Do remedial measures really work? Help?

August 7, 2001

Hello all,

This thread of conversation is a welcome dialog. I consider everything as

possible but at the same time put everything of import to me under scrutiny.

I also believe each individual will have varying results because of their

individuality, so what works for one might/might not work for another. I am

currently in the beginning stages of experimenting with jyotiSa's remedial

measures and would like to share what I have encountered in hopes that

others can help me with their experience and benefit from mine.

Even before studying jyotiSa, I have used mantrams in the past and present,

like the gAyatrI, and from my experience they produce noticeable changes in

perception and the quality of the energetic environment. I have had a range

from subtle to very direct effects from mantrams. I feel both the

meditative state chanting can induce as well as the sound combinations

themselves contribute to these effects. However, for me, there has also

been clear evidence that mantrams can invoke actual energy patterns that can

be physically felt. Recently, reciting the bijaM mantram for bRhaspati had

a definite effect for me. I think 'cooperation' between the mantram and the

chanter, in terms of desire, openness, and the chanter's

mental/emotional/physical state, as well as the actual energy encoded in a

mantram create various synergies for people. Anyway, that's my experience

with mantrams in brief. :-)

I have been looking into gemstones as a remedial measure since jyotiSa

emphasizes their effectiveness and I would like to have as much assistance

as I can gather to help me with the issues I am facing. I have found my

gemstone prescription to have significant negative effects. I share this

because I want folks to know these things are real, but can cut both ways.

I recently had a reading done by a very prominent and credible jyotiSi who

strongly prescribed emerald for me. My birth data is:

1963-DEC-11 11:26 PM Portland, OR, USA

The emerald was prescribed for budha being closely hemmed by ketu and kuja

in the 5th.

I then went through the steps of acquiring an emerald from a gemmologist

recommended by the jyotiSi. Emeralds, especially jyotiSa quality are not

inexpensive, so I hope you can see I'm seriously testing the advice given to

me. (I'm somewhat embarrassed because this expenditure seems ostentatious

from some perspectives and I am a modest person. It also placed a burden on

me financially, however, I really wanted to see if it would be remedial so I

went for it.) I expected the results from wearing the gem to be subtle

and/or pleasant. I had the exact opposite occur. A few seconds after

wearing the gem I began to feel physically uncomfortable; two minutes later

I became so ill I had to remove it.

I wrote the jyotiSi, detailing the circumstances, and the brief response was

to try another emerald. I have done so (through a memo program at no cost,

thankfully) and though the second gem doesn't quite compare with the first

in terms of intensity, I still feel physical discomfort after a while. (All

this is difficult for me as I can't be nonchalant and detached dealing with

gems that cost so much.)

Not wanting to bother the jyotiSi with my situation, but feeling unable to

get assistance from any other avenue, I again wrote the jyotiSi in hopes of

getting clarification of my circumstances, thinking maybe the recent

combustion of budha was the cause of my negative reaction to the emerald.

(I first tried the emerald on Aug. 3rd when budha was under 3 degrees away

from sUrya.)

The response emphasized that the jyotiSi held the opinion that I should wear

the first stone and that the cases of gems for benefics causing negative

reactions are VERY rare. Also, the jyotiSi was of the opinion that the ill

effects I received had nothing to do with the gem even though they are

repeatable, but something that would have happened to me anyway, the

proximity to the gem in time and space with the effects being coincidences.

I am at a loss that there seems to be so little recourse in determining how

a gemstone will affect someone, especially by serious practitioners of such

a sacred and profound science who claim they are providing service to

humanity and know their recommendations are sought by persons in need and

that the cost of these recommendations can be exorbitant. Since I didn't

fit the profile of most clients with regard to gems, all I was told in the

end was 'good luck'. I now open this situation up for comment by the list

members in hopes of more information. Don't worry, however -- I will follow

my own counsel on this and return both gems.

~Beau

August 8, 2001

Dear Beau,

Your post has drawn me out of my quietude. Your experience compelled me to

look at your chart to see why you had such a negative result from wearing a

gem (emerald). I am amazed and stunned that anyone could recommend this

stone for you.

