You need to understand the slokh and read the arthadeepika and think about it. Even at the time of Maharaj there were devotees who did not follow all slokhs yet they were not classed vimookhs, why? It is because even though did not follow it they strived to do so, they accepted the commmand, hence they were not vimookh. Now we come to the devotees of BAPS and if the vimookh classification stated in the slokh applies or not. Devotees of BAPS clearly do not follow certain slokhs ie acharayas realted slokhs and they will never strive to follow them, worst thing is they do not accept them and in fact disregard them. From this we can derive that they are the vimookhs which maharaj talks of. To rid yourself of this title you must accept all slokhs, quite simple.

 

Finally you say use the oradanu pad 3 to substantiate your claims. It is true that without maharajs marji nothing happens but note this includes wars, terrorism, violence etc both you and i know that these are not right so you cannot use this verse to back up your claim of baps being true. Note time is not the true test of correct method/mode of upaasna.

 

You say do not limit the wish of bhagwan swaminarayan within a few books but bhagwan swaminarayans wish and instrcutions to his devotees was to follow these few books carefully as they are a means moksha.

 

You state that, How one can jump to the conclusion that shriji maharaj has told us everything what he wanted to say. We can do so because before leaving his vibhav form maharaj states that i have completed my task, note this is stated in the satsangi jeevan. Are you trying to say maharaj did not complete everything? It seems to me that the devotees of BAPS question the acts of their god quite a bit after a read of this post. Questioning the acts of bhagwan will cause you to fall from satsang, that is if you already havent? Saying that you never were in the swaminarayan satsang as you do not accept the words of your lord so how can you be a devotee. Look up the definition of devotee, it means accepting the commands of the master, which you clearly are not prepared to do so.

 

Harsh isnt it, unfortuantely that is reality. If you desire moksha then read the scriptures with an unbiased view and accept all. If you are happy in your more cosy way then carry on, but i can guarantee it will not get you moksha in this life. Chant the name swaminarayan and perhaps in your next life you may get the chance. However those who have understood his glory fully do not have time to waste or lives to waste, one mistake may lead to many which may mean a downward spiral and back into the cycle of life and death with crores of births to take before ultimate redemption.

 

When you develop this type of thought process you will not accept words from anyone else to be true no matter how great they may seem to be, but the words of bhagwan himself are of most dearest to you. I wish you all the best in you quest for moksha.

[Guest]

Beautifully put by the guest above.

 

 

I think swaminarayan satsangi's are forget to respect women. They want to drag them in politics by taking shelter of scriptures.

Lord krishna has helped drawpadi in chirharan. Lord krishna never went to find out that whether drawpadi has made any guru or not. Meera met shyam without any guru.

All santos, acharyas and sadhus are here on this earth as agent of the god. Please don't forget that the doors of the god are through channel of the middle men only you can get him directly. And that direct rout is by way of bhakti and love for god. You can't stop anybody in loving god. God is not a thing to sell and any middle man will never success to keep monopoly of god.

It is good that you read the scriptures but please read the heart of the shriji maharaj also and stop draggin woman in discussion to achiev your political intention.

Jai swaminarayan.

 

What are you on about? First of all you should through scriptures learn how a saint is initiated into teh fellowship i.e. through the Bhagvati diksha given by the Acharya.

 

Nobody is stopping anyone from loving God. You state so many foolish remarks. The first step in loving God is to do as God requires for the devotee. In order to have love God you would do as HE says no?

Nor are women being dragged here. Just because BAPS do not have the answer to the question i earlier posed as to:

 

1. How do "senior" women have the authority to initiate females in BAPS.

2. Which scripture allows such an initiation to the female satsangi?

3. Which leela of Shriji MAharaj indicates thus?

4. Why do BAPS not have Sankhyogi female devotees? As this Paramapara has been carried down from Shriji Maharajs time, as this is what Shriji Maharaj willed.

 

For example one of His names is Aum Shri Sadhvidharmpravartkaay Namaha. The one who established the Sadhvi Dharm for females as male sadhus already existed.

 

Also you state that women are being disrespected. I want to know how are they being disrespected? I would and so many unbiased sources indicate that the yare being treated fairly and with utmost respect. So why to you as BAPS followers suggest such?

 

Also by the way Radhaji doesnt need a guru as she Herself is Bhagwans Shakti not a baddha Jeev. Not just that but when she was incarnated as a female in Barsane in U.P she actually had a guru called Bhagavati Paurnamasi and was initiated. So it goes to show. You shouldnt "put aside scriptures for a minute like one of the BAPS follower mentions.

