The Continuing story of the Lagna Sign Dispute ...

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> 1) Longevity

>

> Srila Prabhupada's good health and Longevity should be

> reflected in his horoscope. He lived upto the age of

> 81. After the age of 70 he travelled the world so many

> times, wrote and translated so many books, built so

> many temples etc. On his way to America at 70 he

> survived two heart attacks even though he was on his

> own (not really :-).

 

Dear Purushottama,

 

The Sagittarius ascendent also accounts for the heart attacks, i.e., ketu is

with the sun. I had to reformat my hard drive and don't have the dashas in

front of me, but I believe that the heart attacks ocurred in Mercury - Rahu

which, again, accounts for the afflection. Under Capricorn, I think that an

attack during Mercury-Saturn could have had worse consequenses. The fact

that they weren't fatal can easily be seen as supportive of Sagittarius as

ascendent. The moon under the Sagittarius lagna would have given

cardiovascular affliction.

 

The Sun afflicted by the nodes and bad lord Jupiter, in the eighth, under

Capricorn, would have given typically bad health. This is because the sun is

the karaka.

 

Saturn augurs well for longevity under Sagittarius lagna, too. I don't think

that the nodes in the eighth, afflicting the sun and bad lord jupiter, would

have allowed such longevity under Capricorn; in spite of the nice Saturn in

the tenth.

 

The glorius death can be accounted for by having the lord of the house of

the next destination, the 12th, in the 5th, a pious house connected to

Vishnu worship, along with the lord of the house of death, the eighth, in

the pious 5th, too. Besides that, the Deva Guru aspects both lords from the

house of Dharma.

 

>From Capricorn, the nodes afflict the 8th, which shows the mode and nature

of death, as well as the lord of the house of the next destination, the

12th.

 

So I feel that I have to disagree with your perspective on these points

under the Capricorn lagna, and I have to establish that the Sagittarius

lagna does account for these points very easily, without any word jugglery.

 

Yours,

 

Dharmapada Dasa/Dean

 

I think but am not certain, that

> at the age of five he survived typhoid, although the

> doctors said they had no cure. Certainly, his

> longevity and health was excellent. Furthermore, his

> death was a glorious one, the perfection of death. He

> passed on, in Vrindavana surrounded by the chanting of

> the holy name. All this, I believe, is far better

> reflected in a Capricorn Lagna chart than the

> Sagittarius one.

>

> In Capricorn, we see that the Lagna Lord Saturn (also

> the karaka for Longevity) is exalted in the tenth

> house. He has only just passed his maximum exaltation

> point and so is very strong. Further, he is

> unafflicted by anyone else. The same is the case for

> the Lagna who is also free from malefic aspects. The

> Sun, the karaka for health is also favourably placed.

> However this is not so important in our analysis, as

> this remains true for both Lagna's. So all these

> factors promise strong health.

>

> Now examine the Sagittarius Lagna - First and

> foremost, we have the Lagna at a rashi sandhi, a

> junction of signs, as it occupies the last degree of

> the sign (assuming the TOB is 3:29pm). This is itself

> dangerous, and depending on other afflictions may have

> caused accidents and difficult health problems

> (Remember, in the case of planets, Mantreshwara says

> that no matter how strong a planet is, place ment in

> sandhi's should always be considered first. While this

> doesn't mean ignore the rest of the picture, in this

> case the rest of the picture supports this). We then

> see that the Lagna is aspected by two natural

> malefics, Mars and Saturn, and apart from being

> natural malefics, they're not so good in terms of

> rulership either. Saturn is in fact a fully-fleged

> maraka, by virtue of owning the second and third. So

> the situation looks very dangerous now. The only good

> aspect is that of the Lagna Lord Jupiter. But even

> this is a VERY wide aspect (almost a whole sign), and

> as I will soon suggest, a very weak one. On the other

> hand, bring in Ketu's aspect, which although just as

> wide, has a bit more influence due to Ketu gaining

> strength from Jupiter's association. It's not nice so

> far. Now look at Jupiter, the Lagna Lord. He is in

> Bala avastha, sitting right next to Ketu who weakens

> him severely. What happens is Jupiter is made weaker

> by Ketu, while Ketu is made stronger by Jupiter.

> Furthermore Jupiter is aspected by Mars. This chart

> shows a much weaker man, whose health may have been

> bad from childhood, and who would go through many

> diseases without recovering.

