Guest guest Posted April 15, 2001 Report Share Posted April 15, 2001 OK, but it was on chinnese territory. That was not right. Vyas > > Donna M [sMTP:jyotish_d] > Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:10 PM > gjlist > [gjlist] Re: air crash near China > > Hi, > I just felt the need to comment on this situation. > I own a house that we were unable to sell when we had > to move across town and so we rent it out. The person > we rent it to is a high ranking officer in the US > Army. The hot water heater failed and had to be > replaced so we talked while waiting for the repair > yesterday, and I felt that he had some comments that I > found extremely interesting: > > 1 He stated that the mission was indeed peaceful and > not even noteworthy. > 2 The Chinese pilot had been approaching and even > harassing US planes in the area previously. > 3 He felt that the arrogant and aggressive demand of > an apology by the Chinese was indicative of Chinese > guilt or an attempt to get money from US. > 4 The US plane did not hit the Chinese plane rather > the Chinese plane charged and hit the American plane. > > > Personally, I think that the Chinese should > have apologized to the US. > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. > http://personal.mail./ > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2001 Report Share Posted April 15, 2001 Hello Vyas: It has not yet been established where the incident took place. The US insists it took place in international air space, which begins 12 miles (I think) from the coast. As the US has been flying these missions for a while, there is good reason to think that it was in fact in international airspace, although we may never know for sure. Whoever is technically in the wrong, I think the whole incident represents the emergence of China as a major power no longer content to sit back calmly while others keep tabs on it. Chris At 09:06 AM 4/15/01 -0400, you wrote: >OK, but it was on chinnese territory. That was not right. >Vyas > >> >> Donna M [sMTP:jyotish_d] >> Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:10 PM >> gjlist >> [gjlist] Re: air crash near China >> >> Hi, >> I just felt the need to comment on this situation. >> I own a house that we were unable to sell when we had >> to move across town and so we rent it out. The person >> we rent it to is a high ranking officer in the US >> Army. The hot water heater failed and had to be >> replaced so we talked while waiting for the repair >> yesterday, and I felt that he had some comments that I >> found extremely interesting: >> >> 1 He stated that the mission was indeed peaceful and >> not even noteworthy. >> 2 The Chinese pilot had been approaching and even >> harassing US planes in the area previously. >> 3 He felt that the arrogant and aggressive demand of >> an apology by the Chinese was indicative of Chinese >> guilt or an attempt to get money from US. >> 4 The US plane did not hit the Chinese plane rather >> the Chinese plane charged and hit the American plane. >> >> >> Personally, I think that the Chinese should >> have apologized to the US. >> >> >> >> >> Get email at your own domain with Mail. >> http://personal.mail./ >> >> >> gjlist- >> >> >> >> Your use of is subject to >> > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2001 Report Share Posted April 15, 2001 No, actually it was NOT on Chinese territory. It was NEAR China but NOT on chinese territory. It was on neutral territory that is NOT Chinese territory. --- "Manriquez R. Mauricio I." <MIMANRIQ wrote: > OK, but it was on chinnese territory. That was not > right. > Vyas > > > > > Donna M [sMTP:jyotish_d] > > Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:10 PM > > gjlist > > [gjlist] Re: air crash near China > > > > Hi, > > I just felt the need to comment on this > situation. > > I own a house that we were unable to sell when we > had > > to move across town and so we rent it out. The > person > > we rent it to is a high ranking officer in the US > > Army. The hot water heater failed and had to be > > replaced so we talked while waiting for the repair > > yesterday, and I felt that he had some comments > that I > > found extremely interesting: > > > > 1 He stated that the mission was indeed peaceful > and > > not even noteworthy. > > 2 The Chinese pilot had been approaching and even > > harassing US planes in the area previously. > > 3 He felt that the arrogant and aggressive demand > of > > an apology by the Chinese was indicative of > Chinese > > guilt or an attempt to get money from US. > > 4 The US plane did not hit the Chinese plane > rather > > the Chinese plane charged and hit the American > plane. > > > > > > Personally, I think that the Chinese > should > > have apologized to the US. > > > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. > > http://personal.mail./ > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2001 