Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Hello Everyone, Today I have banned two members. Wendy and Mani have been removed by me today. One was into constantly attacking SJVC and Robert. I had to choose. I chose Robert. The other was into constantly being mentally complex and opposing even simple things like Vegetarianism with all kinds of complex reasonings. I choose to promote vegetarianism. As leader of the list, I have to direct the list. I am ready and willing to perform my role as a Ksatriya in that regard. I too liked them in some ways, as some of you do. And some of you may in protest. That's your choice. I cannot accept any complex rationale that rationalizes unnecessary animal slaughter. Necessary meat eating is another thing, but that is very rare these days where most of us live. If you eat meat, that's your choice or perhaps your need. But I will not allow anyone to promote meat eating on a list with my name attached to it. If you have to eat meat for some reason you believe is real, then that's a sad reality. Still, you are not allowed to discuss that on this list. Promoting rights for all is a complex job, because often there are battles between individuals. Like the Israel/Arab conflict, inter personal battles can be highly complex. As the list operator, I can either do nothing, let such things simply go on, or I can choose to ban members from the list. I let Wendy subtly attack Robert for a very long time. I now choose to not allow this anymore. I let Mani do his thing for a very long time, but I tire of hearing his diatribes that undo much of what I've struggled to promote. And to warn others: If you want to try to shut Robert up, you had better do so with better Jyotish, not inuendos about his approach or character. And regarding those who wish to promote meat eating using "Brahman" as their reasoning: Find another list. Some things to me are not complex. They are simple. Meat eating is one of those issues. On this list, meat eating is not OK. It is understandable if one says HUMBLY that they feel they HAVE TO eat some little meat to SURVIVE, but on this list, it is best to just avoid revealling that about yourself, and if it is ever mentioned, like I said, it has to be framed in HUMILITY, as I certainly will not allow Mani style broadcasts to whitewash meat eating in the name of Brahman, and draw vegetarianism as something often associated with abusive and evil people. Das Goravani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Two members have been removed Looking at the Transits for this - due to *Retrograde* Mercury conjunct Sun? Opinions (astrological) please. ======== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 I do not think Das lost his innocence, but his patience--and I hope that soon, all will return to normal with our banned listmembers received again, with love...something Das has in abundance. Loss of patience is another description for Aries, yes?!! I understand impatience...I hope our banished ones will return to this list right soon! Love to all, Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Dear Das THANK YOU!!! Maybe this will be a more peaceful list now. I totally support your moves. Marcia At 08:21 AM 10/14/01 -0700, you wrote: Hello Everyone, Today I have banned two members. Wendy and Mani have been removed by me today. One was into constantly attacking SJVC and Robert. I had to choose. I chose Robert. The other was into constantly being mentally complex and opposing even simple things like Vegetarianism with all kinds of complex reasonings. I choose to promote vegetarianism. As leader of the list, I have to direct the list. I am ready and willing to perform my role as a Ksatriya in that regard. I too liked them in some ways, as some of you do. And some of you may in protest. That's your choice. I cannot accept any complex rationale that rationalizes unnecessary animal slaughter. Necessary meat eating is another thing, but that is very rare these days where most of us live. If you eat meat, that's your choice or perhaps your need. But I will not allow anyone to promote meat eating on a list with my name attached to it. If you have to eat meat for some reason you believe is real, then that's a sad reality. Still, you are not allowed to discuss that on this list. Promoting rights for all is a complex job, because often there are battles between individuals. Like the Israel/Arab conflict, inter personal battles can be highly complex. As the list operator, I can either do nothing, let such things simply go on, or I can choose to ban members from the list. I let Wendy subtly attack Robert for a very long time. I now choose to not allow this anymore. I let Mani do his thing for a very long time, but I tire of hearing his diatribes that undo much of what I've struggled to promote. And to warn others: If you want to try to shut Robert up, you had better do so with better Jyotish, not inuendos about his approach or character. And regarding those who wish to promote meat eating using "Brahman" as their reasoning: Find another list. Some things to me are not complex. They are simple. Meat eating is one of those issues. On this list, meat eating is not OK. It is understandable if one says HUMBLY that they feel they HAVE TO eat some little meat to SURVIVE, but on this list, it is best to just avoid revealling that about yourself, and if it is ever mentioned, like I said, it has to be framed in HUMILITY, as I certainly will not allow Mani style broadcasts to whitewash meat eating in the name of Brahman, and draw vegetarianism as something often associated with abusive and evil people. Das Goravani gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 bravo Das, I like a good honest debate but also feel the hostility towards