Twinsisters

[Guest guest]

Hello Jeff and Ilona,

 

If I wasn't so intrinsically lazy I'd investigate the divisional charts with

greater enthusiasm. But just looking at the natal charts once again...not

using the outers etc, as I (personally) don't use them in judging a

horoscope...I am still much of the same mind as my first instinctual

assessment (Twin 2. was the one abused).

 

I cannot escape the significance of the exchange between 1/12 lords...12th

house = bed pleasures (sinful acts, etc)...1st house = self, PHYSICAL BODY,

start in life, etc.

 

My judgement is still that it was the 2nd twin that was abused and that she

has suppressed the true memory and transferred the trauma from herself to

her sister...easier to deal with that way.

 

Mercury (planet of the intellect) in 12th house can indicate that one's

perception of reality may be hidden.

 

This is my judgement, I'd be interested to hear others.

 

Regards

Wendy

 

 

Jeff wrote

==========

 

This is in regard to twin no. 1. What I saw at first glance was that the

lord of the 9th (father) was debilitated in the 12th in Cancer with

Venus. The fact that the lord of the 9th is debilitated and in the 12th

tells us something about the father. When Venus or Mars aspect each other

or are conjunct (which is even stronger) intense passion and sexual

energy are released especially in such a sexually charge house as the

12th. The 12th house is the father's property and if he was as perverse

as some of these indications would reveal, then perhaps he looked on Twin

no 1 as his property. Cancer also is a karaka of family which would tend

to suggest abuse within the family. The abuse took place during Moon

Mahadasha when these 12 house karmas came to fruition. I concur with

Wendy's assessment of twin no. 2, but my feeling is that twin 1 was the

one physically abused with twin 2 as a witness of such sad events,

obviously a victim of sexual abuse as well. Namaste, Jeff

 

 

gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy, Alex and Jeff,

 

you are wonderful! Just these discussions my collegues and me too had for

the last time. And you gave us some interesting new thoughts!

Before I`ll send you the answer, I would like to wait one other day until

there might be some more mails.

 

But here are the dates of the twin`s mother: aug 25 1936 about 8.00 AM in

the same town. No summertime, zone 1

 

I often asked me, if a mother woud not get notice of her husbands behavior

and that of her children. In this case, the mother was not at good health.

She had to endure several surgical interventations.

Before the twin`s birth she had several (4 or 5) miscarriges and then she

got a girl, that died 2 days after birth on sep 17 1963. It was a 7 or 8

month prematurebirth and the child had been "simply forgotten to care for"

in the hospital. One year later the twins were born.

 

Today the mother undergoes some kind of loss of memory ( once she did not

recognize her husband).

 

The father was born on may 16. 1934, same town, time unknown.

He suffers from morbus Bechterew ( spondylitis ankylopoetica) that is a

tubercular desease!

 

I recently asked the parents, who now also are under homeopathic treatment

( and who do not know that I was informed about the abuse), how they could

tell their twins apart. The father immediateley answered, that one daughter

had a birthmole...

 

Thanks a lot! I`ll tell you the rest tomorrow, Ilona

[Guest guest]

HellmannC200 wrote:

> Dear Wendy, Alex and Jeff,

>

> you are wonderful! Just these discussions my collegues and me too had for

> the last time. And you gave us some interesting new thoughts!

> Before I`ll send you the answer, I would like to wait one other day until

> there might be some more mails.

 

 

Dear Hellmann,

 

This discussion is very interesting and I am storing the mails for study when I

have more time. So far I have only read diagonally to see if the letters were

worth keeping!

 

The "abuse" was - according to you/the person´s report - between 3 and 5 years

of age. This could have been rape, but I rather doubt this: the results of

actual coitus with a child of that age would more likely have led to actual

physical damage and needed medical treatment.

 

it is more likely - VERY MUCH IMHO - that the child was compelled to give oral

sex á la Monica. This is not just my theory but based on an actual case.

 

Some 4 years ago I met a young woman at a bible study meeting. She begged me to

do her horoscope. I am not a professional astrologer, do not take money, but

give readings within my limited capacity, always saying that my reading need not

be the "last word"! Actually I read better after two pegs of redeye!

