Trimsamsa chart: Anshu

[Guest guest]

Dear Anshu, Namaste -

 

You had asked about the Trimsamsa chart - please note as follows my response:

 

The Trimsamsa refers to the degrees of a sign that are grouped under the

five planets ruling the five Tattvas (physical and subtle elements, which

are states of matter and energy). The Trimsamsa is thus basically the

division of a rasi by 5, yet the divisions are unequal. The divisions run

as follows: In Odd signs, the first 5 degrees belong to Aries Trimsamsa;

the next 5 degrees (5-10) belong to Aquarius; from 10 to 18 degrees belong

to Sagittarius; from 18 to 25 belong to Gemini; and then from 25 to 30

belong to Libra. In even signs, the divisions are reverse of this,

starting with Taurus. So 0 to 5 belong to Ta; 5-12 belong to Virgo 12 to

20 belong to Pisces; 20 to 25 belong to Capricorn; and 25 to 30 belong to

Scorpio.

 

Now, the first thing that you will notice with the Trimsamsa divisions, is

that none of the Trimsamsas are ruled by Cancer or Leo. Thus the Rasis

representing the 5 Tattvas are referred to, and not those of the Sun and

Moon, which represent dimensions associated with light, or dimensions of

consciousness. Thus, the Trimsamsa chart deals with actions performed on

the physical plane, and has nothing to do with those karmas associated with

the spiritual path, or the path of the Atma. For the level of spiritual

evolution attained by a native, look to the Vimsamsa, or 20th division chart.

 

So the five Tattvas are as follows, next to their planetary rulers:

 

Earth, ruled by Saturn

Water, ruled by Venus

Fire, ruled by Mars

Air, ruled by Mercury

Ether, ruled by Jupiter

 

Planets in the Trimsamsa chart will be placed only in the signs ruled by

these planets: there are no placements of planets in Cancer or Leo, as

these are ruled out of this scheme.

 

Thus, the Trimsamsa chart shows where sufferings of the most ominous kinds

will be experienced, as actions (karmas) performed in the realm of maya, or

illusion, are as a result of pursuit of the objects of the senses, which

are born of the five Tattvas as given above. Look to the Trimsamsa chart

to time the periods of the greatest suffering, whether it be due to

physical, mental or emotional, or other kinds of vexing and stigmatic

karmas that are destined for the native. Such sufferings will be shown by

malefics afflicting the Rasis and planets associated with different body

parts, and bodily organs. Make sure to include Rasi drishtis in the

assessments of effects on parts of the body represented by signs and planets.

 

In medical astrology, the Trimsamsa chart is thus used widely, in addition

to the Shastamsa chart, which consists of an equal division of a rasi by

6. There are key uses of the Drekkana chart also, in medical astrology,

that I can comment on, if anyone is interested.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk

[Guest guest]

Namaste Vishti,

 

At 09:37 PM 4/29/01 +0200, you wrote:

>Namaste Robert.

>Great Mail, very elaborate.

>

>Please explain the key Drekkana uses.

>

>Best wishes, Visti.

 

Sure, absolutely. The uses in Drekkana chart that are key in medical

assessments are as follows:

 

In Jaimini Sutram, 3.3.59, the sage makes these comments:

 

" Sva trimsaanamsho, kaulakaanaam; phalaani rogaadayah"

 

This means that disease and other evils are seen from the lagna, Trimsamsa

and Kauluka (6th division of a sign). Since in the previous stanzas, he

was talking about the Drekkana, lagna here refers to the Drekkana

chart. "Kauluka" refers to the Shastamsa, or 6th division chart, as I

talked about before. "Rogaadayah" refers to all varieties of diseases. So

for medical astrology, make special use of the Drekkana, the Trimsamsa, and

Shastamsa charts.

 

Now, regarding Drekkana: Planets having the same Drekkana, i.e.

moveable/fixed/dual, as Lagna (that is the *Drekkana lagna*) shall afflict

the portion above the neck. Planets in the second type of Drekkana from

the lagna, i.e. the Panapara, or succedent sign from the Drekkana lagna)

shall afflict the portion of the body from the neck to the waist, or the

trunk as it were; and planets in the third type of Drekkana (i.e. the

Apoklima, or cadent signs from the Drekkana lagna), afflict the lower

portions, i.e. from the waist to the feet.