Robert no matter how hard he tries to cooperate. This constant bickering and attitude gets old. We need to learn how to disagree and respect each other. We need to be kind towards each other, love each other. I have not felt the love lately in our family and it is time we do something about it. The world now needs to be careful of the little things and we need to start with ourselves. Peace. Gobind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 ....once upon a time there was a list, democratic, vividly, pugnacious, intelligent, amusing, educational, international, free, wasn`t it? Perhaps this was a only dream hence in consequence of the WTC attack this list became also a melting pot for very individual fears and opinions. A strong list has to manage this. And: there is always the delete button for us. Das, you lost your innocence, when you removed the first member from the list. Now you will be on the spot. What is your aim? A silent list with about 500 only consuming members? With Wendy and Mani you removed two members of really argumentative disposition. But they always kept the list alive - in good and also in bad times. We had periods of friction but now there is danger of death. I appeal to you : please reconsider your decision hence otherwise this list will be in danger of sectarianism. Ilona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Hi Das, I appreciate your concern- in certain cases it may me justifiable. In others... We are all adult. we all have delete button... If an incorrect response comes, it can either be ignored or responded by list members..As fo Mani, he is a jewel of another kind- whether you agree with him or not, he always brings "aa breath of fresh air" to a 'family. It seems to me in this case, that you couldn't find a "pair", not wanting to single anybody out. So Mani fell victim of your "diplomacy". Sad. Das, a good vegetarian, Please reconsider your decision. Anna - Das Goravani gjlist ; wenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au ; rkoch (AT) bendnet (DOT) com ; subra (AT) t-online (DOT) de Sunday, October 14, 2001 11:21 AM [gjlist] Two members have been removed Hello Everyone,Today I have banned two members. Wendy and Mani have been removed by me today.One was into constantly attacking SJVC and Robert. I had to choose. Ichose Robert.The other was into constantly being mentally complex and opposing evensimple things like Vegetarianism with all kinds of complex reasonings. Ichoose to promote vegetarianism.As leader of the list, I have to direct the list. I am ready and willingto perform my role as a Ksatriya in that regard. I too liked them in some ways, as some of you do. And some of you may in protest. That's your choice.I cannot accept any complex rationale that rationalizes unnecessaryanimal slaughter. Necessary meat eating is another thing, but that isvery rare these days where most of us live.If you eat meat, that's your choice or perhaps your need. But I will notallow anyone to promote meat eating on a list with my name attached toit. If you have to eat meat for some reason you believe is real, thenthat's a sad reality. Still, you are not allowed to discuss that on this list.Promoting rights for all is a complex job, because often there arebattles between individuals. Like the Israel/Arab conflict, interpersonal battles can be highly complex. As the list operator, I caneither do nothing, let such things simply go on, or I can choose to banmembers from the list.I let Wendy subtly attack Robert for a very long time. I now choose tonot allow this anymore. I let Mani do his thing for a very long time,but I tire of hearing his diatribes that undo much of what I'vestruggled to promote.And to warn others: If you want to try to shut Robert up, you had betterdo so with better Jyotish, not inuendos about his approach or character.And regarding those who wish to promote meat eating using "Brahman" astheir reasoning: Find another list.Some things to me are not complex. They are simple. Meat eating is oneof those issues. On this list, meat eating is not OK. It isunderstandable if one says HUMBLY that they feel they HAVE TO eat somelittle meat to SURVIVE, but on this list, it is best to just avoidrevealling that about yourself, and if it is ever mentioned, like Isaid, it has to be framed in HUMILITY, as I certainly will not allowMani style broadcasts to whitewash meat eating in the name of Brahman,and draw vegetarianism as something often associated with abusive andevil people. Das GoravaniTo from this group, send an email to:gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Dear Das, There is nothing wrong in removing people from your list, because you can always do it, as you own the list. Wendy to my mind was discussing astrology. Even I do not conform to SJVC thoughts because it is trying to propagate a kind of astrology which has no classical backing. But then, I do experiment with Sanjay's ideas. Will it also not amount to taking sides or preferring people who follow one school blindly and are averse to others. Robert is good but there can be better people around. What we should strive for is for promoting healthy atmosphere for discussing astrology and astrology alone and that you should make LOUD and CLEAR. best regards, Manoj --- gobind53 wrote: > bravo Das, > I like a good honest debate but also feel the > hostility towards Robert no > matter how hard he tries to cooperate. This constant > bickering and attitude > gets old. We need to learn how to disagree and > respect each other. We need to > be kind towards each other, love each other. I have > not felt the love lately > in our family and it is time we do something about > it. The world now needs to > be careful of the little things and we need to start > with ourselves. Peace. > Gobind > > > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Make a great connection at Personals. http://personals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Admittedly, I come and go on this list so I do not know all the deatils of what went on and whether or not it was right or wrong for Gouravani to remove these two people, but with that said, when it comes to freedom and meat eating all in the same breath, well, it is seriously against the Vaisnava spiritual practices to eat meat and that should be respected by all who join. There are so few places for vegetarians these days, at least in comparision to nonvegetarians, that it should be honored that no one should advocate eating of meat on this list. So in that area I have to support Gouravani prabhu. Though it sometimes can be used as a springborad to explain "why" vegetarianism is so important but I somehow have the feeling that was all ready tried or he would not have removed them from the list. The rest, I do not know one way or the other. Tulasi gjlist, HellmannC200@t... wrote: > ...once upon a time there was a list, democratic, vividly, pugnacious, > intelligent, amusing, educational, international, free, wasn`t it? Perhaps > this was a only dream hence in consequence of the WTC attack this list > became also a melting pot for very individual fears and opinions. A strong > list has to manage this. And: there is always the delete button for us. > Das, you lost your innocence, when you removed the first member from the > list. Now you will be on the spot. What is your aim? A silent list with > about 500 only consuming members? > With Wendy and Mani you removed two members of really argumentative > disposition. But they always kept the list alive - in good and also in bad > times. We had periods of friction but now there is danger of death. > I appeal to you : please reconsider your decision hence otherwise this list > will be in danger of sectarianism. > Ilona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2001 Report Share Posted October 14, 2001 Dear Carol, may your words find an open (H)ear(t). Love, Ilona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2001 Report Share Posted October 15, 2001 Om Krsnaaya Namah Hello Manoj, > > Wendy to my mind was discussing astrology. Even I do > not conform to SJVC thoughts because it is trying to > propagate a kind of astrology which has no classical > backing. But then, I do experiment with Sanjay's > ideas. > Could you kindly give me some examples of Sanjay Rath's ideas that do not have classical backing? Thanks, Pursottam _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2001 Report Share Posted October 15, 2001 Try finding Narayana Dasha Manoj >"Pursottam" <pursottam_dabasia >gjlist ><gjlist> >RE: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed >Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:02:58 +0100 > >Om Krsnaaya Namah > >Hello Manoj, > > > > > Wendy to my mind was discussing astrology. Even I do > > not conform to SJVC thoughts because it is trying to > > propagate a kind of astrology which has no classical > > backing. But then, I do experiment with Sanjay's > > ideas. > > > >Could you kindly give me some examples of Sanjay Rath's ideas that do not >have classical backing? > >Thanks, > >Pursottam > > >_______ > >Get your free @ address at > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Hare Rama Krishna Hi Manoj! Did you every try Jaimini Sutras !!! I think you could have very well found it there... All the best Sarajit - "Manoj Pathak" <manojpathak <gjlist> Tuesday, October 16, 2001 9:35 AM RE: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed > Try finding Narayana Dasha > > Manoj > > > >"Pursottam" <pursottam_dabasia > >gjlist > ><gjlist> > >RE: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed > >Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:02:58 +0100 > > > >Om Krsnaaya Namah > > > >Hello Manoj, > > > > > > > > Wendy to my mind was discussing astrology. Even I do > > > not conform to SJVC thoughts because it is trying to > > > propagate a kind of astrology which has no classical > > > backing. But then, I do experiment with Sanjay's > > > ideas. > > > > > > >Could you kindly give me some examples of Sanjay Rath's ideas that do not > >have classical backing? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Pursottam > > > > > >_______ > > > >Get your free @ address at > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Which Jaimini Sutras, except Updesha Sutram Manoj >"Sarajit Poddar" <sarajitp >gjlist ><gjlist> >Re: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed >Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:51:21 +0530 > >Hare Rama Krishna >Hi Manoj! > >Did you every try Jaimini Sutras !!! I think you could have very well found >it there... > >All the best >Sarajit > > > >- >"Manoj Pathak" <manojpathak ><gjlist> >Tuesday, October 16, 2001 9:35 AM >RE: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed > > > > Try finding Narayana Dasha > > > > Manoj > > > > > > >"Pursottam" <pursottam_dabasia > > >gjlist > > ><gjlist> > > >RE: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed > > >Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:02:58 +0100 > > > > > >Om Krsnaaya Namah > > > > > >Hello Manoj, > > > > > > > > > > > Wendy to my mind was discussing astrology. Even I do > > > > not conform to SJVC thoughts because it is trying to > > > > propagate a kind of astrology which has no classical > > > > backing. But then, I do experiment with Sanjay's > > > > ideas. > > > > > > > > > >Could you kindly give me some examples of Sanjay Rath's ideas that do >not > > >have classical backing? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Pursottam > > > > > > > > >_______ > > > > > >Get your free @ address at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > >: gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > : gjlist- > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Manoj, Pursottam did a fine job , trying to be polite and respectful and taking the time to show examples. I don't get your attitude, "great, then please use it". What do you mean by that? I am trying to learn and understand and when I hear facts it is more helpful to me. What I am hearing from you is talk but nothing to back up that talk. Why do you feel the way you do about Narayana dasha? Have you tried it? Why not? Jai Sita Ram, Gobind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Om Krsnaaya Namah Dear Manoj, > > > Which Jaimini Sutras, except Updesha Sutram > > Manoj > Another name for Narayana Dasa is Padakrama Dasa. This dasa is clearly explained in Sanjay's translation of the Jaimini Sutras, but it is not alone. B Suryanarain Rao's translation (which is the oldest English translation I am aware of) also mentions this dasa. SR: "The Stronger between the ascendant and the seventh house shall initiate the Narayana Dasa (alias Padakrama Dasa)." (2:4:7) BSR: "These results have to be carefully predicted from Lagna or the 7th, whichever is the stronger of the two. For males preference should be given to Lagna and for females the 7th should be preferred provided it is strong." (2:4:7) SR: "If the ascendant is a movable sign, the order of the dasas will be regular." (2:4:8) BSR: "If the Dasa commences with a movable sign or Chandra Rasi, then the order of the Rasi Dasas will be regular in a horoscope." (2:4:8) And you can go on for the next few verses. The key point to note is that BSB also mentions Padakrama dasa in his comments on some of the sutras. And while there are slight differences in BSR and SR's translation, the Dasa does nevertheless have a classical basis. Personally I prefer SR's translation on this dasa for a number of reasons. Firstly, he explains the Dasa quite clearly, with examples showing a good level of understanding of these sutras - whether or not it is perfect, we'll never know. But it appears to work. Sanjay also has the knowledge passed down through the Jyotish Parampara of which he is a part, and finally, and most importantly for me, this dasa works very well in my limited experience. In any case, clearly Padakrama Dasa (a.k.a Narayana Dasa) does have a classical basis. Thanks, Pursottam _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 great, then please use it. Manoj >"Pursottam" <pursottam_dabasia >gjlist ><gjlist> >RE: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed >Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:03:25 +0100 > >Om Krsnaaya Namah > >Dear Manoj, > > > > > > > Which Jaimini Sutras, except Updesha Sutram > > > > Manoj > > > >Another name for Narayana Dasa is Padakrama Dasa. This dasa is clearly >explained in Sanjay's translation of the Jaimini Sutras, but it is not >alone. B Suryanarain Rao's translation (which is the oldest English >translation I am aware of) also mentions this dasa. > >SR: > >"The Stronger between the ascendant and the seventh house shall initiate >the >Narayana Dasa (alias Padakrama Dasa)." (2:4:7) > >BSR: > >"These results have to be carefully predicted from Lagna or the 7th, >whichever is the stronger of the two. For males preference should be given >to Lagna and for females the 7th should be preferred provided it is >strong." >(2:4:7) > >SR: > >"If the ascendant is a movable sign, the order of the dasas will be >regular." (2:4:8) > >BSR: > >"If the Dasa commences with a movable sign or Chandra Rasi, then the order >of the Rasi Dasas will be regular in a horoscope." (2:4:8) > >And you can go on for the next few verses. The key point to note is that >BSB >also mentions Padakrama dasa in his comments on some of the sutras. And >while there are slight differences in BSR and SR's translation, the Dasa >does nevertheless have a classical basis. Personally I prefer SR's >translation on this dasa for a number of reasons. Firstly, he explains the >Dasa quite clearly, with examples showing a good level of understanding of >these sutras - whether or not it is perfect, we'll never know. But it >appears to work. Sanjay also has the knowledge passed down through the >Jyotish Parampara of which he is a part, and finally, and most importantly >for me, this dasa works very well in my limited experience. > >In any case, clearly Padakrama Dasa (a.k.a Narayana Dasa) does have a >classical basis. > >Thanks, > >Pursottam > > >_______ > >Get your free @ address at > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Gobind, I think, I have already answered that. At present, I am listening to the famous Shabad, "Wah Wah Gobind Singh, Aape Gur-Chela" Its a beutiful Shabad. Manoj >gobind53 >gjlist >gjlist >Re: [GJ] Re: [gjlist] Two members have been removed >Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:19:23 EDT > >Manoj, > Pursottam did a fine job , trying to be polite and respectful and taking >the time to show examples. I don't get your attitude, "great, then please >use >it". What do you mean by that? I am trying to learn and understand and when >I >hear facts it is more helpful to me. What I am hearing from you is talk but >nothing to back up that talk. Why do you feel the way you do about Narayana >dasha? Have you tried it? Why not? > > Jai Sita Ram, > Gobind > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 obeisances i am so pleased that you have stopped meat eating being justified on this list, thank you so much for doing that blessings y.s stavavali d.d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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