Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

You’re not even worth replying to as you’re a hypocrite. You state that authentic scriptures should be sought, but you do not read yourself! This can be clearly seen form your reply. I will reply for other people. You are correct of the Sadhus rules also do not forget there are other 5 Vartmans for Sadhus as well such as nishkaam, Nisneh etc.

 

Firstly, in which scripture does Swaminarayan Bhagwan state that Akshar Brahm Sadhus are mool Akshar? You can’t go round stating such if it’s not recorded in any of the main authentic scriptures. You’re stating stuff which your gurus have decided. But this cannot be allowed in the authentic orthodox Swaminarayan sampraday. Your Upasna has failed you to become a true bhakt of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. As your understanding simply shows that you do not read the authentic scriptures in the life you lead as a so called Bhakt. I would also like to point out that it’s obvious that both the Gadi Acharyas will not accept such upasna as it was made after Bhagwan Swaminarayan departed to Akshardham. The Acharyas follow what was originally started off by Bhagwan Swaminarayan. Also what is in the authentic scriptures from Bhagwans time and not which was created afterwards by Sadhus. You should not take avgun of Acharyas in this way. Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami also states this in His Vato. Maybe you should read them carefully as well.

 

Also you should learn the history carefully too. If you do some research of your own you will learn that Purshottamprasadji Maharaj had left the Gadi to Vasudevprasadji Maharaj in his will, this will was in the hands of the governor of Ahmadabad. This will can also be seen in the Bhuj Swaminarayan Mandir. As it was Sadguru Mahant Swami Aksharjivandasji who carried this task to sit Vasudevprasadji Pande on the throne. This was because Swami knew from his times with Purshottamprasadji Maharaj that this was also wanted by the acharya. Aksharjivandasji Swami was a great scholar and also a Samadhinisht sant. You should learn about his high spiritual status. So he could not have been wrong and even if he was a will cannot be wrong. So it wasn’t Kunjvihariprasad to be on the Gadi. But Kunjvihariprasad did not listen to Aksharjivandasji Swami and did his own thing in Vadhvan which today isn’t getting very far. Then BAPS used him as an Acharya to consecrate their murtis. But not anymore. BAPS do their own Murtipratishta these days as well.

 

Also where does Bhagwan Swaminarayan state that only if a Acharya passes away to Akshardham, another one can be chosen?? Maybe you should read the Harililamrut, Satsangi Jivan and Desh Vibhaag No Lekh etc. Swaminarayan Bhagwan has clearly stated that when a new Acharya is to be consecrated to the Gadi then he shall be of a good character and of the Dharmkul lineage. So what you state is wrong. You need to read the Adhyay of Satsangi Jivan where Bhagwan delivers the sermon of the Acharyas rules in Vadtal once after they were given the Gadi.

 

Sarva avtaari Bhagwan Swaminarayan Ni Jay

Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay

Lakshmi Narayan dev ni Jay

Gopinathji Maharaj ni Jay

 

 

The current acharya of Ahmedabd was involved in a drunk driving incident, so this fellow is your guru now?

[Guest guest]

 

The current acharya of Ahmedabd was involved in a drunk driving incident, so this fellow is your guru now?

 

You stoop so low. Because you have taken many Avguns. Vinashlake Viprit buddhi.

 

What proof do you have of such incident? Even still let me give you an example of a Agnaani person who then realised Bhagwan and became Shiromani Bhaktraj-

 

Joban Pagi was a mass murderer, meat eater, alchohol consumer, thief etc. Yet he taught Satsang to the whole of Charotar Desh!!! People regarded him as a guru. HE took many to Akshardham with Him. So what of this?

 

You will plainly take Avguns no matter what scripture your shown. As you see avguns in all, avguns come and reside in you. You should learn from Bhagwaan Dattatrey. Even if a satpurush tells you otherwise you will not realise. You need to read Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami Ni vato in much more detail. Swami states atleast 4 times that you should not take avgun of Sant, Acharya, Bhagwan and Sat Shastra.

 

Let me show you once again:

 

In vaat 112 of Prakran 5 of Gunatitanand swami’s vaato ;

 

Ane acharya Adhik chaarno avgun ave eh motu paap che.

Bija toh anek swabhav hoye,

paan eh paapnu mool che.

Te paap ne vishe punya ni buddhi thaye,

ne sadhu ne vishe asadhuni budhi thaye,Pachi droha thaye.

paachi teno jeev naash thaye.

Evu eh che,mate varamvaar kevanu tatparya su che?

Toh eke vaat haiya mah raakhine koi divas eh marghe charvu ni.

Ne eni(acharya, Sant, Murti, Shastra ) toh karvi nikarva haath jorva.

Pan avgun toh nahij levo, eh amaaro siddhant hato teh kahyo.

Sadhu ni,Mandir ni,acharya ni ne satsangi ni seva karvi toh vruddhi pamaay.

Ne droh thaiye toh jeev no nash thaiye.

 

So why talk ill of Sanatan Dharmdhurandhar Kaushalendra Prasadji Maharaj?? He is the Acharya of Ahmdavad Narnarayan Dev Desh. Either do seva, if not then fold your hands and bow to him or respect him. Otherwise just leave taking avguns, then you will have a chance to advance in realising God at least. Otherwise you soul will fall from the path of God realisation just like Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami States at the end of His vaat.

 

 

Sarva Avtaari Bhagwaan Swaminarayan Ni Jay

Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay

Laksminarayan Dev Ni Jay

Gopinathji Maharaj Ni Jay

[Guest guest]

Jay Swaminarayan,

 

I apologize for taking of avgun, what I am trying to say is your guru should be perfect or near perfect, brahmarup if not brahmaswaroop. He should be the door to Akshardham if not Akshardham incarnate himself.

 

Shri Swaminarayan Bhagawan ni Jay!

