Adoption

[Guest guest]

Dear Patrice, Wendy, et al -

 

I've been over the top with clients and writing projects, such that I

haven't been able to contribute here in a while. Anyway, the topic of

adoption is interesting to me, given that I was [legally] adopted at birth,

and so was my elder brother. Here are our data as follows, for your

research:

 

Myself

9/18/1947

08:25:37 PST

San Francisco, CA., USA

 

My brother

1/23/1946

07:31 PST

Oakland, CA., USA

 

Now, the consistencies in these charts (as well as in the charts of many

adopted people that I have studied over the years) are these: Lords of 4th

and 9th, their dispositors, or karakas, are in the 6th, 8th, and 12th

houses. These consistencies you will find over and over again in the

charts of adopted people. Karakas being used in this example, are

Naiskargika, or natural karakas, viz. Sun and Moon for father and mother

respectively. So, in my case, the dispositor of the Moon, as well as 9th

lord, and the Sun, are in the 12th house. In the case of my brother, 4th

lord is in the 6th, and 9th lord is in the 12th, and dispositor of the Moon

is in the 12th. Try the formula given here in as many charts of adopted

people as you can find, and you will see a pattern emerging.

 

Best wishes,

Robert

 

=====================================

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

Phone: 541-318-0248

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

rk. rk and

rkoch rkoch

[Guest guest]

Thank You for your input Robert,

I'll go over the points you brought up later on when I have a bit more time up

my sleeve. I'm continually amazed at how differently we view a horoscope, but

still come up with similar results :-0

 

Once again (at first glance) I see the influence of Saturn. You have 4th lord

Saturn aspecting Sun in 12th, from 10th house of "Father"...significantly

Saturn is receiving an aspect from 6th lord Jupiter. The influence of Saturn is

quite evident, don't you agree, with 4th lord Saturn (Mother) being aspected by

6th lord Jupiter (Step-Mother).

 

Your brother (like the example I gave) has lagnesh Saturn in 6th. He also has

Saturn's dispositor Mercury in 12th house of Step-Father, and in the example I

gave (my chart by the way), 12th lord Jupiter aspects the ascendant.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Patrice, Wendy, et al -I've been over the top with clients and writing

projects, such that I haven't been able to contribute here in a while. Anyway,

the topic of adoption is interesting to me, given that I was [legally] adopted

at birth, and so was my elder brother. Here are our data as follows, for your

research:Myself9/18/194708:25:37 PSTSan Francisco, CA., USAMy

brother1/23/194607:31 PSTOakland, CA., USANow, the consistencies in these

charts (as well as in the charts of many adopted people that I have studied

over the years) are these: Lords of 4th and 9th, their dispositors, or karakas,

are in the 6th, 8th, and 12th houses. These consistencies you will find over

and over again in the charts of adopted people. Karakas being used in this

example, are Naiskargika, or natural karakas, viz. Sun and Moon for father and

mother respectively. So, in my case, the dispositor of the Moon, as well as

9th lord, and the Sun, are in the 12th house. In the case of my brother, 4th

lord is in the 6th, and 9th lord is in the 12th, and dispositor of the Moon is

in the 12th. Try the formula given here in as many charts of adopted people

as you can find, and you will see a pattern emerging.Best

wishes,Robert=====================================Robert A. Koch, Vedic

AstrologerFaculty Member, SJVC and ACVAPhone: 541-318-0248visit

<http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mailrk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com.

rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com andrkoch (AT) bendnet (DOT) com rkoch (AT) bendnet (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

For those interested in the adoption thread:

 

This native was also adopted, but by his Mother's second husband (after his

Father had died). So, unlike the other charts, the native had a Step-Father

only.

 

Birth Details: 29 June 1948 (08:52 aprox) Que Que (KweKwe) Zimbabwe.

 

Again, the influence of Saturn is there...but influencing "Father" and not

Mother. Note that, although 4th lord is in 12th, it's not being influenced by

Saturn.