 

So, basically digesting all of this information, let me give an example chart:

 

Male

Jan. 10, 1953

20:25 GMT

Manchester, England

 

He was afflicted with an aggressive brain tumor, for which emergency

surgery was required.

 

In the Drekkana chart, the sign Sagittarius is rising with five planets in

dual signs afflicting the lagna by rasi drishti. In order words, signs of

the same sign-type as the Drekkana lagna (its kendras) were occupied by

afflicting planets. The planets are the nodes, Mars, as well as Venus and

Moon. The latter two respectively rule the 6th and 8th houses, as well as

the Arudhas of 8th and 6th houses respectively. So the portion of the body

represented by the first Drekkana, namely the head to the neck, is the

portion that gets afflicted by these planets.

 

In summary, the rule is as follows:

 

In the Drekkana chart, planets in kendra to the lagna afflict the head to neck;

Planets in Panapara, or succedent (2,5,8, and 11) afflict the neck to waist;

Planets in Apoklima, or cadent signs (3,6,9, and 12) afflict the waist to

the feet.

 

In other words, if it is a cardinal sign rising in Drekkana, all the

malefics in cardinal signs will afflict the first third, head to neck;

fixed signs and malefics in them, will afflict the neck to waist, or third

portion; and malefics in the dual signs, will afflict the waist to the

feet. Follow the same order, i.e. kendra, Panapara, and Cadent, for

whatever sign type may be rising. Try to ascertain further the source of

the disease, by what Tattvas are thus afflicted, and what body organs are

represented by which houses/signs.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk

[Guest guest]

Doesn't seem to work for me Robert!

 

Venus in 8th (Rashi) gives greatest affliction in my chart. In Drekkana

Virgo rises (dual) with Venus in Aries (movable). Another cause for concern

is Ascendant lord Saturn in 6th (in Rashi in nakshatra of Mars. Once again,

in Drekkana, Virgo rises (dual) with Saturn in Gemini (dual).

 

Using your principle Venus should afflict trunk (neck to waist)...not so!

Saturn should afflict the portion above the neck (head)...not so! Perhaps

I've misunderstood your principle.

 

Looking at the Rashi in the example chart you've presented, we see that

Ascendant lord Sun (Ascendant governs head/brain, and so does karaka Sun) is

being aspected by 6th lord Saturn and 8th lord Jupiter (both these houses

are involved with disease). Jupiter expands (expansion of happiness is his

primary nature), and when aspecting Asc for instance can result in obesity

(expansion of body)...as 8th lord that tendency to expand can take on

ominous proportions, therefore Jupiter is often associated with tumours etc.

The aspect of Saturn dispositor of and in nakshatra of (surgical) Mars,

suggests surgical intervention, and also hospitalisation due to conjunction

with 12th lord Moon.

 

I just can't help but wonder why the Rashi is continually ignored in favour

of divisional charts?

 

Regards

Wendy

 

You wrote:

==========

In Jaimini Sutram, 3.3.59, the sage makes these comments:

 

" Sva trimsaanamsho, kaulakaanaam; phalaani rogaadayah"

 

This means that disease and other evils are seen from the lagna, Trimsamsa

and Kauluka (6th division of a sign). Since in the previous stanzas, he

was talking about the Drekkana, lagna here refers to the Drekkana

chart. "Kauluka" refers to the Shastamsa, or 6th division chart, as I

talked about before. "Rogaadayah" refers to all varieties of diseases. So

for medical astrology, make special use of the Drekkana, the Trimsamsa, and

Shastamsa charts.