Yes you are in a Mercury pratyantar dasa and Mercury is caught in a scissor

yoga between Mars and Ketu but please note that Mars is yogakaraka and Ketu

co-ruling Scorpio is beneficially involved in this yoga. Mercury on the

other hand is malefic to your Ascendant, owning 11th and 2nd houses. Virgo

(2nd house) is Mercury's moolatrikona (strongest) house. This is a maraka

house (has death inflicting qualities).

My Ascendant lord Saturn has 2nd house as his moolatrikona sign....even

though Saturn is my Ascendant lord I would never contemplate wearing blue

sapphire due to his ownership of 2nd house.

Look closely at your horoscope and see the full effect of wearing the stone

of a malefic planet. 5th lord Jupiter carries the qualities of the planets

occupying his house...so we can say that Jupiter carries some qualities of

2nd house (fortunately he also carries the qualities of 9th house, which

should counteract the negative influence). But what you've done by

strengthening 2nd lord is to strengthen the negative quality. In your chart

Jupiter is aspecting your Ascendant lord Sun (the planet of health), so

little wonder you felt ill when wearing the emerald.

Certainly there can be no doubt of the power of Gems (for good or bad). Your

experience demonstrates this in no uncertain terms.

Great care must be taken to choose gems of auspicious planets only.

Regards, Wendy

> Hello all,

>

>SNIP<

>

> I recently had a reading done by a very prominent and credible jyotiSi who

> strongly prescribed emerald for me. My birth data is:

>

> 1963-DEC-11 11:26 PM Portland, OR, USA

>

> The emerald was prescribed for budha being closely hemmed by ketu and kuja

> in the 5th.

>

> I then went through the steps of acquiring an emerald from a gemmologist

> recommended by the jyotiSi. Emeralds, especially jyotiSa quality are not

> inexpensive, so I hope you can see I'm seriously testing the advice given

to

> me. (I'm somewhat embarrassed because this expenditure seems ostentatious

> from some perspectives and I am a modest person. It also placed a burden

on

> me financially, however, I really wanted to see if it would be remedial so

I

> went for it.) I expected the results from wearing the gem to be subtle

> and/or pleasant. I had the exact opposite occur. A few seconds after

> wearing the gem I began to feel physically uncomfortable; two minutes

later

> I became so ill I had to remove it.

>

> I wrote the jyotiSi, detailing the circumstances, and the brief response

was

> to try another emerald. I have done so (through a memo program at no

cost,

> thankfully) and though the second gem doesn't quite compare with the first

> in terms of intensity, I still feel physical discomfort after a while.

(All

> this is difficult for me as I can't be nonchalant and detached dealing

with

> gems that cost so much.)

>

> Not wanting to bother the jyotiSi with my situation, but feeling unable to

> get assistance from any other avenue, I again wrote the jyotiSi in hopes

of

> getting clarification of my circumstances, thinking maybe the recent

> combustion of budha was the cause of my negative reaction to the emerald.

> (I first tried the emerald on Aug. 3rd when budha was under 3 degrees away

> from sUrya.)

>

> The response emphasized that the jyotiSi held the opinion that I should

wear

> the first stone and that the cases of gems for benefics causing negative

> reactions are VERY rare. Also, the jyotiSi was of the opinion that the

ill

> effects I received had nothing to do with the gem even though they are

> repeatable, but something that would have happened to me anyway, the

> proximity to the gem in time and space with the effects being

coincidences.

> I am at a loss that there seems to be so little recourse in determining

how

> a gemstone will affect someone, especially by serious practitioners of

such

> a sacred and profound science who claim they are providing service to

> humanity and know their recommendations are sought by persons in need and

> that the cost of these recommendations can be exorbitant. Since I didn't

> fit the profile of most clients with regard to gems, all I was told in the

> end was 'good luck'. I now open this situation up for comment by the list

> members in hopes of more information. Don't worry, however -- I will

follow

> my own counsel on this and return both gems.

>

> ~Beau

>

August 8, 2001

Wendy:

>Look closely at your horoscope and see the full effect of wearing the stone

>of a malefic planet. 5th lord Jupiter carries the qualities of the planets

>occupying his house...so we can say that Jupiter carries some qualities of

>2nd house (fortunately he also carries the qualities of 9th house, which

>should counteract the negative influence). But what you've done by

>strengthening 2nd lord is to strengthen the negative quality. In your chart

>Jupiter is aspecting your Ascendant lord Sun (the planet of health), so

>little wonder you felt ill when wearing the emerald.

>

>Certainly there can be no doubt of the power of Gems (for good or bad). Your

>experience demonstrates this in no uncertain terms.

>

>Great care must be taken to choose gems of auspicious planets only.

I wonder how this squares with James Braha's experience of recommending

gems for weak planets for 20 years?

To the disinterested observer, the existence of such diverse opinions in

this debate undermines the credibility of gems as a remedial measure.

Chris

>

>Regards, Wendy

>

>> Hello all,

>>

>>SNIP<

>>

>> I recently had a reading done by a very prominent and credible jyotiSi who

>> strongly prescribed emerald for me. My birth data is:

>>

>> 1963-DEC-11 11:26 PM Portland, OR, USA

>>

>> The emerald was prescribed for budha being closely hemmed by ketu and kuja

>> in the 5th.

>>

>> I then went through the steps of acquiring an emerald from a gemmologist

>> recommended by the jyotiSi. Emeralds, especially jyotiSa quality are not

>> inexpensive, so I hope you can see I'm seriously testing the advice given

>to

>> me. (I'm somewhat embarrassed because this expenditure seems ostentatious

>> from some perspectives and I am a modest person. It also placed a burden

>on

>> me financially, however, I really wanted to see if it would be remedial so

>I

>> went for it.) I expected the results from wearing the gem to be subtle

>> and/or pleasant. I had the exact opposite occur. A few seconds after

>> wearing the gem I began to feel physically uncomfortable; two minutes

>later

>> I became so ill I had to remove it.

>>

>> I wrote the jyotiSi, detailing the circumstances, and the brief response

>was

>> to try another emerald. I have done so (through a memo program at no

>cost,

>> thankfully) and though the second gem doesn't quite compare with the first

>> in terms of intensity, I still feel physical discomfort after a while.

>(All

>> this is difficult for me as I can't be nonchalant and detached dealing

>with

>> gems that cost so much.)

>>

>> Not wanting to bother the jyotiSi with my situation, but feeling unable to

>> get assistance from any other avenue, I again wrote the jyotiSi in hopes

>of

>> getting clarification of my circumstances, thinking maybe the recent

>> combustion of budha was the cause of my negative reaction to the emerald.

>> (I first tried the emerald on Aug. 3rd when budha was under 3 degrees away

>> from sUrya.)

>>

>> The response emphasized that the jyotiSi held the opinion that I should

>wear

>> the first stone and that the cases of gems for benefics causing negative

>> reactions are VERY rare. Also, the jyotiSi was of the opinion that the

>ill

>> effects I received had nothing to do with the gem even though they are

>> repeatable, but something that would have happened to me anyway, the

>> proximity to the gem in time and space with the effects being

>coincidences.

>> I am at a loss that there seems to be so little recourse in determining

>how

>> a gemstone will affect someone, especially by serious practitioners of

>such

>> a sacred and profound science who claim they are providing service to

>> humanity and know their recommendations are sought by persons in need and

>> that the cost of these recommendations can be exorbitant. Since I didn't

>> fit the profile of most clients with regard to gems, all I was told in the

>> end was 'good luck'. I now open this situation up for comment by the list

>> members in hopes of more information. Don't worry, however -- I will

>follow

>> my own counsel on this and return both gems.

>>

>> ~Beau

>>

>

>gjlist-

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

August 8, 2001

Hi, Wendy and Chris,

Wendy -- Thanks for taking the time to review my chart, your efforts and

insights are very much appreciated.

Chris -- What I gather from Wendy's analysis and the experience I had of the

power of gems is that greater care must be taken when prescribing them.

This invites a direct analogy to modern physicians and their varying use of

drugs. I've had doctors who practice in the same medical group widely

contradict one another's opinions on the use of pharmaceuticals with my

child as their trial ground. And I would not now place my faith in one

recommendation, no matter how long the jyotiSi has been practicing; in

hindsight, I should have asked another for advice, too.

~Beau

Christopher Kevill [ckevill]

Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:53 AM

gjlist

Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Help?

<snip>

I wonder how this squares with James Braha's experience of recommending

gems for weak planets for 20 years?

To the disinterested observer, the existence of such diverse opinions in

this debate undermines the credibility of gems as a remedial measure.

