Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Hello All: I am interested to know of members experiences with any jyotish mantras, gems, charity giving, or other rememdial measures. As James Braha points out in his latest book, remedial measures are an important part of jyotish. Aside from a few anecdotes here and there, I haven't seen any thorough examinations of this subject. I'd appreciate hearing your stories, both good and bad, to help me understand more about this fascinating branch of jyotish. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2001 Report Share Posted August 4, 2001 Dear Chris, I can speak from my own experiences, and say with absolute certainty that remedial measures work, sometimes with amazing results. I think one of the less understood aspects that is often overlooked by those of us brought up in western culture, is the value of Divine Grace. When you understand that we are all conscious beings unfolding into our own greater Self, and that we are swimming in a veritable ocean of consciousness, you come to understand the importance of one's intention in approaching anything in life. It is important how you approach things, and as importantly how you let things approach you. If you ever keep the intention of uplifting other souls, you will find that the active ingredient of Divine Grace will imbue your remedial efforts and give the best results for all involved. Faith is often a misunderstood concept in the west as well, it is said, "a man is his faith." If you open yourself to the flow of grace that is always available, it will work with the same reliability and a tap, when you are in need of water. If one's intention is not dharmic in nature, but tainted with selfish concerns, arrogance, etc.....then the results will also be mediocre at best. The Bhagavad Gita has much to say about the nature of faith etc.. I wish you the best in your study....take care Respectfully, Don - "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill <gjlist> Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:43 AM [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > Hello All: > > I am interested to know of members experiences with any jyotish mantras, > gems, charity giving, or other rememdial measures. As James Braha points > out in his latest book, remedial measures are an important part of jyotish. > Aside from a few anecdotes here and there, I haven't seen any thorough > examinations of this subject. I'd appreciate hearing your stories, both > good and bad, to help me understand more about this fascinating branch of > jyotish. > > Chris > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Don: Thanks for replying. I wonder if you might fill me in on the specifics of your situation. You can do this off list if you would prefer. Chris At 03:21 PM 8/4/01 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Chris, >I can speak from my own experiences, and say with absolute certainty that >remedial measures work, sometimes with amazing results. I think one of the >less understood aspects that is often overlooked by those of us brought up >in western culture, is the value of Divine Grace. When you understand that >we are all conscious beings unfolding into our own greater Self, and that we >are swimming in a veritable ocean of consciousness, you come to understand >the importance of one's intention in approaching anything in life. It is >important how you approach things, and as importantly how you let things >approach you. If you ever keep the intention of uplifting other souls, you >will find that the active ingredient of Divine Grace will imbue your >remedial efforts and give the best results for all involved. >Faith is often a misunderstood concept in the west as well, it is said, "a >man is his faith." If you open yourself to the flow of grace that is always >available, it will work with the same reliability and a tap, when you are in >need of water. >If one's intention is not dharmic in nature, but tainted with selfish >concerns, arrogance, etc.....then the results will also be mediocre at best. >The Bhagavad Gita has much to say about the nature of faith etc.. >I wish you the best in your study....take care > >Respectfully, >Don > > >- >"Christopher Kevill" <ckevill ><gjlist> >Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:43 AM >[gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > > >> Hello All: >> >> I am interested to know of members experiences with any jyotish mantras, >> gems, charity giving, or other rememdial measures. As James Braha points >> out in his latest book, remedial measures are an important part of >jyotish. >> Aside from a few anecdotes here and there, I haven't seen any thorough >> examinations of this subject. I'd appreciate hearing your stories, both >> good and bad, to help me understand more about this fascinating branch of > >> jyotish. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> gjlist- >> >> >> >> Your use of is subject to >> >> >> > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Sri Ganeshaya namah: Dear Patrice, very interesting story, I`m looking forward for more like this....:-) (>>I have a couple of examples for you. First one:<<) Can you give your dates of birthday for study, please? Namaste, Volker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Chris, I have a couple of examples for you. First one: When I first began my study of Jyotish, I had my chart read by James Braha. He told me that (in my Rasi chart) my Moon and Venus are debilitated, and recommended that I do chanting, definitely to Venus, and even both planets. Venus in 2nd house, Virgo, with Saturn and Mars. I was and still am, in my Venus Mahadasha. I chanted consistently every morning for quite awhile, many months - nearly a year, and still love the subtle effects noticed whenever I am again chanting - while chanting, but also definitely in my life. One of the experiences from this I always attribute to chanting is the following: After growing up in southern California and then in Hawaii, and having fair skin, I go to skin doctors regularly to check any pre-cancerous skin problems that develop. Near my collar bone, I had a small area that was 'burned' by the skin doctor a number of times. Eventually, I developed a 'scar tissue' area there, quite small bump, lighter color than my skin and spoke to doctors about it. I was told they would have to either do an office visit to surgically remove it, or just leave it alone as there was no health issue involved. Removal only for cosmetic reasons. I left it alone for about 3 or 4 years. I don't like needles, knives, even doctors quite often, and was kind of in a 'preparation' mentally to have this removed finally about the same time as my reading with James. Following the reading, I began chanting to Venus as soon as timing was right to begin chanting. Almost immediately the bump started to grow smaller. This was nothing I was 'chanting for' or had any thought in any way that chanting would effect. Within just over a month it was completely gone. Even though this had nothing to do with why I was chanting, I do think that the chanting is why this occurred, as unimportant appearing and cosmetic as this is. When I next visited my doctor, he asked me what had happened, why there was no scar tissue. He is a particularly wonderful doctor and we have had conversations about diet, herbs, etc, over the years through our contact with his doctoring my family, although he is a very much so a traditional doctor in the sense of western doctors. He mainly grins and says "it can't hurt anything" kind of responses, but still I've always sensed he was more open and somewhat interested