Pramukh Swami Maharaj ni Jay!

BAPS Shatapdi Mahotsav ni Jay!

[Guest guest]

 

Jay Swaminarayan,

 

I apologize for taking of avgun, what I am trying to say is your guru should be perfect or near perfect, brahmarup if not brahmaswaroop. He should be the door to Akshardham if not Akshardham incarnate himself.

 

Shri Swaminarayan Bhagawan ni Jay!

Pramukh Swami Maharaj ni Jay!

BAPS Shatapdi Mahotsav ni Jay!

 

Our Acharyas are our Dharm Guru's. The heads of the Swaminarayan Sampraday! My spiritual guru is a saint who lives in Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Bhuj mandir is the one built by Lord Swaminarayan Himself. He is a Vachansidh Brahmnishth saint. Through him and the regular darshan and Samagam of Saints, Acharyas and Haribhaktos i am guided in learning the Sat Shastras. Through these along with keeping the Murti Of Shriji Maharaj in my heart im a sadhak yet. Just like the the rest of the followers of this sect, seeking Dradh Atmanishtha and Mahatmya Sahit Bhakti to please Bhagwan.

 

Also our Acharya Shri Kaushalendra Prasadji Maharaj is divine and follows dharm is not Nastik, Kuda Panthi, Shusk Vedantin nor Kusangi. He is divine just like Nishkulanand Swami states Acharyas are. The day He falls from His path of being Acharya then he becomes a Yogbrashth, He has not yet moved of his path of the Acharyas dharm which the scriptures have stated for the acharyas. Also the Sikshapatri states dharms for Acharyas. He has not yet failed such dharms. So please dont take such Avgun, i wouldnt wish for you or anyone to becoming Dukhi because of such bad remarks.

 

If you read Purshottam Prakash it states in there that the Acharyas are the fourth door to Akshardham! Just like Shriji Maharaj had decided before he came on the earth. He had decided these four doors In Akshardham according to Nishkulanand Kavya and Satsangi Jivan. The mee darshan of such satpurush's kills all sin, grants inner peace and strength for Bhakti. Also BAPS saints do not get diksha in accordance with the original orthodox Swaminarayan Sampraday scriptures.

 

By the way you still state saints being "Akshardham Incarnate". There is no such "divine lineage" called the "Gunatit Parampara". Its not mentioned in no shastra nor did Shriji Maharaj construct such parampara. It only started from 1907 with BAPS. We believe that Sadguru Gopalanand Swami was Akshardham incarnate, This is clearly stated on teh walls of the Akshar Oradi in Kariyani. However, Still we do not place a murti of him in the throne nor follow a Upasna such as the akshar purshottam upasna. We keep the murtis Maharaj has given us such as Gopinathji Maharaj, Nar Narayan Dev and Laksminarayan Dev etc. Simply because such an upasna (Akshar Purshottam) is not stated in the scriptures. Nor did Shriji Maharaj tell anyone of such a upasna nor did His nand santo. Sadguru Mool Akshar Gopalanand Swami himself did not allow bhakts to perform artis or any of the SorsUpchaar like they did to Shriji Maharaj. Nor Did Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami.

 

 

Sarvavtaari Bhagwaan Swaminarayan ni Jay

Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay

Laksmi Narayan Dev Ni Jay

[Guest guest]

I would also like to clear first that I was follower of BAPS since child hood attending Neasden Mandir, and now (at the age of 25th year) I have joined Original Sampraday by asking some questions to 1st line saints of BAPS. Please make a note that these all questions were unanswered by leading saints of BAPS. I have tried to ask these questiones to leading followers of BAPS, but as and when I asked questions they got provoked and could not answer.

 

I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say?

 

2. If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj.

 

3. So did you try to read these books?

 

4. Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect.

 

5. So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS.

 

6. In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples?

 

7. In shikshapatri , shree Hari has written that All sadhues MUST take Diksha from Acharya. So the other sadhus including your all Gurues (except Shashtriji Maharaj who was made "VIMUKH" from Vadtal temple) are not at all swaminarayan saits.

 

8. I think all satsangies Must read Desh Vibhag lekh, which is written by Shree Hari in the presence of all leading satsangies, and sadhus at that time. In this bhagwan has told that "Je koi mara sthapela dharma thi aalag aashram sthapshe te Guru Drohi chhe, vachan drohi chhe, ane te Jarur aa lok ne vishe ane parlok ne vishe mota kashta ne pamshe".

 

5. Did you read Bhaktachintamani? In which many a time Lord has said that all must follow Acharya's Agya.

 

6. Do you know that when any new sait is taking diksha in BAPS, then he is driven to Nar Narayan dev temple first.

 

7. Do you know that when ever Pramukh swami maharaj is coming to Gadhada, he visits Gopinathji Maharaj Temple to worship without fail. So please, if you want to go Akhardham then you all should read Shikshapatri, Vachanamrit (read whole, not some paragraphs which is instructed by BAPS temple), Bhaktachintamani, Satsangi Jivan (some days before in Dadar BAPS satsang sabha, mahant swami of dadar has also told to read satsangi Jivan) and Understand that without any bias. You will realise that through original sampraday only, one can get Akhardham.

 

8. At last but not list , the last shlok of shikshapatri -"Je aa shikhapatri pramane vartshe tene Dharma, Arth, Kam, ane Moksha (Akhardham) malshe, and je nahi varte te to AMARA DHARMA THI BAHER CHHE tem janvu."

