Trimsamsa/divisions of ascendant - Wendy

[Guest guest]

Namaste Wendy,

 

Santhanam's version of BPHS does not say that "both Rahu and Ketu are

windy in disposition". It says that Ketu is akin to Rahu, meaning

that they have similar qualities. However in other places in the text

several differences are made regarding the two. They are akin as they

are two halves of the same demon. Rahu is also said to be akin to

Saturn and Mars to Ketu. Mars has agni tattva.

 

WENDY: Further to this, you're really going off the mark by referring

to Tattwa as seen from the ascendant (lagna) and then bringing in

divisional charts to support your argument. If we're deciding on

Tattwa in relation to Ascendant (body, characteristics, etc), then

PLEASE lets be fair and stick to Rashi Okay.

 

REPLY: I am on the mark according to standard jyotish texts, which

ones support your argument? Most of the classics take information

regarding the "body, characteristics, etc" from several of the

divisions of the ascendant, primarily the rasi, navamsa, drekanna and

trimsamsa. I give a few examples below.

 

HORA SARA

 

"The native whose Ascendant falls in Aries Navamsha will be

mischievous, mean, will be weak sighted, not peaceful, bilious in

temperament, and sensuously disposed." etc.

 

SARAVALI

 

"FEATURES AND CHARACTER: The physical appearance will correspond to

the Navamsha Ascendant or the strongest of planets. It may also

correspond to the lord of the Navamsha occupied by the Moon."

 

"A native's complexion, disposition and appearance can be deduced

based on the rising Navamsha at birth."

 

SATYA JATAKAM

 

"The fortunes of a native are to be studied with reference to: (1)

the ascendant lord; (2) the lord of the ascendant in the Navamsha

diagram"

 

BPHS

 

"When the rising rashi or the rashi occupied by the Moon, is owned by

Jupiter, the female born in a Trimsamsha of Mars will be endowed with

many good qualities; she will be punschali if born in a Trimsamsha of

Venus; she will be well versed in many sciences if born in a

Trimsamsha of Mercury; she will be endowed with all good qualities if

born in a Trimsamsha of Jupiter; she will not indulge much in sexual

intercourse if born in a Trimsamsha of Saturn."

 

JATAKA PARIJATA

 

"The person born in an auspicious Drekkana will have rich and happy

sons, a lovely form, will be tender-hearted. The person born in a

mixed Drekkana will be ill-behaved, addicted to young women not his

own, of cruel aspect and fickle-minded."

 

SARAVALI

 

The following descriptions of the various decanates in signs show

that to get a true understanding of the rising sign, you must blend

the qualities of the several rising sign divisions.

 

"If the birth be in the second decanate of Sagittarius, one will be

expert in Shastras, be a good speaker, will perform hundred yagyas

(i.e. many sacrifices), will have knowledge of Mantras, be excellent

in disposition and will visit many shrines."

 

The second decanate of Sag is Aries, which gives something like a

Guru-Mangal yoga involving the ascendant. Hence the Brahmanical

description.

 

Here is a comparison of the first and third decanate of Aries. The

first is Aries decanate, the second Sagittarius. The effect of

Saggitarius on Aries is clearly seen.

 

"One born in the first decanate of Aries will be charitable, be a

thief, be splendorous, will have checkered prosperity, be fierce in

battle (or in quarrels), pleasing in appearance and will inflict

punishment on relatives."

 

"If born in the third decanate of Aries, he will be virtuous, will

fault others, be fickle minded, mighty, will serve a king, be

attached to his own men, be very righteous and honorable but not

learned."

 

ALSO rajayogas are seen from Navamsa and Drekkana as well as Rasi.

 

PHALA DEEPIKA

 

"When the lord of the rising Navamsha, of the rising Drekkana or of

the Ascendant be strong the native will be blessed with every comfort

of life, cheerful, equal to a king or a very fortunate ruler of the

earth."

 

BPHS

 

If the 3 Lagnas (i.e. natal Lagna, Hora Lagna, and Ghatik Lagna) are

occupied by planets in exaltation or in own rashi, or if the natal

Lagna, the Drekkana Lagna, and the Navamsha Lagna have exalted

planets, Raja Yoga is formed.

 

WENDY: "C'mon guys, let's not argue for argument's sake, bringing in

all kinds of nonsense to support your side. This sort of thing

doesn't further the cause of jyotish at all."

 

REPLY: I am not arguing just for argument's sake. It can only be very

basic jyotish if we ignore the divisional charts. They form the basis

of what is unique in jyotish. The following is pertinent:

 

SARAVALI "The effects of a horoscope should be predicted according to

the divisions of houses. Without knowing the strength of such lords,

one cannot lay even a step forward in the direction of astrology."

 

I personally cannot believe that any of the Rishis wrote "nonsense"

Parasara and Jaimini are far greater masters than I will ever dream

of being, and I only hope that one day I will attain .1% of their

knowledge of jyotish. That would be a life accomplishment.

 

So instead of dismissing the majority of their techniques, I try and

keep my mind open and attempt to understand them. In this way I hope

to further the cause of real jyotish.

