Gemstones

> http://www.jupitersweb.com/gemstones.htm

Hello All,

Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I find

some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be worn

on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the Second

finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

Regards

Venkatesh

February 1, 2001

I think I now understand it a little better with regards to diamond.

The website says that it depends upon the function of Sun or Saturn

in the native's chart.

In my case, Sun is in the seventh house in leo in Venus's nakshatra.

Saturn is retrograde in capricorn in the 12th house in Moon's

nakshatra. Venus is in the Ninth in Libra in Rahu's nakshatra.

Ascendant is Aquarius....

My guess is the diamond should be worn on the finger of Saturn. Any

thoughts?

gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> Dear Venkatesh,

>

> Please just follow the link below, and it will tell you about

gemstones and

> finger placements.

>

>

> ~Namaste~

> Sandy

>

> Hello All,

>

> Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I

find

> some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be worn

> on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the

Second

> finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

>

> Regards

>

> Venkatesh

February 1, 2001

Dear Venkatesh,

With Aquarius rising, and the functional nature of both Saturn and the Sun

being benefic and powerful in their own signs in your chart, I would wear

the diamond on either the ring or the middle finger, but my first choice

would be a blue sapphire worn on Saturn's middle finger to strengthen the

Aquarius lagna in its own mooltrikona sign.

~Namaste~

Sandy

swamyvk [swamyvk]

Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:06 AM

> http://www.jupitersweb.com/gemstones.htm

[gjlist] Re: Gemstones

I think I now understand it a little better with regards to diamond.

The website says that it depends upon the function of Sun or Saturn

in the native's chart.

In my case, Sun is in the seventh house in leo in Venus's nakshatra.

Saturn is retrograde in capricorn in the 12th house in Moon's

nakshatra. Venus is in the Ninth in Libra in Rahu's nakshatra.

Ascendant is Aquarius....

My guess is the diamond should be worn on the finger of Saturn. Any

thoughts?

gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> Dear Venkatesh,

>

> Please just follow the link below, and it will tell you about

gemstones and

> finger placements.

>

>

> ~Namaste~

> Sandy

>

> Hello All,

>

> Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I

find

> some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be worn

> on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the

Second

> finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

>

> Regards

>

> Venkatesh

February 1, 2001

Namaste Friends ,

In continuing the discussion on the use of appropriate gemstones for

aquarius ascendant I would like to add my two cents and also solicit

any opinion you all might have on this subject.

I too am an aquarius ascendant with Saturn in Scorpio, Venus and

Jupiter in Virgo(venus is 29.58deg) , Moon in Aquarius, Mars Sun and

Mer in Leo.

I wanted to wear Blue Spahhire but have been advised against wearing

Blue Sapphire as it could make oneself removed from worldly affairs

and induce them to take a more ascetic lifestyle.

I have tried Emerald because my Mercury is Retrograde and is hemmed

between Sun and Mars in Leo. But I have not had much success with it.

I have been asked to wear silver for my venus being in 8th house and

also gold for Jupiter for the same reason. But before doing so I was

wondering if I could get any advise from you all regarding pros and

cons of using any one of these Gemstones/Metals for the appeasement

of the appropriate planents.

Thanks

R Sundaram

February 1, 2001

I am wondering how Saturn becomes a benefic in my case, as he is in

the 12th in capricorn, Retrograde and with Ketu. I believe wearing a

Blue Sapphire in such a case could harm me--It can cause material

losses, increase worries, increase expenses, etc.

Everytime I have a Saturn period, I have noticed increased tension and

and worry. Here's a Gist of what has happened:

1. During the first Sadesati in 1986, my father passed away. I had to

take up additional responsibilities with regards to managing my

family's property etc. Of course, I landed a better job and got more

income. But expenses were equally high. Also in Venus/Saturn in 1990,

I left India to come to the US. No job for two years, but with my

sister's support I made a better life for myself.

2. Now in Sun/Saturn, I had a promotion, but office life became one

big hell. I am quitting my managerial position. So here too Good=Bad

happened.

My conclusion is there are mixed results. Diamond would be the best,

as Venus is in Libra in the Ninth aspected by both Jupiter in the Asc

and Saturn in the 12th. May be wearing a diamond on the finger of

saturn will calm the malefic effects of Saturn.