 

Now its upto you whether you want to follow word of Lord Swaminarayan, or words of Gurus (who are miss leading to all)

[Guest guest]

hello and jai swaminaryan. just to make a comment from a female point of view. though i may never talk to a sadhu, though i may never talk to pramukh swami, i have undestood the glory of PurnaPurushottam avtar naa avtaari Shree Sahajanadji Maharaj - Bhagwan Swaminarayan. i have never felt a lack of someone not giving me gnaan. when i have no one to explain it to me, Maharaj has spoken through my guru to give me answers. Maharaj has said not to worry about the female followers He Himself will make us brahmroop. im not worried and neither are the other thousands of female followers. so i dont see why scores of men are worried about my moksha?

try to answer as much as i can. im not a gnaani because all my swabhavs are still intact, i will only be one when they are all gone... i may not shoot out quotations from refrences, but as long as i will win over my swabhavs Maharaj will be pleased because in reality His journey from Akshardham was not made so that we may argue like this and slander people good or bad. it was to help us realize His true mahima -to become atamarop and worhsip only Him. so please do forgive me that i may not be able to give you so many references. this is just a humble attempt so that you may know and undestand (not necessarly accept) what most of at BAPS see and feel.

yes i do follow what Pramukh Swami says. and yes i do read what the acharyas had written and inspired. Hari lilamrut as well as hari lila kalpataru (there are many more and again im not a gnaani i havent gotten to them yet but will someday).

Pramukh Swami visits these mandirs in Gadhada because Maharaj had built these mandirs and Maharaj had these murtis installed. they are prasadi naa. its the mahima that yes Maharaj was here. He also encourages us go as well (but that does not make him any less who he is). we all go. i have gone to do darshan as prasadi nu mandir of Maharaj.

 

Also in some of the scriptures you mentioned, Maharaj has also made references to akshar to eshtablish that there is akshar. Maharaj has said in Vach. Gadh. 1/21 that there are two forms of akshar. you may believe akshar to be anybody you choose..granted (this is printed in both vach. as well). but there is an akshar. but He also does mention that Gunatitanand Swami indeed is akshar in other references. Gopalanand Swami was a great saint and his murtis are also installed in BAPS mandirs as well and they should be. why not sing the praises of the akshar muktas that Maharaj brought with Him when He came from dham (Vach. Gadh 1/71 - printed in both copies) but akshar will remain akshar. Gopalananad Swami had also instructed all who came to him to go for the samagam of Gunatitanand Swami uttering these same words that Gunatitanand Swami is akshar. Also, Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj and Acharya Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj went to Gunatitanand Swami for samagam and believeing that he was a brahmanized saint - akshar. will you say that they were wrong as well? they were great acharyas and they understood this as well. or is this something which was brought out by imagination?

 

also i would just like to point out that Pramukh Swami Maharaj would never tolerate any changes made to the actual texts written by Maharaj or the paramhansas. He respects the Acharyas as well as the santos regardless of the disputes(true or untrue i am not anyone to judge). Therefore i firmly believe that Pramukh Swami would never ever allow for changes made to text just to suit the needs of the sanstha and acutally nothing is printed without his consent. and what need does he have? actually what need did anyone have at BAPS to change anything that was authentic. there was/is no need. Pramukh Swami till this day does not make any changes.

I also have to say that Pramukh Swami is not worshiped as god. he himself is so humble, if we even said such words he would not accept any of us. he does not ask any of us to treat him as a god. But Maharaj has said that if a sant holds those 'guns' then one should believe that one is doing the darshan of god - Sarangpur ten. Not that he is god, but that god is giving us darshan through such a pavitra sant. this is printed in both vachnamruts. this is not something that BAPS printed because they felt like it. he is a vachan sidha purush. he is nirmaani, niskaami, nirlobi, niswadi, nisnehi - those are his "guns" and many more. when you meet someone like this it's hard not to put him on a pedestal and worship him...

you also made a comment about BAPS saints not being swaminaryan saints, well my brother- who was my brother- is a sant and he is swaminaryan saint because he follows the celibate niyams laid down by Maharaj Himself so i think that does make him a full flegded Bhagawan Swaminarayan following saint. it is important to look at all the aspects of being a sadhu not just who gave diksha. just in mere example, if he was given diksha by Pujya Acharya himself, yet he walked around acting like a compelete ninny not adhering to the rules does this make him a swaminarayan sant? swaminarayn paramhansas were known for their niyam dharams, for their bhakti to their ishtadev. these are traits that all of the sadhus in BAPS have (they do not sing their own praises nor do they disobey the rules of Maharaj - Pramukh Swami himself at such old age follows these niyams).

 

you also mentioned about giving daan to mandirs. as a matter of fact when ever we have gone to prasadi naa mandirs we have donated,as per Pramukh Swami. i have donated to kaalupur mandir, gadhada mandir, chapiya mandir, bhuj mandir. and many others. so yes we do give when we can and i think that is the case with many haribhaktas regardless of the sect they may follow. but why do we give? two reasons, our guru has told us to and it's a prasadi nu mandir, Maharaj nu mandir.

 

Maharaj came here for a reason, and that was to establish dharma. He has said wherever there is dharma and wherever there is bhakti He will stay. Pramukh Swami is not singing his own praises, he is not building mandirs so that people say that he is god. Rather he does so, so that more and more people understand the true glory of Bhagwan Swaminarayan, not his own mahima. Recenetly he had an gigantic monument built to dedicate the work of Maharaj and this wasnt the first one. he did not do this so that people will walk away thinking of him, rather so that they may improve, they may see the real reason behind Maharaj coming here on earth for us. if you were to look at the exhibit its not about his life, rather the lifestyle that Maharaj preached. isnt this what Maharaj wanted? to continue what he had brought on this earth? i dont believe that it is our goal or any other swaminaryan samprady's goal to do anything but this. if Shastiji Maharaj had been singing his own praises and not the praises of Maharaj himself i dont believe he would have gotten very far.

there will always be differeces in interpretation of scriptures...but you have quoted Mahant Swami that we should read the satsangi jivan and other scriptures WIHTOUT bias. very honestly i know so many in BAPS who do. do you? that is not a question in offense rather in introspection. i know that i do. i will say this for sure when you do read them without being bias you will surely feel at bliss. and if you have read them without bias why all of this fire in your heart? again introspection. we could all argue till we are blue in the face but it will just take us further away from Maharaj. i will leave it in the hands of Maharaj, as should everyone else, who is wrong and who is right.

gurus never mislead ...tulsidas was not crazy when he said...guru govind dono khade kisko laagu paai, balihaari guru dev ki jino govind diyo bataai. a guru is always needed, Maharaj uses the word satpurush over and over again why? to remind us that yes we do need a guru so that we do not fall on the wrong path. a guru to show us where to go and how to get there. and not just any satpurush, but one with "guns" infinte. gurus are required. inorder to understand Akshardham, one must find it first. and to find it, one must find someone who comes from there. but it is for you do decide where to look. just as you follow the words of Pujya Sant from Bhuj mandir, he is your guru no? he teaches you what is right and what is wrong no? what to follow or not to? do you think that he may be misleading you? againg that is a question not in offense but in introspection.

again i would like to say that im not a gnaani, so this may not answer all of your questions...i have made a humble attempt and anyway who am i to provide these answers? if you want answers you can always ask Pramukh Swami himself, since you did not feel satisfied by many elder saints.

he writes thousands of letters each day, he will be more then happy to give you answers as well. we may all be biased, but he will give you staright fwd answers no bias that is a promise.

i will pray to Maharaj and Swami that you do find your answers and throught answers you understand even further the greatness and glory of Bhagwan Swaminaryan and His true mission. good luck.

thank you for the opportunity to offer this seva to my guru.

jai swaminarayan

atamram

 

ps- i would just like to add that anyone reading this, please refrain from being rude and offensive to any hindu sect in general, and guru, acharya or sadhu. if we cannot argue without having control over the words that we may spit out then we are not worthy of the Swaminarayan name. Maharaj Himself did not utter words of offense of any samprady. though He showed His disapproval, He never offended.. if we can not speak hospitbaly with each other regarding this matter then it is better to remain silent and humble. thank you again.

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan,

Thank you for your response... i also responded similarily on Page 6. I said I wouldnt come back on this blog again since the person i was talking to just didnt understand the point I was trying to make. So when I read yours, I felt relieved that there was someone out there who understands my point of view also...if you come back; please read my comments, starts off by "this is the first time ...".

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

 

About Gunatitanand Swami being Akshar, do you remember when Maharaj was playing raas with his paramahamsas during fuldol, he specifically sang a verse from a bhajan of Kabir extolling a sadguru, after the recital he asked his santos who was that sadguru. They replied: Its you Maharaj, Maharaj said no he was Purshottom Narayan and that sadguru-his dham is Gunatitanand Swami. This knowledge of Sahajanand as Parameshwar and Gunatitanand as Mul Akshar was not invented by Shastriji Maharaj. THere was alot of talk those days of this. Many santos and haribhaktas knew of this like Jaga Swami, Krishnaji Ada, Bhagatji Maharaj. etc. Now think about what you said of Maharaj wanting his akshar being worshipped besides him: the original mandirs had murtis in the central shikar of the avatars: always bhakt-bhagwan. Like Nar-Narayan, Radha-Raman, Lakshmi-Narayan. Now Maharaj is avatari source of avatars so shouldn't his choiciest devotee be worshipped along side him?

 

 

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

Firstly this so called reference could easily be brushed aside due to it being a mere prasang. There is no core evidence backed with scriptural reference. However if you still believe this reference is still true then perhaps a read of Gadhada Madhya 35 will change your view. In the prasang mentioned above it states that Maharaj sang a kirtan of Kabir, yet in the Vachanamrut reference i have provided states that we are not to listen to kirtans of Kabir and Akha. Why would Shreeji Maharaj sing one of Kabirs kirtans and then orders his devotees not to listen to them? Either Maharaj is himself a hypocrite or the devotees that you claim heard this have in fact made this story up, i personally think the latter explanation is the truth.

 

If you can refer to the authentic core scriptures(Vachanamrut, Shikshapatri, Satsangi Jeevan etc) to back your theory of Akshar Purushottam philosophy then it would be much appreciated. I can guarantee you will not find any references, and if you do find anything please post it as i will be more than happy to discredit it.

[Guest guest]

jai swaminarayan,

 

thank you for your comment. i can understand how you feel when there is support.

 

i dont understand what all this is about at times. i understand prapti no maihma but i agree with you, without vivek ,no matter what is being discussed, it's like drawing a line in water. in debate there has to be some sort of vivek and obviously there is none here.

 

what happend to thinking about atma realization? what happened to taking care of one's own level in upasana before measuring others? wait is there ANYONE who can measure another jiv's depth? it seems like other people are more worried about my moksha and kalyan then their own.

 

again i have to agree with you that i shall not return to this page either. i said what i needed to say and i have done my seva for my guru. if i had left silently then it would have been worse. if it is the wish of Maharaj then they will understand and if not then they wont. it's not for anyone of us to decide anything because despite the so called "gnaan" we display on these pages, there is no gnaan till all those swabhavs and dhosh are gone. what is being spoken on these pages is not gnaan, just a tsunami of swabhavs. what's the point of knowing all of this if we are going to use it to hurt others and speak ill of other dharma gurus? Maharaj did not ask the paramhansas to tolerate beatings and do brutal upavas so that over two hundered years later, we would insult them with such arguments. as a matter fact, it just makes us fall into this cycle again and out of reach from Maharaj.

 

once again thank you for your comment. my prayers for great success in the sprititual world

jai swaminarayn

atmaram

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan,

I don't know if you read the comment made by 'Haribhagat' after your original comment but this is exactly what i meant when others are too caught up in 'looking at others'.

