Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Hey all, I have been considering purchasing a vedic astrology software package and would like to know what you all think is the best. A healthy discussion between a few of the most popular would be great. I am assuming that there will be a lot of support for the "host" of this list (well, his program anyway) and that is great...but I am hoping for some reasons why any program is better then others (naming names would be helpful). I have heard great things about Gorvani, Kala and two others.... What does everyone think....AND WHY ! Thanks in advance for your efforts. Scott MacDonald scottmd1 248.212.7588 goravani [goravani] Friday, May 11, 2001 11:16 PM gjlist [gjlist] Upayas & Yagyas, one overview To truly correct a problem, which is the essence of life, or learning lessons, one has to admit there is a problem, then make a plan, make the changes necessary, keep up or maintain the new way of the thing, then the change can be complete. In ourselves, Saturn represents truth coming to purify us of attachments and other problems. As we accept the truth, and the conclusion of our difficulties, or accept the lesson that is, then we "get it", and are fixed. To truly be of benefit, an Upaya will be an activity which after or while doing, one receives the benefit of purification from some bad quality in themselves, or relief of some ill fate coming to them from the environment. In the first case, the self will, self awareness, self process, all come into question, and are called to improve. An actual change in a personal issue problem will result in actual change in attitude, lifestyle issues, whatever is involved. If it is not so, then there really was no change and thus there really will be no relief. In the second case, we are talking about a kindof magic, or religious issue, in that a change can only be effected by the removal or change of factors in the environment or others, not something within us. In this case, you are requesting divine intervention more or less. Upa or instruction is really aimed at changing things about ourselves. Puja, Some Yantra and some Tantric practices, are aimed at gathering divine help with problems. In this case, one must question how is that divinity can be bought? Is it with Puja itself, which only costs money and some paid Brahmins time, or is the devotion that goes along with that act of arranging a Puja or Yagya, and so on. In this way, one will have to do some self examination, some examination of one's thoughts and motives around using "divine phoning". But we can always apply more goodness inside ourselves, so in one sense, Upaya is free, in that it is mostly self process, self change, self examination, and calls upon the effects of things like Sadhana (practices), Japa (praying), Meditation (reflection and acceptance), Arca Vigraha (deity worship or alignment with divinity), Hatha Yoga (focus on organism level health), and so on. To accept self change in the first place, as a valid pursuit, shows greater acceptance of the process of Saturn's effects, whereas to "reach out" for "the change" to be elsewhere, shows greater Self Will rather than acceptance, and leaves room for the ego to survive, whereas Upaya is heavily based on the dismantling of the separate ego. So the process of Puja and Yagya is often more frought with remaining spiritual issues actually, whereas Upaya is free from this defect, being focused inward, rather than outward. These are the masculine and feminine sides of "Hindu Fixes" for our ills, and they are found just like this in all religions really. There is always the "will to fight on" and the wisdom to "back down when beat". To decide what is what in life actually, is the game of truth and wisdom unfolding within us. As my Gurudev once explained: Two great devotees are there in the scripture we know by name: Arjuna and Udhava. They are both extremely dear to Krishna, his close personal friends. Both of them heard the Gita more or less the same, one is captured in the Bhagavat as the "Udhava Gita" (the 11th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam) and the other is the famous "Gita", which is Arjuna and Krishna, which is a chapter from the Mahabharat historical classic by Vyas. So both of these "chapters" are spoken by Krishna to a close friend, both around the same time, and both were aware of the same events. One chose to fight to the end (Arjuna) and the other fled the entire battle altogether. Both were right, but simply having two types of understanding of the imports meant by the same exact teachings from the same teacher, in this case Krishna himself. In so many ways we are always at war, such as we are at war with the elements, which threaten us, at war with bugs, at war with our inner problems, at war with each other over issues... When to push our will, and when to accept, is the art of movement. Is moving forward better aided by deflecting energy that might oppose me (Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do), or by directly confronting and trying to dismantle the obstacle to pieces (Karate), or by a mixture of these two (Kung Fu). How much should our will to