Any opinions?

gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> Dear Venkatesh,

>

> With Aquarius rising, and the functional nature of both Saturn and

the Sun

> being benefic and powerful in their own signs in your chart, I

would wear

> the diamond on either the ring or the middle finger, but my first

choice

> would be a blue sapphire worn on Saturn's middle finger to

strengthen the

> Aquarius lagna in its own mooltrikona sign.

>

> ~Namaste~

> Sandy

> > http://www.jupitersweb.com/gemstones.htm

>

> swamyvk@w... [swamyvk@w...]

> Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:06 AM

> gjlist

> [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

>

> I think I now understand it a little better with regards to diamond.

> The website says that it depends upon the function of Sun or Saturn

> in the native's chart.

>

> In my case, Sun is in the seventh house in leo in Venus's nakshatra.

> Saturn is retrograde in capricorn in the 12th house in Moon's

> nakshatra. Venus is in the Ninth in Libra in Rahu's nakshatra.

> Ascendant is Aquarius....

>

> My guess is the diamond should be worn on the finger of Saturn. Any

> thoughts?

>

> gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> > Dear Venkatesh,

> >

> > Please just follow the link below, and it will tell you about

> gemstones and

> > finger placements.

> >

> >

> > ~Namaste~

> > Sandy

> >

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I

> find

> > some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be

worn

> > on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the

> Second

> > finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Venkatesh

>

February 1, 2001

Seems like little do we know about the gems- except those "experts" selling

them..The first rule in psychology, medicine, astrology- it must not harm.

Mantras cannot, it seems.Prayers either.. I vote for a safer option. So many

times did we believe in certain things, proved to be wrong later.

Best luck

Anna

-

swamyvk

Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:05 PM

[gjlist] Re: Gemstones

I am wondering how Saturn becomes a benefic in my case, as he is in

the 12th in capricorn, Retrograde and with Ketu. I believe wearing a

Blue Sapphire in such a case could harm me--It can cause material

losses, increase worries, increase expenses, etc.

Everytime I have a Saturn period, I have noticed increased tension and

and worry. Here's a Gist of what has happened:

1. During the first Sadesati in 1986, my father passed away. I had to

take up additional responsibilities with regards to managing my

family's property etc. Of course, I landed a better job and got more

income. But expenses were equally high. Also in Venus/Saturn in 1990,

I left India to come to the US. No job for two years, but with my

sister's support I made a better life for myself.

2. Now in Sun/Saturn, I had a promotion, but office life became one

big hell. I am quitting my managerial position. So here too Good=Bad

happened.

My conclusion is there are mixed results. Diamond would be the best,

as Venus is in Libra in the Ninth aspected by both Jupiter in the Asc

and Saturn in the 12th. May be wearing a diamond on the finger of

saturn will calm the malefic effects of Saturn.

Any opinions?

gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> Dear Venkatesh,

>

> With Aquarius rising, and the functional nature of both Saturn and

the Sun

> being benefic and powerful in their own signs in your chart, I

would wear

> the diamond on either the ring or the middle finger, but my first

choice

> would be a blue sapphire worn on Saturn's middle finger to

strengthen the

> Aquarius lagna in its own mooltrikona sign.

>

> ~Namaste~

> Sandy

> > http://www.jupitersweb.com/gemstones.htm

>

> swamyvk@w... [swamyvk@w...]

> Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:06 AM

> gjlist

> [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

>

> I think I now understand it a little better with regards to diamond.

> The website says that it depends upon the function of Sun or Saturn

> in the native's chart.

>

> In my case, Sun is in the seventh house in leo in Venus's nakshatra.

> Saturn is retrograde in capricorn in the 12th house in Moon's

> nakshatra. Venus is in the Ninth in Libra in Rahu's nakshatra.

> Ascendant is Aquarius....

>

> My guess is the diamond should be worn on the finger of Saturn. Any

> thoughts?

>

> gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> > Dear Venkatesh,

> >

> > Please just follow the link below, and it will tell you about

> gemstones and

> > finger placements.

> >

> >

> > ~Namaste~

> > Sandy

> >

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I

> find

> > some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be

worn

> > on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the

> Second

> > finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Venkatesh

>

February 1, 2001

Dear Venkatesh,

To clear up any confusion, I am basing my finding on System's Approach. As a

matter of fact, when I first replied to you, I thought I was replying to a

query from the list I own and moderate, which is satva. So I

am sorry if I have confused you. I jumped the gun on the wrong list.