Report Share Posted April 16, 2001 It depends upon whose word you take as being truthful, and that makes a big difference in whom you'll believe. Communist-controlled government or Democratic Republic of, by, and for free people, which one has more status to lose by telling the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2001 Report Share Posted April 16, 2001 I have my doubts. chinnesses said this and americans say that. We have to ear both sides and then make a decision. Sorry. Vyasadeva > > Donna M [sMTP:jyotish_d] > Sunday, April 15, 2001 11:12 PM > gjlist > RE: [gjlist] Re: air crash near China > > > No, actually it was NOT on Chinese territory. It was > NEAR China but NOT on chinese territory. It was on > neutral territory that is NOT Chinese territory. > > > --- "Manriquez R. Mauricio I." > <MIMANRIQ wrote: > > OK, but it was on chinnese territory. That was not > > right. > > Vyas > > > > > > > > Donna M [sMTP:jyotish_d] > > > Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:10 PM > > > gjlist > > > [gjlist] Re: air crash near China > > > > > > Hi, > > > I just felt the need to comment on this > > situation. > > > I own a house that we were unable to sell when we > > had > > > to move across town and so we rent it out. The > > person > > > we rent it to is a high ranking officer in the US > > > Army. The hot water heater failed and had to be > > > replaced so we talked while waiting for the repair > > > yesterday, and I felt that he had some comments > > that I > > > found extremely interesting: > > > > > > 1 He stated that the mission was indeed peaceful > > and > > > not even noteworthy. > > > 2 The Chinese pilot had been approaching and even > > > harassing US planes in the area previously. > > > 3 He felt that the arrogant and aggressive demand > > of > > > an apology by the Chinese was indicative of > > Chinese > > > guilt or an attempt to get money from US. > > > 4 The US plane did not hit the Chinese plane > > rather > > > the Chinese plane charged and hit the American > > plane. > > > > > > > > > Personally, I think that the Chinese > > should > > > have apologized to the US. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. > > > http://personal.mail./ > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. > http://personal.mail./ > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 In a message dated 4/19/01 4:49:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kasi_visvanath writes: << Subj: [gjlist] Re: air crash near China 4/19/01 4:49:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time kasi_visvanath Reply-to: <A HREF="gjlist">gjlist</A> gjlist gjlist, Carolhook@a... wrote: > It depends upon whose word you take as being truthful, and that makes a big difference in whom you'll believe. Communist-controlled government or Democratic Republic of, by, and for free people, which one has more status to lose by telling the truth? Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Namaste!! this ongoing argument over a politically motivated dispute btw China and US is not only a waste of Jyotish web space, but a waste of time and effort...as well as a debasing of the lofty purposes of this list. now let me add to the wastage a little! ONCE only! when such comments as those above are given, one is immediately reminded of the Iran Contra Arms Drugs Scandal...and who was to be believed in that case...Did Ronnie Rayguns REALLY know nothing about it? and who WAS in charge of all this...Bush Senior!and did his boys have any support positions in all of this?Just ask yourselves which two southern states have the most drugs entering into the country thru themselves.....you guessed it...Florida and Texas...now which laundered the most drug money....Florida and Texas (in the south)...and which states provided the most presidential campaign funds...you guessed it again Florida and Texas...and which states do the Bushes run....Florida and Texas...interesting or...and which state DECIDED the Amerikan election....Florida, run by Jeb Bush...hmmmmmmm does any one see a pattern forming here? Should we REALLY trust GW's version of ANYTHING? Saddam Hussein believed the Amerikans would leave him alone after he sounded them out about his intentions re Kuwait, and was told it was no big deal, and that they weren't really interested...he thought Amerika was his "friend"...next thing he knew...Gulf War... we could go back even further....let's take a look at the second world war and just WHY Amerika refused to enter into the war until FORCED to by Japan.... the plain facts are, that the Big Amerikan industrialists, capitalists, and financiers were making entirely TOO much money dealing arms and parts to BOTH sides of the European conflict...and once again they had let Hitler believe that they were his "friends"...and that he was under no threat from them for