Chris

August 8, 2001

Beau:

At 07:37 AM 8/8/01 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi, Wendy and Chris,

>

>Wendy -- Thanks for taking the time to review my chart, your efforts and

>insights are very much appreciated.

>

>Chris -- What I gather from Wendy's analysis and the experience I had of the

>power of gems is that greater care must be taken when prescribing them.

>This invites a direct analogy to modern physicians and their varying use of

>drugs. I've had doctors who practice in the same medical group widely

>contradict one another's opinions on the use of pharmaceuticals with my

>child as their trial ground. And I would not now place my faith in one

>recommendation, no matter how long the jyotiSi has been practicing; in

>hindsight, I should have asked another for advice, too.

This medical analogy is obviously a good idea whose time has come! I

totally agree. Mostly though, experimentation with the gems themselves

should be your guide, not the jyotishis. Trust yourself ahead of everyone

else.

Chris

>

>~Beau

>

>Christopher Kevill [ckevill]

>Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:53 AM

>gjlist

>Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Help?

>

><snip>

>

>I wonder how this squares with James Braha's experience of recommending

>gems for weak planets for 20 years?

>

>To the disinterested observer, the existence of such diverse opinions in

>this debate undermines the credibility of gems as a remedial measure.

>

>Chris

>

>gjlist-

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

August 8, 2001

Dear Beau,

It occurred to me that perhaps your chart was done by that astrologer using

11:26AM vs. PM which might account for his mistaken recommendation. Just a

thought!

Respectfully,

Don

-

"Beau Binder" <bbinder

"Goravani Jyotish List" <gjlist>

Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:01 PM

Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Help?

> Hello all,

>

> This thread of conversation is a welcome dialog. I consider everything as

> possible but at the same time put everything of import to me under

scrutiny.

> I also believe each individual will have varying results because of their

> individuality, so what works for one might/might not work for another. I

am

> currently in the beginning stages of experimenting with jyotiSa's remedial

> measures and would like to share what I have encountered in hopes that

> others can help me with their experience and benefit from mine.

>

> Even before studying jyotiSa, I have used mantrams in the past and

present,

> like the gAyatrI, and from my experience they produce noticeable changes

in

> perception and the quality of the energetic environment. I have had a

range

> from subtle to very direct effects from mantrams. I feel both the

> meditative state chanting can induce as well as the sound combinations

> themselves contribute to these effects. However, for me, there has also

> been clear evidence that mantrams can invoke actual energy patterns that

can

> be physically felt. Recently, reciting the bijaM mantram for bRhaspati

had

> a definite effect for me. I think 'cooperation' between the mantram and

the

> chanter, in terms of desire, openness, and the chanter's

> mental/emotional/physical state, as well as the actual energy encoded in a

> mantram create various synergies for people. Anyway, that's my experience

> with mantrams in brief. :-)

>

> I have been looking into gemstones as a remedial measure since jyotiSa

> emphasizes their effectiveness and I would like to have as much assistance

> as I can gather to help me with the issues I am facing. I have found my

> gemstone prescription to have significant negative effects. I share this

> because I want folks to know these things are real, but can cut both ways.

>

> I recently had a reading done by a very prominent and credible jyotiSi who

> strongly prescribed emerald for me. My birth data is:

>

> 1963-DEC-11 11:26 PM Portland, OR, USA

>

> The emerald was prescribed for budha being closely hemmed by ketu and kuja

> in the 5th.

>

> I then went through the steps of acquiring an emerald from a gemmologist

> recommended by the jyotiSi. Emeralds, especially jyotiSa quality are not

> inexpensive, so I hope you can see I'm seriously testing the advice given

to

> me. (I'm somewhat embarrassed because this expenditure seems ostentatious

> from some perspectives and I am a modest person. It also placed a burden

on

> me financially, however, I really wanted to see if it would be remedial so

I

> went for it.) I expected the results from wearing the gem to be subtle

> and/or pleasant. I had the exact opposite occur. A few seconds after

> wearing the gem I began to feel physically uncomfortable; two minutes

later

> I became so ill I had to remove it.

>

> I wrote the jyotiSi, detailing the circumstances, and the brief response

was

> to try another emerald. I have done so (through a memo program at no

cost,

> thankfully) and though the second gem doesn't quite compare with the first

> in terms of intensity, I still feel physical discomfort after a while.