 

I read something interesting that one negative thought kills 600,000 cells and one positive thought can make those same cells 'jivant'. Hmmm, no wonder Maharaj said in Pratham 16 that one should never take abhav of bhakt, sant or God Himself...

 

I think 'Haribhagat' should look up the definition of its name.

Anyway who am I to judge others?

 

I just came back to tell you that I also wish you great spiritual success too and that I also believe in our Upasana (Aksharpurushottam). And this revelation was spoken by Maharaj when He was just 4 years old. You can probably recall this prasang when Maharaj in a sense froze; the day was Sharad Purnima 1785 and said 'maru rehvanu dham aajeh dharti par pragat thai gayu'.. this revelation was of course the birth of Gunatitanand Swami.

 

Anyway, like you, I cannot make references as I tend to focus on the substance and the teachings of my guru.

 

This will be my last appearance... haha...

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan.

 

Has the Upasna and the agna of the preaching and teachings of saints and Acharyas of the original sampraday ever changed since Shriji Maharaj? Have Artis's, Shloks or even Prathnas been changed since? Especially the Arti. Even the online Shikshapatri clearly shows the original. You state that nothings changed? As you have only seen one aspect and one side of a so called sect you are well biased in terms of your understanding and belief.

 

You also state a lot of stuff but like you state "I cannot make references as I tend to focus on the substance and the teachings of my guru". You can’t go around and do this when such information is not within the scriptures. Where does its state that Lord Swaminarayan state that His dhaam has been born? Is it even in the Ghanshyam Charitramrut? Where is it? Why has BAPS changed the Arti?

 

Shriji Maharaj states His Akshar has two forms Sagun and Nirgun. He doesn’t state that Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar in the Vachnamrut. Singing the praises of Mukts and worshipping them alongside God is two different things.

 

Its not good to slander. But realising the true principles and Siddhants of Shriji Maharaj is a MUST. Also Acharyas doing samagam of saints does not mean it’s because they are AKSHAR. Acharyas even to this day do samagam of saint’s everyday. Also did Acharya Shri Ayodhyaprasadji and Acharya Shri Raghuvirji not do samagam of Gopalanand Swami either? They believed Sadguru Muktanand Swami as a brahmanised saint as well. This in turn does not mean that they believed him to be Mool Akshar does it?

 

By the way many of the BAPS followers are taught that Pramukh Swami is walking talking Shriji Maharaj. Or either that he is Mul Akshar. As there is a Gunatit Parampara. Whether Pramukh Swami follows rules or not is not the question. The initial problem arises is that BAOS saints have disregarded the Satsangi Jivan. Where it clearly states how a saint is a saint and how a SWAMINARAYAN SAINT should remain in the holy fellowship under the refuge of a Dharmvanshi Acharya. So are you telling me BAOS follows these Niyams and these Agnas? So, what’s the use of Nisneh, Nirmaan etc if Bhagwan Swaminarayan Niyams are initially broken? It’s a very delicate matter which the devotees of BAOS cannot answer as this one is especially for the saints.

 

BAPS forsake all these Mandirs SHRIJI MAHARAJ Himself built? Many of BAPS followers also do heavy KHANDAN of the AVTAARS. Yet no other BAPS followers say no to it nor tell them that it’s wrong to do such. Read Gadhada Madhya 64. All Avatars are of Shriji Maharaj and all the dhaams are His. He as Himself lives in Brahmpur. He is the master of innumerable universes and the cause of all Avtaars. Thus making Him Sarva Avtaari. He comes as an Avtaar to fulfil a mission.

 

LOl. You’re mistaken; I have no fire in my heart. I have Khumaari of Bhagwan, His Acharyas and his saints. Who states that we do not need Satpurush? You think we follow no Satpurush? Only a Satpurush can take you to the doors of Akshardham. I have realised that this Satpurush Shriji Maharaj talks of is not Pramukh Swami. You state Gurus never mislead?? You need to read Yamdand. My guru does not mislead me as he himself follows as it is from the scriptures. He has not once in his life gone against the words of Shriji Maharaj. Nor the authentic scriptures. He has never ignored his dharm in any way. Even in terms of Upasna and agya.

 

Maharaj Sau ne Sukhiya KAre. EMne Emnu Alokik Sukh Api Ne. Ane Sau Ne Bal deh etle Satsang no hriday ma Vikaas Thaay.

 

Sahajanand Swami Maharaj Ni Jay.

[Guest guest]

 

I don't know if you read the comment made by 'Haribhagat' after your original comment but this is exactly what i meant when others are too caught up in 'looking at others'.

 

Ab1, it seems you are somewhat offended by my post. Why is this? Is it because i have provided a scriptural reference which discredits the theory put forward? Also im not 'too caught up in looking at others', as i have merely pointed out a flaw in the thoery which was presented. Perhaps you cannot handle the fact that there is a flaw in the theory and have turned it around onto me stating that i am at fault. I think you need to read with a clear head when debating, at the moment you seem as if you disregard what is written (the actual post) and interpret it in your own way.

 

 

I read something interesting that one negative thought kills 600,000 cells and one positive thought can make those same cells 'jivant'. Hmmm, no wonder Maharaj said in Pratham 16 that one should never take abhav of bhakt, sant or God Himself...

 

I fail to see where you have got this thought that i am being negative? I certainly cannot see such negativity that you speak of in my post, unless you regard proving a point negativity? The Vachanamrut quote does not apply to me as i have not taken abhav of any of those you have mentioned including acharyas (which you conveniantly left out)

 

 

I think 'Haribhagat' should look up the definition of its name.

Anyway who am I to judge others?

