Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Namaste, Both were possessed. Gogh's is shown by Rahu in the ascendant in Gemini, which is the sign of thinking, with aspect of Saturn and Mars. Insanity was during debilitated Moon cycle in 6th showing the emotional turmoil, and cycle of Rahu in Gemini afflicting Mercury, the karaka of intelligence. Moon forms shakata yoga from Jupiter, showing the emotional turmoil, and infliction of death, as they are the 2 marakas. In Trimsamsa showing illness and misfortune, Moon is again in Scorpio, and in 6/8 position form Rahu/Jupiter/Ketu/Mercury. Warm Regards, Alex J gjlist, "natabara" <natabara@n...> wrote: > Dear Ann and Anna and members of this list. > > Ann > > <<Unfair in the extreme, but I will throw my hat in the ring and declare > Van Gogh so sad&bad he sent himself mad, and poor old Nietzche, just plain > sad!!. Having said that, I ought to look at their charts!.>> > > Thank you very much for your reply. I know that your reply is very general but very helpful to give us an idea of their state of mind. No many experts can give a simple explanation to people without medical knowledge. In this list, most of us do not have a medical training and that is why i asked you for your perspective which is very welcome. Lets analize the charts hoping to find some astrological clues which can help other astrologers to assess the mental frame of people. I have to say that like you said, 1 in 5 people are likely to suffer from mental troubles and the figure is rising. This means that it is not necessary that the Moon in Scorpio means mental troubles in the moon main period. There are many other factors to consider. Also, i have to say that anybody can be affected disregarding their moon sign. A lack of mental discipline, strees, modern materialistic life and many other factor can affect us all. As astrologers we have the responsability to balance all the indications in the chart before giving a prediction or a measure. > > I have to say that mantras, yantras and gems can be very helpful but we need as well a mental discipline to control our mind which is almost impossible to do so. > > Anna > > <<For better understanding I will quote a piece of his letter, sent to his brother Teo, who supported him and his passion for art, since poor genius was able > to sell his work for just $20, during his VERY PRODUCTIVE short life: "....that yellow ...that I created this summer > is so amazing that only insane person could produce it......I think that I will gladly accept that role...'(of being mad, for the sake of HIS ART)- sacrifice? Seems so- I feel that he had a mission (as I guess we all do) that he had fulfilled- he gave us so much, he couldn't have done more! >> > > Some sensitive people have the gift of seeing things in a different way. It is incredible the way that Gogh saw the world, so gifted indeed. > > > Here i have the DOB of Van Gogh And Nietzche. Both charts are calculated with Lahiri's ayanamsa. > > > > The Horoscope of > VINCENT VAN GOGH > -------------------------------- > According to "Jyotish", the "Light of God" > The Vedic System of Astrology revealed by > Vishnu (Almighty God) to our Forefathers > in the beginning of this creation. > > This document is best viewed in a > Mono-Spaced (fixed-width) font such > as "Courier" font, at size 12 or less. > > (Unlike Western Astrology, Vedic uses the actual > zodiac. Therefore, planetary positions vary > from Western Astrology positions by 23 degrees, > which often causes a change of sign.) > > Provided to you by > ------------------ > Natabara Das (Vedic Astrologer) > Printed on 10/04/2001 at 09:15 > Jyotish software: Goravani Jyotish v2 > > Based on the data of > -------------------- > 30/03/1853, at 10:41:20 > GMT > Vedic Astrology Weekday (Sunrise to Sunrise): Wednesday > Calendar Weekday: Wednesday > Lahiri: 21:48:11 > Gemeente Zundert Netherlands > 4 E 40 51 N 28 > Standard Time Hours from Greenwich: -0.00 > > Main Classifications for Vincent Van Gogh > -------------------- > Moon Sign: Scorpio > Rising Sign: Gemini > Sun Sign: Pisces > Moon Star (Nakshatra): Jyestha Pada (Quarter): 4 > Tithi 6th Tithi-Shasti of Waning Moon > Yoga 18th-Variyan > Karan 42nd-Vanija > > On the day of birth, at the place of birth: > Sunrise occured at local time:08:00:07 > Sunset occured at local time:18:03:56 > > The Positions in the Zodiac of the Ascendant, > also known as the Lagna, and the Planets, > and the Nakshatra (Star) ruling over each. > "Ret"='retrograde', meaning backwards moving. > > Planet Ret Sign (Rasi) Degrees Nakshatras > -------------------- > Ascendant Gemini 