Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Dear Arthur, There is no doubt that the right Upaye can be of benefit to this native with Jupiter's star lord in 9th house...this is the house of remedies! Also Saturn's aspect on MA/SU can indicate adoption. IMHO Saturn's placement in 8th Saptamsha, whilst not good for one's own progeny may grant adopted children as a malefic planet in malefic house has the ability to fulfil it's obligations. Saturn specifically refers to adoption, so I see this as a possibility. Ravindramani writes: 9-01-2002 1055 IST Dear Wendy, May I request you to kindly throw light on adoption issue a little further. What are the possibble planetary positions which you have seen in your experience for adoption in a nativity. Generally, in a chart the 9th lord going in 8th House shows the promise of the native going in adoption. regards, C.S. Ravindramani Send FREE video emails in Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Dear Ravindramani, Three cases known to me...none have 9th lord in 8th! One native adopted the children of her (deceased) elder sister. One had an elder sibling that was adopted, and the other was adopted. In each case Saturn is significant. I'll give you the data of all three (not in any order)...I'm sure you'll be able to (easily) see which is which :-) PS: One native was fostered but never adopted. !) 1 Jul 1949 (00:15) Melbourne, Australia 2) 4 Sep 1943 (17:35) "" "" 3) 4 Sep 1943 (16.20) "" "" Best Wishes,Wendy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ravindramani writes: 9-01-2002 1055 IST Dear Wendy, May I request you to kindly throw light on adoption issue a little further. What are the possibble planetary positions which you have seen in your experience for adoption in a nativity. Generally, in a chart the 9th lord going in 8th House shows the promise of the native going in adoption. regards, C.S. Ravindramani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 Dear Ravindramani, Three cases known to me...none have 9th lord in 8th! One native adopted the children of her (deceased) elder sister. One had an elder sibling that was adopted, and the other was adopted. In each case Saturn is significant. I'll give you the data of all three (not in any order)...I'm sure you'll be able to (easily) see which is which :-) PS: One native was fostered but never adopted. !) 1 Jul 1949 (00:15) Melbourne, Australia 2) 4 Sep 1943 (17:35) "" "" 3) 4 Sep 1943 (16.20) "" "" Ravindramani writes: Dear Ms. Wendy, Thank you for your data. You are right. All charts cannot show all kind of combinations of adoption. So far as my understanding goes (you will kindly appreciate mine is a very limited one J). 8th house stands for longevity and acts as 12th house if we consider the 9th house as lagna. 12th house also stands for longevity indirectly as a native dies, his longevity comes to an end. 8th house and the 12th house and their lords thus act as the terminators of relationships with somebody or something and deciding the length of the relationship. 9th house stands for father, guru, and religion. Whenever the 9th lord’s connection with 8th house shows the relationship between the native and the native is ending and something new is being cropped up or adopted. (Consider the mutual exchange between the 8th lord and the 9th lord). Any lord and his connection with the 8th house and 8th lord will have the possibility of termination of the concerned relationship. For example, the exchange of 5th lord and the 8th lord shows the end of relationship between the native and his progeny at one point of time even though they are physically living. Shri K.N. Rao has discussed in one of his books this combination i.e. 9th lord in 8th and adoption. Mr. Narashimha Rao, who was the Prime Minister of India, has gone into adoption. His 9th Lord is in 8th. I remember, Shri K.N. Rao, has given more than 3 examples in his book. The exchange of 8th and 9th lords even give the promise to the native that he can adopt a new religion or a guru than that of his own. My grandfather was adopted by his own sister,his 9th lord is in 8th. (as told by my father) My father’s maternal uncle was adopted by his own sister, his 9th lord is in 8th. (the data I will post you subsequently as they are not readily available with me. I have to fish them out from my native place and I am residing 2000 kms away from my native and they are no more now.) One more interesting combination for adoption as told by my uncle who knows astrology and never practises professionally. The connection between the 6 and 11th lords and the 2nd house and the strong influence of Rahu on 2nd house. We all know the element of “foreignness” of 6th and 11th and Rahu. If lagna lord also getting connected it is highly certain the native goes in adoption. Here 2nd house stands for the immediate family after one’s birth. Such strong influence on second house will naturally show the possibility of the native to adopt a foreign family as that of his own than his original one. This I have to put in test in practical horoscopes. Yes Saturn in 5th house gives the native the promise of going into adoption. I wonder why it is so. You are also telling the same significant role of saturn in adoption and with data. When I was taught, "at the time conception, (if it is night time) Saturn takes the role of father to the native and moon the mother" by a teacher, generally we know Sun represents father, I wonder how this dictum can be used in natal charts. May be taking the role of father Saturn gives the promise of adoption to one. Hindu astrology is unfathomable indeed.! regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Send FREE video emails in Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 dear ravindramani you are right. lwt me give you what parasara said from bphs .. If Putr's Lord is in Vyaya Bhava, the native will be bereft of happiness from his own sons, will have an adopted, or purchased son. this is from the chapter on effect of bhava lords thank you for posting. best regards partha gjlist, ravindramani <ravindramani> wrote: > > > Wendy Vasicek <wenvas@d...> wrote: Dear Ravindramani,Three cases known to me...none have 9th lord in 8th!One native adopted the children of her (deceased) elder sister. One had an elder sibling that was adopted, and the other was adopted. In each case Saturn is significant.I'll give you the data of all three (not in any order)...I'm sure you'll be able to (easily) see which is which :-) PS: One native was fostered but never adopted. !) 1 Jul 1949 (00:15) Melbourne, Australia2) 4 Sep 1943 (17:35) "" ""3) 4 Sep 1943 (16.20) "" "" Ravindramani writes: > Dear Ms. Wendy, > > Thank you for your data. You are right. All charts cannot show all kind of combinations of adoption. So far as my understanding goes (you will kindly appreciate mine is a very limited one J). > > 8th house stands for longevity and acts as 12th house if we consider the 9th house as lagna. > 12th house also stands for longevity indirectly as a native dies, his longevity comes to an end. > 8th house and the 12th house and their lords thus act as the terminators of relationships with somebody or something and deciding the length of the relationship. > 9th house stands for father, guru, and religion. > Whenever the 9th lord's connection with 8th house shows the relationship between the native and the native is ending and something new is being cropped up or adopted. (Consider the mutual exchange between the 8th lord and the 9th lord). > Any lord and his connection with the 8th house and 8th lord will have the possibility of termination of the concerned relationship. For example, the exchange of 5th lord and the 8th lord shows the end of relationship between the native and his progeny at one point of time even though they are physically living. > > Shri K.N. Rao has discussed in one of his books this combination i.e. 9th lord in 8th and adoption. Mr. Narashimha Rao, who was the Prime Minister of India, has gone into adoption. His 9th Lord is in 8th. I remember, Shri K.N. Rao, has given more than 3 examples in his book. The exchange of 8th and 9th lords even give the promise to the native that he can adopt a new religion or a guru than that of his own. > My grandfather was adopted by his own sister,his 9th lord is in 8th. (as told by my father) > My father's maternal uncle was adopted by his own sister, his 9th lord is in 8th. (the data I will post you subsequently as they are not readily available with me. I have to fish them out from my native place and I am residing 2000 kms away from my native and they are no more now.) > > One more interesting combination for adoption as told by my uncle who knows astrology and never practises professionally. > > The connection between the 6 and 11th lords and the 2nd house and the strong influence of Rahu on 2nd house. We all know the element of "foreignness" of 6th and 11th and Rahu. If lagna lord also getting connected it is highly certain the native goes in adoption. Here 2nd house stands for the immediate family after one's birth. Such strong influence on second house will naturally show the possibility of the native to adopt a foreign family as that of his own than his original one. This I have to put in test in practical horoscopes. > > Yes Saturn in 5th house gives the native the promise of going into adoption. I wonder why it is so. You are also telling the same significant role of saturn in adoption and with data. > > When I was taught, "at the time conception, (if it is night time) Saturn takes the role of father to the native and moon the mother" by a teacher, generally we know Sun represents father, I wonder how this dictum can be used in natal charts. May be taking the role of father Saturn gives the promise of adoption to one. Hindu astrology is unfathomable indeed.! > > regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > > > > Send FREE video emails in Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 Dear Ravindramani, Thank you so much for that. I'd be interested in seeing some examples of adoption if you (or anyone else) has them to offer. If I may just show the significance of Saturn in the examples below: 1) 1 Jul 1949 (00:15) Melbourne, Australia 2) 4 Sep 1943 (17:35) "" "" 3) 4 Sep 1943 (16.20) "" "" Example 1. (00:15) has an adopted elder sibling. For this native Saturn, not only owns the 11th house of elder sibling, but is the dispositor of Jupiter (elder sibling). 