eat what we like dicate what we eat, verse our knowledge which tells us what is good for our organism. One of these is "purush" in that it underlies the "being" the "subject" or "enjoyer", purush literally meaning "the person", and the other approach is prakriti, or submissive, discipling by nature, humble, seeking to learn from up to down, rather than conquer down to up. The conquerer ignores the truth, imposese his will, and suffers the disease of his wrong approach, and the yogi, or cooperator, the linker, enjoys the benefits of full health due to cooperating with the Kshetra as if it is the boss, because it represents the whole impersonally, without the "taste and likings" we carry due to conditioning. So Upayas real aim is to give instructions to the Sishya, the disciple, which discuss remedies or approaches, inner work technologies actually, which aid the practitioner (a humble disciplic or feminine word, non-purush, prakriti based), in their achievement of release from what ills them, which is always going to be the imbalances caused by false ego or false identification of the self as enjoyer, then identifying enjoyment based on the impulses of the current set of senses, which are always imbalanced by nature we see from applying simple eyesight to all HUMAN beings around us, and voila, you must see that the Purush approach does not actually work for the human. It clearly does not lead to health and goodness. (note, this is not at all referring to any class or group of classes offered by the TM movement going by this name- I'm referring to the root Sanskrit meanings of these words, not any offerings of any group at all). Hence, the real lesson of life is humility, connection, yoga, service, all of these things are included in real understanding of the whole "Yoga System" which is taught throughtout the range of books. To become a knower of truth, a follower of life possible healthy habits which increase longevity, not decrease it, and to be a radiant storehouse of love for all others, of knowledge to help them, of the attitudes to show the example for maintaining a healthy outlook, knowledge base, lifestyle, etc., all these things form health caused by the feminine approach of humility to what is, which is the process of Yoga. To fight this, is "Asuric", and "Tamasic" or based in "Ignorance" which means "to ignore reality". So ignorance is the breeding ground of "freedom" from "truth". In order to be free from truth, and thus enjoy illusions fully, there must be ignorance. God provides this as much as you need it to emotionally survive where you are in the path towards full awareness. Upayas teach us truth, and thus can be shocking wake ups. Sometimes really getting with a real light worker means to receive instructions in how to change, to be a more full being. This can be hard, like breaking old habits. Whereas simply paying thousands for someone else to do some work which will hopefully cause divine intervention is altogether another approach. In properly situated religiously based trible society, such as in Vedic culture, there is the need to entertain and enlighten the group through the healthy act of collective worship of divinity. This is very healthy- singing, dancing, eating together, all in the name of the local understanding of the source of life and all that is, or divinity, local understanding version. This is so very healthy. So once everyone is adjusted, there will be Yagya and Puja as a matter of public activities for social interaction, fun, enlivenement, sharing of culture, worship of the Gods, etc. But to become adjusted, we may privately until then do these things in small groups, or personally, in order to "get there" personally, and as each part is fixed, the whole becomes fixed gradually in turn. Fixed being "a radiant source of love, and radiantly able to receive love". That is what we are. An interactive loving conscious unit. Everything else is detail. Upayas get us there quicker, by dealing with the root, whereas often personal Puja and Yagya is tainted with desire to maintain our particular slant on life in our current body. The riders of the fuller light may choose the former with confidence, unless they know the latter in their own case is what they choose to consciously do. Then it is their choice, and harms nobody, worships Gods, and thus is all good. So both are good. It's a choice. Male or female approach to improving our lives. Jiva is Prakriti, please make a note of it. This alone gives us a hint as to which is actually more correct for us. I feel bad writing these things, as I am not really doing any of this myself nicely. I'm hoping understanding will lead me to a good place eventually. raghu gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Hi Scott I have been using GJ for about a year and a half now and I can honestly say I am still amazed at the versatility of the program. I have been anxiously waiting for his next program. His price is more then fair for what your getting. ................. Noel Scott MacDonald wrote: > Hey all, > > I have been considering purchasing a vedic astrology software package and > would like to know what you all think is the