 

My way of reading a chart is weird: western sidereal, with jyothish mixed in -

or mixed up!

 

I said she would be faced with a tremendous emotional conflict within the next

few months; it could be concerning her father and siblings, the mother too to

alesser extent. I advised her to pray regularly for strength to bear the trial.

Her immediate problem, a love affair, was of no import, would pass soon into

oblivion.

 

She left me rather unsatisfied: maoinly concerned with her boy-friend, my saying

it would not last did not please her!

 

Two months later she started getting vivid dreams, which became more and more

"real" and brought back memories which she had suppressed! The dreams showed

that she had been sexually abused by her father. She came to me again. I had to

play psychologist. Told her to verify before jumping to conclusions. She did so

and found that her sister and brother had also been so misused: coerced with

goodies to give oral satisfaction to the father and his friends too! It was done

so cleverly that the child loved the father and was ready to satisfy him, to get

the goodies! No violence was in play, it was all done with gentleness and show

of love!

 

What hurt her was that the father she had always loved was a "swine"! - By

normal standards! Had sex between father and daughter been "accepted" she might

not have suffered at all. She also suffered from the thought that she had not

only satisfied her father, but also his friends: she felt that she had been a

"whore"!

 

A pederast once told us in total confidence at a political meeting about his

feelings: the sex desire was mixed with tenderness! He wanted to love a child,

but was blind to the fact that the child was not ready for sex!

 

This is the reverse of "Lolita": Lolita seduced the man, whereas here the man

"seduces" the child.

 

It is PERHAPS not always possible to find "violent depravity" in such charts.

 

The abuse of children is a human problem, not just moral. The child is led to do

things it is not meant or ready for, it is robbed of its childhood. But if this

happens out of the "love" ??? of the perpetrator, how does his chart reflect

this? A great deal of the Kamasutra deals with how to seduce immorally! So it is

an age-old problem! No matter how one reads the texts, the Pandavas were born

out of pederasty committed by the Gods!

 

i would be very grateful for a final answer regarding the twins: who suffered

directly, who as a witness.

 

regards

Mani

[Guest guest]

Om Krishnaaya Namah

 

Hi All,

 

My guess on this is that it was the first twin who was physically abused.

The way I see it, the Lord of the ninth of the father is literally "fallen"

in the twelfth house of bed pleasures and is conjunct the karaka for bed

pleasures Venus. If we go deeper into the woods we see that the Arudha of

the ninth is in the twelfth containing a debilitated Mars, Venus and our

friend Gulika. Signs of perverted father.

 

In the Navamsha for twin one, we see that there is a major malefic

combination in the twelfth in Scorpio. Also, while the ninth Lord doesn't

seem to be doing much, if we take the navamsha ninth as the Lagna, we see

the Lagna Lord go into the eighth while conjoining the twelfth Lord.

 

In the chart of twin two, while there is parivartana between the first and

twelfth Lords, I think this perhaps poinjts more to the psychological and

emotional problems the native may suffer, esp. with regards to confidence

etc. It may make the person much more of a loner (I should know!) and more

introverted. Also the fact that Mercury's affliction only becomes heavily

noticeable when take Nakshatras into consideration supports this, as the

Nakshatras are ruled by the Moon overall, and the Moon shows more the mental

and emotional implications. Also, a Mulatrikona Moon conjunct Jupiter

(Gajakesari Yoga) in the ninth doesn't seem to make sense to me (then again,

if we take he tenth as the house of father the story changes...).

 

So, I think it's Twin one who was physically abused, and twin two who was

emotionally abused.

 

'Course I'm probably wrong!

 

Pursottam

[Guest guest]

> I found one of a man, not hearing evil, but angel-voices.

 

I found it interesting that GJ for Mac (has Houck terts & Ashtaka Varga

[Digital astrology by Houck] by the way) has these readings for the

angel-hearing man :-)

 

/PISIN10/KETUIN10/

Ketu in this position produces a kind of mysterious halo around you in

regards to actions, life, and final end. Everything about you are unusual;

/LEOIN4/SUNIN4/

You may establish a link with the very essence of existence, and

consequently your capabilities for spiritual knowledge are greatly

increased. Your consciousness is almost identified with the universal

consciousness, and a ray of divinity sparkles through your behavior and

disposition.Š

/CANIN4/MERCIN4/

Mercury creates several problems in life and you may be required to

establish a bridge between the realities of life and your visionary ideals.