than some doctors when one of my children would have a positive response to something I was doing at home. When he asked about the bump, I braved the honest answer and told him that I believe it was from chanting. In his subtle response, I think I may have lost all thoughts of credibility I may have begun to have with him through the years, but he grinned and again said, "It can't hurt anything." He has no idea why it suddenly went away so quickly. I also experience many less outwardly dramatic effects, and the outward effects with this kind of thing, are difficult, to say the least, if not impossible to prove in any way. In my experience, however, chanting is definitely working and the reason for these effects. PS I now know these debilitations are canceled in my chart, but this was my experience while chanting Venus. Namaste, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Chris, I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. For the most part when I am suggesting for most westerners I recommend gemstones, depending one the afflictions revealed in the chart. For any chart the ascendant ruler is of supreme importance, so if it is not strong by placement or sign I will recommend a stone for the ascendant ruler. And also the ruler of the fifth house and the ninth house are important to access, as they are also the dharmic lords, and assist with one's life purpose. Then the moon must be carefully assessed to see if it is in anyway afflicted, and if so I recommend pearls or moonstone. I have also used yagnas for close friends of mine, and have picked a suitable time for it before starting, and have allowed them to also be present holding their intension as the offerings were made to the fire. I simply used a tape of Vedic Mantras chanted by Brahman Priests, along with holding the highest intention, and great reverence for the sacred rite. My ascendant actually falls in Pushya, and that happens to be the nakshatra that gives (brahmavarchasa shakti) the ability to create spiritual energy and I have felt this to be a boon, but any one can do a yagna. The results will always reflect the reverence you show the rite, the love with which you do it, and the intension of your will and how selfless it remains. I have used mantra repetition for many years and have my own inner experiences a couple of which can only be described as transcendental in nature. I have a Guru in the truest sense of the word, and that in itself has been one of the greatest remedial measures that I have experienced. *S* I have visited saints like Ammachi, and they often bring subtle changes, I know she has priests that will do planetary yagnas for people, prices vary. I think from my own experience the most effective means of remedial measure is love, holding the interests of others as being equal to one's own, and siding with dharma at every opportunity. No chart is a throw away chart, every chart is good for something, if it is not good for material gain, it may be good for spiritual gain. Few turn to the Divine after winning the lottery, but many do after suffering some kind of loss or after suffering in someway. I think it is important to always keep in mind that we ultimately here to move towards liberation, and not to get stuck in, or invested in the fleeting things of this world... I hope this may be of some help Chris, and if you want to get a copy of the tape of Vedic mantras I use please let me know and I will let you know where you can purchase one. Respectfully, Don - "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill <gjlist> Sunday, August 05, 2001 7:37 AM Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > Dear Don: > > Thanks for replying. I wonder if you might fill me in on the specifics of > your situation. You can do this off list if you would prefer. > > Chris > > > At 03:21 PM 8/4/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Dear Chris, > >I can speak from my own experiences, and say with absolute certainty that > >remedial measures work, sometimes with amazing results. I think one of the > >less understood aspects that is often overlooked by those of us brought up > >in western culture, is the value of Divine Grace. When you understand that > >we are all conscious beings unfolding into our own greater Self, and that we > >are swimming in a veritable ocean of consciousness, you come to understand > >the importance of one's intention in approaching anything in life. It is > >important how you approach things, and as importantly how you let things > >approach you. If you ever keep the intention of uplifting other souls, you > >will find that the active ingredient of Divine Grace will imbue your > >remedial efforts and give the best results for all involved. > >Faith is often a misunderstood concept in the west as well, it is said, "a > >man is his faith." If you open yourself to the flow of grace that is always > >available, it will work with the same reliability and a tap, when you are in > >need of water. > >If one's intention is not dharmic in nature, but tainted with selfish > >concerns, arrogance, etc.....then the results will also be mediocre at best. > >The Bhagavad Gita has much to say about the nature of faith etc.. > >I wish you the best in your study....take care > > > >Respectfully, > >Don > > > > > >- > >"Christopher Kevill" <ckevill > ><gjlist> > >Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:43 AM > >[gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > > > > > >> Hello All: > >> > >> I am interested to know of members experiences with any jyotish mantras, > >> gems, charity giving, or other rememdial measures. As James Braha points > >> out in his latest book, remedial measures are an important part of > >jyotish. > >> Aside from a few anecdotes here and there, I haven't seen any thorough > >> examinations of this subject. I'd appreciate hearing your stories, both > >> good and bad, to help me understand more about this fascinating branch of > > > >> jyotish. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> gjlist- > >> > >> > >> > >> Your use of is subject to > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Hi Patrice: Thank you for sharing that great story. It's a bit freaky, to say the least. > >I chanted consistently every morning for quite awhile, many months - nearly >a year, and still love the subtle effects noticed whenever I am again >chanting - while chanting, but also definitely in my life. So you chanted for one year and then stopped. Why did you decide to stop? And did you ever consider buying a gem or performing other types of remedial measures? >I also experience many less outwardly dramatic effects, and the outward >effects with this kind of thing, are difficult, to say the least, if not >impossible to prove in any way. In my experience, however, chanting is >definitely working and the reason for these effects. Right, this is definitely a tricky point when trying to assess whether or not remedial measure work. How to know that chanting was responsible since you can't relive that period of life without chanting. That's why I think the only way to show that remedial measures work is if they produce a fairly quick effect soon after starting them, as in your disappearing scar tissue. Although if you have a feeling that it's helped you in subtle ways, then that's good and I totally respect that too. > >PS I now know these debilitations are canceled in my chart, but this was my >experience while chanting Venus. Do you mean Venus is neechbanga because of Mercury's good placement? Maybe I should tell you that Braha dismisses this idea in his latest book! Chris > >Namaste, >Patrice > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Don: At 11:27 AM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Chris, >I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. Yes, I would love to hear them. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Chris, During the Rahu period of my life running from 05/26/1977 to 05/26/1995, I had several occasions where my life was in danger of serious harm, and even death. Rahu for me is in the third house (Virgo), which is aspected by a highly malefic Saturn, which is aspected by Mars, and even though Mars is my yoga karaka, it is still a natural malefic and enemy to Saturn. This created a cycle where I was surrounded by associates that were of the character that one would expect from this combination of planetary influences...i.e.... people addicted to drama, drugs, violence, and of the most ruthless nature. I could do nothing about changing the circumstances of my surroundings, so I had to start with my perception. I used mantra repetition and meditation daily. I did intense japa everyday, and along with the subtle uplifting affects I felt, I gained the ability to instantly feel the intensions of anyone who approached me. Often one's life depended on this ability. I also noticed if I vibrated with the energy of the mantra, I would affect the consciousness of those that came around me, or when I entered a room how the energy affected those around me. It can be subtle, but without a doubt, powerful and unmistakable. Without going into all the details of that period of my life, I am absolutely certain, without remedial measures, I would not be on this planet today. I think the best way to measure the effects of remedial measures is to try them for yourself and stay aware of the things that start to shift. Trying to convince someone of something is a losing proposition for the start, you can lay out a thousand examples, while they cling to their habitual doubts, and you have wasted your time. But if they really want to taste the nectar, they need only take a bite of the fruit. Respectfully, Don - "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill <gjlist> Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:59 PM Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > Don: > > At 11:27 AM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Dear Chris, > >I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. > > Yes, I would love to hear them. > > Chris > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Volker, >>>very interesting story, I`m looking forward for more like this....:-) Thanks, Volker, I will write another about my niece who is chanting to both Sun and Saturn. Less dramatic, but still shows the effects of chanting and her only exposure to Jyotish was when James Braha did a reading for her following the reading he did for me. She is the same one that I mentioned on an earlier note about transits, as she is currently in sade sati with exalted Moon in Taurus, Cancer rising. >>>Can you give your dates of birthday for study, please? My birth info: November 28, 1951, San Pedro, CA - 12:39 AM Namaste, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Dear Chris, >>>So you chanted for one year and then stopped. Why did you decide to stop? I didn't really consciously 'decide' to stop, but my schedule became very, very busy. We were also in major construction. So major that we had to completely move out and live in a hotel/motel for a month. And I was home schooling my youngest, etc, was giving cooking classes a couple times a week. I let my schedule get too crazy. I still did chant often but not consistently. I haven't chanted for a bit now, after a couple other suggestions for chanting from other people on the list that had a peak at my chart just in list conversations awhile ago. Alex had suggested the mrityunjaya mantra. I also had learned more and was questioning parts of my reading from James. Around the same time, found it interesting that other people suggested completely different chanting, etc. I very much enjoy chanting and doing it consistently each morning. I decided to wait until I could get more information from a very learned Jyotishi, that I was in line with his teaching, and therefore would have more faith in a reading from him/her. And also for a better time for consistency again. The list was talking a lot about remedies, chanting, yagyas and remedial measures, and I saw a lot of confusion and advice given, but I think it is very important and take remedial measures seriously. That said, I did have very good results with both Venus and Moon, and didn't feel any mis-service had been done by James, or that it wasn't correct or right that I was chanting to them. I just wanted to know more myself and the exact reasons behind recommendations, and have a clearer understanding of my Moon and Venus with respect to neecha bhanga in both cases. >>>And did you ever consider buying a gem or performing other types of remedial measures? For me, there is too much room for all kinds of things in buying a gem, besides the costs, that I would choose to put elsewhere with my family and children, education, etc., even 'charity' or a cause if I had the money to use on a gem, and I didn't feel it was something that would be anymore beneficial for myself than chanting. After being married for 14 years though, it is interesting that around this time and while chanting Venus and Moon, my husband did give me a diamond ring. This was Venus/Moon/Moon/Moon dasa. And literally two days before my Venus/Moon/Moon/Moon dasa, and while chanting Venus and Moon, my husband gave me a beautiful strand of pearls. These are not in 'remedial gem' form. With raising four children, my husband was not in any kind of habit of giving me these kinds of gifts. Interesting that these both came at this time. As far as other types of remedial measures, I was not in any position to consider having yagyas done, although James did suggest that I do that. And the disconnect is there in a way for me. I prefer to be engaged in a way. Again, I guess intuitively I feel the chanting is beneficial for me. Also, I have thought perhaps performing Puja would help as a remedy, similarly to the way meditation works, although it may not necessarily be done with the idea of 'remedy'. Not to say that yagyas do not work. I have heard many speak of great results with yagyas. I also think that music may work for me. Again, on the level of sound as I seem sensitive to that. And both chanting and music are naturally very enjoyable to me, which I think may tell us something about what we are drawn to may work best for us, perhaps. I do consciously choose to help or give in some instances with the knowledge of the planets and houses involved. I don't know if that is really remedial, but with a consciousness about them. I did this before Jyotish at times but without the knowledge of planets and houses, and now have an awareness of them when these things come up. Another thing I was doing, and still do at times, is just 'experiencing' the energy of Moon and Venus more. I wrote poems, art, etc... just for my own and to experience that exploration and time, energy, with them. >>>Do you mean Venus is neechbanga because of Mercury's good placement? Maybe I should tell you that Braha dismisses this idea in his latest book! Thanks, Chris. :-) ..... No, my reasons for neecha bhanga are: Moon - My moon occupies my 4th house. And my Moon is in the 9th house, Cancer, in Navamsa. If the debilitated planet is in an angle from the ascendant, then its debilitation is canceled (neecha bhanga). Or, if the same debilitated planet occupies a strong Navamsa position, then its cancellation becomes all the more factual. Still, for some periods of time, the debilitated Moon's effects are felt, such as wandering, or being hopeless, or being lack of emotional or physical support for periods of life. Venus - My Venus occupies 2nd house, with aspect of Jupiter in Pisces in eighth. Jupiter is exaltation lord for Venus. If the neecha planet is aspected/ conjoined with either its exaltation lord, or its debilitation lord, then there is a cancellation. If the lord of the debilitated planet is exalted, then too there is cancellation, or if the deb. planet occupies an exalted Navamsa, then too there is cancellation. -Both of these I have only recently learned. I have James Braha's earlier books. They were the first ones recommended to me on my first day of learning Jyotish. I have his latest on order to pick up this week and am looking forward to it. So, Chris, do you believe that what James dismisses to be so in your own experience? Namaste, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Don: >repetition and meditation daily. I did intense japa everyday, and along >with the subtle uplifting affects I felt, I gained the ability to instantly >feel the intensions of anyone who approached me. Right. Often one's life depended >on this ability. I also noticed if I vibrated with the energy of the >mantra, I would affect the consciousness of those that came around me, or >when I entered a room how the energy affected those around me. It can be >subtle, but without a doubt, powerful and unmistakable. Yes, and perhaps it gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of one's environment more effectively. This might be considered a "placebo effect" or it might be the mantra itself. Either way, it would help. Without going into >all the details of that period of my life, I am absolutely certain, without >remedial measures, I would not be on this planet today. I'm glad to hear that. >I think the best way to measure the effects of remedial measures is to try >them for yourself and stay aware of the things that start to shift. Trying >to convince someone of something is a losing proposition for the start, you >can lay out a thousand examples, while they cling to their habitual doubts, >and you have wasted your time. But if they really want to taste the nectar, >they need only take a bite of the fruit. I think you're right about the problems of showing proof, and yet because I'm a skeptical sort of person (but curious too!) I'm looking for evidence that it works. I mean, people spend thousands of dollars on gems for remedial measures, and no one knows if they work! I find this a bit troubling, because it can mean innocent people can get victimized by astrologers, especially those with a vested interest in the gem industry. But I agree that one should try it for oneself. My problem is that while I have started chanting as a result of reading the new Braha book, I know that things will likely get better for me anyway since I just moved into my Jupiter sub period. Certainly, I think my interest in remedial measures is likely because of my Jupiter period (and it's in the 12th house to boot!), and yet if things go better for me generally, then I'd be mistaken to think it was because of the chanting. all the best, Chris >Respectfully, >Don > >- >"Christopher Kevill" <ckevill ><gjlist> >Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:59 PM >Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > > >> Don: >> >> At 11:27 AM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >> >Dear Chris, >> >I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. >> >> Yes, I would love to hear them. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> gjlist- >> >> >> >> Your use of is subject to >> >> >> > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Patrice: At 01:11 AM 8/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Chris, > >>>>So you chanted for one year and then stopped. Why did you decide to >stop? > >I didn't really consciously 'decide' to stop, but my schedule became very, >very busy. We were also in major construction. So major that we had to >completely move out and live in a hotel/motel for a month. And I was home >schooling my youngest, etc, was giving cooking classes a couple times a >week. I let my schedule get too crazy. I still did chant often but not >consistently. Yeah, I know what you mean. I just chanted the Moon mantra while riding my bike. A different experience. > >I haven't chanted for a bit now, after a couple other suggestions for >chanting from other people on the list that had a peak at my chart just in >list conversations awhile ago. Alex had suggested the mrityunjaya mantra. > >I also had learned more and was questioning parts of my reading from James. >Around the same time, found it interesting that other people suggested >completely different chanting, etc. I very much enjoy chanting and doing it >consistently each morning. Exactly. This sort of thing drives me nuts. There are numerous different chants out there for each planet; which one works? I guess the faithful will answer they all do or the one you commit to in your heart and soul is the one that will work for you. That's hard to accept though for the vedic ones where the vibrations of the sounds are supposed to resonate with the energy of the planets. Correct pronunciation is important there. Different mantras will have entirely different vibrations. Braha himself tells me now that the ones in his books are "devotional" and had he known about the vedic ones (these ones are the 108 names of the planets given by Das a while back) he would have given those instead! Still, he's convinced that the devotional ones work as well. I decided to wait until I could get more >information from a very learned Jyotishi, that I was in line with his >teaching, and therefore would have more faith in a reading from him/her. And >also for a better time for consistency again. > >The list was talking a lot about remedies, chanting, yagyas and remedial >measures, and I saw a lot of confusion and advice given, but I think it is >very important and take remedial measures seriously. I'm open to them and I'm curious about them. But I'd like to know more about people's experiences with them before I do too much with them. > >After being married for 14 years though, it is interesting that around this >time and while chanting Venus and Moon, my husband did give me a diamond >ring. This was Venus/Moon/Moon/Moon dasa. Great. The reverse so to speak: if you're trying to remediate Venus, you're supposed to give a diamond to someone. > >And literally two days before my Venus/Moon/Moon/Moon dasa, and while >chanting Venus and Moon, my husband gave me a beautiful strand of pearls. Wow. I'm sure those helped. I know this one female professor whose chart I read had a very afflicted Moon. She was in the habit of wearing a pearl bracelet for aesthetic reasons. She told me that one day she wasn't wearing it and had to leave a faculty meeting out of frustration at a colleague. She couldn't take it any more! It was only after the fact that she realized she wasn't wearing the pearls that day. >As far as other types of remedial measures, I was not in any position to >consider having yagyas done, although James did suggest that I do that. And >the disconnect is there in a way for me. I prefer to be engaged in a way. Agreed. I would have to feel a part of it somehow. >Again, I guess intuitively I feel the chanting is beneficial for me. Also, I >have thought perhaps performing Puja would help as a remedy, similarly to >the way meditation works, although it may not necessarily be done with the >idea of 'remedy'. Not to