best. A healthy discussion > between a few of the most popular would be great. I am assuming that there > will be a lot of support for the "host" of this list (well, his program > anyway) and that is great...but I am hoping for some reasons why any program > is better then others (naming names would be helpful). > > I have heard great things about Gorvani, Kala and two others.... > > What does everyone think....AND WHY ! > > Thanks in advance for your efforts. > > Scott MacDonald > scottmd1 > 248.212.7588 > > > goravani [goravani] > Friday, May 11, 2001 11:16 PM > gjlist > [gjlist] Upayas & Yagyas, one overview > > To truly correct a problem, which is the essence of life, or learning > lessons, one has to admit there is a problem, then make a plan, make the > changes necessary, keep up or maintain the new way of the thing, then the > change can be complete. > > In ourselves, Saturn represents truth coming to purify us of attachments and > other problems. As we accept the truth, and the conclusion of our > difficulties, or accept the lesson that is, then we "get it", and are fixed. > > To truly be of benefit, an Upaya will be an activity which after or while > doing, one receives the benefit of purification from some bad quality in > themselves, or relief of some ill fate coming to them from the environment. > > In the first case, the self will, self awareness, self process, all come > into > question, and are called to improve. An actual change in a personal issue > problem will result in actual change in attitude, lifestyle issues, whatever > is involved. If it is not so, then there really was no change and thus there > really will be no relief. > > In the second case, we are talking about a kindof magic, or religious issue, > in that a change can only be effected by the removal or change of factors in > the environment or others, not something within us. In this case, you are > requesting divine intervention more or less. > > Upa or instruction is really aimed at changing things about ourselves. Puja, > Some Yantra and some Tantric practices, are aimed at gathering divine help > with problems. In this case, one must question how is that divinity can be > bought? Is it with Puja itself, which only costs money and some paid > Brahmins time, or is the devotion that goes along with that act of arranging > a Puja or Yagya, and so on. In this way, one will have to do some self > examination, some examination of one's thoughts and motives around using > "divine phoning". > > But we can always apply more goodness inside ourselves, so in one sense, > Upaya is free, in that it is mostly self process, self change, self > examination, and calls upon the effects of things like Sadhana (practices), > Japa (praying), Meditation (reflection and acceptance), Arca Vigraha (deity > worship or alignment with divinity), Hatha Yoga (focus on organism level > health), and so on. > > To accept self change in the first place, as a valid pursuit, shows greater > acceptance of the process of Saturn's effects, whereas to "reach out" for > "the change" to be elsewhere, shows greater Self Will rather than > acceptance, > and leaves room for the ego to survive, whereas Upaya is heavily based on > the > dismantling of the separate ego. > > So the process of Puja and Yagya is often more frought with remaining > spiritual issues actually, whereas Upaya is free from this defect, being > focused inward, rather than outward. These are the masculine and feminine > sides of "Hindu Fixes" for our ills, and they are found just like this in > all > religions really. There is always the "will to fight on" and the wisdom to > "back down when beat". To decide what is what in life actually, is the game > of truth and wisdom unfolding within us. > > As my Gurudev once explained: > > Two great devotees are there in the scripture we know by name: Arjuna and > Udhava. They are both extremely dear to Krishna, his close personal friends. > > Both of them heard the Gita more or less the same, one is captured in the > Bhagavat as the "Udhava Gita" (the 11th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam) and > the other is the famous "Gita", which is Arjuna and Krishna, which is a > chapter from the Mahabharat historical classic by Vyas. > > So both of these "chapters" are spoken by Krishna to a close friend, both > around the same time, and both were aware of the same events. One chose to > fight to the end (Arjuna) and the other fled the entire battle altogether. > Both were right, but simply having two types of understanding of the imports > meant by the same exact teachings from the same teacher, in this case > Krishna > himself. > > In so many ways we are always at war, such as we are at war with the > elements, which threaten us, at war with bugs, at war with our inner > problems, at war with each other over issues... > > When to push our will, and when to accept, is the art of movement. Is moving > forward better aided by deflecting energy that might oppose me (Tai Chi, Tae > Kwon Do), or by directly confronting and trying to dismantle the obstacle to > pieces (Karate), or by a mixture of these two (Kung Fu). > > How much should our will to