/VIRIN5/RAHUIN5/

ŠYour vision of eternity and the futility of everyday existence will direct

you to indulge in sensual gratification without any remorse and with

philosophical justification.

 

David P. Meyer

Fairport, NY 14450 (near Rochester, NY)

USA

dmeyer1

using Goravani 2.26 on a Mac G3

[Guest guest]

> I found one of a man, not hearing evil, but angel-voices.

 

Sorry about those readings. They only work if longitude is WEST!!! Big error

on my part. Nothing so angelic really :-)

 

"We have met the enemy

and he is us"

--Pogo

 

David P. Meyer

Fairport, NY 14450 (near Rochester, NY)

USA

dmeyer1

using Goravani 2.26 on a Mac G3

[Guest guest]

Hello Ilona,

 

Just a quick peek at the mothers chart reveals the harm to children and from

whence it came. The great malefic Mars is aspecting both the 5th house of

children and the 5th lord (Saturn). It is said that a benefic in it's fallen

sign is weakened and loses it's ability to benefit the houses it occupies or

aspects...a malefic, on the other hand, becomes more malefic, more harmful

to the houses it occupies or aspects.

 

Mars is dispositor of 7th lord Jupiter (7th lord represents

spouse...children's father) So Mars will act on behalf of 7th lord (so to

speak).

 

Mars' moolatrikona (strongest) sign is Aries, which rules the 8th house. The

8th governs such things as sexual strength, sexual disease, sexual

abnormalities, etc...

 

So we see in this woman's chart that her children can be harmed by Mars and

we can also see the type of harm that may come their way...also note Mars

dispositor Moon conjunct Jupiter (significator of children and lord of 7th

house [father])

 

The 8th is also the house of death, so the aspect from Mars can also bring

the early or premature death of a child.

 

Best Regards

Wendy

 

 

Jeff wrote

==========

I don't feel confident enough to do a rectification of the fathers

chart,but in the mothers chart we have the ASC lord strong in the

ascendant, but with little support from his friends. Venus is in Leo with

the Sun in the 12th and Saturn in the 6th in his own sign (a good

placement for a malefic in an upachaya house). Still both Venus and

Saturn are in Dusthana houses (grief producing houses). The moon

(mind/manas) is debilitated in the third with Jupiter in Scorpio. Rahu is

in the fourth (mother,family, emotions) the most sensitive house in the

horoscope. This placement could be beneficial for marriage if the lord of

the seventh were well placed, but Jupiter is conjunct a debilitated moon

and debilitated in the 12th in the Navamsha. Also Jupiter owns two angles

which according to Sage Parashara diminishes his ability to good. Also

benefics in the third tend to make the person timid or cowardly which

might explain why the mother did not intervene on behalf of the twins. It

could be argued that she did not know, but this is seldom the case. Mars

is debilitated in Cancer in the 11th house of desires. This combined with

the bad placement of Venus has got to harm the sexuality of the

individual to some degree. The karaka of father with Venus in the 12th

and the aspect of debilitated Mars to the 2nd house (early childhood)

certainly lend to the possibility of her own sexual abuse as a child.

It's all to common for people to pick partners like their opposite sex

parent and for her to marry a child molester would not be out of

character. Also, looking at the Moon chart, Mars is debilitated in the

9th(father) and Sun is with Venus in the 10th. Rahu in the 4th harms

motherhood as does Moon in Scorpio. She does have a waxing moon, 50% full

which helps her cope in normal life as does 5th house Saturn in the 6th

in its own sign. Nevertheless, the chart is incredibly challenged and the

mind and sexuality are disturbed. Mercury who is in his sign of

exaltation has no aspects and his friends Venus and Saturn are of little

help. Namaste, Jeff

 

 

gjlist-

 

 

 

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