Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Hi Bill, i am sorry, Nicholas. i respect the fact that you are following 4 pm for Prabhupada's birth time. That is you feeling, go for it. To me Prabhupada could have been any lagna because he could do that and more but for my research and studies i feel that Sagittarius lagna is the best. Some say that he said 4 pm for his birth time and therefore that is the time to be taken. Well, he said as well so many things. I am sorry to say that the horoscope calculated for that time does not fit my experience. Furthermore, if Srila Prabhupada gave that time, i do not think that it was an error from him. To me he knew what he was doing but unfortunatelly, he is not with us now to tell us abput why he said so. And to me that does not matter because that is his right and he could say anything because he knew his plan. I have been researching here and there and perhaps you can explain to me why Prabhupada wrote that his moon sign is mithuna or Gemini, when every computer programe on vedic astrology gives Taurus. Perhaps i am missing something that you can tell me. Most of people born in India know their moon sign and moon naksatra....chandra rasi, chandra naksatra. To me, if i forget astrology in the next 10 or 20 years, i am sure that i will remember my moon sign even if i forget my time of birth. And i could give any birth time i want. Here i quote a letter sent by Prabhupada. ******* My Dear Jay Krishna Thakura, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated November 30, 1975. Yes I remember you were coming to see me daily at Bhaktivedanta Manor during my stay there in 1973. Regarding your question about my birth. I was born September 1, 1896, Tuesday at about 4:00 in the afternoon. My rasi is Metthuna [Mithuna=Gemini]. I hope this letter finds you well. Your ever well wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami **** >From this letter we can see 2 statements. 1 That he was born at around 4pm 2 That his moon sign is Gemini. Well, for those that want me to follow his birth for 4 pm i have this to say. To me his books are absolute knowledge but his reference about birth time is relative knowglege. He came as a teacher of Vedic knowledge and not as a teacher of vedic astrology, therefore he only gave us the guidance to astrology but not the teachings. In those 2 statements given by him there is room for verification because it does not fit with my calculations. If i take what he said look at this. If born at 4pm as many scholars sugest (it is a sugestion not a fact because we are not sure of that), then the horoscope has 7°44 Capricorn and according to the GJ programe and following Lahiri's ayanamsa (BTW, i was told that Bhaktishidhanta the guru of Prabhupada and according to Prabhupada, the last of the vedic astrologers in his time, was following Lahiris ayanamsa), the moon is at 28°05 Taurus. But if you want me to follow the birth time as absolute, then you should follow as well the moon in Gemini and this gives us a moon in the 6th house. Therefore a Capricorn lagna with a moon in the 6th does not fit His Divine grace's biography. However, if we calculate for 19:40 LMT, we get a 15°51 Pisces lagna and the moon at 44 seconds in Gemini. Here again, a Pisces lagna with the moon in gemini in the 4th house does not fit either. And Saturn exalted in 8th neither. You have to see that i am nt relying on any book publisher denying my lagna calculation on the basis of personal problems. I am just studying a chart based on those 2 statements. I hope that you explain to me that discrepancy regarding the moon sign for that birth time and date. Best wishes Natabara das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Om Krsnaaya Namah Dear Natabara, Hare Krsna! >>I have been researching here and there and perhaps you can explain to me why Prabhupada wrote that his moon sign is mithuna or Gemini, when every computer programe on vedic astrology gives Taurus. Perhaps i am missing something that you can tell me.<< Since the Moon is on the border of a sign, it is quite possible that his earlier astrologers may have used an ayanamsa other than Lahiri's and so got Moon in Gemini. Another possibility is that in the olden days (and perhaps even now in some villages) some astrologers may have done their calculations on the basis of the siddhanta texts, such as Surya Siddhanta, Panca Siddhantika etc. These calculations may have minor discrepancies when compared our modern calculation methods. Jaya Radhe! Pursottam _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Even today, I see charts from India quite regularly, where the moon is off by many degrees, other planets too. There are books and ways of calculating still being used in India, and sometimes by Indians in the West, where the planets are very far off. In 1896, ANYTHING could have happened. Those who assume the times and planets were correct are misleading themselves in my opinion. Based on my experience with charts from India made in the 50's and 60's of this century, I can surely conclude that in 1896 things were generally incredibly inaccurate. Intuition, is the missing link. That's where India can shine. There are people today, what to speak of back then, in India, who could see the truth without Jyotish. In this way, India's like an X. As technology increases, sadhana decreases, so then, as their accuracy increases, their sidhis and intuition will decrease. These are generalizations that apply everywhere, for wherever you store your treasure, there will be your heart (and everything else). -- Das Goravani 2852 Willamette St # 353 Eugene OR USA 97405 or Fax: 541-343-0344 "Goravani Jyotish" Vedic/Hindu Astrology Software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Om Gurave Namah--------------------------Dear Purushottama, You must see the way my grandfather has made and corrected my fathers chart. Its incredible for what we have today. There is a Panchang he used preserved even today . We call it Panjika that is still being made by the Khadiratna family of Orissa. The planets are running all over the place and I have seen how Grandfather has calculated them from the Panjika and then has done some corrections USING SOME STRANGE METHODS OF CALCULATIONS. tHEN THE BEST PART IS THAT HE HAS ARRIVED AT THE mOON POSITION... He has got Position (A) and another position which he calls position (B). Then he has predicted a few events and has followed the chart till the moment my father left for his engineering college. The shocking thing is that he used the Vimsottari Dasa upto six levels and has done all calculations using his figers and just noted Dasa-antar--etc till the sixth level in both Vimsottari dasa and then confirmed that his prediction was right. Father recalls that when he had gone for the intermediate exam results, Grandfather had told him that the resulkts would not be announced on that day and that when they would be announced at about 10 AM the next day, he would stand 1st Rank in the University, get the Gold medal and also the much needed scholarship for higher college education. This happened. What Raghu says is right. In all our calculations we are missing out on the Mantra and japa. another incident on the paper is the exact date and time when my father would leave and on that basis of the prediction being true, he finalises the chart with the dasa balance. This requires a different level of Knowledge.Best WishesSanjay Rath - Pursottam gjlist Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:07 PM RE: [GJ] Lagna Om Krsnaaya NamahDear Natabara,Hare Krsna!>>I have been researching here and there and perhaps you can explain to mewhy Prabhupada wrote that his moon sign is mithuna or Gemini, when everycomputer programe on vedic astrology gives Taurus. Perhaps i am missingsomething that you can tell me.<<Since the Moon is on the border of a sign, it is quite possible that hisearlier astrologers may have used an ayanamsa other than Lahiri's and so gotMoon in Gemini. Another possibility is that in the olden days (and perhapseven now in some villages) some astrologers may have done their calculationson the basis of the siddhanta texts, such as Surya Siddhanta, PancaSiddhantika etc. These calculations may have minor discrepancies whencompared our modern calculation methods.Jaya Radhe!Pursottam_______Do You ?Get your free @ address at Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat: gjlist-http://www.goravani.com Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Dear Natabara The reason Prabhupada gave his rasi as Gemini is probably that a lot of the ephemerises were way out in Bengal . So possibly the astrologer who worked on the 4 o clock time came up with a Sagittarius Lagna with a really bad ephemeris but it is a long shot .Anyway In the end Pandit Ojha predicted successfully on the basis of Capricorn Lagna and K.N.Rao who has the biggest repuatation in terms of predictive astrology rectified 39 events in Srila Prabhupada's life also thought Capricorn Lagna was right .So a mere mortal like myself who is perfectly happy with Capricorn Lagna sees no reason to change and is a little disappointed that the continual opposition from the believers in Sagittarius Lagna has meant no single chart has been accepted . I also have the concern that the Sagittarius Lagna makes a real mess of the 5th house one of the 2 key dharma houses and thus indicates someone less than a pure devotee . Anyway you have seen Prabhupada in acertain way for 22 years and so we are both pretty well entrenched so it would be better to move on . Hare Krsna Nicholas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Om Krsnaaya Namah Pranams Sanjay, Thanks for telling us about some of your grandfather's methods. It is very interesting to learn how the great jyotishi's of the past generations worked. I agree with you - it is a pity that despite our ability to calculate things perfectly, we have lost the intuition and vaak bala that results from intense sadhana, and it is therefore rare to