Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 manvantara wrote: > > Hello! > Mani > Meat eating under extraneous circumstances is justifiable. In this dark > iron age of Kali every one is addicted to a few bad habits. I don't care who > you are I could probably fine one indiscretion. Even President Clinton > smoked a joint once. What to speak of the common man. This is merely a > symptom of the age we live in & I won't hold it against you. > With Regards > manvantara Dear Manvantara, Thanks for your understang words. But may I say this: My letters were meant for a different purpose: to evoke respect for plants, NOT to defend or recommend meat-eating! They have been misunderstood but provoked much interesting and useful discussion. The reproofs were also welcome, for they came from friends. I might have given some new ideas to think about, but have given all an opportunity to think and strengthen their own convictions. I do not feel guilty for the tiny amounts of meat I consume. In any case I do not have apologize to any human being for it: my apologies are due to the animal and to God! My objection is only against fallacies. Some have said, "Go to a slaughterhouse and you will not eat meat anymore!" Is this true? Some may stop, others will be put off for a time till memory fades, others will not be affected. There is a terrible farm here in Germany, which claims to be a great modern farm, invites people to come and admire its methods. The place is designed as a fun-fair park for kids, a place for a day´s outing for the family. The animals are reared under terrible conditions. The visit is a one-way tour, you cannot run away once you enter the queue! After seeing it I just felt sick. We were thirsty and went to the restaurant. It was crowded with people eating meat with pleasure, most had huge bags filled with meat bought at wholesale price from the farm´s own butchery. We couldn´t anything at all! All during the history Man has been eating meat. Till even a 100 years ago most people did the killing themselves in their own yards. The sight of blood does not put an end to meat-eating. If you are used to seeing blood from childhood it does not affect you. Doctors and people working in hospitals get used to seeing blood - and still eat meat. One becomes a vegetarian only by being in a vegetarian family or through inner conviction. And sometimes by seeing slaughter. Actually the majority of people in the world do not live on meat alone, the major portion of the meal is vegetarian. During my visits to the US I was amazed by the HUGE portions of meat served and consumed in restaurants. Germans eat proportionately more meat than in othar countries, but nowhere near what the American does! One American serving will be enough for 4 meals for me. This applies to the salad and vegetables too: everything in America is huge in quantity! Many who plead for vegetarianism wear leather shoes, watch bands, jackets, carry leather cases and bags. Even hindu gurus sit on deer or other skins and hides! Where does the leather come from? From naturally demised animals? It is as rare to find an animal corpse in nature as to win the lotto! And on a farm, the skin of an animal that dies of old age would be hardly good leather. The rule seems to be: "You shall not slaughter to eat the meat but may do so to cover your feet, or use the skin as mantle or seat, in sake of comfort and conceit!" To sin is human. The real sin is in being blind to the sin(s), not thinking holistically and objectively, not thinking till it hurts but stopping when it suits and satisfies your pre-conceived ideas. Scriptures are quoted, mythology and proverbs cited. But does anyone try to see the whole and not the part? "The early bird gets the worm!" Fine. But how about the early worm? it gets eaten up! The Lord tested Abraham and told him tro sacrifice his son. So he took his son unprotestingly to kill him, did not even tell him about his intentions. How could he? The obedience to God was registered, but was it right? Emperor Babar was perhaps the strongest and healthiest man in the country. He was relatively young when his son Humayun fell ill, was dying and death was expected in a matter of minutes. Babar prayed and said aloud (it has been recorded) : Lord, I accept your will, but if you can, spare my son´s life and take mine instead!" He then laid himself down. From that moment he became ill, sicker and sicker, died a few days later. The son recovered and lived! Could not Abraham have offered God his own life? I would, if tested thus. Someone wrote that she likes my "musings". This word is right: I do not preach but think aloud. If I were a member of an intellectual, spiritual club I´d "discuss" with others. So I write here on the list, not to convince but to elicit thoughts, to find confirmation for my ideas or new arguments to revise them. This is a forum, not a parliament. No notion has to become a motion to be accepted by all as binding! Majority opinion need not be right and all that counts is what one decides for himself: the advantage is that one hears all the arguments before deciding. Re. Kaliyuga: IMHO!: Souls in kali yuga will not re-incarnate after the yuga is over, but will go to a higher level. It is said that one will reap the benefits of one´s actions in the same life in this yuga. This is true: we do get back the rewards in this life, if we open our eyes! The punishment is also there: the conscience punishes you every night! Re-birth is only for learning more experiences and finishing off what has been broken off in this life. We must approach death without fear of punishment in the next life, but as a promotion to a higher class in the same school if re-born on this earth. The idea of this being a "bad" yuga is false. In the first class at school there is much time for fun and play, but as you get highrer up you have to slog more. Kali yuga is the highest class! The tasks are the hardest. You may get frustrated when all the good you do gets lost. But that is necassary. Every bridge you build will be destroyed: so that the next generation of souls can learn to build a new bridge! After playing solitaire do you paste the cards permanently? You have to re-shuffle to be able to play again - if not you, then someone else! Kali presents us with enormous challenges. We cannot change the conditions much, but should realize that change is necessary, think of how to change and try to effect them. This knowledge is all that counts, not our actual achievements. The knowledge is our treasure in the next birth, here or elsewhere. Our deeds are deeds on earth, but our thoughts are the deeds in the next