such a pity

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy, I confess that 8 years of engineering school give me an empirical

bent when it comes to remedial measures,and what interests me most is what

practicing astrologer's have found actually helps their clients based on

client feedback and reported changes in consciousness and experience.Several

astrologer's whose work and integrity I respect have employed remedial

measures,including gems with good results with their clients.My own personal

experience with remedial measures( including gems) is somewhat limited,but

very positive.Regards, Dave

[Guest guest]

Dear gj-list friends,

The real pitiful condition that afflicts each of us is that we neglect our only

real interest in life, which is to return to the eternal spiritual realm of

Vaikuntha, Goloka, heaven, the abode of the Lord. This we neglect, favoring

"remedial measures" to make our stay in this temporary world more pleasing. This

mentality guarantees another birth.

The varieties of suffering we all experience in different ways and in different

degrees is also part and parcel of the Lord's plan. It is meant to be, it's

natural and is meant to inspire us to seek His shelter in His eternal realm. If

we understand this we can embrace the trials of life in a positive way.

Suffering is not there to punish us but to awaken us to a higher reality that

is available by spiritual cultivation. Trying to aviod it only means we havn't

gotten the message.

Why spend our time swimming upstream, endeavoring to "change our karma."

Better to surrender to the all perfect will of the Supreme, the One who ordains

our karmic debt and credit and try to please Him. This will produce the most

positive internal effect that is never dependant on relative happiness and

distress that is experienced only with our mind and senses. From the absolute

point of view any other endeavor is pitiful.

 

With regards to you all,

Sarva

 

 

Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

Namaskaar,

You wrote,

<It's such a pity that fun is made of an important aspect of jyotish. I

realize the need for some light-heartedness (at times) and I respect the

rights of others to express their (different) opinions. However, in light of

the fact that Parashara himself prescribed quite specific remedies for each

affliction, I think it's short-sighted (at best) to advocate "One cannot

change (or modify) one's karma".>

One's karma's can be modified always , but not the destiny, our birth again and

again are to change our style of working and to enlighten us.When enlightened we

turn in to doing devotional karma which leads us to salvation.Jyotish itself is

a great science which leads one's to understand his own self. To every opinion

there are different opinions and I think you should not mind . Discussion on

God, Karma and the ways to find the ultimate truth is called SATSANG (A Hindi

word which probably means talking for spiritual enlighment) and I will call it

internet SATSANG .

Gemstones gives inner strength (if you get a proper one and know exactly that

what is benefic to you), these are useful for those wanting material success ,

but that will not change the destiny , the change will come into his style of

working , his thought, his present and future actions may change.

Same is true for submission to God, prayers ,submission enlighten one's soul ,

an enlightened soul will do devotional karam . Devotional works leads to

salvation. Total surrender is not possible for an ordinary person. Arjuna was

destined to do all what he did after the teachings of Krishna, even if Krishna

had not taught Arjuna the ,actions , karma of Arjuna would have been the same.

Only the after results change. An enlightened Arjuna was not a sinner for the

killings, but an involved Arjuna (without the teaching of Krishna)would have

been.

WE donate for the malefics , fasting is also recommended, in that way we accept

the harm a malefic star can do to us and we do it ourselve. So the suffering is

redused.

I do myself recommend the remeddial measures , but my thought behind this is as

above.

The immediate duty of an Astrologer towards his consultant is to give him mental

stregth and these measures give them mental reliefand strengthen , and how and

what they change exactly i had explained above.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste~

 

regarding this statement by wendy:

 

"Paramahansa Yogananda's Guru, the great Jnanavatar (incarnation of wisdom)

Sri Yukteswar, himself a proficient astrologer, prescribed remedial gems"

 

yogananda's book [autobiography of a yogi] suggests that it was not the

gems, yet actually Sri Yukteswar's Grace of Healing [power]...and He was

simply being humble about His healing abilities...

 

nevertheless, gems, rocks & stones are have their part to play as well...