So to make a long story short, with Aquarius lagna, your chart's functional

malefics are Moon, Mercury, and the Nodes. Functional malefics in SA

(System's Approach) are the mooltrikona lords of the 6th, 8th, and 12th

houses. Saturn owns the 12th in your chart also, but Capricorn is not a

mooltrikona sign, therefore Saturn is not a functional malefic for you. And

for further clarity, Cancer is the MT (mooltrikona sign) of the Moon in SA,

and 6th lord in your chart. Virgo is the mooltrikona for Mercury and 8th

lord in your chart. Therefore, there would be absolutely no danger in

wearing a blue sapphire as you are not strengthening a functional malefic -

you are strengthening a functional benefic and your lagna lord, which

benefits the rest of your chart. Also Saturn, your lagna lord and functional

benefic for your chart, would welcome additional help if he is under the

malefic influence of the nodal axis. He's stressed. That is why I suggested

blue sapphire.

Whenever one is uncertain, and there are many confusions and inconsistencies

floating around with regard to "which stones or gems", and "where they

should or should not be placed", you can always count on a safe route, and

wear a kavach/amulet, in addition to propitiating the charts malefics

through remedial measures. I have written an article on Remedials for the

IIPA Journal - it can be found on my website if you are interested. Just go

to http://www.jupitersweb.com and click on "Sandy's Suite", scroll down, and

there you will find my article on Remedials.

My personal opinion is that a kavach combined with remedial measures is a

guarantee for success all the way around...much more so than investing in

expensive stones that may or may not be helpful - depending on your beliefs,

the gemstone quality, and spiritual intent of those selling these gems.

Please don't become further confused but do think it all through first. With

regards to your Saturn periods, please remember that transits supercede

dashas, and therefore it is very likely that there were other factors

responsible for some of the negative outcomes you have experienced during a

Saturn bhukti. Saturn, being afflicted by the nodes, would leave him very

weak and vulnerable, and in need of strengthening in order to bring about

the positive structuring qualities he is capable of in your chart. Sure,

he's getting hammered by the nodes but Saturn isn't all bad - he's your

lagna lord.

Hope this cleared up some of your confusion.

~Namaste~

Sandy

I am wondering how Saturn becomes a benefic in my case, as he is in

the 12th in capricorn, Retrograde and with Ketu. I believe wearing a

Blue Sapphire in such a case could harm me--It can cause material

losses, increase worries, increase expenses, etc.

Everytime I have a Saturn period, I have noticed increased tension and

and worry. Here's a Gist of what has happened:

1. During the first Sadesati in 1986, my father passed away. I had to

take up additional responsibilities with regards to managing my

family's property etc. Of course, I landed a better job and got more

income. But expenses were equally high. Also in Venus/Saturn in 1990,

I left India to come to the US. No job for two years, but with my

sister's support I made a better life for myself.

2. Now in Sun/Saturn, I had a promotion, but office life became one

big hell. I am quitting my managerial position. So here too Good=Bad

happened.

My conclusion is there are mixed results. Diamond would be the best,

as Venus is in Libra in the Ninth aspected by both Jupiter in the Asc

and Saturn in the 12th. May be wearing a diamond on the finger of

saturn will calm the malefic effects of Saturn.

Any opinions?

gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> Dear Venkatesh,

>

> With Aquarius rising, and the functional nature of both Saturn and

the Sun

> being benefic and powerful in their own signs in your chart, I

would wear

> the diamond on either the ring or the middle finger, but my first

choice

> would be a blue sapphire worn on Saturn's middle finger to

strengthen the

> Aquarius lagna in its own mooltrikona sign.

>

> ~Namaste~

> Sandy

> > http://www.jupitersweb.com/gemstones.htm

>

> swamyvk@w... [swamyvk@w...]

> Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:06 AM

> gjlist

> [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

>

> I think I now understand it a little better with regards to diamond.

> The website says that it depends upon the function of Sun or Saturn

> in the native's chart.

>

> In my case, Sun is in the seventh house in leo in Venus's nakshatra.

> Saturn is retrograde in capricorn in the 12th house in Moon's

> nakshatra. Venus is in the Ninth in Libra in Rahu's nakshatra.

> Ascendant is Aquarius....

>

> My guess is the diamond should be worn on the finger of Saturn. Any

> thoughts?

