Reincarnation

February 1, 2001

Dear Chris et al,

Some years ago I read a book by a turkish doctor, who investigated over 200

cases of re-incarnation. Unfortunately I have forgotten the name etc. of the

book and author. He started off by seeing the scar of a bullet wound in the

breast of a boy, who had never been shot at! The boy had complete memories of a

very recent past life, in which he had been shot to death exactly where the scar

was! The Moslem doctor - by religion neither averse to nor taught about

reincarnation - was intrigued, spent his own money to investigate the case. The

boy was exonerated: he recognized his previous family members in a neighbouring

village, even found the the money he had hidden, established a new relationship

with his former wife and children: no longer husband and father, but as child

and brother!

This led the doctor to investgate other cases. About 10% were uncertain, but 90%

was certain. The disaster: it undermines the classical concepts of karma as

"crime and punishment"! After reading that book I have come to the conclusion

that "Karma" means only "lessons": experiences that one has to gather, in some

order or other; NOT specifically as a consequence; if one "misses the point" one

may have to repeat the experience to get the gist of the lesson - and no more.

I am in contact with Seth of Jane Roberts´ fame. What I see is that everything

is in a state of flux, being. The tendencies are there, but NOTHING is certain!

in the end, it seems as if our intention counts more than what we actually do!

Only this can explain the Gita: the killing does not matter, but doing one´s

dharma does! Both parties in the war expiated their "evil" intentions, but their

honouring their dharma was rewarded!

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing!" ...... Perhaps

they will be "punished" with a hard life, who derive pleasure from doing evil!

Joan of Arc went into battle to save France, fully knowing that her soldiers

would kill the enemy soldiers! Does she roast in hell? With the Marqis de Sade

it may be different! Perhaps he was born in Yugoslavia as a woman and got raped

a 1000 times!

regards

Mani

December 22, 2001

Dear All

Following natabara's post on reincarnation and wisedom I'd like to post an

experience I had while traveling in India.

We (my s/o and I) were on the train from Agra back to New Delhi. The train is

an amazing mass of humanity of all kinds. From the simplest, men in turbans

and sparse clothing, to a groups of yound women dressed in western denim and

enough diamonds in their ears to put a Dallas social climber to shame.

Anyway, we had our ticmets and seat assignments and like dutiful westerners we

assumed those seats would be waiting for us. When we got there they were all

taken. It seems that India has a wonderful tolerance for travelers who cannot

afford to pay and so these seats were filled with the turbaned men with walking

sticks and very simple cloths as slothing. This, by the way was January and it

was fairly chilly in the evening.

Well, one of the wealthy young women saw us and immediately stodd up and pointed

to the seat beside her, for me to sit. D.L. my sweetie was pointed to the seat

facing me but accross the aisle. He would sit with the men and I with the

women. This was very kind for me, I'm 5'9 and fair, DL is 6'1 and we were

giants wherever we went. There is no political correctness so men and women

alike stared at me. Afterall, I was a novelty <grins>

Anyway, now that the stage has been set, understand that an Indian train is

teaming with life. Laughter, talking, people moving about playing games and

visiting. It is wonderful to feel so many so alive. At every stop vendors

would come onboard to sell food. Beggars would also send in their children

would would crawl upon the floor and feign impediments even if they had none.

Now, I loved giving out rupies because what is simple change here is abundance

there. I could forego a coke to give another money for fruit or for dinner.

OK, finally, the beggard children came onboard and one yound woman said to me

"don't look at them." I was surprised, afterall, how could you not look? I

knew better than to hand out money in an enclosed area, but how could you not

look and at least offer a smile?

She told me that her grandmother told her that she must have been very good in a

former life to have been given so much in this one. The implication being that

the poor children had not been so good. It set my mind to wondering, what if

the beggar children were so very wise and kind that they took on this role to

help those whose hearts are blocked to begin to open them with generocity?

It was just a thought then, but it stays with me. I think that we are all

ignornat and can only do the best we can from day to day. Putting one foot in

front of the other and trying to help and navigate the stream where we find

ourselves.

I apologize if my simple-minded ignorance has offended anyone here. I once

relatyed this story on another list and was slammed as a crass and ignorant

American. Well, there you have it....that I am too.

musing in "D"

c

December 22, 2001

Dear Cynthia

Your attitude is the correct one .

The doctrine of reincarnation should never be used as a justification for

callousness to human difficulty .Unfortunately there are a lot of

misconceptions In India and many believe they have some sort of a higher birth

but the sastra says kalau sudra sambavah in the age of Kali everyone is born

sudra .Still an Indian birth is considered glorious because this is where

Krishna and the other incarnations appear so the country is favorable for

spiritual advancement . Since Lord Visnu sits in the heart of the beggar

children their bodies are temples (abode of Lord Visnu ) and it is all right to

look at them .

Hope this clarifies things

Nicholas

-

cynthia novak

gjlist

Sunday, December 23, 2001 3:36 AM

Re: [GJ] reincarnation