 

much peace~

muni

 

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

gjlist, sarva@u... wrote:

> Dear gj-list friends,

> The real pitiful condition that afflicts each of us is that we

>neglect our only real interest in life, which is to return to the

>eternal spiritual realm of Vaikuntha, Goloka, heaven, the abode of

>the

>Lord. This we neglect, favoring "remedial measures" to make our stay

>in this temporary world more pleasing. This mentality guarantees

>another birth.

 

 

thank you Sarva for such a clear exposition of what i have been trying

to say too, although in a slightly different way....instead of buying

expensive gems to please Sani, we should give service to the lowly, or

develop some Divine Love and Compassion towards our brothers and

sisters....if we buy hugely expensive Blue Sapphire rings to

strengthen Sani and then go on and kick the beggar as we leave the

temple....well Sani will see that we haven't really got the point, and

that sapphire will prove to be a curse rather than a blessing...

 

as you say, Sani's purpose is to remind us that this is NOT our

home...we are here in school, playing hooky most of the

time....pursuing non-vedic practices....and hoping that somehow our

lack of ability in pronouncing sanskrit in those pujas we'd love to do

if only we had time and inclination, is ok......we're hoping that all

this will be offset by the expenditure of huge sums of money on a

modified piece of sapphire which has almost always been heat treated

as the previous gemologist testified....so we're paying huge amounts

for something that LOOKS good, but doesn't fulfill the Vedic

qualifications....and will this do us harm or ill?

 

Doesn't it seem so much simpler just to remember who we really are,

and throw ourselves unutterably, humbly, onto the Lotus Feet of the

Divine, beseeching refuge, and washing the Beloved Feet with the tears

of our Longing....five minutes of that would be worth the entire

fortune you just spent on that fancy killer bauble...the "Blue

sapphire"...my Amma says that five minutes of crying to the Lord with

a longing heart, with all the devotion and love that we are made of,

just five minutes of this will bring at least as much benefit as an

HOUR of meditation....what to speak trying to do an end run on Sani by

buying Her off with a pretty bauble!!!!while kicking the beggar and

abusing our mother!wife!children!

 

That beloved Mahatma Bhagavan Sri Ramakrsna used to speak in a

similar vein, dear friends, in advising us to seek the Divine first

and the world we could let take care of itself...Christ advised the

same things as i recall...."Seek ye first the kingdom of Heaven and

all shall be added unto you" (my lame paraphrase of that Great Soul).

But no, we continue on in our arrogant fashion believing that it's ok

that we don't bother to learn pujas, or to surrender to the Lord, Or

the Divine Mother, however we see them....we think it's fine to be our

egoistic selves, and resent any implications that we can't always have

it our way....Thus Sani (Saturn's) NECESSARY lessons to disabuse us of

this pernicious delusion...that we are in charge....

 

Sani says:

"Oh Yeah? Try a little of this...." and suddenly life loses all its

savour due to a major illness...or a death...or... or... or just our

attitude sucks....it is always an invitation to us....these

"disasters" are actually engraved invitations from Divine Mother to

come to tea...and if we don't accept them, She will have to find other

more "drastic" ways to see that we DO attend that tea....willy, nilly.

thus to me the best practices involve trying to get ever closer to

Divine Mother, to see what She is needing from this child to be done,

and to do it, before She wacks his little bum with his own

self-importance....Thus to me remedial measures will not really

include gems, although i have worn them in their less expensive forms

such as lapis lazuli and amethyst, crystal, and jade, more just to

remind me of those energies, those Grahas, my friends, and how to get

closer with them...to vibrate with them...