 

Haribhagat - a devotee a Hari. Why have i said anything that makes you think that i am not a Haribhagat? What you say is true, who are you to judge others when it is clear that you cannot accept facts within the scriptures and the commands of your own Ishtadev.

 

 

I just came back to tell you that I also wish you great spiritual success too and that I also believe in our Upasana (Aksharpurushottam). And this revelation was spoken by Maharaj when He was just 4 years old. You can probably recall this prasang when Maharaj in a sense froze; the day was Sharad Purnima 1785 and said 'maru rehvanu dham aajeh dharti par pragat thai gayu'.. this revelation was of course the birth of Gunatitanand Swami.

 

Funny that the Aksharpurushottam Upaasna is not mentioned in any Swaminaraayn scripture yet you still follow it, are you sure Swaminarayan Bhagwan is your Ishtadev? Also Aksharpurushottam Upaasna suggests Jugal Upaasna which is prohibited within Sanatan Dharma. Upaasna is of one tattva as mentioned in Gadhada Antya Prakran 38. Funny you mention these prasangs yet none of the Nand santos noted them down in any scripture also how only BAPS devotees know of these prasangs. Surely important issues like Upaasna should be clearly referred in the main/core scriptures (ie Shikshapatri, Vachanamrut, Satsangi Jeevan etc) as it is the means to moksha.

 

 

Anyway, like you, I cannot make references as I tend to focus on the substance and the teachings of my guru.

 

What a strange statement, you would rather place more importance on your Gurus(who believes in Swaminarayan Bhagwan) teachings as opposed to the words of Swaminaraayn bhagwan and his nand santos. Are you sure you have fully understood the greatness of Swaminarayan bhagwan, it seems not as you would choose the words of your guru over Swaminarayan bhagwans words.

 

 

This will be my last appearance... haha...

 

Perhaps it is a good thing that this is your last appearance, you clearly arent open minded and cannot accept facts within the Swaminarayan sampradaya. Your whole belief is based on your so called Gurus as opposed to Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna. Good luck to you in finding moksha, because at the moment as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions you are not on track.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

...

 

 

 

Perhaps it is a good thing that this is your last appearance, you clearly arent open minded and cannot accept facts within the Swaminarayan sampradaya. Your whole belief is based on your so called Gurus as opposed to Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna. Good luck to you in finding moksha, because at the moment as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions you are not on track.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

"Perhaps it is a good thing that this is your last appearance, you clearly arent open minded and cannot accept facts within the Swaminarayan sampradaya. Your whole belief is based on your so called Gurus as opposed to Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna. Good luck to you in finding moksha, because at the moment as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions you are not on track."

 

 

Haribhagat,

You are in NO position to judge whether or not a devotee is on "track"!

You have NO right to judge! Why don't you leave that to Maharaj!

It is one of the most fundamental teachings of Swaminarayan satsung!!! and of Life in general !!! and without you fully knowing or experiencing or hearing what our Guru's say you have no right to say, "Your whole belief is based on your so called Gurus as opposed to Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna".

 

Stop judging and let people be happy with their beliefs!

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

Haribhagat,

You are in NO position to judge whether or not a devotee is on "track"!

You have NO right to judge! Why don't you leave that to Maharaj!

It is one of the most fundamental teachings of Swaminarayan satsung!!! and of Life in general !!! and without you fully knowing or experiencing or hearing what our Guru's say you have no right to say, "Your whole belief is based on your so called Gurus as opposed to Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna".

 

Stop judging and let people be happy with their beliefs!

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

I do not feel it is judging, i would call it pointing out. Especially as this can be seen from Shreeji Maharajs words in the Shikshapatri,Vachanamrut, Satsangi Jeevan etc. I am merely re-iterating to what Shreeji Maharaj has already stated ie if you dont act according to the Aagna and Upaasna as prescribed by himself then you are on the wrong path, also if you do not stay under the branch/shelter of dharmakul(Spiritual Gurus of the Uddhav Sampradaya - set up by Shreeji Maharaj himself) then you are not going to recieve moksha as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions.

 

Finally neither you or myself should listen to those who you call gurus, let me explain myself further. Nirvikalp Uttam ati (Prathna written by Premanand swami and sang everyday) states Vimukh jivake vadanase katha sunee nahi jat (Do not listen to speeches or Katha by those who have turned their backs on God). Now you will argue that your gurus have not turned their backs on Swaminarayan bhagwan, but the fact that Yagnapurush left the Sampradaya set up by Swaminarayan Bhagwan himself is evidence enough that he has turned his back on Swaminarayan Bhagwan. In a way Yagnapurush by leaving felt that Swaminarayan Bhagwans sampradaya had flaws and hence he set up another following(cult).

 

Now baps devotees have been taught that Yagnapurush was threatened and saints tried to poison him etc, which is a load of nonsense fed to the devotees of Baps. They also say that Gunatitanand Swami was told off by saints and devotees, unfortunately there is no evidence to back this up. Let us assume Yagnapurush was threatened etc he could have left and carried on with his bhajan bhakti as prescribed by Swaminaraayn bhagwan as did Param Chaitanayanand swami(Maan ni murti).

 

Who gave Yagnapurush the authority to set up a new sampradaya? did Shreeji Maharaj instruct him(in a dream)? If so, then why set up Uddhav Sampradaya(known and referred to as Swaminarayan Sampradaya). Also Acharyas are disregarded, Upaasna reet changed(heavily flawed), Vyakti Poojan, Philosophy of Vishistadvait is disregarded and finally not forgetting the most important thing Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna is disregarded in the Shikshapatri, Vachanamrut, Satsangi Jeevan etc.