(All

> this is difficult for me as I can't be nonchalant and detached dealing

with

> gems that cost so much.)

>

> Not wanting to bother the jyotiSi with my situation, but feeling unable to

> get assistance from any other avenue, I again wrote the jyotiSi in hopes

of

> getting clarification of my circumstances, thinking maybe the recent

> combustion of budha was the cause of my negative reaction to the emerald.

> (I first tried the emerald on Aug. 3rd when budha was under 3 degrees away

> from sUrya.)

>

> The response emphasized that the jyotiSi held the opinion that I should

wear

> the first stone and that the cases of gems for benefics causing negative

> reactions are VERY rare. Also, the jyotiSi was of the opinion that the

ill

> effects I received had nothing to do with the gem even though they are

> repeatable, but something that would have happened to me anyway, the

> proximity to the gem in time and space with the effects being

coincidences.

> I am at a loss that there seems to be so little recourse in determining

how

> a gemstone will affect someone, especially by serious practitioners of

such

> a sacred and profound science who claim they are providing service to

> humanity and know their recommendations are sought by persons in need and

> that the cost of these recommendations can be exorbitant. Since I didn't

> fit the profile of most clients with regard to gems, all I was told in the

> end was 'good luck'. I now open this situation up for comment by the list

> members in hopes of more information. Don't worry, however -- I will

follow

> my own counsel on this and return both gems.

>

> ~Beau

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

August 8, 2001

In a message dated 8/8/2001 9:58:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

ckevill writes:

> I wonder how this squares with James Braha's experience of recommending

> gems for weak planets for 20 years?

>

> To the disinterested observer, the existence of such diverse opinions in

> this debate undermines the credibility of gems as a remedial measure.

>

> Chris

>

> From what I can tell, Chris, hardly one if any of us is a 'disinterested

> observer.' I say, this experience (of becoming ill immediately after

> wearing a recommended emerald and even when trying a second emerald

> recommended) tells me that the recommendation was not appropriate for the

> individual. This squares with the fact that not every person who has

> studied any subject in depth for 20 years or longer, will be infallible.

> That's reserved for the gods, not the mortals. So we live and we learn,

> that's all. I don't throw out the value of a person because the person

> made a mistake, nor should the disinterested observer you conjured!

> Best to all,

> Carol

August 8, 2001

Hi Don,

Thanks for the thought; I wish that were the case! The astrologer and I

made sure he had the right time before continuing the first session and he

mailed me the charts he used in the initial analysis. They match with what

I've generated using GJ. I also sent my natal info to him each time I wrote

him thereafter.

I am planning on finding another jyotiSi who is currently in active practice

but hopefully a different training background.

I believe this person gave the best advice available to him from many years

of experience and the time available due to client load, but it is obvious

that the assessment could have included other considerations given the

findings from Wendy's analysis, and he could have asked another colleague

for a 2nd opinion.

Thanks again,

Beau

Don [vedicreadings]

Wednesday, August 08, 2001 5:10 PM

gjlist

Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Help?

Dear Beau,

It occurred to me that perhaps your chart was done by that astrologer using

11:26AM vs. PM which might account for his mistaken recommendation. Just a

thought!

Respectfully,

Don

August 8, 2001

Dear Beau,

If he was working with the right there is no excuse for such a

recommendation. The advise Zoran has just given is the best advice in using

gemstones. 1, 5, and 9th lords can be strengthened most times without too

much concern. And even if Sani is yogakaraka I would assess the chart

carefully before strengthening a natural malefic if it is already strong by

sign and placement.

Respectfully,

Don

-

"Beau Binder" <bbinder

Wednesday, August 08, 2001 7:01 PM

RE: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Help?

> Hi Don,

>

> Thanks for the thought; I wish that were the case! The astrologer and I

> made sure he had the right time before continuing the first session and he

> mailed me the charts he used in the initial analysis. They match with

what

> I've generated using GJ. I also sent my natal info to him each time I

wrote

> him thereafter.

>

> I am planning on finding another jyotiSi who is currently in active

practice

> but hopefully a different training background.

> I believe this person gave the best advice available to him from many

years

> of experience and the time available due to client load, but it is obvious

> that the assessment could have included other considerations given the

> findings from Wendy's analysis, and he could have asked another colleague

> for a 2nd opinion.