say that yagyas do not work. I have heard many >speak of great results with yagyas. Right. Rick Houck told me he had a Mars yagya performed before his operation for Cancer a few years back. The question is, how to evaluate its effectiveness? Was it a failure because he's dead now or was it a success because he exceeded the average survival time for colon cancer patients? To me, this will always be the standard sort of problem with this stuff. > >I also think that music may work for me. Again, on the level of sound as I >seem sensitive to that. And both chanting and music are naturally very >enjoyable to me, which I think may tell us something about what we are drawn >to may work best for us, perhaps. I love music too. Is there a type of music, or key that is associated with each planet? Actually, it reminds me that sometimes I like to vary the pitch of the chant, just for fun, and make it into a little song. I have a feeling this isn't kosher, but I like to fool around with it anyway. >areness of them when these things come up. > >Another thing I was doing, and still do at times, is just 'experiencing' the >energy of Moon and Venus more. I wrote poems, art, etc... just for my own >and to experience that exploration and time, energy, with them. That's a good idea. Maybe you'd like to post a poem of two sometime? > >I have James Braha's earlier books. They were the first ones recommended to >me on my first day of learning Jyotish. I have his latest on order to pick >up this week and am looking forward to it. > >So, Chris, do you believe that what James dismisses to be so in your own >experience? I don't know. I respect his experience which is far greater than mine, but it's really hard to say. Most of jyotish is about little influences that add up to something. Saying that one of these little influences is wrong is a tough call. It would be hard to say one way or another. I tend to agree with him if only because there are so many ways to cancel the debilitation. I think 75% of debilitated planets are cancelled. Of course, that doesn't make them "normal". But then again, being debilitated isn't the end of the world either. You could actually make a case that debilitation isn't that big a deal, although I'm not about to do that. :-) Maybe we can talk more about it when you read the book. Chris > >Namaste, >Patrice > > > > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Dear Chris, Before I respond to your last message, I would like you get your birth data, that might better enable me to address your concerns more appropriately. Thanks... Respectfully, Don - "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill <gjlist> Monday, August 06, 2001 9:43 AM Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > Don: > > >repetition and meditation daily. I did intense japa everyday, and along > >with the subtle uplifting affects I felt, I gained the ability to instantly > >feel the intensions of anyone who approached me. > > Right. > > Often one's life depended > >on this ability. I also noticed if I vibrated with the energy of the > >mantra, I would affect the consciousness of those that came around me, or > >when I entered a room how the energy affected those around me. It can be > >subtle, but without a doubt, powerful and unmistakable. > > Yes, and perhaps it gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of > one's environment more effectively. This might be considered a "placebo > effect" or it might be the mantra itself. Either way, it would help. > > Without going into > >all the details of that period of my life, I am absolutely certain, without > >remedial measures, I would not be on this planet today. > > I'm glad to hear that. > > >I think the best way to measure the effects of remedial measures is to try > >them for yourself and stay aware of the things that start to shift. Trying > >to convince someone of something is a losing proposition for the start, you > >can lay out a thousand examples, while they cling to their habitual doubts, > >and you have wasted your time. But if they really want to taste the nectar, > >they need only take a bite of the fruit. > > I think you're right about the problems of showing proof, and yet because > I'm a skeptical sort of person (but curious too!) I'm looking for evidence > that it works. I mean, people spend thousands of dollars on gems for > remedial measures, and no one knows if they work! I find this a bit > troubling, because it can mean innocent people can get victimized by > astrologers, especially those with a vested interest in the gem industry. > > But I agree that one should try it for oneself. My problem is that while I > have started chanting as a result of reading the new Braha book, I know > that things will likely get better for me anyway since I just moved into my > Jupiter sub period. Certainly, I think my interest in remedial measures is > likely because of my Jupiter period (and it's in the 12th house to boot!), > and yet if things go better for me generally, then I'd be mistaken to think > it was because of the chanting. > > all the best, > > Chris > > >Respectfully, > >Don > > > >- > >"Christopher Kevill" <ckevill > ><gjlist> > >Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:59 PM > >Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > > > > > >> Don: > >> > >> At 11:27 AM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote: > >> >Dear Chris, > >> >I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. > >> > >> Yes, I would love to hear them. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> gjlist- > >> > >> > >> > >> Your use of is subject to > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Dear Chris, I must address your comments regarding a "placebo effect" and "perhaps it gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of one's environment more effectively". First of all from any other perspective except my own it could be considered a "placebo effect", but for anyone to try and assess my own experiences, better than I who lived them, seems rather presumptuous. I have spent several hundred dollars on gemstones for myself and others and have no regrets. There is a universal law that says in giving, we open ourselves to receive. If one goes through life with such fear of losing a few dollars, how can they hope to gain anything of value? If there are astrologers out there ripping people off, how long do you think they will last? I am certain they would be exposed and disgraced before very long and their careers finished. One of the essential principles upon which Vedic astrology is intricately woven in the principle of karma. The chart is the blueprint of the souls karmas, so how could one study this sacred science of light and hold to the fear of being scammed? No one could use this avenue simply for making money and depriving someone of what is rightfully theirs....its not possible. If one is not in this with the intension of uplifting souls, then they are in the wrong field of study. Whether we want to try something new or not will always be up to us, one can not make us do anything we don't want to do. Life is sometimes trail and error we can adjust as we go along, the only man who does not make a mistake is the one who never does anything. If you know what samskaras are (deep mental impressions), that follow us from life to life until we work on changing them, you might want to consider the possibility you have one related to doubt. How they work is that the energy is directed in such a way that the samskara looks for justification for its existence,i.e. it will seek out evidence to justify doubt, and there is always evidence available. If the samskara