eat what we like dicate what we eat, verse our > knowledge which tells us what is good for our organism. One of these is > "purush" in that it underlies the "being" the "subject" or "enjoyer", purush > literally meaning "the person", and the other approach is prakriti, or > submissive, discipling by nature, humble, seeking to learn from up to down, > rather than conquer down to up. The conquerer ignores the truth, imposese > his > will, and suffers the disease of his wrong approach, and the yogi, or > cooperator, the linker, enjoys the benefits of full health due to > cooperating > with the Kshetra as if it is the boss, because it represents the whole > impersonally, without the "taste and likings" we carry due to conditioning. > > So Upayas real aim is to give instructions to the Sishya, the disciple, > which > discuss remedies or approaches, inner work technologies actually, which aid > the practitioner (a humble disciplic or feminine word, non-purush, prakriti > based), in their achievement of release from what ills them, which is always > going to be the imbalances caused by false ego or false identification of > the > self as enjoyer, then identifying enjoyment based on the impulses of the > current set of senses, which are always imbalanced by nature we see from > applying simple eyesight to all HUMAN beings around us, and voila, you must > see that the Purush approach does not actually work for the human. It > clearly > does not lead to health and goodness. (note, this is not at all referring to > any class or group of classes offered by the TM movement going by this name- > I'm referring to the root Sanskrit meanings of these words, not any > offerings > of any group at all). > > Hence, the real lesson of life is humility, connection, yoga, service, all > of > these things are included in real understanding of the whole "Yoga System" > which is taught throughtout the range of books. To become a knower of truth, > a follower of life possible healthy habits which increase longevity, not > decrease it, and to be a radiant storehouse of love for all others, of > knowledge to help them, of the attitudes to show the example for maintaining > a healthy outlook, knowledge base, lifestyle, etc., all these things form > health caused by the feminine approach of humility to what is, which is the > process of Yoga. > > To fight this, is "Asuric", and "Tamasic" or based in "Ignorance" which > means > "to ignore reality". So ignorance is the breeding ground of "freedom" from > "truth". In order to be free from truth, and thus enjoy illusions fully, > there must be ignorance. God provides this as much as you need it to > emotionally survive where you are in the path towards full awareness. > > Upayas teach us truth, and thus can be shocking wake ups. Sometimes really > getting with a real light worker means to receive instructions in how to > change, to be a more full being. This can be hard, like breaking old habits. > Whereas simply paying thousands for someone else to do some work which will > hopefully cause divine intervention is altogether another approach. > > In properly situated religiously based trible society, such as in Vedic > culture, there is the need to entertain and enlighten the group through the > healthy act of collective worship of divinity. This is very healthy- > singing, > dancing, eating together, all in the name of the local understanding of the > source of life and all that is, or divinity, local understanding version. > This is so very healthy. > > So once everyone is adjusted, there will be Yagya and Puja as a matter of > public activities for social interaction, fun, enlivenement, sharing of > culture, worship of the Gods, etc. But to become adjusted, we may privately > until then do these things in small groups, or personally, in order to "get > there" personally, and as each part is fixed, the whole becomes fixed > gradually in turn. Fixed being "a radiant source of love, and radiantly able > to receive love". > > That is what we are. An interactive loving conscious unit. Everything else > is > detail. Upayas get us there quicker, by dealing with the root, whereas often > personal Puja and Yagya is tainted with desire to maintain our particular > slant on life in our current body. The riders of the fuller light may choose > the former with confidence, unless they know the latter in their own case is > what they choose to consciously do. Then it is their choice, and harms > nobody, worships Gods, and thus is all good. So both are good. It's a > choice. > Male or female approach to improving our lives. > > Jiva is Prakriti, please make a note of it. This alone gives us a hint as to > which is actually more correct for us. > > I feel bad writing these things, as I am not really doing any of this myself > nicely. I'm hoping understanding will lead me to a good place eventually. > > raghu > > > gjlist- > > Your use of is subject to > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Dear Scott, Please check out my Vedic Astro Software at www.zodiaccomputers.com G Kumar Vedic Astrologer http://www.zodiaccomputers.com - Scott MacDonald <scottmd1 <gjlist> Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:21 