>

> gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> > Dear Venkatesh,

> >

> > Please just follow the link below, and it will tell you about

> gemstones and

> > finger placements.

> >

> >

> > ~Namaste~

> > Sandy

> >

> > Hello All,

> >

> > Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I

> find

> > some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be

worn

> > on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the

> Second

> > finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Venkatesh

>

February 1, 2001

Hello!

I have a nice book about gemstones by Gouri Shanker Kapoor. He says for the

Capricorn & Aquarius ascendents Saturn is the lord of the birth sign so blue

sapphire should be worn all their life.It will bestow all good things. It

will be strengthened if a Diamond (Venus Yogakaraka)is worn along with it.

BTW I'm looking for a Blue sapphire ring. If anyone has one & would like to

trade I have a beautiful Red Coral & also a Pearl Ring for Mars & Moon

Dasas respectively

manvantara

-

<swamyvk

Thursday, February 01, 2001 4:05 PM

[gjlist] Re: Gemstones

> I am wondering how Saturn becomes a benefic in my case, as he is in

> the 12th in capricorn, Retrograde and with Ketu. I believe wearing a

> Blue Sapphire in such a case could harm me--It can cause material

> losses, increase worries, increase expenses, etc.

>

> Everytime I have a Saturn period, I have noticed increased tension and

> and worry. Here's a Gist of what has happened:

>

> 1. During the first Sadesati in 1986, my father passed away. I had to

> take up additional responsibilities with regards to managing my

> family's property etc. Of course, I landed a better job and got more

> income. But expenses were equally high. Also in Venus/Saturn in 1990,

> I left India to come to the US. No job for two years, but with my

> sister's support I made a better life for myself.

>

> 2. Now in Sun/Saturn, I had a promotion, but office life became one

> big hell. I am quitting my managerial position. So here too Good=Bad

> happened.

>

> My conclusion is there are mixed results. Diamond would be the best,

> as Venus is in Libra in the Ninth aspected by both Jupiter in the Asc

> and Saturn in the 12th. May be wearing a diamond on the finger of

> saturn will calm the malefic effects of Saturn.

>

> Any opinions?

>

> gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> > Dear Venkatesh,

> >

> > With Aquarius rising, and the functional nature of both Saturn and

> the Sun

> > being benefic and powerful in their own signs in your chart, I

> would wear

> > the diamond on either the ring or the middle finger, but my first

> choice

> > would be a blue sapphire worn on Saturn's middle finger to

> strengthen the

> > Aquarius lagna in its own mooltrikona sign.

> >

> > ~Namaste~

> > Sandy

> >

> > swamyvk@w... [swamyvk@w...]

> > Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:06 AM

> > gjlist

> > [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

> >

> > I think I now understand it a little better with regards to diamond.

> > The website says that it depends upon the function of Sun or Saturn

> > in the native's chart.

> >

> > In my case, Sun is in the seventh house in leo in Venus's nakshatra.

> > Saturn is retrograde in capricorn in the 12th house in Moon's

> > nakshatra. Venus is in the Ninth in Libra in Rahu's nakshatra.

> > Ascendant is Aquarius....

> >

> > My guess is the diamond should be worn on the finger of Saturn. Any

> > thoughts?

> >

> > gjlist, "Sandy Crowther" <sandy@t...> wrote:

> > > Dear Venkatesh,

> > >

> > > Please just follow the link below, and it will tell you about

> > gemstones and

> > > finger placements.

> > >

> > > http://www.jupitersweb.com/gemstones.htm

> > >

> > > ~Namaste~

> > > Sandy

> > > http://www.jupitersweb.com/

> > >

> > > Hello All,

> > >

> > > Which is the appropriate finger to wear a diamond (for venus)? I

> > find

> > > some conflicting opinions. One opinion says a diamond should be

> worn

> > > on the little finger. The second says it should be worn in the

> > Second

> > > finger (Finger of Saturn). Can any of you shed some light on this?

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Venkatesh

> >

> > gjlist-

>

>

February 1, 2001

Manvantara,

Hope you don't mind me putting my cent's worth in here!

I have Capricorn rising with Asc lord SA suffering from placement in 6th

house...but NEVER would I consider wearing a Blue Sapphire (due to 2nd house

being Saturn's moolatrikona sign). For me SA aspects VE and SU, and

strengthening him would certainly be detrimental to the significations of

these planets, as well as to the houses they rule. The GREATEST care must be

taken in regards to strengthening SA.