 

Now, regarding Drekkana: Planets having the same Drekkana, i.e.

moveable/fixed/dual, as Lagna (that is the *Drekkana lagna*) shall afflict

the portion above the neck. Planets in the second type of Drekkana from

the lagna, i.e. the Panapara, or succedent sign from the Drekkana lagna)

shall afflict the portion of the body from the neck to the waist, or the

trunk as it were; and planets in the third type of Drekkana (i.e. the

Apoklima, or cadent signs from the Drekkana lagna), afflict the lower

portions, i.e. from the waist to the feet.

 

So, basically digesting all of this information, let me give an example

chart:

 

Male

Jan. 10, 1953

20:25 GMT

Manchester, England

 

He was afflicted with an aggressive brain tumor, for which emergency

surgery was required.

 

In the Drekkana chart, the sign Sagittarius is rising with five planets in

dual signs afflicting the lagna by rasi drishti. In order words, signs of

the same sign-type as the Drekkana lagna (its kendras) were occupied by

afflicting planets. The planets are the nodes, Mars, as well as Venus and

Moon. The latter two respectively rule the 6th and 8th houses, as well as

the Arudhas of 8th and 6th houses respectively. So the portion of the body

represented by the first Drekkana, namely the head to the neck, is the

portion that gets afflicted by these planets.

 

In summary, the rule is as follows:

 

In the Drekkana chart, planets in kendra to the lagna afflict the head to

neck;

Planets in Panapara, or succedent (2,5,8, and 11) afflict the neck to waist;

Planets in Apoklima, or cadent signs (3,6,9, and 12) afflict the waist to

the feet.

 

In other words, if it is a cardinal sign rising in Drekkana, all the

malefics in cardinal signs will afflict the first third, head to neck;

fixed signs and malefics in them, will afflict the neck to waist, or third

portion; and malefics in the dual signs, will afflict the waist to the

feet. Follow the same order, i.e. kendra, Panapara, and Cadent, for

whatever sign type may be rising. Try to ascertain further the source of

the disease, by what Tattvas are thus afflicted, and what body organs are

represented by which houses/signs.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

At 11:19 AM 4/30/01 +0800, you wrote:

>Doesn't seem to work for me Robert!

 

Thank you for your response, and taking the time to look into the Drekkana

principle of disease analysis.

 

>Venus in 8th (Rashi) gives greatest affliction in my chart. In Drekkana

>Virgo rises (dual) with Venus in Aries (movable). Another cause for concern

>is Ascendant lord Saturn in 6th (in Rashi in nakshatra of Mars. Once again,

>in Drekkana, Virgo rises (dual) with Saturn in Gemini (dual).

>

>Using your principle Venus should afflict trunk (neck to waist)...not so!

>Saturn should afflict the portion above the neck (head)...not so! Perhaps

>I've misunderstood your principle.

 

Yes, you've understood the principle correctly, and if it doesn't work in

your case, then put your chart in the "minus" column of your research on

it. As in all classical astrological principles, time spent researching it

reveals (1) whether or not it works; (2) if it doesn't as written, then

what variables, if any, are there on the rules presented; and (3) in how

many instances does it work, versus instances when it does not. After

studying a minimum of 10 charts in this way, you should get at what you are

looking for. Of course, time is a commodity as well.

 

There are some things that you can find out from your Drekkana chart,

however. First, is that the Agni tattva, or fire, is unbalanced, or

over-active, and especially the part of the body effected by such is the

head region. Note that by rasi aspect, Ketu and Mars occupy the lagna of

the D-3 chart, which is a dual sign, Virgo. Further, The Sun aspects lagna

as well. So Agni is extreme, thus exacerbating Pitta. Jupiter's aspect

too from Pisces may help as his energy is mild or cooling, but then again

he is a maraka lord in the chart, so you wonder to what extent it will do

so. So efforts to subdue Pitta would be a safeguard to health, I believe.