6th house as we know governs Step-Mother...Saturn is conjunct Moon in 6th house. Example 2. (17:35) adopted her deceased (elder) sibling's children. She has lagnesh Saturn in 5th house of children whilst 5th lord has gone to the 8th. Example 3. (16:20) has lagnesh Saturn in 6th house of Step-Mother with Sun and Venus in 8th. I think what we find here is that Saturn plays a significant role, as does the related lords/planetary significators being relegated to the 8th. Best Wishes,Wendy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ravindramani writes: Dear Ms. Wendy, Thank you for your data. You are right. All charts cannot show all kind of combinations of adoption. So far as my understanding goes (you will kindly appreciate mine is a very limited one J). 8th house stands for longevity and acts as 12th house if we consider the 9th house as lagna. 12th house also stands for longevity indirectly as a native dies, his longevity comes to an end. 8th house and the 12th house and their lords thus act as the terminators of relationships with somebody or something and deciding the length of the relationship. 9th house stands for father, guru, and religion. Whenever the 9th lord’s connection with 8th house shows the relationship between the native and the native is ending and something new is being cropped up or adopted. (Consider the mutual exchange between the 8th lord and the 9th lord). Any lord and his connection with the 8th house and 8th lord will have the possibility of termination of the concerned relationship. For example, the exchange of 5th lord and the 8th lord shows the end of relationship between the native and his progeny at one point of time even though they are physically living. Shri K.N. Rao has discussed in one of his books this combination i.e. 9th lord in 8th and adoption. Mr. Narashimha Rao, who was the Prime Minister of India, has gone into adoption. His 9th Lord is in 8th. I remember, Shri K.N. Rao, has given more than 3 examples in his book. The exchange of 8th and 9th lords even give the promise to the native that he can adopt a new religion or a guru than that of his own. My grandfather was adopted by his own sister,his 9th lord is in 8th. (as told by my father) My father’s maternal uncle was adopted by his own sister, his 9th lord is in 8th. (the data I will post you subsequently as they are not readily available with me. I have to fish them out from my native place and I am residing 2000 kms away from my native and they are no more now.) One more interesting combination for adoption as told by my uncle who knows astrology and never practises professionally. The connection between the 6 and 11th lords and the 2nd house and the strong influence of Rahu on 2nd house. We all know the element of “foreignness” of 6th and 11th and Rahu. If lagna lord also getting connected it is highly certain the native goes in adoption. Here 2nd house stands for the immediate family after one’s birth. Such strong influence on second house will naturally show the possibility of the native to adopt a foreign family as that of his own than his original one. This I have to put in test in practical horoscopes. Yes Saturn in 5th house gives the native the promise of going into adoption. I wonder why it is so. You are also telling the same significant role of saturn in adoption and with data. When I was taught, "at the time conception, (if it is night time) Saturn takes the role of father to the native and moon the mother" by a teacher, generally we know Sun represents father, I wonder how this dictum can be used in natal charts. May be taking the role of father Saturn gives the promise of adoption to one. Hindu astrology is unfathomable indeed.! regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 Dear Wendy and Ravindramani, This is very interesting. Thanks for these examples. Wendy, in looking for adoption in a chart, would it necessarily need to be only 'legal' adoption. If someone "adopted" a child and raised it but never legalized this, how would that show differently (if so - perhaps not?)? Also, which house governs step-father? Would it be the 11th? Best thoughts, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Dear Patrice, In answer to your question re; legal adoption as apposed to fostering. The charts I offered also shed some light on that. The Chart 2. native (who adopted her sister's children) was herself fostered but never legally adopted. Chart 3. native was (officially) adopted immediately. I have always been taught that the 11th house governs Step-Father. If you take the 10th as Father (as I do) then 11th is 3rd from 10th. Best Wishes,Wendy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Wendy and Ravindramani, This is very interesting. Thanks for these examples. Wendy, in looking for adoption in a chart, would it necessarily need to be only 'legal' adoption. If someone "adopted" a child and raised it but never legalized this, how would that show differently (if so - perhaps not?)? Also, which house governs step-father? Would it be the 11th? Best thoughts, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Dear Patrice, >>I have always been taught that the 11th house governs Step-Father. If you take the 10th as Father (as I do) then 11th is 3rd from 10th.<< My apologies! Once again I'm caught sleeping...that should read 12th house. Best Wishes,Wendy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Dear Wendy, Thank you for your swift reply. I'm drawn into this and must get to bed. Your quick answer will let me stop my 'figuring' this when I go to sleep in a minute here ;-) I can offer you my son's birth data (third child) who has been fostered since very young by my husband. 4 September 1980 (22:53) Honolulu, Hawaii. Again, thanks for your clear answer and response. Best thoughts, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Namaste Wendy would you mind re-confirming your thoughts on which House is ruled by 'Step-Father'? You seem to have mentioned 11th initially and then 12th? Would assume the reason for 3rd from 'natural' Father's house would be to imply a 'brotherly' type relationship between them? Best wishes as ever ...... Jai Sita Ram Ram > > Wendy Vasicek [sMTP:wenvas] > Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:17 AM > gjlist > Re: [GJ] adoption-reg. > > Dear Patrice, > > >>I have always been taught that the 11th house governs Step-Father. If > you take the 10th as Father (as I do) then 11th is 3rd from 10th.<< > > My apologies! Once again I'm caught sleeping...that should read 12th > house. > > Best Wishes, > Wendy > This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC, unless specifically stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Dear Ram, Yes! I'm afraid I often have mental slips like that, sorry! I take 10th house (7th from 4th) as Father, and 12th house (3rd from 10th) as Step-Father (Father's brother). In the same way 6th house, being 3rd from 4th, denotes Step-Mother (Mother's sister). Of course blood brother/sister is implied, but embraces the wider concept of "brother of man/woman". PS: Father as spiritual preceptor etc., is seen (as I've been taught) from 9th house. In India of course, this is more often the case than it is here in the West. Best Wishes,Wendy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Namaste Wendywould you mind re-confirming your thoughts on which House is ruled by'Step-Father'? You seem to have mentioned 11th initially and then 12th?Would assume the reason for 3rd from 'natural' Father's house would be toimply a 'brotherly' type relationship between them? Best wishes as ever ......Jai Sita RamRam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 Namaste Wendy thank you for the clarification - I won't task you for the reasons for selecting 10th Hse for Father as it is 'obviously' contentious. But it is nice to know your thoughts!! Best wishes as ever ..... Jai Sita Ram Ram > > Wendy Vasicek [sMTP:wenvas] > Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:07 AM > gjlist > Re: [GJ] adoption-reg. > > Dear Ram, > Yes! I'm afraid I often have mental slips like that, sorry! > I take 10th house (7th from 4th) as Father, and 12th house (3rd from 10th) > as Step-Father (Father's brother). In the same way 6th house, being 3rd > from 4th, denotes Step-Mother (Mother's sister). Of course blood > brother/sister is implied, but embraces the wider concept of "brother of > man/woman". > > PS: Father as spiritual preceptor etc., is seen (as I've been taught) from > 9th house. In India of course, this is more often the case than it is here > in the West. > > Best Wishes, > Wendy > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Wendy Vasicek: Vedic Astrologer > <http://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/> > <JyotishVidya> > wenvas <wenvas > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Namaste Wendy > > would you mind re-confirming your thoughts on which House is ruled > by > 'Step-Father'? You seem to have mentioned 11th initially and then > 12th? > Would assume the reason for 3rd from 'natural' Father's house would > be to > imply a 'brotherly' type relationship between them? > > Best wishes as ever ...... > > Jai Sita Ram > > Ram > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > <http://www.goravani.com> > > > Terms of Service > <>. This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC, unless specifically stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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