Regards

Wendy

manvantara [manvantara]

Friday, February 02, 2001 10:46 AM

Re: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

Hello!

I have a nice book about gemstones by Gouri Shanker Kapoor. He says for the

Capricorn & Aquarius ascendents Saturn is the lord of the birth sign so blue

sapphire should be worn all their life.It will bestow all good things. It

will be strengthened if a Diamond (Venus Yogakaraka)is worn along with it.

BTW I'm looking for a Blue sapphire ring. If anyone has one & would like to

trade I have a beautiful Red Coral & also a Pearl Ring for Mars & Moon

Dasas respectively

manvantara

February 1, 2001

Hi Sandy,

>My personal opinion is that a kavach combined with remedial measures is a

>guarantee for success all the way around...much more so than investing in

>expensive stones that may or may not be helpful - depending on your

>beliefs,

>the gemstone quality, and spiritual intent of those selling these gems.

>

>Please don't become further confused but do think it all through first.

Thanks for making me laugh out aloud in the midst of this tragic and

shocking incidents in India. Thanks. But can you change a person's destiny

with Kavach (Talisman) and Gems. If that was so, no one on this earth would

be suffering losses. And believe me, most of the Gujarat, where maximum

deaths have taken place in this earthquake, are strong believers in

astrology, have trade in diamonds and gems, and then they should not have

died, their houses should not have collapsed.

Only thing which works is "OFFERING PRAYERS TO HIM WHO CREATED US WITH OUR

FALLCIES AND TRUTHS" Admit it.

regards,

Manoj

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

February 2, 2001

Re: Gems,

In the "Garuda Puranam" chap.68, verse 17 it is stated by Sri Suta Goswami:

"Pure, flawless gems have auspicious powers which can protect one from

demons, snakes, poisons, diseases, sinful reactions, and other dangers,

while flawed stones have the opposite affect."

Again from the ancient "Agni Puranam" chap.246, slokas 7&8:

" A gem free from all impurities and radiating it's characteristic internal

lustre should be looked upon as an escort of good luck; A gem which is

cracked, fissured, devoid of lustre, or appearing rough or sandy, should not

be used at all."

Jyotish quality gems are hard to find and therefore rather expensive. Even

people in (so called) affluent countries can find them "out of reach"...what

to say then of people living in poorer countries...the opportunity to

purchase bad quality gems from unscrupulous or perhaps just

ignorant/misguided gem dealers is huge. Many there must be who are

inadvertently increasing their affliction by wearing bad quality gems.

In all things related to jyotish, the best advice (from the most reputable

people) should be sought...advice from those unqualified to give it can be

harmful.

For those (very) poor, who cannot afford the recommended yagyas or gems,

there are the appropriate mantras, prayers, etc, which require great effort

and discipline...not always easy for "westerners" to master.

Regards

Wendy

Anna [anmar]

Friday, February 02, 2001 8:40 AM

Re: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

Seems like little do we know about the gems- except those "experts" selling

them..The first rule in psychology, medicine, astrology- it must not harm.

Mantras cannot, it seems.Prayers either.. I vote for a safer option. So many

times did we believe in certain things, proved to be wrong later.

Best luck

Anna

February 2, 2001

---

>

> Only thing which works is "OFFERING PRAYERS TO HIM WHO CREATED US

WITH OUR

> FALLCIES AND TRUTHS" Admit it.

>

> regards,

>

> Manoj

>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

Namaste dear Manoj!!

thankyou for so clearly stating what i had been feeling most strongly

thru this debate on Gemstones....as far as i can see, the idea of

Gemstones is mostly a good one for the jewellers and the Jyotishis who

prescribe them....i think i would be VERY careful about wearing any

gems such as the blue sapphire to strengthen Saturn.....there are

other much safer, and possibly more effective ways to deal with Sani's

"unwelcome attentions"....

as far as i know, you have the best answer of all......

Sani's influence as i understand it, is to bring us to the

understanding that this is NOT our home, our body, our permanent

family, or job, or friends....that we are all travellers in this life,

and that the family and friends are merely fellow travellers staying

at the same inn for a while...When we get too attached to these ideas

of permanence, then Sani has the job to remind us of the real

priorities here....and this is not a pleasant job either for Sani or

us...but it is necessary...i find it a lot easier to see Sani in the

form of Mother Kali, and thus it is easier to see that She is

attempting to teach us the proper way to live...not just punishing us

mindlessly for nothing, but giving us the discipline so as to

become aware of the realities and non-realities of this life....