29° 21' Punarvasu > Sun Pisces 17° 51' Revati > Moon Scorpio 28° 55' Jyestha > Mars Pisces 4° 19' Uttarabhadrap > Mercury Aries 3° 48' Ashwini > Jupiter Sagittarius 2° 27' Mula > Venus Pisces 6° 15' Uttarabhadrap > Saturn Aries 24° 9' Bharani > Rahu Gemini 1° 40' Mrgashira > Ketu Sagittarius 1° 40' Mula > Uranus Aries 14° 59' Bharani > Neptune Aquarius 20° 25' Purvabhadrapa > Pluto Aries 8° 57' Ashwini > > North Indian Style Rasi Chart for Vincent Van Gogh > > ******************************************************* > ** * * ** > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * SAT * > * * CAN* LAG * TAU* * > * LEO** **ARI * > * * * RAH * * URA * > * * * * * PLU * > * * * * * MER * > * * * * * * > * * * 3 * * * > * * * * SUN * * > * VIR * PIS * > * * * * * * > * * * SAG * VEN * * > * * * * MAR * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * NEP * > * * * KET * * * > * LIB** **AQU * > * * SCO* JUP * CAP* * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * MOO * * * * > ** * * ** > ******************************************************* > > Below is a basic description of the main > components of your chart. Memorizing these points > about your chart will give you the ability to > describe it to any astrologer say at a party, or > over the phone. These are the main points that > any Vedic Astrologer would need to know before > discussing your chart. The zodiac is a belt of > stars that surrounds the equator of the Earth and > is divided into twelve major divisions of space > each being 30 degrees of the total 360 degrees of > space surrounding the Earth. At the time you were > born, one of these twelve signs was visible in > space on the Eastern Horizon from the place you > were born. This "rising sign" sets up the basic > structure of your chart and is very important. It > is a physical fact that the exact zodiac sign > specified in your Vedic chart was actually rising > on the Eastern Horizon as seen from the city of > your birth. Also, the positions of the planets > given in your chart were actually exactly where > the planets were at the time of your birth. > Counting the zodiac signs from your rising sign > sets up the houses of the chart. Each sign is > ruled by one of the planets, who is then called > the lord of that sign. Since each sign is in > their order one of the houses then each planet > becomes therefore lord of a house. Actually, most > planets rule two houses each, except the Sun and > the Moon, which rule only one each. Each house > stands for different affairs of life, and the lord > of the house carries that aspects of life with it > wherever it has gone to in the chart. For > example, the lord of the 9th house carries with it > the ability to grant fortunes, so the house it > goes to in any chart is greatly benefited. > Therefore, if the lord of the 9th house is in your > 2nd house, which rules your bank balance > situation, then it grants an increase in fortune > there, meaning it is a good placement for wealth. > Now let's list out your basic placements: > > You have Gemini rising. This is also called "your > Ascendant" or "your rising sign", and in India it is > called your "lagna" pronounced "lug-na". Since the signs > always proceed in a set order from the rising sign, you > thus have Cancer in your 2nd house, Leo in your 3rd house, > Virgo in your 4th house, Libra in your 5th house, Scorpio > in your 6th house, Sagittarius in your 7th house, > Capricorn in your 8th house, Aquarius in your 9th house, > Pisces in your 10th house, Aries in your 11th house, and > Taurus in your 12th house. > > The Sun is in the 10th house, in Pisces. > The Moon is in the 6th house, in Scorpio. > Mars is in the 10th house, in Pisces. > Mercury is in the 11th house, in Aries. > Jupiter is in the 7th house, in Sagittarius. > Venus is in the 10th house, in Pisces. > Saturn is in the 11th house, in Aries. > Rahu is in the 1st house, in Gemini. > Ketu is in the 7th house, in Sagittarius. > > Mercury is lord of the 1st house and is in the 11th. > Moon is lord of the 2nd house and is in the 6th. > Sun is lord of the 3rd house and is in the 10th. > Mercury is lord of the 4th house and is in the 11th. > Venus is lord of the 5th house and is in the 10th. > Mars is lord of the 6th house and is in the 10th. > Jupiter is lord of the 7th house and is in the 7th. > Saturn is lord of the 8th house and is in the 11th. > Saturn is lord of the 9th house and is in the 11th. > Jupiter is lord of the 10th house and is in the 7th. > Mars is lord of the 11th house and is in the 10th. > Venus is lord of the 12th house and is in the 10th. > > North Indian Style