 

Now you tell me by following BAPS are you still on the right path as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions? You might be on the right path according to your Gurus but not by Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Perhaps Yagnapurush(shastriji), Yogiji, pramukh swami have their own dham in which you will be able to reside once you leave this world, but i can assure you that by following aksharpurushottam there is no space for you in Shreeji Maharajs Akshardham! Many Baps devotees find it hard to answer such questions as their belief system does not allow these questions to be posed and generally have prasangs to back up many practices. What you must understand is prasangs cannot be the basis of any belief, final authority goes to the authentic scriptures and nothing else.

 

NB. The instructions for moksha on this post only apply to those who follow Swaminarayan Bhagwan as their Ishtadev.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

I do not feel it is judging, i would call it pointing out. Especially as this can be seen from Shreeji Maharajs words in the Shikshapatri,Vachanamrut, Satsangi Jeevan etc. I am merely re-iterating to what Shreeji Maharaj has already stated ie if you dont act according to the Aagna and Upaasna as prescribed by himself then you are on the wrong path, also if you do not stay under the branch/shelter of dharmakul(Spiritual Gurus of the Uddhav Sampradaya - set up by Shreeji Maharaj himself) then you are not going to recieve moksha as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions.

 

Finally neither you or myself should listen to those who you call gurus, let me explain myself further. Nirvikalp Uttam ati (Prathna written by Premanand swami and sang everyday) states Vimukh jivake vadanase katha sunee nahi jat (Do not listen to speeches or Katha by those who have turned their backs on God). Now you will argue that your gurus have not turned their backs on Swaminarayan bhagwan, but the fact that Yagnapurush left the Sampradaya set up by Swaminarayan Bhagwan himself is evidence enough that he has turned his back on Swaminarayan Bhagwan. In a way Yagnapurush by leaving felt that Swaminarayan Bhagwans sampradaya had flaws and hence he set up another following(cult).

 

Now baps devotees have been taught that Yagnapurush was threatened and saints tried to poison him etc, which is a load of nonsense fed to the devotees of Baps. They also say that Gunatitanand Swami was told off by saints and devotees, unfortunately there is no evidence to back this up. Let us assume Yagnapurush was threatened etc he could have left and carried on with his bhajan bhakti as prescribed by Swaminaraayn bhagwan as did Param Chaitanayanand swami(Maan ni murti).

 

Who gave Yagnapurush the authority to set up a new sampradaya? did Shreeji Maharaj instruct him(in a dream)? If so, then why set up Uddhav Sampradaya(known and referred to as Swaminarayan Sampradaya). Also Acharyas are disregarded, Upaasna reet changed(heavily flawed), Vyakti Poojan, Philosophy of Vishistadvait is disregarded and finally not forgetting the most important thing Swaminarayan Bhagwans Aagna is disregarded in the Shikshapatri, Vachanamrut, Satsangi Jeevan etc.

 

Now you tell me by following BAPS are you still on the right path as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions? You might be on the right path according to your Gurus but not by Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Perhaps Yagnapurush(shastriji), Yogiji, pramukh swami have their own dham in which you will be able to reside once you leave this world, but i can assure you that by following aksharpurushottam there is no space for you in Shreeji Maharajs Akshardham! Many Baps devotees find it hard to answer such questions as their belief system does not allow these questions to be posed and generally have prasangs to back up many practices. What you must understand is prasangs cannot be the basis of any belief, final authority goes to the authentic scriptures and nothing else.

 

NB. The instructions for moksha on this post only apply to those who follow Swaminarayan Bhagwan as their Ishtadev.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

 

**********************************************************

All I can say after reading all this is that no one needs to justify their beliefs to anyone else. If you are attaining happiness by your means then more power to you. No matter what branch you follow; the reason there are followers under any branch is because one has felt his/her happiness there. Like someone has said earlier; this IS HOW WARS START. Also it seems everyone is trying to 'justify' what they believe is the truth, the only reason anyone would do that is to solidify their own belief in it. Like Ab1, female devotee and another guests have said; worry about your own moksha/liberation/salvation and leaving the pointing out/judging to GOD.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

**********************************************************

All I can say after reading all this is that no one needs to justify their beliefs to anyone else. If you are attaining happiness by your means then more power to you. No matter what branch you follow; the reason there are followers under any branch is because one has felt his/her happiness there. Like someone has said earlier; this IS HOW WARS START. Also it seems everyone is trying to 'justify' what they believe is the truth, the only reason anyone would do that is to solidify their own belief in it. Like Ab1, female devotee and another guests have said; worry about your own moksha/liberation/salvation and leaving the pointing out/judging to GOD.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

 

JAy Swaminarayan.

 

All the well. But shriji Maharaj has stated in the Sikshapatri that those who violate these rules shall be considered as a Vimukh by the satsangis. So we should be aware of who such vimukhs are in order to not do sang of such vimukhs. Its not just about solidifying ones own belief at all. Making BAPS a definate Vimukh.

[amrit]

Jay Swaminarayan

 

I got to BAPs Neasden temple but i can not feel the the true love and spiritual feeling of the Lord. But when i went to Swaminarayan temple Willeden i felt something amzing, PURE spirtuality of the Lord, why is that ?

 

Beacuse don't get me wrong i love my Pramukh Swami, he is the one and only. However there is something in Willeseden which is not in BAPs.

[vishaal]

a

[mac00uk]

 

Jay Swaminarayan

 

I got to BAPs Neasden temple but i can not feel the the true love and spiritual feeling of the Lord. But when i went to Swaminarayan temple Willeden i felt something amzing, PURE spirtuality of the Lord, why is that ?

 

Beacuse don't get me wrong i love my Pramukh Swami, he is the one and only. However there is something in Willeseden which is not in BAPs.

Its because the murtis are installed by Dharmvanshi Acharyas. As per accord of Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself (Read VAchnamrut 1).

And the rest of the Vachnamruts that state that the sampraday includes murtis, Saints, Acharyas and scriptures.