 

As Sani is both Lagnesha, and Atmakaraka, as well as appearing nicely

in the Ninth in Virgo, and indicative also of my Guru, Who has Her

Lagna and Sani in Libra (my 10th wherein my Venus, my Ishta Devi is

located...a connection or what?), i find it relatively easy to

identify with that Saturnian energy, and speaking from that

perspective (and from Sri Vimalanandaji's statements in Robert

Svoboda's Aghori books), i think that Poor Saturn is probably weeping

sometimes from the pain of being misunderstood, loathed, feared and

hated....in reality i see Her as my Beloved Mother Kali...Who

blissfully dances in the Smashan of life....the most compassionate,

and heartsoftened Devi of them all, to Her devotees...She Who lovingly

snips off all their karmas, and ties them into a girdle around her

waist, and then slices off those nasty old egos of hate, lust, fear,

and so on....and wears them as Her necklace....notice they are all

smiling!!!!smiling at their liberation from the old delusions......She

has a noose and a goad too...The goad is to remind us of our

shortcomings and to goad us further on the spiritual path, and the

noose is if we are REALLY naughty and won't listen to our loving

Mother....So then She has to Noose us and take us lovingly home to

Her...whether we like it or not...maybe even kicking and

screaming..."nooooo!!!i liked that story!!!!i was having

fun!!!!noooooo i don't wanna go to bed!!!! it's tooooo

early!!!!!"......and so on.

 

So the best remedy to me is to love the Grahas, and see them as the

Servants, although Devas themselves, of the Most High....they are but

executing the will of the Divine Mother....and our best bet would be

to accept our karmas as they come, and try to make a clean breast of

it all this time, such that we don't have to go thru all this pain

again....

 

Kali Mahesvari Parvati Sankari!!!

Saranam, Saranam, Saranam Amma!!!

Saranam, Saranam, Sarnam Amma!!

Saranam, Saranam, Saranam Amma!!

Dukha Vinasini Durga Jaya Jaya!!

Kala Vinasini Kali Jaya Jaya!!

Uma Rama Bramani Jaya Jaya!!

Radha Rukhmini Sita Jaya Jaya!!

 

As others so eloquently have said here...the best remedy for all the

ills of this life is to take the Names of the Lord....to sing and

think of the Divine alone, to fall in Love with and to have a personal

relationship with the Divine in whatever form we Love Her.......That

alone is the sovereign remedy...all others are but props, and

"shortcuts" and mainly exist to make the gem dealers rich....although

if you want to wear a blue sapphire go ahead......it's your money!!

and hopefully it shouldn't have been saved for your funeral, which the

sapphire might be the author of............

the quake victims would probably need it more than your finger.......

and it would do you more good..........

 

God Alone!!!

 

In the Divine Mother's Love,

and in Her Service,

this littlest child

of Hers,

bows, most humbly,

again and again,

saluting his sisters,

and brothers

on this Divine Jyotish List!!!

And Who are all

verily

the Embodiments of the

Sacred Om Itself!!!

 

as ever,

Your Own Self,

 

visvanathan

 

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!!!

[Guest guest]

Hello friends,

 

I would abstain from commenting on : Should we or Should we not ? as I have,

I think, made myself amply clear on this.

 

I am narrating here a legendry mythological folklore associated with Shani

(Saturn).

 

Saturn was doing penance and was interested in doing rigid "Tapasya" when he

was directed to marry. Even after marriage, Saturn kept on with his Tapasya

and forgot to fulfill the household responsibilities, the duties of a

"Grihast Ashram". When he returned after his Tapasya, his wife cursed him

and said, your sight would henceforth create destruction.

 

To this Saturn replied, "Devi, I can understand your anguish. But I was

fulfilling what was desired of me by my Ishta, Lord Krishna". Therefore,

those of us, who feel tormented by Saturn, should offer prayers to Lord

Krishna as remedial measure.

 

with best wishes to all.

 

Nilanjan-Samabhasam, Ravi-putram yama-grajam

Chhaya-martand sambhootam, tam namami shanais-charam.

 

Manoj

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

from me and my computer in fever..

 

On this interesting issue, I am wondering if the colours have some effects:

would it be inauspicious if one, with Saturn afflicting the As. Lord,wear

Saturnian colours, or those related to more auspicious ones..

in some text I found prescriptions for not wearing diamonds, emeralds...with

pearls.. those nor being moon's fiends.However, I am wondering if this rule

applies only when the stone is touching the skin, or is it irrelevant? I'd

appreciate your response.