 

Now, regarding Venus: Another important point regarding Drekkanas, is that

the 22nd Drekkana from the Rising drekkana (this is equivalent to the 8th

house in the Drekkana chart), is taken to be very evil so far as disease

and shortened longevity, and so is its lord. Venus is thus placed in the

22nd Drekkana, thus making Venus itself a focal point of potential

disease. Also notable, is that Aries in your Drekkana chart is the Shasta

pada, or Arudha of the 6th house, which adds particular maleficence to

it. In fact, the Arudhas of the 8th and the 6th exchange signs: A6 is in

the 8th house, and A8, is in the 6th house. This in turn will bring

disease through Venus. You also mentioned several failed marriages, which

are of course the emotional side of this affliction. As I said in my

previous mail, the organs of the body affected by afflicted planets in the

Drekkana, as well as Tattvas that are unbalanced, should be watched

closely. So the affliction of Venus puts the onus on the reproductive

organs, glands, kidneys, and endocrine systems, as well as blood sugar

levels (Diabetes). I think you mentioned some time ago, that you had type

2 Diabetes. Then from the Panapara position of the 8th house in Drekkana,

Venus' affliction affects the neck to the trunk area, or in other words,

imbalance of blood sugar comes through the liver and pancreas, which are in

that region of the body.

 

Taking all the malefic influence into account in the Drekkana chart,

special attention to health will need to be paid during sub-periods of

malefics, as well as the entire dasa of Ketu.

 

>Looking at the Rashi in the example chart you've presented, we see that

>Ascendant lord Sun (Ascendant governs head/brain, and so does karaka Sun) is

being aspected by 6th lord Saturn and 8th lord Jupiter (both these houses

>are involved with disease). Jupiter expands (expansion of happiness is his

>primary nature), and when aspecting Asc for instance can result in obesity

>(expansion of body)...as 8th lord that tendency to expand can take on

>ominous proportions, therefore Jupiter is often associated with tumours etc.

>The aspect of Saturn dispositor of and in nakshatra of (surgical) Mars,

>suggests surgical intervention, and also hospitalisation due to conjunction

>with 12th lord Moon.

>

>I just can't help but wonder why the Rashi is continually ignored in favour

>of divisional charts?

 

I don't know where the idea came in, that persons who use varga charts

extensively, do so to the neglect of the birth chart. Did anyone say

that? Of course, in the birth chart, you are going to get important

indications of disease and parts of the body afflicted. In your case,

Saturn shows poor digestion and constipation, and Venus we already talked

about. What I would have done if I was to read your chart, would be to

first see that by position as well as Rasi aspect, all the fire planets -

Mars, Sun, and Ketu -- afflict the ascendant in your chart. Then, I would

look for agreement on this in the Drekkana, Trimsamsa, and Shastamsa

charts. Thus the crux, or root of the specific disease, is unbalanced

Agni, as mentioned above vis a vis your Drekkana chart.

 

Anyway, the example chart I used, of course, shows the disease of brain

tumor in the rasi chart, as you pointed out. My attempt was to verify a

classical principle using Drekkanas, which applied verbatim in his

case. The head (i.e. malefics afflicting signs of the same nature as the

lagna), as per the Drekkana chart, had all the malefics, including Venus

and Moon (who are Kapha producing, and thus cause expansion in the form of

a growth, or tumor), and then Mars. Rahu, Ketu also, creating a dire

situation.

 

Anyway, I choose to push the limits so far as what I know and apply, and I

encourage my students to do the same. In other words, we should not be

*satisfied* with what we know, and not choose to research on the many

classical principles presented. Why, for example, would Parasara give

elaborate explanations of varga charts, if he thought that they were just

incidental or not very important? I believe that serious astrologers

should pursue their knowledge of the subject aggressively and passionately,

with faith and awe in the vision of the sages, and not just sit on one or

two things that work, and be satisfied.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk

[Guest guest]

Hello Robert,

 

You wrote:

==========

Yes, you've understood the principle correctly, and if it doesn't work in

your case, then put your chart in the "minus" column of your research on

it.

 

MY REPLY: Then it's not a hard and fast "Rule" and should not be put forward

as such...it's misleading, and if taught to budding students can result in a

maze of confusion, don't you think?