rearranging Europe a little...it was making just way too much money for the people who live in the land of the "free" and home of the "brave"....just check out your Rockefellars, and your Duponts, and your Carnegies and Morgans...just take a little look at the dealings of Ford and General Motors...and Standard Oil,and check out how the German war machine ran on AMERIKAN tetra-ethyl lead gasoline, produced by an Amerikan designed and set up factory in Germany...and fuelling Ford vehicles in the war machine. German bombs, bombsights, and airplanes had parts manufactured by ITT....Standard Oil had a deal with IG Farben which stipulated that Standard would not develop a synthetic rubber (which IG Farben AG was working on) and IG Farben would not develop whatever that Standard Oil was working on...it even got so that the War department apparently told Standard Oil that its refusal to develop synthetic rubber was a major stumbling block in the Amerikan "war" effort....and that if the war was lost to Germany...Standard Oil would be very much responsible...they still wouldn't work on synthetic rubber, because commercial interests were far more important than national interests...and to capitalists look the same...in fact the CIA was founded by these same Nazis in the Amerikan attic...as a means to cover up the shady dealings of these major players in the financial and capitalistic games....they didn't want it let out that they had been hand in hand working with both the enemy and their own side...(as originally the "enemy" had been a "friend".) but come the 1960's, and these same companies were presssing the US government for war reparations...for damages incurred to their industrial plants in Germany during the war, which were producing German war materiel...and guess what...they got paid....millions and millions of dollars...because the Government knew what REALLY had been going on...but has been producing their "Dick meets Jane" historical versions of the whole war ever since...to cover up their own criminal activities...not only the Nazis in Germany have a lot to hide.... the Nazis in the Amerikan closet do too! so it begins to appear that Amerika is a VERY TREACHEROUS FRIEND indeed....they'll sell you arms arms arms...but what they won't tell you is that they're also selling arms to your enemy "Bill"...over the hill and down the way...so that you can both have fun blowing each other up....oh yes this is so ethical! and then you can ask me again just whose version of events we should believe....NEITHER!!!!They both have an agenda to press on to the rest of us...both China and the US can benefit from having an enemy...each other!!...this will pump billions of dollars into the pockets of GW Bush and his capitalist friends who support the arms trade... just remember the charts for the Bush "inauguration"...and tell me he isn't interested in having an enemy...no matter what it takes...lies are great for that...slightly stretched truth is even better....and truth which is partially told, but keeping back just the right items....that's the best...tried and true by your beloved CIA...and the White house for years and years....why should it be any different this time??? if you Amerikans expect the rest of the world to automatically buy the Bush version of reality, you will be in for a BIG disappointment...because unlike you, who voted for him, the rest of the world sees him as a potential despot, and a war monger....not to mention a death-penalty, and prison-crazed ex-governor of Texas...the state with the most prison inmates, per capita, of any in the union....does this sound like a healthy way to run a State, much less a country??? Just because Amerika is the only bully on the block doesn't mean that Amerika is always right! And do you REALLY think that the government in the US or ANYWHERE is run by the people, for the people, and of the people????? You mean you bought all that propaganda that the Goverment has been peddling for the last two centuries????...US Government has ALWAYS been by the elite, wealthy, capitalistic types and FOR the elite capitalistic types...NEVER by, OR for, the common man...the common man exists only as fodder for the capitalists....that hasn't changed in two centuries...what has changed is the cute little stories they use to disguise the trap... as John Lennon used to sing: "You think you're so clever and classless and free, But you're all f-ing peasants as far as i can see...." who do you think this was directed to, my dear Amerikan friends? Now please let us not have any more useless political discussions on this, a jyotish list...perhaps the best we can hope for is to agree to disagree.... thank you for your kind patience in reading this....sorry if i threw some cold water on your bonfire....but after reading all the glib repeatings of the standard media B.S., which i would hope