life! regards Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 Thanks Mani for sharing these thoughts. Not many people nowadays use and enjoy advantage of being capable of thinking, that we are blessed with, like you do. Most, in fact, spend (or would rather, if they could)their life with couple of "ready to use" concepts- to structure and simplify life. What a waste! Anna Dear Manvantara, Thanks for your understang words. But may I say this: My letters were meant for a different purpose: to evoke respect for plants, NOT to defend or recommend meat-eating! They have been misunderstood but provoked much interesting and useful discussion. The reproofs were also welcome, for they came from friends. I might have given some new ideas to think about, but have given all an opportunity to think and strengthen their own convictions. I do not feel guilty for the tiny amounts of meat I consume. In any case I do not have apologize to any human being for it: my apologies are due to the animal and to God! My objection is only against fallacies. Some have said, "Go to a slaughterhouse and you will not eat meat anymore!" Is this true? Some may stop, others will be put off for a time till memory fades, others will not be affected. There is a terrible farm here in Germany, which claims to be a great modern farm, invites people to come and admire its methods. The place is designed as a fun-fair park for kids, a place for a day´s outing for the family. The animals are reared under terrible conditions. The visit is a one-way tour, you cannot run away once you enter the queue! After seeing it I just felt sick. We were thirsty and went to the restaurant. It was crowded with people eating meat with pleasure, most had huge bags filled with meat bought at wholesale price from the farm´s own butchery. We couldn´t anything at all! All during the history Man has been eating meat. Till even a 100 years ago most people did the killing themselves in their own yards. The sight of blood does not put an end to meat-eating. If you are used to seeing blood from childhood it does not affect you. Doctors and people working in hospitals get used to seeing blood - and still eat meat. One becomes a vegetarian only by being in a vegetarian family or through inner conviction. And sometimes by seeing slaughter. Actually the majority of people in the world do not live on meat alone, the major portion of the meal is vegetarian. During my visits to the US I was amazed by the HUGE portions of meat served and consumed in restaurants. Germans eat proportionately more meat than in othar countries, but nowhere near what the American does! One American serving will be enough for 4 meals for me. This applies to the salad and vegetables too: everything in America is huge in quantity! Many who plead for vegetarianism wear leather shoes, watch bands, jackets, carry leather cases and bags. Even hindu gurus sit on deer or other skins and hides! Where does the leather come from? From naturally demised animals? It is as rare to find an animal corpse in nature as to win the lotto! And on a farm, the skin of an animal that dies of old age would be hardly good leather. The rule seems to be: "You shall not slaughter to eat the meat but may do so to cover your feet, or use the skin as mantle or seat, in sake of comfort and conceit!" To sin is human. The real sin is in being blind to the sin(s), not thinking holistically and objectively, not thinking till it hurts but stopping when it suits and satisfies your pre-conceived ideas. Scriptures are quoted, mythology and proverbs cited. But does anyone try to see the whole and not the part? "The early bird gets the worm!" Fine. But how about the early worm? it gets eaten up! The Lord tested Abraham and told him tro sacrifice his son. So he took his son unprotestingly to kill him, did not even tell him about his intentions. How could he? The obedience to God was registered, but was it right? Emperor Babar was perhaps the strongest and healthiest man in the country. He was relatively young when his son Humayun fell ill, was dying and death was expected in a matter of minutes. Babar prayed and said aloud (it has been recorded) : Lord, I accept your will, but if you can, spare my son´s life and take mine instead!" He then laid himself down. From that moment he became ill, sicker and sicker, died a few days later. The son recovered and lived! Could not Abraham have offered God his own life? I would, if tested thus. Someone wrote that she likes my "musings". This word is right: I do not preach but think aloud. If I were a member of an intellectual, spiritual club I´d "discuss" with others. So I write here on the list, not to convince but to elicit thoughts, to find confirmation for my ideas or new arguments to revise them. This is a forum, not a parliament. No notion has to become a motion to be accepted by all as binding! Majority opinion need not be right and all that counts is what one decides for himself: the advantage is that one hears all the arguments before deciding. Re. Kaliyuga: IMHO!: Souls in kali yuga will not re-incarnate after the yuga is over, but will go to a higher level. It is said that one will reap the benefits of one´s actions in the same life in this yuga. This is true: we do get back the rewards in this life, if we open our eyes! The punishment is also there: the conscience punishes you every night! Re-birth is only for learning more experiences and finishing off what has been broken off in this life. We must approach death without fear of punishment in the next life, but as a promotion to a higher class in the same school if re-born on this earth. The idea of this being a "bad" yuga is false. In the first class at school there is much time for fun and play, but as you get highrer up you have to slog more. Kali yuga is the highest class! The tasks are the hardest. You may get frustrated when all the good you do gets lost. But that is necassary. Every bridge you build will be destroyed: so that the next generation of souls can learn to build a new bridge! After playing solitaire do you paste the cards permanently? You have to re-shuffle to be able to play again - if not you, then someone else! Kali presents us with enormous challenges. We cannot change the conditions much, but should realize that change is necessary, think of how to change and try to effect them. This knowledge is all that counts, not our actual achievements. The knowledge is our treasure in the next birth, here or elsewhere. Our deeds are deeds on earth, but our thoughts are the deeds in the next life! regards Mani gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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