 

You wrote:

=========

There are some things that you can find out from your Drekkana chart,

however. First, is that the Agni tattva, or fire, is unbalanced, or

over-active, and especially the part of the body effected by such is the

head region. Note that by rasi aspect, Ketu and Mars occupy the lagna of

the D-3 chart, which is a dual sign, Virgo. Further, The Sun aspects lagna

as well. So Agni is extreme, thus exacerbating Pitta.

 

MY REPLY: Pitta Vrikriti is more easily seen from Rashi...BTW Ketu is windy

in temperament (Vata, not Pitta).

 

You wrote:

=========

Now, regarding Venus: Another important point regarding Drekkanas, is that

the 22nd Drekkana from the Rising drekkana (this is equivalent to the 8th

house in the Drekkana chart), is taken to be very evil so far as disease

and shortened longevity, and so is its lord. Venus is thus placed in the

22nd Drekkana, thus making Venus itself a focal point of potential

disease. Also notable, is that Aries in your Drekkana chart is the Shasta

pada, or Arudha of the 6th house, which adds particular maleficence to

it. In fact, the Arudhas of the 8th and the 6th exchange signs: A6 is in

the 8th house, and A8, is in the 6th house. This in turn will bring

disease through Venus. You also mentioned several failed marriages, which

are of course the emotional side of this affliction. As I said in my

previous mail, the organs of the body affected by afflicted planets in the

Drekkana, as well as Tattvas that are unbalanced, should be watched

closely.

 

MY REPLY: All of the above was discussed (in length) on the list not long

ago using Rashi as example...all is clearly seen from Rashi.

 

You wrote:

==========

So the affliction of Venus puts the onus on the reproductive

organs, glands, kidneys, and endocrine systems, as well as blood sugar

levels (Diabetes).

I think you mentioned some time ago, that you had type 2 Diabetes. Then

from the Panapara position of the 8th house in Drekkana, Venus' affliction

affects the neck to the trunk area, or in other words, imbalance of blood

sugar comes through the liver and pancreas, which are in that region of the

body.

 

MY REPLY: Again Robert, this is not correct...any blood sugar problems I

have is related entirely to diet (Kapha imbalance). This is seen with

Jupiter aspecting Asc; I am not insulin dependant, and if I can manage to

keep Kapha in check I never will be. Unlike type one diabetics who actually

do suffer malfunction of pancreas, etc. The Pitta vrikriti involving Venus

in 8th house affects parts of body related to Venus moolatrikona

sign...inflammatory pitta disorder...nothing to do with diabetes, sorry!

 

Regards

Wendy

[Guest guest]

An important addition here Robert that I neglected to mention is that (to

date, and I'm approaching 58) there has never been any medical problem

involving "head region". I don't even get headaches. So I say, rather than

drekkana showing afflicted body parts more readily than Rashi, if one relies

on any varga for delineation, one is sure to be wrong.

 

You wrote:

=========

There are some things that you can find out from your Drekkana chart,

however. First, is that the Agni tattva, or fire, is unbalanced, or

over-active, and especially the part of the body effected by such is the

head region.

 

Regards

Wendy

[Guest guest]

Wendy,

 

At 10:35 AM 5/1/01 +0800, you wrote:

>Hello Robert,

>

>You wrote:

>==========

>Yes, you've understood the principle correctly, and if it doesn't work in

>your case, then put your chart in the "minus" column of your research on

>it.

>

>MY REPLY: Then it's not a hard and fast "Rule" and should not be put forward

>as such...it's misleading, and if taught to budding students can result in a

>maze of confusion, don't you think?

 

So you are telling me, that something that Maharishi Jaimini wrote, is not

a hard and fast rule? Oh, so Wendy V. shall decide which of the sages

writings are rules, and which ones are not! If it, like many astrological

principles, do not work for you, that is fine. But don't dismiss Jaimini's

teachings, or my humble attempts to pass them on, as "misleading". Maybe

its confusing to you, either because of lack of energy to research what the

classical statements suggest, or maybe it is just a matter of lack of

intelligence.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk

[Guest guest]

Wendy writes:

 

At 10:48 AM 5/1/01 +0800, you wrote:

>An important addition here Robert that I neglected to mention is that (to

>date, and I'm approaching 58) there has never been any medical problem

>involving "head region". I don't even get headaches. So I say, rather than

>drekkana showing afflicted body parts more readily than Rashi, if one relies

>on any varga for delineation, one is sure to be wrong.

>

>You wrote:

>=========

>There are some things that you can find out from your Drekkana chart,

>however. First, is that the Agni tattva, or fire, is unbalanced, or

>over-active, and especially the part of the body effected by such is the

>head region.

 

There is obviously too much Agni afflicting the head region. Impatience,

anger, temperamental disposition, and argumentativeness are among obvious

symptoms.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk

[Guest guest]

Dear Robert,

 

Perhaps the problem is not with Jaimini, but with those interpreting Jaimini

:-)

 

Best Regards

Wendy

 

You wrote:

=========

So you are telling me, that something that Maharishi Jaimini wrote, is not

a hard and fast rule? Oh, so Wendy V. shall decide which of the sages

writings are rules, and which ones are not! If it, like many astrological

principles, do not work for you, that is fine. But don't dismiss Jaimini's

teachings, or my humble attempts to pass them on, as "misleading". Maybe

its confusing to you, either because of lack of energy to research what the

classical statements suggest, or maybe it is just a matter of lack of

intelligence.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

[Guest guest]

Again Dear Robert,

 

This is seen clearly from the Rashi, Mars in 5th: Quick, sharp, combative

tendencies of the mind (ouch! guilty as charged). But this is not a medical

problem as you're suggesting via drekkana. Even Ketu in Lagna hasn't given

(touch wood) any "physical" problems related to head...what it has given

(during Ketu's periods) is worry, anxiety...that sort of thing.

 

I think it's healthy for there to be checks and balances (which is what

these debates offer), otherwise the true light of jyotish (like that of

religion) can disappear under a heavy blanket of dogma.

 

Peace Robert,

Wendy

 

You wrote:

==========

There is obviously too much Agni afflicting the head region. Impatience,

anger, temperamental disposition, and argumentativeness are among obvious

symptoms.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

[Guest guest]

Namaste Wendy,

 

Your agni Tattwa is not seen through planets in the 5th house. This

effects the mind, but rather agni tattwa is indicated through the

disposition of the ascendant which deals with the body and

personality overall.

 

In your case Ketu, who due to ownership of Scorpio, is fiery like

Mars, and sits in the ascendant. The other fiery planets, Mars in

Aries navamsa and Sun from Leo aspect the ascendant by rasi dristi,

giving a completely combatative personality.

 

In the Navamsa, the Sun rises. In both Rasi and Navamsa, Mars sits in

the 12th house from the ascendant lord, thereby influencing him.

 

Drekkana lagna has Mars and Ketu, under Sun's aspect showing the agni

most clearly. Please refer to the standard texts such as Brihat

Jataka and Saravali, where great importance is placed on Drekkana

lagna for determination of character.

 

Also for stri jataka the ascendant in Trimsamsa is important, and in

your case Scorpio rises, aspected by Ketu, which again says the same

thing.

 

Further the Moon ascendant is also under the aspect of Mars and Sun.

And the Sun sits in his own fiery sign aspected by Ketu.

 

So dominance of fire is complete.

 

I do not think that the true light of jyotish is only the small

fraction of techniques that are known and practiced by the majority

of astrologers today and that you have become comfortable with using.

 

What is misleading to do is to dismiss the principles written in the

classics, especially the ones that are repeated numerously, as dogma.

Have you done an in depth study of Drekkana, like you have the rasi?

The rishis who have advocated their use such as Parasara and Jaimini

have done much more than briefly glance at their own chart and from

there passed judgement. Is your birth time even correct? Is it

hospital time? Maybe the problem is there?

 

Or maybe the head problem hasn't occurred yet! Mars and Ketu

combination suggests a quick acting illness, such as an injury. I'd

look into this with other charts. It could help you out.