BAPS, as followers of a so called religious movement you should have answers for such questions.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay

Lakshmi Narayan Dev Ni Jay

 

m_bhudia@hotmail.co.uk

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan.

 

I think my dear friend who has posted above his views about the women has not left with anything then to think about the woman satangis and BAPS.

 

It appears that the fear of BAPS is within you. So by seeing or reading anything you feel that BAPS is there.

 

Why you are so much worried about that the bios are not there in BAPS.

 

You try to establish that the woman followers of BAPS has no right and place to worship lord swaminarayan.

 

Please understand that Lord Swaminarayan has not given any right to decide his wish. Do you mean to say that woman of this world has no right to worship lord swaminarayan without any female guru. Then you have never understood the god. You said that who is stopping to love god. Then what you are trying for. You try to stop the doors of the god without his permission. Better once you read the shrimad bhagwat (shikshapatri also recommends it) and then you understand the love of woman for god and how the god is always there to bind himself to this love. Lord swaminarayan also said that if one don't know how to read the shiksha patri then just keep the same with him/her and do the pooja for it. It means that your love for lord swaminarayan is just enough to reach him.

 

You mean to say that if some woman who is not at all aware about the swaminarayan sampraday but who god shradha in lord swaminarayan just by seeing the murti of lord then she needs to go throgh all scriptures and loads of books and thenafter only she is entitled to love and pray god if fits into your interpretation.

 

The great poet Akha has rightly said that-

 

Pothi padhta pandit thaya

Jap mala na naka gaya

toy na awyu akha brahm gyan.

 

Jai Swaminaryan.

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan

 

It seems to me that many of the BAPS posters on this forum are not willing to look at evidence (ie Scriptural) and just form an opinion. Let me give an example, if a crime were to be comitted and there was core evidence showing that the person in question is guilty, yet evidence is not looked upon and just his character is referred to. It is the same with the BAPS devotees there is substantial evidence to prove that their sect/cult is false and has not been approved by Bhagwan Swaminarayan, yet they are not prepared to look at the evidence and turn a blind eye, (even in the shikshapatri - a scripture read on a daily basis).

 

I would also like to state that the reason that we post is not due to fear of BAPS but fear of potential devotees going down the wrong path (ie incorrect mode of upaasna). Remember the term Sarva Jiva Hitavaha!

 

Dear guest you need to understand that his wish has been presented in the scriptures so why do we need to debate about you may ask? well simply the fact because you are not willing to accept his wish which has been stated in the scriptures.

 

Of course every soul has a right to worship bhagwan, but every soul must also follow the commands of bhagwan in order to reach him. Note you believe in him and accept him to be god but until you follow the commands you will not be able to recieive moksha and that is crystal clear in the scriptures.

 

To your next point of what if they dont know of swaminarayn sampraday and follow just bhagwan swaminarayan in anyway possible then they would come under mudh category. They would be forgiven but unfortunately not recieve moksha in this birth, take a read of Gadhada Pratham 33 for types of Aashro and which is the best - Gnaan aashro. Fact is many of BAPS devotees do not fall into mudh as they can read english, gujrati, hindi etc. So unfortuantely they have no excuse, rules are clearly stated in shikshapatri which is simple to understand yet you still disregard them. Also rules for females devotees are clearly stated in shikshapatri along with rules for males, both require initiation from the acharaya or his wife to enter the satsang.

 

Next you state what you call a great poet yet shreeji maharaj in Gadhada Madya 35 states not to listen to poems of Kabir and Akha, yet you and the whole of BAPS do not follow this. Are you sure you have understood the concept of Swami-Sevak Bhav or are you just taught Pramukh Swami-Sevak Bhav? Please read the scriptures more carefully as they are a means to moksha, Shravan bhakti is regarded the most important bhakti, but it is to what you listen or do shravanam of which is the essence. Swamini Vaato are good to a certain extent but are by no means a core book and the fact that it cannot be verified for its authenticity should put a doubt in your mind. Accept only direct work of maharaj as you cannot go wrong with it, unfortunatelty indirect may end up straying.

 

It is clear that you have not studied the core scriptures, as if you have you would not be stating such. Hence why i always think to myself those who have studied the scriptures would never deem baps to be true let alone follow it, truth is many have not studied the core scriptures and have been spoon fed certain sections to be known to all in parrot fashion. It is sad to see, but it is kaliyug. I urge all baps devotees to read the scriptures with an unbiased view and follow all commands as this is the means to please you lord.

[Guest]

Greatly put. I totally agree. The other thing i wanted to add was that a BAPS follower above quoted:

 

"Do you think that any devoid upasna will go long for a 100 years. Why you forget that dambh no dasko and satya ni satabdi".