Navamsa Chart for Vincent Van Gogh > > ******************************************************* > ** * * ** > * * * * MER * * > * * * * * * > * MAR * * * * * > * VEN * * * * * > * URA * CAN* PLU * TAU* * > * LEO** **ARI * > * * * LAG * * * > * * * * * NEP * > * * * * * KET * > * * * * * JUP * > * * * 3 * * * > * * * * * * > * VIR * PIS * > * * * * * * > * * * SAG * * * > * RAH * * * MOO * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * SUN * * * > * LIB** **AQU * > * * SCO* * CAP* * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * SAT * * * * > ** * * ** > ******************************************************* > > Here i am going to display the indications of lunacy > > Gogh has the Moon in Scorpio in the 6th house. The Moon although neecha (weak) becomes neecha bhanga because Mars, his host is in kendra (corner) from the ascendant. Gogh went to a mental hospital on the 3 May 1889, during his Moon main period, Rahu bukti and Jupiter inter-period (MoRaJu). His jupiter inter came between 2 Apr & 14 June 1889. One of the rules in vedic astrology says that planets in the 2nd, 6th, 8th or 12th from each other indicates struggles during their mutual periods. Rahu is in the 6th from the moon and Jupiter is in the 2nd from the Moon are confirming the rule. > > The Moon is karaka (indicator) for the 4th house, the mind, and it is a neutral planet for gemini rising. Rahu in the ascendant has the tendency to make the native controversial and jupiter in Sagittarius at 2°28 is very close to ketu at 1°41. Jupiter with the nodes is a tantra yoga, indicating the potential for psychic powers, making the person extremely sensitive. Many mediums have that combination. A medium is a person that is in touch with other dimensions and this is not new because the vedas claim that we are living in a multidimensional universe. Here, Van Gogh was like a medium to another dimension which has a risk for "accidents" which are interpreted by modern medicine as lunacy. In a positive direction, the energies indicated by jupiter and Ketu, under the supervision of experts or under the guidance of guru, can produce very good results. One of the problems for Gogh was that he was practically isolated and few people could help him. It is by association that we go to hell or to heaven and it was unfortunate that gogh did not get help in time. > > Gogh shot himself in the stomach on 27 July 1890, during his MoJuJu periods. Here the Jupiter inter-period started on 12 July 1890 and finished on 15 Sep 1890. He died on 29 July 1890 at 1.30 am > > What about the transits? Well, we calculated for the day when he went to hospital for the first time (at noon). > > Based on the data of > -------------------- > 03/05/1889, at 12:00:00 > GMT > Lahiri: 22:18:24 > Gemeente Zundert Netherlands > 4 E 40 51 N 28 > Standard Time Hours from Greenwich: -0.00 > > Main Classifications for Today Today > -------------------- > Moon Sign: Taurus > Rising Sign: Leo > Sun Sign: Aries > Moon Star (Nakshatra): Mrgashira Pada (Quarter): 2 > Tithi 4th Tithi-Chaturthi of Waxing Moon > Yoga 6th-Atiganda > Karan 7th-Vanija > > The Positions in the Zodiac of the Ascendant, > also known as the Lagna, and the Planets, > and the Nakshatra (Star) ruling over each. > "Ret"='retrograde', meaning backwards moving. > > Planet Ret Sign (Rasi) Degrees Nakshatras > -------------------- > Ascendant Leo 6° 56' Magha > Sun Aries 20° 54' Bharani > Moon Taurus 28° 30' Mrgashira > Mars Taurus 3° 10' Krttika > Mercury Taurus 0° 29' Krttika > Jupiter R Sagittarius 15° 51' Purvashadha > Venus R Aries 17° 3' Bharani > Saturn Cancer 21° 26' Ashlesha > Rahu Gemini 23° 4' Punarvasu > Ketu Sagittarius 23° 4' Purvashadha > Uranus R Virgo 26° 40' Chitra > Neptune Taurus 8° 58' Krttika > Pluto Taurus 12° 37' Rohini > > North Indian Style Rasi Chart for Today Today > > ******************************************************* > ** * * ** > * * URA * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * SAT * * > * * * * * RAH * > * * VIR* LAG * CAN* * > * LIB** **GEM * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * MOO * * > * * * * * * > * * * 5 * * * > * * * * * * > * SCO * TAU PLU * > * * * * NEP * * > * * * AQU * MAR * * > * * * * MER * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * SUN * > * * * * * VEN * > * JUP SAG** **ARI * > * * CAP* * PIS* * > * KET * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > ** * * ** > ******************************************************* > > > North Indian Style Navamsa Chart for Today Today > > ******************************************************* > ** * * ** > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * JUP * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * CAN* * TAU* * > * LEO** **ARI * > * * * LAG * * * > * * * * * * > * * MOO * * * PLU * > * * VEN * * * RAH * > * * URA * 3 * * * > * * * * * * > * VIR * PIS * > * * * * * * > * * * SAG * * * > * SUN * * * NEP * * > * KET * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * LIB** **AQU * > * * SCO* * CAP* * > * * * * * * > * * * * SAT * * > * * * * MER * * > * * * * MAR * * > ** * * ** > ******************************************************* > > > We notice that the Moon is almost in opposition to his natal moon associated with Pluto, Mars, Mercury and neptune. No wonder why he snapped. Too many planets affecting his Moon. Jupiter and Rahu were similar as in the natal chart. Uranus was in transit on his 4th house (his mind). Satun was aspecting his 4th house, and his natal Mercury (nervous system) and Saturn. And Sun and Venus were over his Saturn (destiny). So, practically ALL the planets in transit were affecting his natal planets. Even the transit navamsa indicates some similarities. Transit Jup is over natal navamsa Venus and Mars, Moon, venus and uranus are opposite hisnavamsa Moon. Sun-Ketu are over Rahu. Neptune is over his moon and Pluto-Rahu are over his Ketu- Jupiter. > > Lets see now the horoscope of Nietzche. > > > The Horoscope of > FREDERICK NIETZCHE > -------------------------------- > > Based on the data of > -------------------- > 15/10/1844, at 09:11:28 > CET > Vedic Astrology Weekday (Sunrise to Sunrise): Tuesday > Calendar Weekday: Tuesday > Lahiri: 21:41:38 > Rocken Germany > 12 E 8 51 N 15 > Standard Time Hours from Greenwich: -0.00 > > Main Classifications for Frederick Nietzche > -------------------- > Moon Sign: Scorpio > Rising Sign: Scorpio > Sun Sign: Libra > Moon Star (Nakshatra): Jyestha Pada (Quarter): 1 > Tithi 4th Tithi-Chaturthi of Waxing Moon > Yoga 4th-Saubhagya > Karan 8th-Vishti > > On the day of birth, at the place of birth: > Sunrise occured at local time:05:41:24 > Sunset occured at local time:16:12:33 > > The Positions in the Zodiac of the Ascendant, > also known as the Lagna, and the Planets, > and the Nakshatra (Star) ruling over each. > "Ret"='retrograde', meaning backwards moving. > > Planet Ret Sign (Rasi) Degrees Nakshatras > -------------------- > Ascendant Scorpio 7° 32' Anuradha > Sun Libra 0° 25' Chitra > Moon Scorpio 17° 20' Jyestha > Mars Virgo 6° 13' Uttaraphalgun > Mercury Virgo 12° 27' Hasta > Jupiter R Pisces 4° 19' Uttarabhadrap > Venus Leo 14° 40' Purvaphalguni > Saturn Capricorn 9° 4' Uttarashadha > Rahu Scorpio 15° 18' Anuradha > Ketu Taurus 15° 18' Rohini > Uranus R Pisces 11° 51' Uttarabhadrap > Neptune R Capricorn 29° 19' Dhanistha > Pluto R Aries 1° 16' Ashwini > > North Indian Style Rasi Chart for Frederick Nietzche > > ******************************************************* > ** * * ** > * * * * SUN * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * SAT * SAG* RAH * LIB* * > * CAP** **VIR * > * * * MOO LAG * * MER * > * * * * * * > * * * * * MAR * > * NEP * * * * * > * * * 8 * * * > * * * * * * > * AQU * LEO VEN * > * * * * * * > * * * TAU * * * > * * * * * * > * JUP * * * * * > * * * * * * > * URA * * KET * * * > * PIS** **CAN * > * * ARI* * GEM* * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * PLU * * * * > ** * * ** > ******************************************************* > > The Sun is in the 12th house, in Libra. > The Moon is in the 1st house, in Scorpio. > Mars is in the 11th house, in Virgo. > Mercury is in the 11th house, in Virgo. > Jupiter is in the 5th house, in Pisces. > Venus is in the 10th house, in Leo. > Saturn is in the 3rd house, in Capricorn. > Rahu is in the 1st house, in Scorpio. > Ketu is in the 7th house, in Taurus. > > Mars is lord of the 1st house and is in the 11th. > Jupiter is lord of the 2nd house and is in the 5th. > Saturn is lord of the 3rd house and is in the 3rd. > Saturn is lord of the 4th house and is in the 3rd. > Jupiter is lord of the 5th house and is in the 5th. > Mars is lord of the 6th house and is in the 11th. > Venus is lord of the 7th house and is in the 10th. > Mercury is lord of the 8th house and is in the 11th. > Moon is lord of the 9th house and is in the 1st. > Sun is lord of the 10th house and is in the 12th. > Mercury is lord of the 11th house and is in the 11th. > Venus is lord of the 12th house and is in the 10th. > > North Indian Style Navamsa Chart for Frederick Nietzche > > ******************************************************* > ** * * ** > * * SUN * * JUP * * > * * URA * * VEN * * > * RAH * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * LIB* NEP * LEO* * > * SCO** **CAN * > * * * LAG * * * > * * * * * * > * * MOO * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * 6 * * * > * * * * * * > * SAG * GEM * > * * * * * * > * * * PIS * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * * * * > * * * SAT * * * > * CAP** **TAU * > * * AQU* * ARI* * > * * * * * * > * * * * * KET * > * * * * PLU * * > * * MAR * * MER * * > ** * * ** > ******************************************************* > > Here i have to clarify something very important. The data for Van Gogh and Nietzche are taken from Astro DAta II by Lois Rodden. According to Rodden, Gogh was born at 11:00 am LMT which gives 10:41:20 GMT. When calculating in the GJ, we should put this GMT as the time of birth and leave the zone at zero. For Nietzche, the LMT is 10:00 and the GMT is 09:11:28. In the GJ put this GMT as birt time and leave the zone at zero. > > Nietzche has the Moon in Scorpio very close to Rahu. What a combination. Gogh has Rahu in the ascendant but in Gemini. Here in Nietzche, both Moon and Rahu are debilitated but both achieve necha bhanga cos of being in a kendra (corner). > Nietzche fell mentally ill on 3 January 1889 during his Sun main period, Mars bukti and Venus antara or inter-period (SuMaVe). The Venus inter went from 19 Dec 1888 to 9 Jan 1889. Venus is powerful by being vargottama but in an enemy sign. So we could say that this is like the equivalent of necha bhanga but not quite so. Vargottama means when a planet is in the same sign in both the rasi and the navamsa charts. Vargottama is very important because it is like being in exaltation sign. However, a planet in exaltation or vargottama not necessarly means positive results, quite the opposite, sometimes the native can not control the powerful energy of that planet. And her in this case, Venus is opposite (aspecting) the 4th house the indicator of the mind. > > In Nietzche's rasi, the Sun is in the 12th in necha but achieves necha bhanga cos his host planet Venus is in kendra (a corner) and is also vargottama but is under papa-kartari yoga. This peculiar yoga (planetary combination) happens when a planet is between 2 malefic planets and here the Sun is between Mars and Rahu. Papa-kartari yoga has the tendencies to produce bad results and in Nietzche's case, it sent him to the mental hospital. Notice that Mars is causing that yoga and Mars bukti was ruling at the time of the start of his illness. > > Nietzche went to went to a mental hospital on 9 Jan 1889 at the beginning of his Sun antara, still in his MArs bukti. This antara ended on 15 Jan 1889 with the beginning of his moon antara which perhaps agraviated his illness. > > Nietzche started his Moon dasa on 3 Dec 1893 and died on 25 Aug 1900 during his MoMeRa. Here, Rahu inter came between 19 July 1900 to 5 Oct 1900. > > Nietzche's horoscope is a classical example to demostrate that sometimes powerful planets can produce bad results. Of course, we can say that Nietzche was a genius to the point of being misunderstood by many but in the end he could not control too much energies. > > Some astrologers say that the exaltation of Rahu is Taurus and some others say that it is Gemini. In my humble opinion i take both signs as exaltation for Rahu and for Ketu, Scorpio and Sagittarius. So, Nietzche has exalted Mercury, Necha bhanga Moon, Rahu, Ketu and the Sun. Vargottama Venus, Sun, Rahu and Ketu. And Saturn and Jupiter are are strong in their own sign. Only Mars is average but by being associated with exalted Mercury, or in other words, because the host of mars is exalted, Mars becomes strong as well. So practically all the planets are very strong. > > The BBC TV showed a documental few years ago demostrating that after the Berlin Wall fell, scholars got the opportunity to investigate his manuscripts and found that Nietzche's sister forged some of his writtings to make him appear as a nazi while the reality is the opposite. His sister married a fascist and Nietzche was against it but inside the hospital he could not do much. His sister's husband even arranged for a group of people to go to start a community of nazis in Paraguay and even today their descendants are still there. > > If you read Nietzche's books without prejudice, you will see that he was a genius indeed. > > i hope that this post is welcome by the list, otherwise criticism is welcome. > > My thanks to Das for his wonder-full programe. Without it my astrological services would be a night-mare. > > Lots of Love > > Natabara Das > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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