>

> Thanks again,

> Beau

>

> Don [vedicreadings]

> Wednesday, August 08, 2001 5:10 PM

> gjlist

> Re: [gjlist] Do remedial measures really work? Help?

>

> Dear Beau,

> It occurred to me that perhaps your chart was done by that astrologer

using

> 11:26AM vs. PM which might account for his mistaken recommendation. Just

a

> thought!

> Respectfully,

> Don

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

August 9, 2001

Carol:

>>

>> From what I can tell, Chris, hardly one if any of us is a 'disinterested

>> observer.' I say, this experience (of becoming ill immediately after

>> wearing a recommended emerald and even when trying a second emerald

>> recommended) tells me that the recommendation was not appropriate for the

>> individual.

Perhaps not, but it may have been something that the astrologer could not

have known. This is the problem we face when discussing remedial measures.

Is the rule that is at fault or is it simply an anomalous reaction of the

individual which doesn't violate the rule? Certainly the tale of the

illness-inducing emerald tells us the Beau shouldn't go anywhere near

emeralds. But does that single case undermine the idea of strengthening

weak planets as a whole? I would say no. As we've seen, there are a

number of contradicting opinions out there, each claiming to the be

"correct" one. So who to believe? My point is starting this thread was

simply that there isn't a lot of research on this topic and it behooves us

to understand some real life experiences more. The real problem is that

it's tough to show that one way works better than another. Just so everyone

knows what how I'm dividing this up: one view holds that weak planets

should be strengthened if they are lagnesh, dasha lord or in some cases

just plain weak (like Moon), while the other side holds that only strong

planets should be propiated with gems. There are variations within each

camp eg. regarding natural malefics, but those seem to be the basic

contours.

It makes our job more difficult that there are credible experience

astrologers lining up on both sides.

How can one of them be wrong? And yet, one side of this debate may well be

wrong. So we have to imagine how could James Braha, who emphasizes the

importance of following up with clients to see how their reading compares

with what is actually unfolding in their life, get this so wrong after 20

years experience? Or how could all the great astrologers like Wendy and

her gurus and many many others miss the boat on this one? I honestly don't

know how to account for it. As it said before, it suggests that it may not

matter much either way OR there are other principles at work such as the

individual's karma as it relates to remedial measures. Some people may not

be susceptible to "karmic improvement" by wearing gems so it wont' matter

what they wear. In any event, the differing opinions of the subject strong

suggests that the individuals go to more than one astrologer or better yet,

try different gems.

This squares with the fact that not every person who has

>> studied any subject in depth for 20 years or longer, will be infallible.

>> That's reserved for the gods, not the mortals. So we live and we learn,

>> that's all. I don't throw out the value of a person because the person

>> made a mistake, nor should the disinterested observer you conjured!

I agree. I didn't want to give the impression that astrologers don't or

shouldn't make mistakes. I only wondered what the source of the error

might be -- in unknowable facts (such as the individual's gem karma or

random chance, etc) or in a misapplication of jyotish/vedic rules about

gems, or in the very lack of valid principles pertaining to remedial measures.

Chris

>> Best to all,

>> Carol

>

>gjlist-

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

August 9, 2001

Okay Chris,

Let's try to clear the muddy waters if we can :-)))

FIRST: Yes! there are certain rules (guidelines) that most astrologers

adhere to. The guidelines that I follow are to strengthen (if needed) only

functional benefics, and to proceed with (great) caution if they happen to

be natural malefics...this is the basic principle. If my memory serves me

this is also what Braha advocates.

SECOND: And most important is to understand just how a planet is functioning

in the horoscope...what is it's relationship with other planets and what

affect is it having on them. Does it have the potential to disturb (or harm)

the significations of the planets/houses it aspects...or is it's aspect

beneficial. Following the above rule, one would say that if the planet's

strongest (moolatrikona) house is 1st, 5th or 9th, or it's yogakaraka, then

wearing that gem would be advantageous.......