 

regards,

 

Alex J

 

gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote:

> Thank you for that Alex,

>

> But let's try to get things right here so that we can (hopefully)

move on to

> something else. With Tattwa you're referring to body, personality,

etc,

> which again is deviating from the original discussion of Drekkana.

But Okay,

> let's stick with Tattwa then. Your statement that Ketu, due to

ownership of

> Scorpio is fiery, is not actually correct. Please read BPHS

(R.Santhanam)

> Chapter 3: and you will see that no elements have been awarded to

the nodes,

> however it does state that both Rahu and Ketu are windy in

disposition (like

> Saturn).

>

> Further to this, you're really going off the mark by referring to

Tattwa as

> seen from the ascendant (lagna) and then bringing in divisional

charts to

> support your argument. If we're deciding on Tattwa in relation to

Ascendant

> (body, characteristics, etc), then PLEASE lets be fair and stick to

Rashi

> Okay.

>

> In Rasi Capricorn rises; cold, windy vata sign, not fiery). Ketu in

> Ascendant, again, cold, windy vata (not fiery). Jupiter aspects

ascendant;

> cold phlegmatic, element of ether (not fiery)...etc, etc, etc......

>

> C'mon guys, let's not argue for argument's sake, bringing in all

kinds of

> nonsense to support your side. This sort of thing doesn't further

the cause

> of jyotish at all.

>

> Regards

> Wendy

>

>

> Namaste Wendy,

>

> Your agni Tattwa is not seen through planets in the 5th house. This

> effects the mind, but rather agni tattwa is indicated through the

> disposition of the ascendant which deals with the body and

> personality overall.

>

> In your case Ketu, who due to ownership of Scorpio, is fiery like

> Mars, and sits in the ascendant. The other fiery planets, Mars in

> Aries navamsa and Sun from Leo aspect the ascendant by rasi dristi,

> giving a completely combatative personality.

>

> In the Navamsa, the Sun rises. In both Rasi and Navamsa, Mars sits

in

> the 12th house from the ascendant lord, thereby influencing him.

>

> Drekkana lagna has Mars and Ketu, under Sun's aspect showing the

agni

> most clearly. Please refer to the standard texts such as Brihat

> Jataka and Saravali, where great importance is placed on Drekkana

> lagna for determination of character.

>

> Also for stri jataka the ascendant in Trimsamsa is important, and in

> your case Scorpio rises, aspected by Ketu, which again says the same

> thing.

>

> Further the Moon ascendant is also under the aspect of Mars and Sun.

> And the Sun sits in his own fiery sign aspected by Ketu.

>

> So dominance of fire is complete.

>

> I do not think that the true light of jyotish is only the small

> fraction of techniques that are known and practiced by the majority

> of astrologers today and that you have become comfortable with

using.

>

> What is misleading to do is to dismiss the principles written in the

> classics, especially the ones that are repeated numerously, as

dogma.

> Have you done an in depth study of Drekkana, like you have the rasi?

> The rishis who have advocated their use such as Parasara and Jaimini

> have done much more than briefly glance at their own chart and from

> there passed judgement. Is your birth time even correct? Is it

> hospital time? Maybe the problem is there?

>

> Or maybe the head problem hasn't occurred yet! Mars and Ketu

> combination suggests a quick acting illness, such as an injury. I'd

> look into this with other charts. It could help you out.

>

> Take a look at Bruce Lee's drekkana. The ascendant lord Jupiter

> ruling the head and brain exchanges with the 6th lord Sun. He sits

in

> the 6th with maraka Saturn, aspected by maraka 2nd lord Mars. During

> Saturn cycle he had a sudden brain problem that killed him.

>

> 11/27/1940

> 7:12

> San Fransisco

> CA USA

>

> regards,

>

> Alex J

>

>

>

> gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote:

> > Again Dear Robert,

> >

> > This is seen clearly from the Rashi, Mars in 5th: Quick, sharp,

> combative

> > tendencies of the mind (ouch! guilty as charged). But this is not

a

> medical

> > problem as you're suggesting via drekkana. Even Ketu in Lagna

> hasn't given

> > (touch wood) any "physical" problems related to head...what it has

> given

> > (during Ketu's periods) is worry, anxiety...that sort of thing.

> >

> > I think it's healthy for there to be checks and balances (which is

> what

> > these debates offer), otherwise the true light of jyotish (like

> that of

> > religion) can disappear under a heavy blanket of dogma.

> >

> > Peace Robert,

> > Wendy

> >

> > You wrote:

> > ==========

> > There is obviously too much Agni afflicting the head region.

> Impatience,

> > anger, temperamental disposition, and argumentativeness are among

> obvious

> > symptoms.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Robert

>

>

>

> gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Alex,

 

Thank you for your mail, but for the sake of harmony this will be the last

one I respond to on this matter, as it's just turning into a foolish

argument, and that doesn't serve anyone :-)

 

Alex, if you have BPHS handy, would you please turn to page 33 (chapter 3:

verse 30)...I quote for those who do not have a copy of the translation by

R. Santhanam:

 

"DESCRIPTION OF RAHU AND KETU: Rahu has smokey appearance with a blue-mix

physique. He resides in forests and is horrible. He is windy in temperament

and is intelligent. Ketu is akin to Rahu"

 

Please, please Alex, can we stop this bickering now. Let's just agree to

disagree amicably Alex and move on.