 

Well truth is faiths such as Islam has lasted well over 100 years does that mean they are true in what they follow according to the Swaminarayan Sampraday?

 

You cannot use that to back up BAPS.

[Guest guest]

Manidr bata, masjid bati bat liya girjaghar ko ab mat bato insano ko.

 

When shriji maharaj left him home as a nilkanth varni he carried with him gutka of all the shastras. This gutkas arrived from what scriptures. All the scriptures of the swaminarayan sampraday are not beyond such scriptures. Please read the original scriptures and try to arrive that the scriptures of swaminaryan are originated from what.

 

Don't try to be agent of selling moksha. Based on my posts you are trying to judge the strength of BAPS is just your showing that how poor you are in interpreating the things and still you claim that your interpretation of scriptures are true. According to your philosophy all the gopies were not met the moksha even after the meeting lord krishna as they have not read and followed the scriptures of swaminarayan sampraday and convenienced you.

 

When you have judge something you need to understaning two things -

 

1. Letter of the script and

2. The intention behind the writing of such letter.

 

You have went deep into lateral mening of the scripture and not touched the intention part of it.

 

If I take the scriptures in lateral meaning I found that the entire sampraday is not fitting into the compliance of the orders of the lord swaminarayan. Everybody is trying to take the meaning which is most convenient to it. Whole world is aware about the disputes in the different parts of the swaminarayan followers and also within the sampraday particularly in vadtal gadi. The followers of vadtal gadi are not competent enough to explain and convenience the scriptures to their own followers and keep their action in line. Rather their disputes are burden to the society. There are good satsangis also but they also have no dare to clean the things within the sampraday.

 

The whole purpose of swaminarayan bhagwan's establishing the seperate sampraday is that during his vichran he has seen that there are many bad things within the followers of the other sampradays. Now, if the same things will happen within the swaminarayan sampraday also then how you say that shriji maharaj will be happy by that? Which scriptures you will go and explain to him to claim your views are right.

 

Earlier somebody has rightly posted that santo moksh nu dwar che. If it is that what you achiev by doing the ninda of pramukh swami maharaj.

 

Other guest has suggested that Islam is also surviving since long. Now, you only say that you belive in scriptures only and go by the lateral meaning of the same. Now, have you read the scriptures of Islam or just blindly making ninda of kuran. Why you forget that swaminarayan bhagwan has not given any agna for making ninda of anyother religion.

 

 

Jai swaminarayan.

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan.

 

So far as the Gadhda Madhya Nu 35th Vachnamrut is concerned I mention as under:

 

Shriji Maharaj clearly mentioned that-

 

1.Jyare Shri Krishna Ni Murti ma dhyan kare tyare atma dekhvo kathin nathi.

2.Kalyan of Jiv is not difficult if -

(a) Bhagwan na charitra Gava

(b) Bhagwan na charitra sambhalva

( c ) Nam Smran Karvo ne

(d ) Pota na dharma ma rehvo

 

This is only the point what I wanted to say you. If any woman or man is doing the above then they are also able to see the atma like shriji maharaj and their kalyan is here ensured by shriji maharaj. In fact shriji maharaj also mentioned that it is difficult to see the atma by any other method.

 

I don't know how many swaminarayan satsangi's are ready and rathar allowed by the dominant people to do the dhyan of shri krishna. In am witness of the incidences in which the attempt was made to show the krishna inferior then shriji mahraj by the so called satsangis of swaminaryan and that to in the presence of the big satsangis and santos. But no body has even uttared a signle word that what is going on is wrong. If this is not politics then what. Any way nothing will happen to image of lord krishna by saying anything of such type of people.

 

Further, the man hoi changa to kathrot ma ganga is not proper is mentioned with reference to dealings between man and woman. If you want to see the atma it is right that you don't listen the akha and kabir because there is possibilities that you take the wrong meaning of the thing. The pad of Kabir and Akha are not for atma darshan it is for those people who don't know the way to atma darshan and went deep into the text of scriptures without reading the scriptures as a whole. You cannot use the scriptures on peace meal basis. That is why shriji maharaj has also prepared gutka of all shastras before van vichran.

 

Furhter, shriji maharaj clearly states in the said vachnamrut that make varta of the Shrimad Bhagwat and other granths mentioned. Then why are you not quote the things from the shrimad bhagwat and other granths recommended by the maharaj in the said vachnamrut.

 

I am not opposing your being with vadtal gadi or any other sanstha of swaminarayan but I wonder that being a satsangi how you have kept only one intention i.e. To oppose BAPS and do the ninda of saint like pramukh swami. No what ever niyam you will follow but in this way shriji maharaj will be never happy with you.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.