were one related to fear, it would look for evidence to not do something based on fear, "I am not going to cross that bridge, it could collapse". And depending on the strength of the samskara, one could actually become paralysed by it, such as people that are so full of fear that they are afraid to even leave their own homes..It happens. All we ever really have to support us is our own experience, and we are responsible for creating that experience, so this is the great privilege and responsibility of life. Respectfully, Don - "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill <gjlist> Monday, August 06, 2001 9:43 AM Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > Don: > > >repetition and meditation daily. I did intense japa everyday, and along > >with the subtle uplifting affects I felt, I gained the ability to instantly > >feel the intensions of anyone who approached me. > > Right. > > Often one's life depended > >on this ability. I also noticed if I vibrated with the energy of the > >mantra, I would affect the consciousness of those that came around me, or > >when I entered a room how the energy affected those around me. It can be > >subtle, but without a doubt, powerful and unmistakable. > > Yes, and perhaps it gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of > one's environment more effectively. This might be considered a "placebo > effect" or it might be the mantra itself. Either way, it would help. > > Without going into > >all the details of that period of my life, I am absolutely certain, without > >remedial measures, I would not be on this planet today. > > I'm glad to hear that. > > >I think the best way to measure the effects of remedial measures is to try > >them for yourself and stay aware of the things that start to shift. Trying > >to convince someone of something is a losing proposition for the start, you > >can lay out a thousand examples, while they cling to their habitual doubts, > >and you have wasted your time. But if they really want to taste the nectar, > >they need only take a bite of the fruit. > > I think you're right about the problems of showing proof, and yet because > I'm a skeptical sort of person (but curious too!) I'm looking for evidence > that it works. I mean, people spend thousands of dollars on gems for > remedial measures, and no one knows if they work! I find this a bit > troubling, because it can mean innocent people can get victimized by > astrologers, especially those with a vested interest in the gem industry. > > But I agree that one should try it for oneself. My problem is that while I > have started chanting as a result of reading the new Braha book, I know > that things will likely get better for me anyway since I just moved into my > Jupiter sub period. Certainly, I think my interest in remedial measures is > likely because of my Jupiter period (and it's in the 12th house to boot!), > and yet if things go better for me generally, then I'd be mistaken to think > it was because of the chanting. > > all the best, > > Chris > > >Respectfully, > >Don > > > >- > >"Christopher Kevill" <ckevill > ><gjlist> > >Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:59 PM > >Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > > > > > >> Don: > >> > >> At 11:27 AM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote: > >> >Dear Chris, > >> >I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. > >> > >> Yes, I would love to hear them. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> gjlist- > >> > >> > >> > >> Your use of is subject to > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 And to add another note here...for those of us who follow a universalist path meaning raised in more than one faith, exposed to a multi-cultural world and having a parent that pursued all kinds of holistic health subjects, 'faiths' etc....there are many paths that advocate the use of stones. Not in the sense of Jyotish but hey...obviously killing two birds with one 'stone' here <no pun intended..LOL> works for me. In the Yoruba faith, necklaces representing their Gods are given upon initiation and they range from 'cheap' to precious and semi-precious stones. Red for Chango (stones can be from coral, jasper, ruby, garnet), Green/black for Ellegua (Mercury...he keeps the 'roads open' and hates to be ignored), White for Oshun (gold too) and she is a Venus Goddess...one of fertility, wealth and passion. Diamonds apply here. Along the lines of the wiccan/pagan faith, stones are used in their rituals and they are a big believer in wearing stones for protection, psychic attunement, opening up one's self to love, peace...you name it ...whatever. Even Yogananda, I believe, spoke about the use of stones and astrology in Autobiography of a yogi. This 'stone' thing isn't just a practice amongst one group but amongst many groups for holistic (health/balance/protection) reasons. >>> vedicreadings 08/06/01 03:38PM >>> Dear Chris, I must address your comments regarding a "placebo effect" and "perhaps it gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of one's environment more effectively". First of all from any other perspective except my own it could be considered a "placebo effect", but for anyone to try and assess my own experiences, better than I who lived them, seems rather presumptuous. I have spent several hundred dollars on gemstones for myself and others and have no regrets. There is a universal law that says in giving, we open ourselves to receive. If one goes through life with such fear of losing a few dollars, how can they hope to gain anything of value? If there are astrologers out there ripping people off, how long do you think they will last? I am certain they would be exposed and disgraced before very long and their careers finished. One of the essential principles upon which Vedic astrology is intricately woven in the principle of karma. The chart is the blueprint of the souls karmas, so how could one study this sacred science of light and hold to the fear of being scammed? No one could use this avenue simply for making money and depriving someone of what is rightfully theirs....its not possible. If one is not in this with the intension of uplifting souls, then they are in the wrong field of study. Whether we want to try something new or not will always be up to us, one can not make us do anything we don't want to do. Life is sometimes trail and error we can adjust as we go along, the only man who does not make a mistake is the one who never does anything. If you know what samskaras are (deep mental impressions), that follow us from life to life until we work on changing them, you might want to consider the possibility you have one related to doubt. How they work is that the energy is directed in such a way that the samskara looks for justification for its existence,i.e. it will seek out evidence to justify doubt, and there is always evidence available. If the samskara were one related to fear, it would look for evidence to not do something based on fear, "I am not going to cross that bridge, it could collapse". And depending on the strength of the samskara, one could actually become paralysed by it, such as people that are so full of fear that they are afraid to even leave their own homes..It happens. All we ever really have to support us is our own experience, and we are responsible for creating that experience, so this is the great privilege and responsibility of life. Respectfully, Don - "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill <gjlist> Monday, August 06, 2001 9:43 AM Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > Don: > > >repetition and meditation daily. I did intense