NEVER to see on such a list as this one, i felt it necessary to introduce a little perspective...take off your blinders, Amerika and look at the rest of the world....how do THEY see you...the land of the "free" and home of the "brave"...is there a reason that Amerika is NOT the favourite-most country in the world????just ask yourselves that one in the quiet of a starlight night....when such silly things as patriotism, and "My country tis of Thee" assume their real significance in the Universal Order...we think we mere specks of dust are SO important....and yet our essential fragility is without doubt... we are but little birds perched timorously upon a dry twig, enjoying the "fruits" of our karmas...and at ANY moment that twig may break...and we will have to fly away...to our next incarnation...that will show us what is REALLY important, and what is mere frippery! You decide yourselves, whether political disputes are a worthy engagement for this little bird perched on a dry twig....who never knows when it will break...(think of our friend Natabara for example...that is EACH ONE OF US dear sisters and brothers...at ANY MOMENT, exactly the same or another more "interesting" fate may hit any one of us....Do we want to have wasted our valuable lives on political disputes????????)...or would it be much better to have developed a real, lasting, loving relationship with the Beloved Deity???you decide... Perhaps it might be of more value to honestly, and with great passion, pursue your heart's dream...and leave the politics to the crooks who love it (unless of course YOU are one of those crooks...in which case...have fun on your dry twig!!) in the Divine Mother's Love, and in Her Service, as ever, Your Own Self, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! gjlist- >> Bonnie HRM Design 298 10th Street Holly Hill, FL 32117 (904) 253-9897 (904) 253-9867 --fax www.HRMdesign.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 I am sorry that last post was not meant to go to the group but to be forwarded to a friend that has interest in these things.... For myself I hope never to see this type of things on this group again...... perhaps a vain hope.... BeLoved, Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 <<and which states do the Bushes run....Florida and Texas...interesting or...and which state DECIDED the Amerikan election....Florida, run by Jeb Bush...hmmmmmmm does any one see a pattern forming here?..>> Question: Who are the American people who voted for these candidates in order for them to run, and then had the bad sense to have followed up and voted them into office? A bunch of co-conspirators, no doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 kasi_visvanath wrote: > gjlist, Carolhook@a... wrote: > > It depends upon whose word you take as being truthful, ............ > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! > > Namaste!! > > this ongoing argument over a politically motivated dispute btw China > and US is not only a waste of Jyotish web space, but a waste of time > and effort...... Dear KV, Friends, KV has written a great letter, every word of which is after my heart - and mind! It is funny that KV writes "Amerika" instead of "America", but that too is very correct: the true name should have been "Ameriqua", the nae of the original natives for their continent, as Natabara told me! (May he recover soon!) Since KV has "polluted the scene", I beg permissiuon to follow. I have already written once on this matter, but would like to expand a bit - for the last time! As I said last time, what politicians a nd media "reveal" to the public is mostly untruth. It is all "disinformation". This is done to avoid violent protest from the public, or to prevent panic in adangerous situation. It is also done to cover up "machinations". I will give one example: India and Soth Africa were in a state of cold war for years. There were no diplomatic relations, citizens of neither country was allowed to visit the the other country. On one occasion, when my ship ran out of water, SA refused to allow us to enter Capetown to tank up drinking water, we were forced to distil sea water. Both India and SA had bought the same type of army tanks from britain. India replaced these with a new make and the old tanks were redundant. SA did not change, but wanted spare parts for their old machines. India decided to sell her old tanks to SA to be 2slaughtered" for spare parts! A private person in britain was chosen as agent to settle the deal. He chartered a ship in his name, and a private Indian did the same; the tanks were loaded on to one and in mid-ocean transfwerred to the other; the British ship could enter SA harbours! The cold war went on, but the sale was fait accompli! There is another secret I cannot reveal, having sworn not to. But this will amaze all "arm-chair politicians"! During the early 