 

This native, with Cancer rising, has Saturn aspecting 10th house of Father (from

lagna). I can't help but wonder if just the karakas alone occupying 6th, 8th or

12th without the influence of Saturn would result in adoption? I'm yet to find

such a chart :-)

An interesting point also is that this native had elder Step-Brothers (the

natural children of his step-father). Although this native's mother raised the

step-brothers she never legally adopted them as they already had their fathers

name.

Note 6th lord Jupiter aspecting 11th house of elder siblings.

 

Best Wishes,Wendy

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Wendy Vasicek: Vedic

Astrologerhttp://www.members.tripod.com/ganesh_astro/JyotishVidyawenvas (AT) dingoblue (DOT) net.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Hi Robert and All!

I was looking at Chapter 12, Shloka 8 Phaladeepika where I found two

yogas of Adoption.

They are as follows:

 

1) If the 5th house is Gemini, Virgo, Capricorn or Aquarius. And if

Mandi or Saturn are posited in those houses or if they aspect the 5th

house. Then the person has kids thru Adoption.

 

2) If the 5th house is week and there is no PAC with the Lagna Lord

or the 7th Lord. Then the person has kids thru Adoption.

 

So here as Wendy has mentioned about the relation of Saturn to the

5th house it seems evident from the above. Also Mandi (Gulika), is

son of Saturn. So here also they are related to the 5th house.

I didn't had time to look at Robert's Chart. But I hope this is

helpful.

Thanks

Deepak

 

 

 

gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rkoch@b...> wrote:

> Dear Patrice, Wendy, et al -

>

> I've been over the top with clients and writing projects, such that

I

> haven't been able to contribute here in a while. Anyway, the topic

of

> adoption is interesting to me, given that I was [legally] adopted

at birth,

> and so was my elder brother. Here are our data as follows, for

your

> research:

>

> Myself

> 9/18/1947

> 08:25:37 PST

> San Francisco, CA., USA

>

> My brother

> 1/23/1946

> 07:31 PST

> Oakland, CA., USA

>

> Now, the consistencies in these charts (as well as in the charts of

many

> adopted people that I have studied over the years) are these: Lords

of 4th

> and 9th, their dispositors, or karakas, are in the 6th, 8th, and

12th

> houses. These consistencies you will find over and over again in

the

> charts of adopted people. Karakas being used in this example, are

> Naiskargika, or natural karakas, viz. Sun and Moon for father and

mother

> respectively. So, in my case, the dispositor of the Moon, as well

as 9th

> lord, and the Sun, are in the 12th house. In the case of my

brother, 4th

> lord is in the 6th, and 9th lord is in the 12th, and dispositor of

the Moon

> is in the 12th. Try the formula given here in as many charts of

adopted

> people as you can find, and you will see a pattern emerging.

>

> Best wishes,

> Robert

>

> =====================================

> Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> Phone: 541-318-0248

> visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> or e-mail

> rk@r... rk@r... and

> rkoch@b... rkoch@b...

[Guest guest]

1) If the 5th house is Gemini, Virgo, Capricorn or Aquarius. And if Mandi or

Saturn are posited in those houses or if they aspect the 5th house. Then the

person has kids thru Adoption.2) If the 5th house is week and there is no PAC

with the Lagna Lord or the 7th Lord. Then the person has kids thru Adoption.

Ravindramani writes 12-1-2002, 1320 hrs IST

It is quite understandable because those signs are owned by neutral planets

(eunuch) i.e. Mercury and Saturn. If they again happens to be posited there

means the intensity of the element of neutrality is getting increased.

In such a position, if saturn or mercury aspects that 5th house, naturally the

native's prospects of getting his own child is becoming bleak.

Lagna lord definitely increase the prospects of any house if he is getting

connected. He has to protect the interest of the native in a general manner.

Children is the result of obvious culmination of 7th house and lagna. When the

5th house is also weak, then the adoption is the only way left open to the

native.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani

 

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[Guest guest]

Juliana Swanson wrote:

Dear List Members,

Is anyone aware of astrological research or scriptural references that may

indicate certain themes or signatures in the natal horoscopes of adoptees? I am

not asking about the charts of parents who adopt children; instead, I am curious

about individuals who have been adopted. I took a perfunctory look at a half

dozen adoptee charts and saw nothing thematic, not even the presence of

Krittika Nakshatra, which I had thought might play a common role.