japa everyday, and along > >with the subtle uplifting affects I felt, I gained the ability to instantly > >feel the intensions of anyone who approached me. > > Right. > > Often one's life depended > >on this ability. I also noticed if I vibrated with the energy of the > >mantra, I would affect the consciousness of those that came around me, or > >when I entered a room how the energy affected those around me. It can be > >subtle, but without a doubt, powerful and unmistakable. > > Yes, and perhaps it gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of > one's environment more effectively. This might be considered a "placebo > effect" or it might be the mantra itself. Either way, it would help. > > Without going into > >all the details of that period of my life, I am absolutely certain, without > >remedial measures, I would not be on this planet today. > > I'm glad to hear that. > > >I think the best way to measure the effects of remedial measures is to try > >them for yourself and stay aware of the things that start to shift. Trying > >to convince someone of something is a losing proposition for the start, you > >can lay out a thousand examples, while they cling to their habitual doubts, > >and you have wasted your time. But if they really want to taste the nectar, > >they need only take a bite of the fruit. > > I think you're right about the problems of showing proof, and yet because > I'm a skeptical sort of person (but curious too!) I'm looking for evidence > that it works. I mean, people spend thousands of dollars on gems for > remedial measures, and no one knows if they work! I find this a bit > troubling, because it can mean innocent people can get victimized by > astrologers, especially those with a vested interest in the gem industry. > > But I agree that one should try it for oneself. My problem is that while I > have started chanting as a result of reading the new Braha book, I know > that things will likely get better for me anyway since I just moved into my > Jupiter sub period. Certainly, I think my interest in remedial measures is > likely because of my Jupiter period (and it's in the 12th house to boot!), > and yet if things go better for me generally, then I'd be mistaken to think > it was because of the chanting. > > all the best, > > Chris > > >Respectfully, > >Don > > > >- > >"Christopher Kevill" <ckevill > ><gjlist> > >Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:59 PM > >Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? > > > > > >> Don: > >> > >> At 11:27 AM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote: > >> >Dear Chris, > >> >I would be happy to give some examples of my own experiences. > >> > >> Yes, I would love to hear them. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> gjlist- > >> > >> > >> > >> Your use of is subject to > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Hi Chris, Don, Patrice, all, I can easily agree with all your opinions. Whether the effect of remedies is just "placebo effect" or not, who cares if it works. Than why should be a gem more powerful than "mantra"..As far as "vibrational potency" is concerned, the highest one has our mind, with it's ability to reach "Divine grace"...(high-rise has, for ex. measurable, powerful magnetic and vibrational energy, more than any stone per se- but that's not an issue, since the later is assumed and expected to work in a different way..) And if we accept the premise that all types of healing are SELF- HEALING, as I strongly believe, than any "remedy" (gem, mantra, yapa, faith, prayer, therapy, friends...) will work if it's strong enough to inspire THE SOUL- as Das nicely formulated, our thoughts affect us, but we cannot choose what kind of thoughts we will have.. (Charity at all times, of course: I cannot even think about charity as a "remedial measure"... Nether do I need the proof that it works). If our faith can uplift our soul to the extent that we become open to receiving Grace, any faith would be effective. I say yes to "remedies"- but unlike in the case with faith in God, for all other remedies I would need some "proofs": I would include my own feeling and intuition if I had them. If one pays thousands dollars for a gem, that may well mean that 1) he has that money 2) perhaps, that metaphorical value of money means a lot to him- the "worth" he placed in gem can make him more respectful to the God and nature, in an indirect way, and help him "employ" his mind..etc..and if that works for him, it's OK. Chris' skepticism doesn't apply to this case, though. There are many poor souls who would be taken for a ride, so to speak, and that concern is worth respect. If mantras can do that (I feel they can, and prayers, too)- to open the soul, to empty "troubled" mind and therefore reduce the suffering- and invite those "mystical" effects of expecting something good to come, etc..than mantra would, ideally, be the first "offer" from an astrologer... One would say, that mantra chanting requires effort...again, I feel that's good..An effort invested in opposite direction from one that wounded soul naturally inclines to, in some periods of life.. Or maybe the positive effects come, in both cases, when the soul is already ready to shift it's attention, as Chris mentioned..I haven't seen many "more than faith" arguments so far.. Giving a gem that we need ourselves, that makes sense to me. In general, I can relate to Patrice's attitude and experience: material things that we need will somehow come to us, or we'll be drown in that direction- in my feeling, to remind us of that planetary energy which is in force in a certain period of time, and that we need to get in touch with it: by painting, writing, just becoming aware... (at the beginning of my Moon dasha, I made a painting with Moon's phases in the background, not even being aware of the fact that period started, purchased for the first time in my life (artificial)"pearls". .. As if I had "a void" of that energy.. Before that I didn't even like the pearls. I have pearls, mantra.now...I am not sure if that will "start working fully", (as per common expectation, I guess), when I experience the full dose of deb. Moon experience, that I am meant to go through. as I feel know. It does help in a way- makes me aware of importance of Moon energy in my life, and as a result smoothing the "edges" of my Saturn/Jupiter dominated personality.. and who knows what else, that might be worse otherwise. I wish I had an "experimental" person (clone?) to test these effects. For the time being I wait for more shared experiences to come from the List. Thanks. Anna - Christopher Kevill gjlist Monday, August 06, 2001 1:26 PM Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Patrice: At 01:11 AM 8/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Chris, > >>>>So you chanted for one year and then stopped. Why did you decide to >stop? > >I didn't really consciously 'decide' to stop, but my schedule became very, >very busy. We were also in major construction. So major that we had to >completely move out and live in a hotel/motel for a month. And I was home >schooling my youngest, etc, was giving cooking classes a couple times a >week. I let my schedule get too crazy. I still did chant often but not >consistently. Yeah, I know what you mean. I just chanted the Moon mantra while riding my bike. A different experience. > >I haven't chanted for a bit now, after a couple other suggestions for >chanting from other people on the list that had a peak at my chart just in >list conversations awhile ago. Alex had suggested the mrityunjaya mantra. > >I also had learned more and was questioning parts of my reading from James. >Around