AM [gjlist] Vedic Astrology Programs > Hey all, > > I have been considering purchasing a vedic astrology software package and > would like to know what you all think is the best. A healthy discussion > between a few of the most popular would be great. I am assuming that there > will be a lot of support for the "host" of this list (well, his program > anyway) and that is great...but I am hoping for some reasons why any program > is better then others (naming names would be helpful). > > I have heard great things about Gorvani, Kala and two others.... > > What does everyone think....AND WHY ! > > Thanks in advance for your efforts. > > Scott MacDonald > scottmd1 > 248.212.7588 > > > goravani [goravani] > Friday, May 11, 2001 11:16 PM > gjlist > [gjlist] Upayas & Yagyas, one overview > > > To truly correct a problem, which is the essence of life, or learning > lessons, one has to admit there is a problem, then make a plan, make the > changes necessary, keep up or maintain the new way of the thing, then the > change can be complete. > > In ourselves, Saturn represents truth coming to purify us of attachments and > other problems. As we accept the truth, and the conclusion of our > difficulties, or accept the lesson that is, then we "get it", and are fixed. > > To truly be of benefit, an Upaya will be an activity which after or while > doing, one receives the benefit of purification from some bad quality in > themselves, or relief of some ill fate coming to them from the environment. > > In the first case, the self will, self awareness, self process, all come > into > question, and are called to improve. An actual change in a personal issue > problem will result in actual change in attitude, lifestyle issues, whatever > is involved. If it is not so, then there really was no change and thus there > really will be no relief. > > In the second case, we are talking about a kindof magic, or religious issue, > in that a change can only be effected by the removal or change of factors in > the environment or others, not something within us. In this case, you are > requesting divine intervention more or less. > > Upa or instruction is really aimed at changing things about ourselves. Puja, > Some Yantra and some Tantric practices, are aimed at gathering divine help > with problems. In this case, one must question how is that divinity can be > bought? Is it with Puja itself, which only costs money and some paid > Brahmins time, or is the devotion that goes along with that act of arranging > a Puja or Yagya, and so on. In this way, one will have to do some self > examination, some examination of one's thoughts and motives around using > "divine phoning". > > But we can always apply more goodness inside ourselves, so in one sense, > Upaya is free, in that it is mostly self process, self change, self > examination, and calls upon the effects of things like Sadhana (practices), > Japa (praying), Meditation (reflection and acceptance), Arca Vigraha (deity > worship or alignment with divinity), Hatha Yoga (focus on organism level > health), and so on. > > To accept self change in the first place, as a valid pursuit, shows greater > acceptance of the process of Saturn's effects, whereas to "reach out" for > "the change" to be elsewhere, shows greater Self Will rather than > acceptance, > and leaves room for the ego to survive, whereas Upaya is heavily based on > the > dismantling of the separate ego. > > So the process of Puja and Yagya is often more frought with remaining > spiritual issues actually, whereas Upaya is free from this defect, being > focused inward, rather than outward. These are the masculine and feminine > sides of "Hindu Fixes" for our ills, and they are found just like this in > all > religions really. There is always the "will to fight on" and the wisdom to > "back down when beat". To decide what is what in life actually, is the game > of truth and wisdom unfolding within us. > > As my Gurudev once explained: > > Two great devotees are there in the scripture we know by name: Arjuna and > Udhava. They are both extremely dear to Krishna, his close personal friends. > > Both of them heard the Gita more or less the same, one is captured in the > Bhagavat as the "Udhava Gita" (the 11th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam) and > the other is the famous "Gita", which is Arjuna and Krishna, which is a > chapter from the Mahabharat historical classic by Vyas. > > So both of these "chapters" are spoken by Krishna to a close friend, both > around the same time, and both were aware of the same events. One chose to > fight to the end (Arjuna) and the other fled the entire battle altogether. > Both were right, but simply having two types of understanding of the imports > meant by the same exact teachings from the same teacher, in this case > Krishna > himself. > > In so many ways we are always at war, such as we are at war with the > elements, which threaten us, at war with bugs, at war with our inner > problems, at war with each other over issues... > > When to push our will, and when to accept, is the art of movement. Is moving > forward better aided by deflecting energy that might