So in my understanding, as you have said, if we have "troubles" from

Sani, the absolute best remedy is to get REAL friendly with Her....to

make Her one of the family (as She already is anyways!!)...to include

Her in your prayers....to wholeheartedly SURRENDER to the Divine....

Then those lessons which She is teaching us, will appear in an

entirely different light! and in our humility, perhaps we will

actually get the message!

we tend all too easily in this "modern" instant culture to rely upon

quick "fix-its"....and these gems appear to be so EASY a way to deal

with the difficult Grahas....however if we do not have the right

attitude towards the Grahas...of respect, and love, of inclusion, then

how can such a simple thing as the Gem fix it all for us????More

likely than not, if it is a blue sapphire for Saturn, and we try such

a quick fix, we will simply have dug the materialistic hole even

deeper, and it won't "work" the way we had hoped, but rather might

even make things much worse!!!

So there is nothing to replace true Bhakti, and Surrender to the

Divine...and in reality the Grahas are merely trying to redirect our

attentions to the Divine anyways...so we might as well be

willing...and do it ourselves, before Mother Kali feels the need to

get out Her huge chopper to remove our disgusting Ego heads.....

As Sri Ramakrsna used to say, if we would only cry our hearts out for

the Divine....only a full day's worth even, then the Divine just

couldn't stay away....but who cries a jug full of tears for the

Divine? We'll cry for our jobs, our families, and other worldly

things...but who cries for God?....

In the Divine Mother's Love,

and in Her Service,

this littlest child

of Hers

makes koti koti pranams,

bowing humbly

again and again!

as ever,

your own self,

visvanathan

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!!

February 2, 2001

Dear Manoj and List Members,

The conduct and manner in which a jyotishi conducts himself speaks volumes

about character. Someone here should reference that. I prefer benevolence of

character. Based on that, this will be my last response to you or others on

gemstones.

I'm not interested in controversy, nor do I wish to provoke you or others on

this list. I didn't respond to perpetuate any arguments about kavach's or

gemstones. I do not sell either - I was merely expressing what has worked

for myself and my clients based on my own personal experience for the past

30 years. Just sharing.

You are free to agree or not. I am not intolerant of your opinion or other

list members opinions. I am, however, sensitive to the manner in which you

and others express your opinions.

My only reason for responding to you is that you asked me to "admit"

something about offering prayers. In my article on remedials, which is what

I recommended Venkatesh read, prayer is mentioned as the 'ultimate' remedial

measure no less than 10 times. Nothing gets higher billing. Hope that also

brings a smile to your face.

~Namaste~

Sandy

Manoj Pathak [manojpathak]

Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:43 PM

RE: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

Hi Sandy,

>My personal opinion is that a kavach combined with remedial measures is a

>guarantee for success all the way around...much more so than investing in

>expensive stones that may or may not be helpful - depending on your

>beliefs,

>the gemstone quality, and spiritual intent of those selling these gems.

>

>Please don't become further confused but do think it all through first.

Thanks for making me laugh out aloud in the midst of this tragic and

shocking incidents in India. Thanks. But can you change a person's destiny

with Kavach (Talisman) and Gems. If that was so, no one on this earth would

be suffering losses. And believe me, most of the Gujarat, where maximum

deaths have taken place in this earthquake, are strong believers in

astrology, have trade in diamonds and gems, and then they should not have

died, their houses should not have collapsed.

Only thing which works is "OFFERING PRAYERS TO HIM WHO CREATED US WITH OUR

FALLCIES AND TRUTHS" Admit it.

regards,

Manoj

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February 2, 2001

Hi Sandy,

I am always smiling. Whether you agree to me or not, it is immaterial for

me. I am one, who is open and willing to accept new theories and theologies

and new ideas always.

But as you say, you have been practising it for past 30 years, may I request

you to be kind enough to just post one chart, where the gems or kavach

changed the destiny of a single person. If that can happen, the entire Karma

theory and theory of rebirth and reincarnation shall come crumbling down.

Whatever Lord Krishna has said in Geeta, shall become zero and shall remain

of no consequence.

I am extremely happy to know that you to importance of prayers in

life.

Vasudev sutam-devam, kans-chanoor-mardanam

Devki parma-nandam, krishnam vande jagat-gurum

with best wishes and best regards,

Manoj

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February 2, 2001

All I asked was a simple question..and it has turned into a tirade of

opinions about everything else but the basic question--On which

finger should a diamond be worn...

Please do not be offended dear friends! You are entitled to your

opinions..I have no problems with that...I just wanted to experiment

and see if wearing a diamond will really help in my case...

I just want to develop a state of mind that is better than the

current one. I would like to worry less for a change. The fourth and

the ninth lords (venus in my case) are important, as the fourth rules

the mind, and the ninth rules connection with god and Dharma.

My belief is strengthening the ninth and the fourth lords will enhance

the state of mind, knowing that I have a debilitated moon in the

tenth and the lagna/12th lord in the 12th afflicted by the nodes..

I have seen various fingers for diamond being suggested. One of you

said that the ring finger or the saturn finger is good.

Can someone second that opinion or suggest another opinon restricted

to wearing the diamond and not digress into the lord and prayers to

him, repentance and meditation, etc, etc, I would really appreciate

it.

I am not all that religous or into mantras, but I try to lead an

honest life as far as possible. I cannot fathom washing off my sins

in any manner in this life or the next, because no sooner I beg for

forgiveness, I commit another sin. I cannot avoid sinning (as defined

in the ancient scriptures and other rules of morality), because bad

thoughts themselves are sins. How can I avoid bad thoughts? For

example, erotic thinking or thoughts of anger, jealousy, pride,etc.

Even If I do not act upon them, I am still a sinner.

I wonder how begging for forgiveness and repeating the sins can help

any soul. The best one can do is hope..Prayers do help. I would like

to try a diamond to see it it helps too. Just a different approach. I

do not expect it to make dramatic changes in my life, but I would

like to experiment.

So please, help me if you have the knowledge. I will respect you for

that.

Thanks

Venkatesh

February 2, 2001

Hello Manoj and Sandy,

Namaskaar,

As for as I know only one with yogic power can move away from his karma results

that also by burning the seed which resulted from his karma's, in that case the

good and bad both will burn, it is never possible that you ask the God through

prayers (I will consider it , by slavery to the God ) You get relief for your

bad deeds and You keep in tact the Good one's.

By prayers to the God you get sufficient power to face the bad period and you

get inner vision to do the Good in future.

No kavach can protect any body from the bad results , which one is destined to

face as per his birth chart, also No Gem stone can protect from the bad deeds

one has committed.

Donations , fasting divert some bad to good . Gem Stones increases the power of

the star to which they are related with no interference in the past Karma. If

the star to which the Gem is related is a benefic to the native, by the rays of

that planet he may think and act in such a way that it will be beneficial to him

in his future and future lives. Reverse is true for a Gem related to malefic.

With Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni.

February 3, 2001

Hello Manoj and Sandy,

Namaskaar,

As for as I know only one with yogic power can move away from his karma results

that also by burning the seed which resulted from his karma's, in that case the

good and bad both will burn, it is never possible that you ask the God through

prayers (I will consider it , by slavery to the God ) You get relief for your

bad deeds and You keep in tact the Good one's.

By prayers to the God you get sufficient power to face the bad period and you

get inner vision to do the Good in future.

No kavach can protect any body from the bad results , which one is destined to

face as per his birth chart, also No Gem stone can protect from the bad deeds

one has committed.

Donations , fasting divert some bad to good . Gem Stones increases the power of

the star to which they are related with no interference in the past Karma. If

the star to which the Gem is related is a benefic to the native, by the rays of

that planet he may think and act in such a way that it will be beneficial to him

in his future and future lives. Reverse is true for a Gem related to malefic.

With Regards,

Inder Jit Sahni.

February 5, 2001

| it is never possible that you ask the God through prayers (I

| will consider it , by slavery to the God ) You get relief for

| your bad deeds and You keep in tact the Good one's.