the same time, found it interesting that other people suggested >completely different chanting, etc. I very much enjoy chanting and doing it >consistently each morning. Exactly. This sort of thing drives me nuts. There are numerous different chants out there for each planet; which one works? I guess the faithful will answer they all do or the one you commit to in your heart and soul is the one that will work for you. That's hard to accept though for the vedic ones where the vibrations of the sounds are supposed to resonate with the energy of the planets. Correct pronunciation is important there. Different mantras will have entirely different vibrations. Braha himself tells me now that the ones in his books are "devotional" and had he known about the vedic ones (these ones are the 108 names of the planets given by Das a while back) he would have given those instead! Still, he's convinced that the devotional ones work as well. I decided to wait until I could get more >information from a very learned Jyotishi, that I was in line with his >teaching, and therefore would have more faith in a reading from him/her. And >also for a better time for consistency again. > >The list was talking a lot about remedies, chanting, yagyas and remedial >measures, and I saw a lot of confusion and advice given, but I think it is >very important and take remedial measures seriously. I'm open to them and I'm curious about them. But I'd like to know more about people's experiences with them before I do too much with them. > >After being married for 14 years though, it is interesting that around this >time and while chanting Venus and Moon, my husband did give me a diamond >ring. This was Venus/Moon/Moon/Moon dasa. Great. The reverse so to speak: if you're trying to remediate Venus, you're supposed to give a diamond to someone. > >And literally two days before my Venus/Moon/Moon/Moon dasa, and while >chanting Venus and Moon, my husband gave me a beautiful strand of pearls. Wow. I'm sure those helped. I know this one female professor whose chart I read had a very afflicted Moon. She was in the habit of wearing a pearl bracelet for aesthetic reasons. She told me that one day she wasn't wearing it and had to leave a faculty meeting out of frustration at a colleague. She couldn't take it any more! It was only after the fact that she realized she wasn't wearing the pearls that day. >As far as other types of remedial measures, I was not in any position to >consider having yagyas done, although James did suggest that I do that. And >the disconnect is there in a way for me. I prefer to be engaged in a way. Agreed. I would have to feel a part of it somehow. >Again, I guess intuitively I feel the chanting is beneficial for me. Also, I >have thought perhaps performing Puja would help as a remedy, similarly to >the way meditation works, although it may not necessarily be done with the >idea of 'remedy'. Not to say that yagyas do not work. I have heard many >speak of great results with yagyas. Right. Rick Houck told me he had a Mars yagya performed before his operation for Cancer a few years back. The question is, how to evaluate its effectiveness? Was it a failure because he's dead now or was it a success because he exceeded the average survival time for colon cancer patients? To me, this will always be the standard sort of problem with this stuff. > >I also think that music may work for me. Again, on the level of sound as I >seem sensitive to that. And both chanting and music are naturally very >enjoyable to me, which I think may tell us something about what we are drawn >to may work best for us, perhaps. I love music too. Is there a type of music, or key that is associated with each planet? Actually, it reminds me that sometimes I like to vary the pitch of the chant, just for fun, and make it into a little song. I have a feeling this isn't kosher, but I like to fool around with it anyway. >areness of them when these things come up. > >Another thing I was doing, and still do at times, is just 'experiencing' the >energy of Moon and Venus more. I wrote poems, art, etc... just for my own >and to experience that exploration and time, energy, with them. That's a good idea. Maybe you'd like to post a poem of two sometime? > >I have James Braha's earlier books. They were the first ones recommended to >me on my first day of learning Jyotish. I have his latest on order to pick >up this week and am looking forward to it. > >So, Chris, do you believe that what James dismisses to be so in your own >experience? I don't know. I respect his experience which is far greater than mine, but it's really hard to say. Most of jyotish is about little influences that add up to something. Saying that one of these little influences is wrong is a tough call. It would be hard to say one way or another. I tend to agree with him if only because there are so many ways to cancel the debilitation. I think 75% of debilitated planets are cancelled. Of course, that doesn't make them "normal". But then again, being debilitated isn't the end of the world either. You could actually make a case that debilitation isn't that big a deal, although I'm not about to do that. :-) Maybe we can talk more about it when you read the book. Chris > >Namaste, >Patrice > > > > > > > > > > >gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Dear Don: t 03:38 PM 8/6/01 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Chris, >I must address your comments regarding a "placebo effect" and "perhaps it >gives you a peace of mind to deal with the hardships of one's environment >more effectively". >First of all from any other perspective except my own it could be considered >a "placebo effect", but for anyone to try and assess my own experiences, >better than I who lived them, seems rather presumptuous. Agreed, personal experience is the ultimate arbiter of truth. >I have spent several hundred dollars on gemstones for myself and others and >have no regrets. There is a universal law that says in giving, we open >ourselves to receive. If one goes through life with such fear of losing a >few dollars, how can they hope to gain anything of value? >If there are astrologers out there ripping people off, how long do you think >they will last? I am certain they would be exposed and disgraced before >very long and their careers finished. I didn't mean they would be stealing or selling inferior quality gems. Obviously these folks won't last long. My thought was just that gems are big business and astrologers are often involved, at least indirectly. If they don't really work, then where does that put the astrologer in the karmic wheel? Of course, this question is a thorny one that probably has no clear answer anyway. It is likely impossible to "prove" that gems work or don't work. One of the essential principles upon >which Vedic astrology is intricately woven in the principle of karma. The >chart is the blueprint of the souls karmas, so how could one study this >sacred science of light and hold to the fear of being scammed? No one could >use this avenue simply for making money and depriving someone of what is >rightfully theirs....its not possible. >If one is not in this with the intension of uplifting souls, then they are >in the wrong field of study. I'm not as sanguine in my view of the human soul. I think everybody can fall to the depths, and people with "good" intentions and spiritual motives are no less susceptible. Swamis driving cadillacs, gurus seducing followers, priests with altar boys, Jim Bakker, Jim Jones, and the list goes on and on. best, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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