see predictions as precise as those made by your grandfather, and by Srila Prabhupada's birth astrologer etc. But we can see the possibilities offered by Jyotisha Shastra, the great eye of the Vedas and we can at least aspire to attain that level of perfection, if Sri Krsna desires us to do so. Thanks once again, Hare Krsna, Pursottam _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 > I also have the concern that the Sagittarius Lagna makes a real mess of the 5th house one of the 2 key dharma houses and thus indicates someone less than a pure devotee . Purushottama, What are you referring to, the exalted moon with the lord of the fifth, a house of Vishnu worship; and the lagna lord Jupiter in the ninth with the Sun, imbued with religiosity, aspecting the ascendent? And with Capricorn ascendent you've got Jupiter in the eighth house under nodal affliction. things are just the opposite of what you say. I can't believe the things I hear on this list. And the fact that most of it goes unchallenged surprises me the most. Do you all sit in front of horoscopes very often to see how it works? Dharmapada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Om Krsnaaya Namah Dear Dharmapada, I already said I will try and avoid discussion with you for the sake of Peace (for me and the list). Why do you try to bring me into an argument, by putting my name to a statement I haven't made??? Hare Krsna, Pursottam > > 0108 [0108] > 17 October 2001 23:30 > gjlist > [GJ] Re: Lagna > > > > > I also have the concern that the Sagittarius Lagna makes a real > mess of the 5th house one of the 2 key dharma houses and thus > indicates someone less than a pure devotee . > > Purushottama, > > What are you referring to, the exalted moon with the lord of the > fifth, a house of Vishnu worship; and the lagna lord Jupiter in the > ninth with the Sun, imbued with religiosity, aspecting the ascendent? > > And with Capricorn ascendent you've got Jupiter in the eighth house > under nodal affliction. things are just the opposite of what you say. > > I can't believe the things I hear on this list. And the fact that > most of it goes unchallenged surprises me the most. Do you all sit in > front of horoscopes very often to see how it works? > > Dharmapada > > _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 Om Krsnaaya Namah Dear Dharmapada, I already said I will try and avoid discussion with you for the sake of Peace (for me and the list). Why do you try to bring me into an argument, by putting my name to a statement I haven't made??? Hare Krsna, Pursottam > > 0108 [0108] > 17 October 2001 23:30 > gjlist > [GJ] Re: Lagna > > > > > I also have the concern that the Sagittarius Lagna makes a real > mess of the 5th house one of the 2 key dharma houses and thus > indicates someone less than a pure devotee . > > Purushottama, > > What are you referring to, the exalted moon with the lord of the > fifth, a house of Vishnu worship; and the lagna lord Jupiter in the > ninth with the Sun, imbued with religiosity, aspecting the ascendent? > > And with Capricorn ascendent you've got Jupiter in the eighth house > under nodal affliction. things are just the opposite of what you say. > > I can't believe the things I hear on this list. And the fact that > most of it goes unchallenged surprises me the most. Do you all sit in > front of horoscopes very often to see how it works? > > Dharmapada > > _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2001 Report Share Posted October 17, 2001 gjlist, "Pursottam" <pursottam_dabasia> wrote: > Om Krsnaaya Namah > > Dear Dharmapada, > > I already said I will try and avoid discussion with you for the sake of > Peace (for me and the list). Purushottama, I, too, will opt for the sake of peace and the list, and will can it for now. Whether you wanted it or not, you got the last word on this one. # : ^ ) Dharmapada Why do you try to bring me into an argument, by > putting my name to a statement I haven't made??? > > Hare Krsna, > > Pursottam > > > > > 0108@t... [0108@t...] > > 17 October 2001 23:30 > > gjlist > > [GJ] Re: Lagna > > > > > > > > > I also have the concern that the Sagittarius Lagna makes a real > > mess of the 5th house one of the 2 key dharma houses and thus > > indicates someone less than a pure devotee . > > > > Purushottama, > > > > What are you referring to, the exalted moon with the lord of the > > fifth, a house of Vishnu worship; and the lagna lord Jupiter in the > > ninth with the Sun, imbued with religiosity, aspecting the ascendent? > > > > And with Capricorn ascendent you've got Jupiter in the eighth house > > under nodal affliction. things are just the opposite of what you say. > > > > I can't believe the things I hear on this list. And the fact that > > most of it goes unchallenged surprises me the most. Do you all sit in > > front of horoscopes very often to see how it works? > > > > Dharmapada > > > > > > > _______ > > Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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