Thanks very much,

Juliana S.

Hi Juliana,

In the charts of my clients who have been adopted, I have often seen

afflictions to the luminaries (Sun and Moon) as karaka's for father and

mother.

I also recall a number of Sun/Saturn's and Moon/Saturn's. Two of the

most recent charts both had Moon/Node conjunction, one with this

combination opposite Saturn, the other receiving the square of Saturn.

The Astrodatabank has 155 charts of adopted children in the AA to A

category of birth data.

Sun/Node and Moon/Node are high when compared to other aspects(nothing

here though to a statistical certainty).

Of the 155 charts, the Moon is highest in Nakshatras 17 and 26 (both

Saturn nakshatras) and occupies all Saturn nakshatras more frequently

than other ruled nakshatras. (Lahiri ayanamsa).

28 charts or 18% have the Moon in a Saturn nakshatra(the average here

would be approx 17 charts or 11%)

Lord of 4th (for mother) is found most often in the 6th house, while

lord of 9th (for father) is found most often either in the 8th or 12th

house. (using Whole Signs or the Rasi chakra)

Saturn is found most often in the 4th house using Whole Signs, while it

is found most often in the 1st house when using the Bhava Chakra.

Additionally, the lords of the Dusthana houses (6,8,12) are found more

often in the combined Kendras (angular houses), rather than the

Panaphara (succeedent) or the Apoklima (cadent) houses.

Keep in mind of course that these results are based upon 155 charts and

might change significantly if many more charts were added to the mix.

Best wishes,

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hullo Juliana, Steven & other respected members,

 

I`m giving 2 birth details. These belong to a set of 2 eggs, male twins. One of

them was taken away at two

& a half years & brought up by the father`s sister. He never went back to his

biological mother except for rare &

traumatic visits. Is happily married & lives in his own home in another city.

The other went to a home for abandoned children & later returned to live with

his mother, is a bachelor,

never to leave her to this day.

If anyone would kindly put some light on adoption differences as indicated by

the planets despite being twins, then it would be a most informative &

interesting excersize & deffinately appriciated.

 

1) 25 oct 1946 @ 06.58 am Zurich Switzerland.

2) 25 oct 1946 @ 06.00am Zurich Switzerland.

 

----

 

Steven Stuckey

03/29/06 06:31:47

valist

Re: Adoption

Juliana Swanson wrote:

Dear List Members,

Is anyone aware of astrological research or scriptural references that may

indicate certain themes or signatures in the natal horoscopes of adoptees? I am

not asking about the charts of parents who adopt children; instead, I am curious

about individuals who have been adopted. I took a perfunctory look at a half

dozen adoptee charts and saw nothing thematic, not even the presence of

Krittika Nakshatra, which I had thought might play a common role.

Thanks very much,

Juliana S.

Hi Juliana,In the charts of my clients who have been adopted, I have often seen

afflictions to the luminaries (Sun and Moon) as karaka's for father and

mother.I also recall a number of Sun/Saturn's and Moon/Saturn's. Two of the

most recent charts both had Moon/Node conjunction, one with this combination

opposite Saturn, the other receiving the square of Saturn.The Astrodatabank has

155 charts of adopted children in the AA to A category of birth data.Sun/Node

and Moon/Node are high when compared to other aspects(nothing here though to a

statistical certainty).Of the 155 charts, the Moon is highest in Nakshatras 17

and 26 (both Saturn nakshatras) and occupies all Saturn nakshatras more

frequently than other ruled nakshatras. (Lahiri ayanamsa).28 charts or 18% have

the Moon in a Saturn nakshatra(the average here would be approx 17 charts or

11%)Lord of 4th (for mother) is found most often in the 6th house, while lord

of 9th (for father) is found most often either in the 8th or 12th house. (using

Whole Signs or the Rasi chakra) Saturn is found most often in the 4th house

using Whole Signs, while it is found most often in the 1st house when using the

Bhava Chakra.Additionally, the lords of the Dusthana houses (6,8,12) are found

more often in the combined Kendras (angular houses), rather than the Panaphara

(succeedent) or the Apoklima (cadent) houses.Keep in mind of course that these

results are based upon 155 charts and might change significantly if many more

charts were added to the mix.Best wishes,Steve

 

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[Guest guest]

Juliana Swanson wrote:

Dear Steven,

Thank you very much for sharing this interesting research which is more than I dreamed of receiving.