1900s a strange figure called Sir Basil Zaharoff appeared discreetly in the political world. He had passports from various nations, nobody knows his origin. He spoke the language of the nations to which he apparently belonged perfectly. He had doubles, so that "he" was in more than one place at a time! He founded a world empire: that of weapon manufacturers. By criminal activities he founded the firm of Vickers-Armstrong in London. He managed to see that every big arms manufacturer in the world had shares in the others, so that in the end, they all profited, whether on the winning or losing side! his biggest coup was this: the casino of Monte Carlo was a gambling den for all prominent people. It was a place to be seen at, like Niarritz. High stakes were not laid out in cash, but on a credit system. rooms were allotted for stake ranges and one could play in a particular room only such sums as were in the range - and if one could provide proof of solvency. The owners were careful: title alone did not decide who could gamble, the assets should cover the risk! So they engaged Pinkerton´s of london, the most efficient of all detective agencies in the world at that time. P dug up ALL info, not only actual assets, but also VULNERABILITY! Info as to possible commitments AND what could be used to blackmail the person concerned: what the casino could use to make the person pay OR what someone else could implement, which made the person a financial risk! All this data was kept secret. When the casino got into financial difficulties, the owners decided to sell. Zaharoff was the only person who offered cash at once, offered far more than asked for: but on condition that he got the Pinkerton data. The sale was sealed. Zaharoff used the P data to blackmail all the prime ministers and war ministers of Europe and the US. Most of the lever was sex-oriented, liaisons, homosexuality etc. but it worked! He also bribrd them with shares in the universal conglomerate firm of manufacturers of armaments. They all ended up very rich! He "organized" the first world war........ He did not organize the second world war, but his successors did. The Hearst group did a lot to support Hitler, only Pearl Harbour changed the situation. But also the threat that Hitler would become really independent and not fall in line. Just to point out the truth of ewhat i say: during both world wars NO signoficant factory producing weapons was bombed. Those that were destroyed were "outdated" and EVACUATED - hardly any life was lost in that connection. The bombing of the Krupp factory in Germany is controversial: some say it was a mistake. But even then, it was hardly manned, and the fate of Germany had been decided. The loss only led to building a modern factory at the same site! You can read the whole story - a most fascinating, terrifying and exciting story - in Upton Sinclair´s "world´s End" series. You can find this chapter only in the FIRST PUBLICATION! It was vetted, Sinclair apparently did not want to withdraw his story, and so the chapter was elimininated in alls subsequent edir´tions with the note " Chapter or parts thereof deleted"! The BBc and German TVs each made excellent documentaries during the 60s on this subject, with very interesting interviews with people directly concerned. The versions were not identical, but more complementary, holes in one were filled in by the other. I tried recently to get ideo tapes of t., the BBc refuses to srnd me the video because I live outside the Uk, the German version cost me $100 - but was vetted most crudely. What I saw during the first broad cast was taken away, scenes and words abruptly cut off, blanks left in before changing scene! Carter´s "glasnost" policy only released acts and files for public reading, but did not really reveal much: the crucial passages are heavily blacked out: "security of the US"! The Us is administered by the president, but ruled by two other bodies: the Majestic 12 and the Mafia. If not tolerated by either, he will be eliminated. The MJ 12 is not criminal or particularly greedy for money or power. The members have both without having to strive for it. Their aim is "guaranteeing the integrity of the state". They don´t interfere with tax-reforms etc. but if they feel the nation is threatebed, they are ruthless in their methods! The empire that Zaharoff built is still active. As I said, don´t try to investigate too deep. ot you will get into serious trouble. regards Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 In a message dated 4/19/2001 11:07:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SheMystery writes: > For myself I hope never to see this type of things on this group again...... > perhaps a vain hope.... > > BeLoved, > Bonnie > > Me too, Bonnie, Love, Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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