BAPS change alot of stuff. Swamianrayan Bhagwan does not live Pratyaksh in any other sansthas. Read the Satsangi Jivan for a more detailed version.

By reading such authentic text you will come to realise who the vimukhs are.

The mahima of the big BAPS temples is like that of my uncles house. He lives in a great big mansion, however this doesnt mean his house is pavitra and blessed. At the end of the day he still comes to my dads house as my dad is his elder brother. All my grandads prized possesions and heirlooms are with my dad. My uncle fell out with my grandad and was rejected by him as well.

The original Swaminarayan sampradays teaachings (under the dharmvanshi acharyas) has not gone against the teachings of Bhagwan Swaminarayan.

Whereas the upasna and Agna both have been lost within BAPS.Willesden mandir is under the guidance of Nar Narayana gadi under the dharmvanshi acharya of amdavad desh and the bhuj saints.

[Guest guest]

Lord Swaminarayan is the Supreme Lord and cause of all the incarnations.

[mac00uk]

Yes He sure is.

This is how it is!! The origianl Sampraday believes the same.

 

Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay!

[Guest guest]

the holy scriptures say:

what is the true litmus test to prove the authenticity of a spiritual master?

tha answer : "Antahkarana - Pravruttihi"

"When you see the spiritual master.. what happens within your antahkaran ? (I expect the readers do know what is antahkaran - or rather shall i just explain: Man Buddhi Chitt Ahankar!) What do you feel inside your antahkaran? that is the litmus test !

When I, a non-satsangi and ignorant in Swaminarayan tattvagnaan, saw GuruHari Pramukh Swami Maharaj for the first time...... I have never experienced such a wave of Love and Devotion.. such a spiritual surge in my soul... and this made me interested. and i began reading, and reading,.. and i was totally drenched in Bhakti towards this spiritual luminary. He did not have to say many words to me.. I became HIS; without any reservation.

And in my interest for books, i even came across these books which have on the cover : "Vancho, vicharo ane prachaar karo"... those books overflowing with insults to BAPS and Pramukh Swami Maharaj. i must say, the litmus test of "antahkaran pravrutii" came in handy... whereas i felt overjoyed, excited and full of devotion when I read the books of BAPS; reading these other books made me feel hurt, angry and so sad that people would actually go to such extremes to insult a param ekantik sant!

And I immediately knew who was the true successor of Lord Swaminarayan: The one which never abuses; never insults - nay respects the Juna Mandirs..

 

What is spiritual life? Is it fighting over who is the true sanstha? Or is it looking within and finding one's own doshas, and then finding a master who can eliminate such doshas???

i have found my answers to Life's toughest questions at the feet of my Guru Pramukh Swami Maharaj.

 

Overlooking your many comments, I wish you all well; just as my Guru would expect of me!

 

please dont take me for gullible, or ignorant of the holy scriptures..

please read Vach Gadh 1 27; Sarangpur 10, Gadh I 71; Vartal 5; Gadh II 22; Gadh I 37 etc.

you will soon find your answers...

[mac00uk]

Ok, i respect your views indeed. But what about the agya of Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself? Is it fine to break the rules he laid down~ and then go getting rid of the inner enemies?

Its all good to get rid of dosh's. You right. This has to be done no matter what.What about the ways bhagwan decided? On how to go about doing such? Param Ekantik saints are those which never ever go against the wishes of Bhagwan no matter in what circumstances.

You should read about Sadguru Sarvagyananand Swami and Sadguru Ghanshyamanand Swami. How they became saints. as to the extent they went to jsut to abide by Gods wishes and rules for santos. These my friend are Ekantik Saints.

S.g Gopalanand Swami, S.g Gunatitanand Swami. S.g Muktanand Swami. These are ekanti Siants. And in the modern age you should go to places like Bhuj, Muli, Amdavad. In fact if you want to see a real ekantik saint and are in the UK go and see Sadguru Shriharidas swami of Bhuj who is currently here!!!!! If you want to find out for yourself what a true param bhagwadi ekantik sant is i say go!!! A God sent Sant for sure.

They havent broke one commandemnt of God no matter what scripture you search., This isnt merely about finding the right sect or successor. This is about Moksh and the Agna and Upasna of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. Its all about pleasing Bhagwan Swaminarayan. Carrying out his agna and upasna. As if your talking about removing inner enemies then their are many people in the world with no satsang who have rid their inner enemies. Does this mean they are ekantik and are living life bhagwan Swaminarayan required? No, it just means that they will attain a better afterlife, and hopefully have the chance to recognise, love and follow thie wishes of Bhagwan.

 

BAPS no matter how much good they are doing, fail to comply with the wishes of God. What concens me more is when scriptures and Artis written by the likes of great saints such as Sadguru Muktanand Swami etc are being changed.

 

JAy Swaminarayan

Nar Narayan dev Ni Jay

[Guest guest]

gopalanand swami is akshar not gunatitanand swami. dont get me wrong, gunatitanand swami was one of the most powerfulest saints in our sampraday

but he is not akshar, gopalanand swami is. this is according to our main sampraday scriptures not baps scriptures or anything. bhagwan swaminarayan calls every mukta akshar mukta, but gopalanand swami is the actual akshar. read more MAIN swaminarayan scriptures not baps. once

maharaj said to gopalanand swami in front of a whole sabha, that how much power do you have, then gopalanand swami said who cares about my powers

(samarthi) mine is nothing to yours maharaj, then maharaj told him to say his powers anyway, and then gopalanand swami nsaid that he would be able to flip the universe around with just one finger of his.he also said that swaminarayan bhagwan would not have even have to come to earth to give mukti to everyone, he could have done it himself.but he also said yo everyone that his powers are nothing to swaminarayan bhagwan and ACHARYAS. he himself said that he is a servant of the acharyas and he would never go against them. this is what gopalanand swami is. and he has no egoism in him.