For my benefit and that of any other interested members, would it be possible

for you to briefly highlight the steps one should go through to compile this

kind of information in ADB? For instance, you probably have to create a filter

first and then what window do you open to insert your research criteria?

Hi Juliana,

The main software I use for these types of results is called"JigSaw",

created by Esoteric Technologies (the same company that created Solar

Fire). I also use the ADB of course (AstrodataBank)

I normally set up a filter first in the ADB, specifying the type of

data I want to look at. Under "Birth" in the ADB filter section, there

is a category for "Adopted Children). I then specify the birth data

source (in this case only AA or A type data i.e. from the birth record

or from memory)

This gets you 155 charts of adopted children.

You can look at the data in the ADB itself (I currently have version

3), but I believe version 4 is much more research oriented. In version

3 though, you have to create an entire separate database for each

ayanamsa, house system and other parameters that you want to look at

and work between the various databases. For instance, if you want to

see whole sign houses (the Rasi chart) you would use one database, for

the Bhava chart you would have to use another.

Many of the more simple things you can easily look at--for instance

planets in various nakshatras, planets in houses, planets in aspects

etc.

However, the above process is often very slow and it is difficult to

get an instant grasp of the data you are viewing. That's why I have in

addition, the JigSaw software.

After filtering the data I want to view in the ADB, I simply export it

into Jigsaw.

Jigsaw allows you to view the data in bar gragh, polar graph and

tabulation form. You can instantly view planets by sign, house, aspect,

declination, latitude, and many other ways including nakshatras (if you

know how to tweak it--and even pada's). This information will

immediately appear in a graph form for making quick assessments.

You can also instantly switch from one ayanamsa, house system, etc to

see where differences are occurring. If you should want to see a

certain

set of data, for instance the charts where Moon is occupying Anuradha,

you can create another filter and separate those specific charts for

subjecting to different tests Often I will take a certain specific

subset of charts and export them back into Solar Fire to view the chart

separately.

Hope this helps,

Best wishes,

Steve

[Guest guest]

charts of my clients who have been adopted, I have often seen afflictions to the

luminaries (Sun and Moon) as karaka's for father and mother.I also recall a

number of Sun/Saturn's and Moon/Saturn's. Two of the most recent charts both

had Moon/Node conjunction, one with this combination opposite Saturn, the other

receiving the square of Saturn.The Astrodatabank has 155 charts of adopted

children in the AA to A category of birth data.Sun/Node and Moon/Node are high

when compared to other aspects(nothing here though to a statistical

certainty).Of the 155 charts, the Moon is highest in Nakshatras 17 and 26 (both

Saturn nakshatras) and occupies all Saturn nakshatras more frequently than other

ruled nakshatras. (Lahiri ayanamsa).28 charts or 18% have the Moon in a Saturn

nakshatra(the average here would be approx 17 charts or 11%)Lord of 4th (for

mother) is found most often in the 6th house, while lord of 9th (for father) is

found most

often either in the 8th or 12th house. (using Whole Signs or the Rasi chakra)

Saturn is found most often in the 4th house using Whole Signs, while it is

found most often in the 1st house when using the Bhava Chakra.Additionally, the

lords of the Dusthana houses (6,8,12) are found more often in the combined

Kendras (angular houses), rather than the Panaphara (succeedent) or the

Apoklima (cadent) houses.Keep in mind of course that these results are based

upon 155 charts and might change significantly if many more charts were added

to the mix.Best wishes,Steve

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