 

Take a look at Bruce Lee's drekkana. The ascendant lord Jupiter

ruling the head and brain exchanges with the 6th lord Sun. He sits in

the 6th with maraka Saturn, aspected by maraka 2nd lord Mars. During

Saturn cycle he had a sudden brain problem that killed him.

 

11/27/1940

7:12

San Fransisco

CA USA

 

regards,

 

Alex J

 

 

 

gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote:

> Again Dear Robert,

>

> This is seen clearly from the Rashi, Mars in 5th: Quick, sharp,

combative

> tendencies of the mind (ouch! guilty as charged). But this is not a

medical

> problem as you're suggesting via drekkana. Even Ketu in Lagna

hasn't given

> (touch wood) any "physical" problems related to head...what it has

given

> (during Ketu's periods) is worry, anxiety...that sort of thing.

>

> I think it's healthy for there to be checks and balances (which is

what

> these debates offer), otherwise the true light of jyotish (like

that of

> religion) can disappear under a heavy blanket of dogma.

>

> Peace Robert,

> Wendy

>

> You wrote:

> ==========

> There is obviously too much Agni afflicting the head region.

Impatience,

> anger, temperamental disposition, and argumentativeness are among

obvious

> symptoms.

>

> Best wishes,

> Robert

[Guest guest]

Wendy wrote:

 

At 02:26 PM 5/2/01 +0800, you wrote:

>Again Dear Robert,

>

>This is seen clearly from the Rashi, Mars in 5th: Quick, sharp, combative

>tendencies of the mind (ouch! guilty as charged). But this is not a medical

>problem as you're suggesting via drekkana. Even Ketu in Lagna hasn't given

>(touch wood) any "physical" problems related to head...what it has given

>(during Ketu's periods) is worry, anxiety...that sort of thing.

 

 

It will happen during the Vimsottari dasa of Ketu, in the form of injuries

or blows to the head, probably vehicular.

 

Further, it can be a medical problem, as there is an over-accentuated Pitta

dosha. Such things develop over time.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that Alex,

 

But let's try to get things right here so that we can (hopefully) move on to

something else. With Tattwa you're referring to body, personality, etc,

which again is deviating from the original discussion of Drekkana. But Okay,

let's stick with Tattwa then. Your statement that Ketu, due to ownership of

Scorpio is fiery, is not actually correct. Please read BPHS (R.Santhanam)

Chapter 3: and you will see that no elements have been awarded to the nodes,

however it does state that both Rahu and Ketu are windy in disposition (like

Saturn).

 

Further to this, you're really going off the mark by referring to Tattwa as

seen from the ascendant (lagna) and then bringing in divisional charts to

support your argument. If we're deciding on Tattwa in relation to Ascendant

(body, characteristics, etc), then PLEASE lets be fair and stick to Rashi

Okay.

 

In Rasi Capricorn rises; cold, windy vata sign, not fiery). Ketu in

Ascendant, again, cold, windy vata (not fiery). Jupiter aspects ascendant;

cold phlegmatic, element of ether (not fiery)...etc, etc, etc......

 

C'mon guys, let's not argue for argument's sake, bringing in all kinds of

nonsense to support your side. This sort of thing doesn't further the cause

of jyotish at all.

 

Regards

Wendy

 

 

Namaste Wendy,

 

Your agni Tattwa is not seen through planets in the 5th house. This

effects the mind, but rather agni tattwa is indicated through the

disposition of the ascendant which deals with the body and

personality overall.

 

In your case Ketu, who due to ownership of Scorpio, is fiery like

Mars, and sits in the ascendant. The other fiery planets, Mars in

Aries navamsa and Sun from Leo aspect the ascendant by rasi dristi,

giving a completely combatative personality.

 

In the Navamsa, the Sun rises. In both Rasi and Navamsa, Mars sits in

the 12th house from the ascendant lord, thereby influencing him.

 

Drekkana lagna has Mars and Ketu, under Sun's aspect showing the agni

most clearly. Please refer to the standard texts such as Brihat

Jataka and Saravali, where great importance is placed on Drekkana

lagna for determination of character.