oppose me (Tai Chi, Tae > Kwon Do), or by directly confronting and trying to dismantle the obstacle to > pieces (Karate), or by a mixture of these two (Kung Fu). > > How much should our will to eat what we like dicate what we eat, verse our > knowledge which tells us what is good for our organism. One of these is > "purush" in that it underlies the "being" the "subject" or "enjoyer", purush > literally meaning "the person", and the other approach is prakriti, or > submissive, discipling by nature, humble, seeking to learn from up to down, > rather than conquer down to up. The conquerer ignores the truth, imposese > his > will, and suffers the disease of his wrong approach, and the yogi, or > cooperator, the linker, enjoys the benefits of full health due to > cooperating > with the Kshetra as if it is the boss, because it represents the whole > impersonally, without the "taste and likings" we carry due to conditioning. > > So Upayas real aim is to give instructions to the Sishya, the disciple, > which > discuss remedies or approaches, inner work technologies actually, which aid > the practitioner (a humble disciplic or feminine word, non-purush, prakriti > based), in their achievement of release from what ills them, which is always > going to be the imbalances caused by false ego or false identification of > the > self as enjoyer, then identifying enjoyment based on the impulses of the > current set of senses, which are always imbalanced by nature we see from > applying simple eyesight to all HUMAN beings around us, and voila, you must > see that the Purush approach does not actually work for the human. It > clearly > does not lead to health and goodness. (note, this is not at all referring to > any class or group of classes offered by the TM movement going by this name- > I'm referring to the root Sanskrit meanings of these words, not any > offerings > of any group at all). > > Hence, the real lesson of life is humility, connection, yoga, service, all > of > these things are included in real understanding of the whole "Yoga System" > which is taught throughtout the range of books. To become a knower of truth, > a follower of life possible healthy habits which increase longevity, not > decrease it, and to be a radiant storehouse of love for all others, of > knowledge to help them, of the attitudes to show the example for maintaining > a healthy outlook, knowledge base, lifestyle, etc., all these things form > health caused by the feminine approach of humility to what is, which is the > process of Yoga. > > To fight this, is "Asuric", and "Tamasic" or based in "Ignorance" which > means > "to ignore reality". So ignorance is the breeding ground of "freedom" from > "truth". In order to be free from truth, and thus enjoy illusions fully, > there must be ignorance. God provides this as much as you need it to > emotionally survive where you are in the path towards full awareness. > > Upayas teach us truth, and thus can be shocking wake ups. Sometimes really > getting with a real light worker means to receive instructions in how to > change, to be a more full being. This can be hard, like breaking old habits. > Whereas simply paying thousands for someone else to do some work which will > hopefully cause divine intervention is altogether another approach. > > In properly situated religiously based trible society, such as in Vedic > culture, there is the need to entertain and enlighten the group through the > healthy act of collective worship of divinity. This is very healthy- > singing, > dancing, eating together, all in the name of the local understanding of the > source of life and all that is, or divinity, local understanding version. > This is so very healthy. > > So once everyone is adjusted, there will be Yagya and Puja as a matter of > public activities for social interaction, fun, enlivenement, sharing of > culture, worship of the Gods, etc. But to become adjusted, we may privately > until then do these things in small groups, or personally, in order to "get > there" personally, and as each part is fixed, the whole becomes fixed > gradually in turn. Fixed being "a radiant source of love, and radiantly able > to receive love". > > That is what we are. An interactive loving conscious unit. Everything else > is > detail. Upayas get us there quicker, by dealing with the root, whereas often > personal Puja and Yagya is tainted with desire to maintain our particular > slant on life in our current body. The riders of the fuller light may choose > the former with confidence, unless they know the latter in their own case is > what they choose to consciously do. Then it is their choice, and harms > nobody, worships Gods, and thus is all good. So both are good. It's a > choice. > Male or female approach to improving our lives. > > Jiva is Prakriti, please make a note of it. This alone gives us a hint as to > which is actually more correct for us. > > I feel bad writing these things, as I am not really doing any of this myself > nicely. I'm hoping understanding will lead me to a good place eventually. > > raghu > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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