Sahni-ji,

Thanks for your opinion but the sastra does not support it:

karma-jam buddhi-yukta hi

phalam tyaktva manisinah

janma-bandha-vinirmuktah

padam gacchanty anamayam

The wise, engaged in devotional service, take refuge in the

Lord, and free themselves from the cycle of birth and death by

renouncing the fruits of action in the material world. In this way

they can attain that state beyond all miseries. [Gita 2.51]

yasya ha vava ksuta-patana-praskhalanadisu vivasah sakrn

namabhigrnan purusah karma-bandhanam anjasa vidhunoti yasya haiva

pratibadhanam mumuksavo 'nyathaivopalabhante

"If one who is embarrassed by hunger or who falls down or

stumbles chants the holy name of the Lord even once, willingly or

unwillingly, he is immediately freed from the reactions of his

past deeds. Karmis entangled in material activities face many

difficulties in the practice of mystic yoga and other endeavors to

achieve that same freedom." [srimad-Bhagavatam 5.24.20]

go-brahmana-vaisnave himsa karyachi apara

sei papa ha-ite mora ha-uka nistara

"The Mohammedan governor then prayed for liberation from the

unlimited sinful activities he had previously incurred by being

envious of brahmanas and Vaisnavas and killing cows."

PURPORT

By chanting the holy names Krsna and Hari, one is certainly

liberated from sinful activities, such as killing cows or

insulting brahmanas and Vaisnavas. It is most sinful to kill cows

and insult brahmanas and Vaisnavas. The karma incurred by such

activity is very great, but one can immediately nullify all this

karma by surrendering to Lord Krsna and chanting His holy name.

After being released from one's sinful reactions (karma), one

becomes eager to serve the Lord. This is the test. Since the

Mohammedan governor was immediately purified in the presence of

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he could utter the names of Krsna and

Hari. Consequently he was anxious to render some service...

[sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 16.189]

There are literally HUNDREDS of references like this in the sastra. Please

read and take advantage.

Best regards,

Dasanudas

February 5, 2001

Dear listmembers

Regarding the information on functional malefics - if a planet rules a

malefic house (as moolitrikona) and the ascendent, which presides? For

example, Mars for Scorpio rising.

Thanks in advance

marcia

February 5, 2001

Hello Marcia,

One of the greatest problems with jyotish today is the controversy that

develops (very quickly) between people with different opinions. So much so

in fact, that when a question is asked, most astrologers are reluctant to

answer it for fear of the backlash that's sure to come.

So I have my fingers crossed that my answer to your question is not going to

incite another controversy as this is (most certainly) not my intention.

As in all things, the horoscope as a whole should be judged before coming to

a decision. For Scorpio ascendant Mars owns both the 1st and 6th houses (the

6th being his moolatrikona sign).

My (personal) opinion is that if Mars is badly afflicted and not aspecting

other planets (particularly benefics), then during Mars Dasa one may benefit

by strengthening ascendant lord. But the whole horoscope must be looked at

very carefully with a watchful eye on "what harm can 6th lord bring to other

planets."

The basic rule is that one should never strengthen lords of malefic

houses...to my mind, if the malefic house happens to be his moolatrikona

sign, then the greatest care should be taken in this regard.

Observation over the years has convinced me that 9th house is the prime

indication of whether a native may (or may not) benefit from the use of

remedial measures. A native with strong/favourable 9th house has the good

fortune/karma to benefit from gems/yagyas etc...a malefic in 9th, or

weak/afflicted 9th lord would deny one from such a blessing, or perhaps lead

him/her to wrong information or wrong/imperfect gems.

I believe that by benefiting from the use of gems/yagyas etc, is not so much

finding an "easy fix" for one's bad karma, as it's (more appropriately)

"benefiting from one's good karma" manifesting through 9th house.

Let's recap on 9th house for a moment:

* Religion/philosophy

* Guru/Teacher

* Higher education

* Natural law

* Good luck/Good fortune

* Yagyas/Natural remedies

* Solutions to problems

I leave you with a quote from a most a most respected proponent of Vedic

Knowledge:

"Gems are wonderful gifts of nature that have been created and refined over

thousands of years by the immense organizing power of natural law. Wearing

the proper gemstone(s) recommended by a qualified Jyotish pundit has been a

tradition for thousands of years."

MMY.

Regards

Wendy

Marcia [marcia]

Tuesday, February 06, 2001 7:21 AM

RE: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones

Dear listmembers

Regarding the information on functional malefics - if a planet rules a

malefic house (as moolitrikona) and the ascendent, which presides? For

example, Mars for Scorpio rising.

Thanks in advance

marcia