 

Regards

Wendy

 

 

YOU WROTE:

Namaste Wendy,

 

Santhanam's version of BPHS does not say that "both Rahu and Ketu are

windy in disposition". It says that Ketu is akin to Rahu, meaning

that they have similar qualities. However in other places in the text

several differences are made regarding the two. They are akin as they

are two halves of the same demon. Rahu is also said to be akin to

Saturn and Mars to Ketu. Mars has agni tattva.

[Guest guest]

Alex,

BTW in this particular chapter the sage was describing the different

temperaments of all the planets, so there can be no doubt as to what he was

referring to in his description of Rahu and Ketu. In verse 34 (for instance)

he describes Moon as being both windy and phlegmatic (vata/kapha). I don't

know about you Alex, but I certainly have studied this area of jyotish in

depth.

 

Peace...Wendy

 

 

PREVIOUS POST:

Dear Alex,

 

Thank you for your mail, but for the sake of harmony this will be the last

one I respond to on this matter, as it's just turning into a foolish

argument, and that doesn't serve anyone :-)

 

Alex, if you have BPHS handy, would you please turn to page 33 (chapter 3:

verse 30)...I quote for those who do not have a copy of the translation by

R. Santhanam:

 

"DESCRIPTION OF RAHU AND KETU: Rahu has smokey appearance with a blue-mix

physique. He resides in forests and is horrible. He is windy in temperament

and is intelligent. Ketu is akin to Rahu"

 

Please, please Alex, can we stop this bickering now. Let's just agree to

disagree amicably Alex and move on.

 

Regards

Wendy

[Guest guest]

Apologies:

 

That should read verse 24.

 

==========================

 

Alex,

BTW in this particular chapter the sage was describing the different

temperaments of all the planets, so there can be no doubt as to what he was

referring to in his description of Rahu and Ketu. In verse 34 (for instance)

he describes Moon as being both windy and phlegmatic (vata/kapha). I don't

know about you Alex, but I certainly have studied this area of jyotish in

depth.

 

Peace...Wendy

[Guest guest]

Namaste Wendy,

 

Thank you for your quotation, but you did not address the bulk of the

email. I assume by your nonresponse that you agree with the classics

that you must judge character and physical appearance from the

divisions of the 1st house.

 

Regardless if Ketu acts like Rahu or Mars, there is still the full

aspect of a strong Sun (Pitta) from Leo (Pitta), and Mars (Pitta)

from Aries (pitta) navamsa on your ascendant.

 

I agree with stopping the debate, as you do not wish to continue. But

in closing I would like to point out here that when you decide you no

longer wish to continue with a debate, you don't need to make it seem

that I or anyone else is doing a diservice to the list by disagreeing

with you.

 

WENDY: "but for the sake of harmony this will be the last one I

respond to on this matter, as it's just turning into a foolish

argument, and that doesn't serve anyone..."

 

"please Alex, can we stop this bickering now..."

 

"C'mon guys, let's not argue for argument's sake, bringing in all

kinds of nonsense to support your side. This sort of thing doesn't

further the cause of jyotish at all."

 

Debate, discussion and disagreement is how knowledge is developed in

a forum such as this, through criticial examination of different

views on the subject. There is no need to be dictatorial by bullyig

with words and attempting to discredit the other party when they

don't agree.

 

I like the fact that you used a textual support for your point this

time. This is the nature in which you should close a debate, in an

educated manner, not through slander, which only causes the

furthering of negative thoughts.

 

regards,

 

ALex J

 

 

 

gjlist, "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas@o...> wrote:

> Dear Alex,

>

> Thank you for your mail, but for the sake of harmony this will be

the last

> one I respond to on this matter, as it's just turning into a foolish

> argument, and that doesn't serve anyone :-)

>

> Alex, if you have BPHS handy, would you please turn to page 33

(chapter 3:

> verse 30)...I quote for those who do not have a copy of the

translation by

> R. Santhanam:

>

> "DESCRIPTION OF RAHU AND KETU: Rahu has smokey appearance with a

blue-mix

> physique. He resides in forests and is horrible. He is windy in

temperament

> and is intelligent. Ketu is akin to Rahu"

>

> Please, please Alex, can we stop this bickering now. Let's just

agree to

> disagree amicably Alex and move on.

>

> Regards

> Wendy

>

>

> YOU WROTE:

> Namaste Wendy,

>

> Santhanam's version of BPHS does not say that "both Rahu and Ketu

are

> windy in disposition". It says that Ketu is akin to Rahu, meaning

> that they have similar qualities. However in other places in the

text

> several differences are made regarding the two. They are akin as

they

> are two halves of the same demon. Rahu is also said to be akin to

> Saturn and Mars to Ketu. Mars has agni tattva.