>

> Now compare the eighth houses. The Capricorn chart

> shows a well fortified 8th, which is occupied by both

> the Sun it's ruler, and by Jupiter. There is also

> Ketu, but the strengths outweigh the weaknesses. Note

> that this also a very spiritual combination,

> especially as it's moksha Lords in a moksha house,

> this combination and the presence of Jupiter, suggests

> a peaceful death in some sacred place. The eighth is

> also aspected by Mars, who isn't too badly situated,

> and his exact aspect to the Sun may show the unending

> energy and motivation Srila Prabhupada had. Generally

> the picture's not bad at all. Let's now go over to the

> Sagittarius chart.

>

> We see that this time, the eighth is aspected by

> Saturn. This is not so bad, as Saturn is also the

> karaka for Longevity, and so may enhance it. The

> eighth Lord Moon is in the sixth house in it's

> Moolatrikona, which is again OK. However, it is in the

> Last pada of the sign and is associated with violent

> Mars (also twelfth Lord). This promises a violent

> death perhaps in an accident or something. In any case

> it's not as clear and accurate as the Capricorn chart.

> Further, it does not point to a long life. Perhaps a

> case could be made for madhya ayush, but going by what

> we saw from the Lagna, even this seems to long.

> Capricorn still seems more appropriate.

>

> Finally, a bit about the timing. Srila Prabhupada took

> samadhi on 14 November 1977. He was running Ketu

> Dasha. Ketu is of course in the eighth and afflicts

> the eighth Lord as well and is afflicted by and

> afflicts the twelfth Lord (moksha, future life). With

> Sagittarius Lagna, while perhaps you may say that Ketu

> strongly afflicts the Lagna Lord, there really is no

> strong case. The transit moon was in the eighth from

> the natal moon, but of course this happens for both

> charts. What doesn't happen for both however, is that

> with Capricorn, Saturn comes and activates the eighth

> house and the twenty-second drekkana by transit.

> Combining this with the other factors, the time in

> question really did look serious through the Capricorn

> Lagna. Not much of this can be seen from Sagittarius.

>

> So from the perspective of Longevity, Capricorn Lagna

> wins, I think. There are a number of other areas which

> I want to mention, but I have over-run enough already.

> So more soon,

>

> Hare Krishna,

>

> Pursottam

>

> __________

>

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>

>

> gjlist-

>

>

>

>

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Om Krishnaaya Namah

 

Hi Dharmapada,

 

Haribol! Up I climb onto my high horse...:-)

 

>>The Sagittarius ascendent also accounts for the

heart attacks, i.e., ketu is with the sun<<

 

I do agree that both charts do reflect the heart

attacks. However the point I made yesterday was that

it is the Capricorn chart which to me appears to be

showing a stronger health, and thus the fact that

Srila Prabhupada survived.

 

>>I had to reformat my hard drive and don't have the

dashas infront of me, but I believe that the heart

attacks ocurred in Mercury - Rahuwhich, again,

accounts for the afflection.<<

 

I'm kinda in a similar situation. Having had computer

problems of my own, I don't currently have GJ working

and considering that I use parallax as a variable, I

am a bit hesitant to discuss dasha's deeper than the

level of tha basic Maha Dasha.

 

>>The fact that they weren't fatal can easily be seen

as supportive of Sagittarius asascendent.<<

 

I don't see why Capricorn should make the attacks any

more fatal. On the contrary, I feel that using a

Sagittarius Lagna 'worsens' Srila Prabhupada's health,

and also his longevity. Indeed, with the Sagittarius,

I expect he would have gone back to Krishna much

earlier, as explained earlier.

 

>>Saturn augurs well for longevity under Sagittarius

lagna, too.<<

 

Yes, of course. However, judgement based on karaka's

is not as important for our purposes as judgement

based on houses and Lords. I presented my case on this

basis yesterday. Going to the points you made:

 

>>I don't think that the nodes in the eighth,

afflicting the sun and bad lord jupiter, would have

allowed such longevity under Capricorn; in spite of

the nice Saturn in the tenth.<<

 

My first point here is I don't see Jupiter in this

chart as being that bad for longevity. He also

sweetens down Ketu, and the Sun is there to protect

his own house. Considering that Ketu is far away (and

in a weak avastha) from the Sun, the threat is less.

Further, the Sun is quite strong by Shad Bala and

Ashtakavarga, which is of course helpful.

Nevertheless, the influeence of Ketu manifested at the

end of Ketu Mahadasha, which resulted in Srila

Prabhupada taking Samadhi. Next, the great strength of

the Lagna, in the Capricorn chart, is also helpful.

This is lacking in the Sagittarius chart, I believe.

 

>>The glorius death can be accounted for by having the

lord of the house ofthe next destination, the 12th, in

the 5th, a pious house connected toVishnu worship,

along with the lord of the house of death, the eighth,

inthe pious 5th, too. Besides that, the Deva Guru

aspects both lords from the house of Dharma.<<

 

I am now confused as to which house system you use. If

it's sign=house, then how do you get Mars and Moon in

the fifth (this is capricorn)? If it's Lagna=cusp of

each house, then how is Jupiter in the ninth? I have

so far assumed you used the former system. In this

case I don't see the argument put forward here.

Correct me where I am wrong, please.

 

>>From Capricorn, the nodes afflict the 8th, which

shows the mode and natureof death, as well as the lord

of the house of the next destination, the12th.<<

 

Yes, The Sun is a Moksha Lord, as is Jupiter. Ketu is

moksha karaka, all in a moksha house. That's a lot of

moksha. Further the Sun is protecting his house and

Jupiter is suggesting a pleasant and spiritual

atmosphere. I think this fit's perfectly.

 

>>So I feel that I have to disagree with your

perspective on these points under the Capricorn lagna,

and I have to establish that the Sagittarius lagna

does account for these points very easily<<

 

That's fine. All we're doing is weighing up the

arguments and making judgements, which we are entitled

to. I am perfectly happy for anyone to take any choice

having considered factors from both conditions.

 

>>without any word jugglery.<<

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! You hurt my

feelings!! I'm just a poor little baby. Seriously

though, if that is the impression you got, please

forgive me as it wasn't deliberate. If you also get

the impression that I am sitting on my big white

horse, forget that as well 'cos that's how it comes

out though it's not meant to. After all, this

articulation stuff is difficult!!!

 

Srila Prabhupada's Married life.

 

Srila Prabhupada married sometime around 1919, I think

and left his marriage in 1954 (although I believe his

wife went to her father's in 1950) after his wife

traded in His Srimad Bhagavatam - often called the

cream of Vedic literature - for tea bicuits, even

though as a strict Vaishnava, he did not drink tea. He

then offered an ultimatum - it was either the tea, or

her husband. She said she'd keep the tea. While it was

a long marriage, it is said that it was an unhappy

marriage, largely due to the conflict between Srila

Prabhupada's strict Vaishnava ideals and his wife's

desire to live independent of these values.

 

In both the charts, the karaka for marriage is weak.

Venus is debilitated, although it does get neecha

bhanga. In the Capricorn chart however, it is

associated with the Lord of the sixth, which may

perhaps harm the significations of marriage, although

admittedly, this same Lord is also Lord of the ninth.

 

Exalted and powerful Saturn, casts his powerful eyes

fully at the seventh house, which is a bit of a nasty

blow to the house. This of course explains the marital

trouble that came towards the end of Saturn Dasha. We

have a seventh Lord in Mulatrikona, but also in Bala

avastha, conjunct the malefic Mars. The Mulatrikona

bit may help explain the length of the marriage.

 

Rahu in the second, while not referring strictly to

marriage, does become important in showing family

memebers in general. That his wife was unorthodox fits

the picture. That his eldest son had psychological

problems and one day just got lost fits the picture.

That his second son completely opposed the Vaishnava

values taught by his father and in fact attempted to

sue ISKCON, also seems to fit this unorthodox,

unpredictable Rahu.

 

I'm not entirely sure when the formal split of 1954

happened. In any case it's near the Saturn Return

where people generally make major decisions about

their future, and shift their responsibilities. In

Srila Prabhupada's case, it also reactivates the

Saturn aspect on the seventh, and went ahead and split

the marriage.

 

In 1950, Saturn would have aspected the seventh Lord,

Rahu would have aspected the seventh house (fifth

aspect), and Jupiter ain't doing much.

 

Now going over to Sagittarius. The seventh house is

only aspected by Rahu, who is exalted there anyway.

The seventh Lord is exalted and unafflicted in the

tenth. The second has no affliction either. While this

explains the longevity of the marriage, it should have

been a happy one anyway, and shouldn't have ended. In

1950, by transit, you've got Jupiter protecting the

seventh, but the nodes over the seventh Lord. In 1954,

we have Ketu afflicting the seventh, but Jupiter also

protects it, while the seventh Lord is worry free.

 

All in all, I feel Capricorn better reflects this

aspect of Srila Prabhupada's life. Decision time

again,

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Pursottam

 

 

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