 

: re:Venus in libra in 12, diamonds are strictly forbidden. Is the strength of

the house bigger than one of the planet?

 

I wear pearls- to strengthen my debilitated Moon in Scorpio, Lagna Lord,

afflicted by Saturn as well. I am confused right now- whether it's an

appropriate remedy, or not?

 

In fact, I am, perhaps wrongly "transferring" the knowledge of psychotherapy,

one, I would say "common sense"

approach, which in short says: don't dwell upon your weakness'- you'll just get

more of it. Rather- support what is already strong, until that strength "win the

battle"- resolving indirectly the major problem. I've seen it works..

Is this analogy correct, from your perspective? Wouldn't it be better to make

stroger already strong planet- or is that dasha (moon's) which prevails here..

?

Anna

-

Wendy Vasicek

Gjlist (AT) (DOT) Com

Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:46 PM

[gjlist] Such a Pity

 

 

Dear Members

It's such a pity that fun is made of an important aspect of jyotish. I

realize the need for some light-heartedness (at times) and I respect the

rights of others to express their (different) opinions. However, in light of

the fact that Parashara himself prescribed quite specific remedies for each

affliction, I think it's short-sighted (at best) to advocate "One cannot

change (or modify) one's karma".

 

Parashara states:

"The person born at the Sankranti (entry of the Sun in a new sign) is poor

and unhappy, but he becomes well-to-do and happy if remedial measures are

undertaken"

 

So it's evident that Parashara himself believed it possible to relieve the

suffering of Men by performing remedial measures.

 

Why were Gems not mentioned in Parashara...I don't know the answer to

that...perhaps that was part of his teachings that have been lost to us? I

do know however that many great sages/saints have advocated the use of

remedial gems. Paramahansa Yogananda's Guru, the great Jnanavatar

(incarnation of wisdom) Sri Yukteswar, himself a proficient astrologer,

prescribed remedial gems. There is a long history of their use by the wisest

of the wise going back thousands of years...one has to respect that at

least!

 

Unfortunately, in this greedy world we live in today, most gems have been so

overpriced that the average person cannot afford them...and then there's the

issue of where to find jyotish quality gems...it all takes a great deal of

effort, not an "easy fix" at all as some would advocate.

 

For many "Westerners" the performance of the correct prayers and rituals

becomes a daunting task...where are the priests to instruct them in the

performance of Puja? Then there's the question of (correct) pronunciation of

the mantras, etc...

 

If a person is ill he goes to a doctor, who prescribes him some medicine

(remedy), sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Gems, I believe, are

nature's greatest remedies...with no adverse side affects.

 

Regards

Wendy

 

 

gjlist-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Anna,

 

At 03:44 AM 2/11/01 -0500, you wrote:

 

>I wear pearls- to strengthen my debilitated Moon in Scorpio, Lagna Lord,

>afflicted by Saturn as well. I am confused right now- whether it's an

>appropriate remedy, or not?

 

Your Moon might be in Scorpio, yet its occupation of the 5th, and receiving

aspects from a powerful 9th lord Jupiter from the 9th, creates a

Raja-yoga. 7th lord Saturn further strengthens the yoga, not weakens

it. Lets just say that Jupiter has a firm sway over your whole chart, and

thus you may not need to wear Pearls to strengthen your Moon. Instead, put

on a Yellow Sapphire, or other less expensive yellow gems for Jupiter

(Topaz, Yellow beryl, Citrine, etc.) to stipulate and balance the energies

of Jupiter.

 

BTW, this is why your Saturn periods have always been felt as positive for

you (I think you alluded to that in one email). If a sub-period of Saturn

is operative, what you get (and this applies to periods of all the planets)

is primarily the effects of the planet giving the strongest aspect to

it. Thus, Saturn periods will feel like Jupiter periods, and Jupiter

periods will feel like Saturn periods, due to their mutual aspects with

each other.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk