Guest guest Posted February 2, 2001 Report Share Posted February 2, 2001 Manoj Pathak wrote: > Hi Sandy, ............> > But as you say, you have been practising it for past 30 years, may I request > you to be kind enough to just post one chart, where the gems or kavach > changed the destiny of a single person. If that can happen, the entire Karma > theory and theory of rebirth and reincarnation shall come crumbling down. > Whatever Lord Krishna has said in Geeta, shall become zero and shall remain > of no consequence. Dear Manoj, How can you expect what you demand? Even if wearing a gem or kavach "coincided" with a clear turn of events, how can you be sure the talieman did the trick? You don´t have the "control" of the same person NOT wearing the talisman to compare with! If a wearer of a talisman experiments by putting it off for a period, suffers, puts it on again and stops suffering etc. a few times in succession, we could believe in the efficacy. As to the karma theory, I think it is NOT truly understood by most of us. I have long ago given up the "tit for tat" and "consequence" theories: not only are these ideas illogical philosophically if no memory of the past deed is alive, but also many re-incarnation cases and "near death" studies do not support these ideas. In my personal talks with people like Moody (US) and Kage (Germany) who have been studying these things for years we came to the conclusion that karma is a series of experiences only. The sequence is not always "consequence", but connected serially in groups of experience like "violence", "prosperity", "relationships" etc. where negative and positive one another. It further seems that the "soul" in a body is only a fraction of its whole, which I call the Mega-soul. Other fractions may be gathering experiences in other bodies here or even on other worlds. A very interesting "discovery" was that in sequential experiences it was NOT the same soul-fraction that incarnated to go through the opposite experience!!! The experience is shared by all the other fractions and each "fraction" can take a bit of rest, while another goes out to explore. In most "near death" reports one hears of "waste", NOT "sin".It would seem that apart from passively experiencing things, we are expected to contribute to creation: to add to the architecture of "Vaikuntha", a place where God and the Mega-souls can live together in peace. So if we do not use our given talents to do - or strive to do - something positive, it becomes a "sin", a "waste". Read the parable of the TALENTS in the New Testament! To revert to talismans: I don´t think they change "fate" or our "purpose" in this incarnation. They may, however, help us by concentrating cosmic energy to help us to go through our experiences with less pain, nd also bring us clarity as to how to use the circumstances to "OUR" benefit. "OUR" is meant collectively, free of "I" amd "ME", free of "ahambhava", ..... Verily, verily, I say unto thee, NONE of us will enter into Vaikuntha until ALL OF US ARE FULLY QUALIFIED! They that are qualified will be sent back to guide and lead those that have fallen on the way! The shepherd will not take the flock to the pen, till the 100th sheep is found and saved!.... Amen! Wendy wrote: In the "Garuda Puranam" chap.68, verse 17 it is stated by Sri Suta Goswami: "Pure, flawless gems have auspicious powers which can protect one from demons, snakes, poisons, diseases, sinful reactions, and other dangers, while flawed stones have the opposite affect." Again from the ancient "Agni Puranam" chap.246, slokas 7&8: " A gem free from all impurities and radiating it's characteristic internal lustre should be looked upon as an escort of good luck; A gem which is cracked, fissured, devoid of lustre, or appearing rough or sandy, should not be used at all." Here we come to a very practical problem: - how big must the gem be? - how is its purity to be seen? What are the standards of lustre etc.? Only semi-precious gems form naturally lustrous crystals - like amethyst or citronite. For the average person a natural diamond or ruby or saphiire looks like a common pebble! Every river bed has stones of these colours. With a bit of experience one can differentiate and say that one or the other is worth investigating! But then the actual "lustre" is brought about by other processes: cutting, polishing - and apparently heating. I don´t know how the last works, but many say that heating ruins the esoteric properties! But the usual jeweller has only such that have been treated fully, including heat, for he sells by appearance. For about $200 one can buy a diamond, ruby or saphire from an esoteric shop: the crystals are natural, apparently "flawless", but rarely show "lustre", for the facets are not regular enough for perfect reflection of light. Most of them look rather "Sandy" - Dear Sandy, please excuse me for the "pun", no insult meant, but only a laugh since you have written on the subject! A giggle now and then is good for the loaded heart! About 15 years ago I had the fortune of seeing the famous "Baroda Carpet" at the Indian Exhibition in New York! It is actually more a tapestry, to be hung on the wall, not for walking on. About 8 feet wide, 4 feet high, on the wall. The entire fabric is covered by natural pearls, with floral(?) designs made of gems. A very colourful decoration for the wall, BUT IT DOES NOT SPARKLE! The gems are cut with very few facets and not very well polished: not "sellable" by modern standards of jewellery except as antiques! So it is difficult to conform to the standards of the puranas! It is not just a material matter, a moral question is involved, as Manoj implicates: the buying of the gem may be just that - or mean a "sacrifice", an intention with a devoted attitude! It may mean, "buy the best"! But by which standards of quality, lustre etc. - puranic or modern? Prayer seems to be the best: It has never prevented misfortunes in my life, but it has given me strength - and practical help - to bear them and to learn from them! Particularly in the recent past I have had many minor disasters, but each has brought positive experiences! We have to understand "life", not "fate"! regards Mani Ps "Many a gem of purest ray serene the dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear .......... - Gray´s "Elegy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2001 Report Share Posted February 2, 2001 Dear Mani, You summed it up nicely, viz. - "To revert to talismans: I don´t think they change "fate" or our "purpose" in this incarnation. They may, however, help us by concentrating cosmic energy to help us to go through our experiences with less pain, nd also bring us clarity as to how to use the circumstances to "OUR" benefit." Very best - Sateesh. ======== - <subra <gjlist> 02 February 2001 18:17 RE: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones/purity/ Baroda Carpet > Manoj Pathak wrote: > > Hi Sandy, > > ...........> > > > But as you say, you have been practising it for past 30 years, may I request > > you to be kind enough to just post one chart, where the gems or kavach > > changed the destiny of a single person. If that can happen, the entire Karma > > theory and theory of rebirth and reincarnation shall come crumbling down. > > Whatever Lord Krishna has said in Geeta, shall become zero and shall remain > > of no consequence. > > Dear Manoj, > > How can you expect what you demand? Even if wearing a gem or kavach "coincided" > with a clear turn of events, how can you be sure the talieman did the trick? You > don´t have the "control" of the same person NOT wearing the talisman to compare > with! If a wearer of a talisman experiments by putting it off for a period, > suffers, puts it on again and stops suffering etc. a few times in succession, we > could believe in the efficacy. > > As to the karma theory, I think it is NOT truly understood by most of us. I have > long ago given up the "tit for tat" and "consequence" theories: not only are > these ideas illogical philosophically if no memory of the past deed is > alive, but also many re-incarnation cases and "near death" studies do not > support these ideas. In my personal talks with people like Moody (US) and Kage > (Germany) who have been studying these things for years we came to the > conclusion that karma is a series of experiences only. The sequence is not > always "consequence", but connected serially in groups of experience like > "violence", "prosperity", "relationships" etc. where negative and positive one > another. > > It further seems that the "soul" in a body is only a fraction of its whole, > which I call the Mega-soul. Other fractions may be gathering experiences in > other bodies here or even on other worlds. A very interesting "discovery" was > that in sequential experiences it was NOT the same soul-fraction that incarnated > to go through the opposite experience!!! The experience is shared by all the > other fractions and each "fraction" can take a bit of rest, while another goes > out to explore. > > In most "near death" reports one hears of "waste", NOT "sin".It would seem that > apart from passively experiencing things, we are expected to contribute to > creation: to add to the architecture of "Vaikuntha", a place where God and the > Mega-souls can live together in peace. So if we do not use our given talents to > do - or strive to do - something positive, it becomes a "sin", a "waste". Read > the parable of the TALENTS in the New Testament! > > To revert to talismans: I don´t think they change "fate" or our "purpose" in > this incarnation. They may, however, help us by concentrating cosmic energy to > help us to go through our experiences with less pain, nd also bring us clarity > as to how to use the circumstances to "OUR" benefit. "OUR" is meant > collectively, free of "I" amd "ME", free of "ahambhava", ..... > > Verily, verily, I say unto thee, NONE of us will enter into Vaikuntha until ALL > OF US ARE FULLY QUALIFIED! They that are qualified will be sent back to guide > and lead those that have fallen on the way! The shepherd will not take the flock > to the pen, till the 100th sheep is found and saved!.... Amen! > > Wendy wrote: > > In the "Garuda Puranam" chap.68, verse 17 it is stated by Sri Suta Goswami: > > "Pure, flawless gems have auspicious powers which can protect one from > demons, snakes, poisons, diseases, sinful reactions, and other dangers, > while flawed stones have the opposite affect." > > Again from the ancient "Agni Puranam" chap.246, slokas 7&8: > > " A gem free from all impurities and radiating it's characteristic internal > lustre should be looked upon as an escort of good luck; A gem which is > cracked, fissured, devoid of lustre, or appearing rough or sandy, should not > be used at all." > > Here we come to a very practical problem: > - how big must the gem be? > - how is its purity to be seen? > > What are the standards of lustre etc.? > > Only semi-precious gems form naturally lustrous crystals - like amethyst or > citronite. For the average person a natural diamond or ruby or saphiire looks > like a common pebble! Every river bed has stones of these colours. With a bit of > experience one can differentiate and say that one or the other is worth > investigating! But then the actual "lustre" is brought about by other processes: > cutting, polishing - and apparently heating. I don´t know how the last works, > but many say that heating ruins the esoteric properties! But the usual jeweller > has only such that have been treated fully, including heat, for he sells by > appearance. For about $200 one can buy a diamond, ruby or saphire from an > esoteric shop: the crystals are natural, apparently "flawless", but rarely show > "lustre", for the facets are not regular enough for perfect reflection of light. > Most of them look rather "Sandy" - Dear Sandy, please excuse me for the "pun", > no insult meant, but only a laugh since you have written on the subject! A > giggle now and then is good for the loaded heart! > > About 15 years ago I had the fortune of seeing the famous "Baroda Carpet" at the > Indian Exhibition in New York! It is actually more a tapestry, to be hung on > the wall, not for walking on. About 8 feet wide, 4 feet high, on the wall. The > entire fabric is covered by natural pearls, with floral(?) designs made of gems. > A very colourful decoration for the wall, BUT IT DOES NOT SPARKLE! The gems are > cut with very few facets and not very well polished: not "sellable" by modern > standards of jewellery except as antiques! > > So it is difficult to conform to the standards of the puranas! It is not just a > material matter, a moral question is involved, as Manoj implicates: the buying > of the gem may be just that - or mean a "sacrifice", an intention with a devoted > attitude! It may mean, "buy the best"! But by which standards of quality, lustre > etc. - puranic or modern? > > Prayer seems to be the best: It has never prevented misfortunes in my life, but > it has given me strength - and practical help - to bear them and to learn from > them! Particularly in the recent past I have had many minor disasters, but each > has brought positive experiences! We have to understand "life", not "fate"! > > > regards > Mani > > Ps > > "Many a gem of purest ray serene > the dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear > > ......... > > - Gray´s "Elegy" > > > > gjlist- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2001 Report Share Posted February 2, 2001 Hello! I wouldn't say Gemstones is completely bogus or totally ineffective. There is much to be said in the Vedas about them but for this dark day and age (Kali Yuga) where everyone heavily laden with Karma I would agree it's not exactly the prescribed best remedial method. I've heard it's only 1/8 remedial power for the other 7/8 one should rely on chanting & prayer etc. However,why can't you wear a gem to help strengthen your good karmas from an afflicted or weak planet. Maybe that's part of your Karma. Let's say I get an Astrology reading that says I might get shot(Mars lord of 1st in 8th or something). As a remedial I go out an buy a shotgun & protect myself and not get killed. Or I buy a Coral to strengthen the afflicted 1st lord Mars. That was in my Karma to change my own destiny or bad karma. I think it's the same way with gemstones. You can manipulate God's karmic energies slightly for the better but getting the remedial know how is also part of your Karma.That's the only explanation I can understand. Well guess it's open season on Manvantar. With Regards manvantara - <subra <gjlist> Friday, February 02, 2001 10:17 AM RE: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones/purity/ Baroda Carpet > Manoj Pathak wrote: > > Hi Sandy, > > ...........> > > > But as you say, you have been practising it for past 30 years, may I request > > you to be kind enough to just post one chart, where the gems or kavach > > changed the destiny of a single person. If that can happen, the entire Karma > > theory and theory of rebirth and reincarnation shall come crumbling down. > > Whatever Lord Krishna has said in Geeta, shall become zero and shall remain > > of no consequence. > > Dear Manoj, > > How can you expect what you demand? Even if wearing a gem or kavach "coincided" > with a clear turn of events, how can you be sure the talieman did the trick? You > don´t have the "control" of the same person NOT wearing the talisman to compare > with! If a wearer of a talisman experiments by putting it off for a period, > suffers, puts it on again and stops suffering etc. a few times in succession, we > could believe in the efficacy. > > As to the karma theory, I think it is NOT truly understood by most of us. I have > long ago given up the "tit for tat" and "consequence" theories: not only are > these ideas illogical philosophically if no memory of the past deed is > alive, but also many re-incarnation cases and "near death" studies do not > support these ideas. In my personal talks with people like Moody (US) and Kage > (Germany) who have been studying these things for years we came to the > conclusion that karma is a series of experiences only. The sequence is not > always "consequence", but connected serially in groups of experience like > "violence", "prosperity", "relationships" etc. where negative and positive one > another. > > It further seems that the "soul" in a body is only a fraction of its whole, > which I call the Mega-soul. Other fractions may be gathering experiences in > other bodies here or even on other worlds. A very interesting "discovery" was > that in sequential experiences it was NOT the same soul-fraction that incarnated > to go through the opposite experience!!! The experience is shared by all the > other fractions and each "fraction" can take a bit of rest, while another goes > out to explore. > > In most "near death" reports one hears of "waste", NOT "sin".It would seem that > apart from passively experiencing things, we are expected to contribute to > creation: to add to the architecture of "Vaikuntha", a place where God and the > Mega-souls can live together in peace. So if we do not use our given talents to > do - or strive to do - something positive, it becomes a "sin", a "waste". Read > the parable of the TALENTS in the New Testament! > > To revert to talismans: I don´t think they change "fate" or our "purpose" in > this incarnation. They may, however, help us by concentrating cosmic energy to > help us to go through our experiences with less pain, nd also bring us clarity > as to how to use the circumstances to "OUR" benefit. "OUR" is meant > collectively, free of "I" amd "ME", free of "ahambhava", ..... > > Verily, verily, I say unto thee, NONE of us will enter into Vaikuntha until ALL > OF US ARE FULLY QUALIFIED! They that are qualified will be sent back to guide > and lead those that have fallen on the way! The shepherd will not take the flock > to the pen, till the 100th sheep is found and saved!.... Amen! > > Wendy wrote: > > In the "Garuda Puranam" chap.68, verse 17 it is stated by Sri Suta Goswami: > > "Pure, flawless gems have auspicious powers which can protect one from > demons, snakes, poisons, diseases, sinful reactions, and other dangers, > while flawed stones have the opposite affect." > > Again from the ancient "Agni Puranam" chap.246, slokas 7&8: > > " A gem free from all impurities and radiating it's characteristic internal > lustre should be looked upon as an escort of good luck; A gem which is > cracked, fissured, devoid of lustre, or appearing rough or sandy, should not > be used at all." > > Here we come to a very practical problem: > - how big must the gem be? > - how is its purity to be seen? > > What are the standards of lustre etc.? > > Only semi-precious gems form naturally lustrous crystals - like amethyst or > citronite. For the average person a natural diamond or ruby or saphiire looks > like a common pebble! Every river bed has stones of these colours. With a bit of > experience one can differentiate and say that one or the other is worth > investigating! But then the actual "lustre" is brought about by other processes: > cutting, polishing - and apparently heating. I don´t know how the last works, > but many say that heating ruins the esoteric properties! But the usual jeweller > has only such that have been treated fully, including heat, for he sells by > appearance. For about $200 one can buy a diamond, ruby or saphire from an > esoteric shop: the crystals are natural, apparently "flawless", but rarely show > "lustre", for the facets are not regular enough for perfect reflection of light. > Most of them look rather "Sandy" - Dear Sandy, please excuse me for the "pun", > no insult meant, but only a laugh since you have written on the subject! A > giggle now and then is good for the loaded heart! > > About 15 years ago I had the fortune of seeing the famous "Baroda Carpet" at the > Indian Exhibition in New York! It is actually more a tapestry, to be hung on > the wall, not for walking on. About 8 feet wide, 4 feet high, on the wall. The > entire fabric is covered by natural pearls, with floral(?) designs made of gems. > A very colourful decoration for the wall, BUT IT DOES NOT SPARKLE! The gems are > cut with very few facets and not very well polished: not "sellable" by modern > standards of jewellery except as antiques! > > So it is difficult to conform to the standards of the puranas! It is not just a > material matter, a moral question is involved, as Manoj implicates: the buying > of the gem may be just that - or mean a "sacrifice", an intention with a devoted > attitude! It may mean, "buy the best"! But by which standards of quality, lustre > etc. - puranic or modern? > > Prayer seems to be the best: It has never prevented misfortunes in my life, but > it has given me strength - and practical help - to bear them and to learn from > them! Particularly in the recent past I have had many minor disasters, but each > has brought positive experiences! We have to understand "life", not "fate"! > > > regards > Mani > > Ps > > "Many a gem of purest ray serene > the dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear > > ......... > > - Gray´s "Elegy" > > > > gjlist- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2001 Report Share Posted February 3, 2001 My experience with gemstones agrees with this. I thought I'd try a Jupiter stone and it has made a difference. Not like night and day, but I can feel it. Since chanting the holy name of the Lord is the recommended sadhana for Kali-yuga, that's always the best remedy. But hey, we can use all the help we can get. Dasanudas http://www.consciousart.org/ | I wouldn't say Gemstones is completely bogus or totally ineffective. | There is much to be said in the Vedas about them but for this | dark day and age (Kali Yuga) where everyone heavily laden with Karma I would | agree it's not exactly the prescribed best remedial method. I've heard it's only 1/8 | remedial power for the other 7/8 one should rely on chanting & | prayer etc.| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2001 Report Share Posted February 3, 2001 I'm in Jupiter Bhukti & have started wearing a Yellow Sapphire myself. My Jupiter has a Ketu affliction & is in the less than great 2nd Maraka house. I have the mantras for all the gems if anyone needs them feel free to email me. I could the Mantra for the Nava Ratna if anyone has if please Email me. Thanks manvantara - "Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasanu> <gjlist> Saturday, February 03, 2001 4:43 AM RE: [gjlist] Re: Gemstones/purity/ Baroda Carpet > My experience with gemstones agrees with this. I thought I'd try a Jupiter > stone and it has made a difference. Not like night and day, but I can feel > it. Since chanting the holy name of the Lord is the recommended sadhana for > Kali-yuga, that's always the best remedy. But hey, we can use all the help > we can get. > > Dasanudas > http://www.consciousart.org/ > > | I wouldn't say Gemstones is completely bogus or totally ineffective. > | There is much to be said in the Vedas about them but for this > | dark day and age (Kali Yuga) where everyone heavily laden with Karma I > would > | agree it's not exactly the prescribed best remedial method. I've heard > it's only 1/8 > | remedial power for the other 7/8 one should rely on chanting & > | prayer etc.| > > > > gjlist- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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