But this is not always the case! Guidelines are just guidelines...the

essential ingredient is the skill of the astrologer to understand the

subtleties involved. I'm the first to admit that such subtle skills are not

always at hand...even for the best astrologers...it's hard reading someone

else's karma, but this is why (after twenty years practice) we say we're

still practicing this divine science...even the most skilled have their bad

days when all they see is symbols on a page, otherwise the mind is

blank...it happens to everyone :-)

Chris, we've spoken elsewhere (recently) about a native who has yogakaraka

Venus badly afflicted in 8th house of chronic illness, combust 8th lord Sun

and aspected by Mars and Saturn. Following the standard guidelines it would

be natural to recommend diamond to strengthen such a beneficial (yet

suffering) planet. Several renowned pundits (as well as yours truly) have in

fact recommended this. But further insight has led me to understand the true

nature of this chronic affliction, and I realise that wearing a diamond

would further undermine the health of this native.

Sun and Venus are natural enemies and being together in Leo they have become

bitter enemies. Both Sun and Venus are in the nakshatra of Venus. Yes! Venus

suffers by this placement, but Sun (lord of 8th house {chronic illness} and

significator of self/body/health) suffers even more. What do you suppose

would be the result if this native were to wear diamond??

So Chris, it's not always as simple as following this set of rules, or that

set of guidelines. Each horoscope is unique!

And you know, sometimes we get it right and sometimes we don't...none of us

are infallible!

My Best Wishes,

Wendy

> Carol:

>

> >>

> >> From what I can tell, Chris, hardly one if any of us is a

'disinterested

> >> observer.' I say, this experience (of becoming ill immediately after

> >> wearing a recommended emerald and even when trying a second emerald

> >> recommended) tells me that the recommendation was not appropriate for

the

> >> individual.

>

> Perhaps not, but it may have been something that the astrologer could not

> have known. This is the problem we face when discussing remedial

measures.

> Is the rule that is at fault or is it simply an anomalous reaction of the

> individual which doesn't violate the rule? Certainly the tale of the

> illness-inducing emerald tells us the Beau shouldn't go anywhere near

> emeralds. But does that single case undermine the idea of strengthening

> weak planets as a whole? I would say no. As we've seen, there are a

> number of contradicting opinions out there, each claiming to the be

> "correct" one. So who to believe? My point is starting this thread was

> simply that there isn't a lot of research on this topic and it behooves us

> to understand some real life experiences more. The real problem is that

> it's tough to show that one way works better than another. Just so

everyone

> knows what how I'm dividing this up: one view holds that weak planets

> should be strengthened if they are lagnesh, dasha lord or in some cases

> just plain weak (like Moon), while the other side holds that only strong

> planets should be propiated with gems. There are variations within each

> camp eg. regarding natural malefics, but those seem to be the basic

> contours.

>

> It makes our job more difficult that there are credible experience

> astrologers lining up on both sides.

> How can one of them be wrong? And yet, one side of this debate may well

be

> wrong. So we have to imagine how could James Braha, who emphasizes the

> importance of following up with clients to see how their reading compares

> with what is actually unfolding in their life, get this so wrong after 20

> years experience? Or how could all the great astrologers like Wendy and

> her gurus and many many others miss the boat on this one? I honestly

don't

> know how to account for it. As it said before, it suggests that it may

not

> matter much either way OR there are other principles at work such as the

> individual's karma as it relates to remedial measures. Some people may

not

> be susceptible to "karmic improvement" by wearing gems so it wont' matter

> what they wear. In any event, the differing opinions of the subject

strong

> suggests that the individuals go to more than one astrologer or better

yet,

> try different gems.

>

> This squares with the fact that not every person who has

> >> studied any subject in depth for 20 years or longer, will be

infallible.

> >> That's reserved for the gods, not the mortals. So we live and we learn,

> >> that's all. I don't throw out the value of a person because the person

> >> made a mistake, nor should the disinterested observer you conjured!

>

> I agree. I didn't want to give the impression that astrologers don't or

> shouldn't make mistakes. I only wondered what the source of the error

> might be -- in unknowable facts (such as the individual's gem karma or

> random chance, etc) or in a misapplication of jyotish/vedic rules about

> gems, or in the very lack of valid principles pertaining to remedial

measures.

>

> Chris

>

> >> Best to all,

> >> Carol

August 9, 2001

Can you strengthen both Venus and the Sun or would that make it even worse? How

about a benefic that aspects the house that Venus/Sun are in? Would that help?

>>> wenvas 08/09/01 10:16AM >>>