 

Also for stri jataka the ascendant in Trimsamsa is important, and in

your case Scorpio rises, aspected by Ketu, which again says the same

thing.

 

Further the Moon ascendant is also under the aspect of Mars and Sun.

And the Sun sits in his own fiery sign aspected by Ketu.

 

So dominance of fire is complete.

 

I do not think that the true light of jyotish is only the small

fraction of techniques that are known and practiced by the majority

of astrologers today and that you have become comfortable with using.

 

What is misleading to do is to dismiss the principles written in the

classics, especially the ones that are repeated numerously, as dogma.

Have you done an in depth study of Drekkana, like you have the rasi?

The rishis who have advocated their use such as Parasara and Jaimini

have done much more than briefly glance at their own chart and from

there passed judgement. Is your birth time even correct? Is it

hospital time? Maybe the problem is there?

 

Or maybe the head problem hasn't occurred yet! Mars and Ketu

combination suggests a quick acting illness, such as an injury. I'd

look into this with other charts. It could help you out.

 

Take a look at Bruce Lee's drekkana. The ascendant lord Jupiter

ruling the head and brain exchanges with the 6th lord Sun. He sits in

the 6th with maraka Saturn, aspected by maraka 2nd lord Mars. During

Saturn cycle he had a sudden brain problem that killed him.

 

11/27/1940

7:12

San Fransisco

CA USA

 

regards,

 

Alex J

 

 

 

gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote:

> Again Dear Robert,

>

> This is seen clearly from the Rashi, Mars in 5th: Quick, sharp,

combative

> tendencies of the mind (ouch! guilty as charged). But this is not a

medical

> problem as you're suggesting via drekkana. Even Ketu in Lagna

hasn't given

> (touch wood) any "physical" problems related to head...what it has

given

> (during Ketu's periods) is worry, anxiety...that sort of thing.

>

> I think it's healthy for there to be checks and balances (which is

what

> these debates offer), otherwise the true light of jyotish (like

that of

> religion) can disappear under a heavy blanket of dogma.

>

> Peace Robert,

> Wendy

>

> You wrote:

> ==========

> There is obviously too much Agni afflicting the head region.

Impatience,

> anger, temperamental disposition, and argumentativeness are among

obvious

> symptoms.

>

> Best wishes,

> Robert

 

 

 

gjlist-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

At 10:15 AM 5/3/01 +0800, you wrote:

>Robert wrote:

>

>It will happen during the Vimsottari dasa of Ketu, in the form of injuries

>or blows to the head, probably vehicular.

>

>MY REPLY: Now that's something to really look forward to Robert...how

>unethical of you to stoop so low (doom and gloom) to make a point. Do you

>deliver this kind of negative prediction to your clients as well?

 

Wendy, for the sake of everybody on this list, please try not to be so

reactionary whenever somebody disagrees with you, or says something you do

not like. And if you do disagree, lets drop the insinuations of the other

person's opinion as "misleading", "confusing", or "rendering disservice",

etc., OK? Thanks -

 

Now, for the point above: You made the statement that absolutely no medical

conditions were indicated by the malefic aspect to the Drekkana lagna in

your chart (representing the head region). I made the point, and Alex did

too, that Mars and Ketu rise in the Drekkana lagna. This shows

vulnerability in the areas of sudden injuries and accidents -- basic

interpretations of Jyotish principles. Mars/Ketu/Sun make Rashi drishti to

your natal lagna also. So you asked for the clarification, and you got

it. No, you don't take predictions of possible danger, as doom and gloom,

if you are in the right mentality to benefit from astrology. Instead, a

level-headed client would just become more careful, especially around

travel or vehicles, during the related dasas. So, you can interpret my

giving you this probable event as "stooping low", but you encouraged it all

the same. I don't see forewarnings as "unethical", but a very practical

use of the predictive science.

 

>Peace on the list Robert, please!

>Wendy

 

Those who make peace, get peace, Wendy (remember the teachings of Mahatma

Gandhi) :-)

 

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

760 NW Broken Arrow Rd.

Bend, OR. 97701-9037

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk