CALENDARS

June 16, 2002

Dear Nadia,

I thank you profoundly for your posting. It is exactly this kind of

thing that interests me very much.

In these short writings of kings, bishops and the like, we find the

moods that drove history.

Think of it... it was that particular thinking, about the issue of "the

heathens" and their Mithra, and then the "sweet pure jesus" of the

"righteous and saved" class...

Yes, Christianity, in and of itself alone, provides the follower with

little to use for anything- food, symbology, dating, calendar style,

events, culture, just everything is lacking. So of course they had to

borrow or invent, so they tactfully did at each step what made the most

sense.

I don't blame any people or religion at this time or in the past. But I

think we should, now that we can discuss like this worldwide, go ahead

and take the opportunity to start to undo some of the madness that took

place when people were challenged in ways we no longer are.

So, more specifically, the limited, restrictive, disassciating from

Earth, moralistic, sanctimonious religion known as Christianity, which

basically overthrew all others all over the European continent South to

North en total, and now the American continent in kind...

Well, it can now be questioned. We couldn't do that before. We would be

hung, burned, whipped, killed, whatever. But now there are definite

freedoms, that have been tested in the US especially, and we can say

what we want to say, freely, at least without legal problems from the

government, though angry citizens, fanatics, that's another thing.

But I do question what happened back then, and why everything but

Christianity was pretty much lost all over Europe... Turned into myth,

and other things we love to forget and move on from.

But somehow, modern mankind the world over seems pretty lost to me,

without a rudder of any sort, sortof just waiting to see what happens

next, from their collective economic crash dive towards the world of

utter pleasure, fascinaton with stupid electronics related to killing,

and collective confusion about what life is for. It seems to me

everybody is in a state of watch and gossip. Nobody is very generative,

commanding, forceful, caring, missionary, servile. It's like the

components of heroism are not in vogue in America. Only consumerism is

in right now Amongst pretty much all the active age categories, from say

childhood on up to 50. Above 50 you start to hit the ex hippies, who are

still caring.

But most people below fifty in America have a general agenda that does

not include philanthropy, public service, community interaction, and so

on, at all. It's pretty bad right now, if you ask my opinion. Of course,

we are in the planetary cycles that last time saw us in massive world

war. So I guess we should be thankful that we're all just feeling lousy,

instead of we're all shooting each other. (knock on wood)

Personally, to give a hint where my mind is at on certain things related

to these matters at this time: Read Paul's letter to the Galatians with

a very critical mind towards him, and see what arises in you. See his

prejudice, his need to justify his own life of killing and then

surrendering to Christ, HIS Need to be forgiven, HIS complete and utter

disregard for the culture and religion of the Celts, to whom he was

speaking, see his constant reference to things only Jews need deal with

or care about, and think about how those things, were basically brought

to us by this one person and his mood, which spread, his teachings,

which spread.

And everything that was before that religion, that understanding of his,

went bye bye. Paul's Letter to the Galatians speaks volumes as to the

nature of the foundation of Christianity and it's mood towards other

peoples, towards the natural societies of the world, towards the

cultures that have respect for the natural pantheon of Gods as all

cultures seemingly used to have reverence for, before Paul, before his

mission.

See his mood, in his own hand, hear him speak his mission, his mood, his

mind, his will, and see it first hand. Read this part of the New

Testament 3 times if you are of Celtic descent. This letter is like a

condensed form, like the Zenith Crystal, the manifesto magnifico, of the

Judeo-Christian overthrow of Europe. I say Judeo, because especially in

Saul/Paul, we have a Jew with an extreme agenda, both before and after

conversion. From Killer to Savior of the World from paganism.

Some of us might say instead, from killer of christians, to killer of

non christian religions and cultures by accident, woops, while trying to

do good for Christ, the lamb of God, and all those other Jewish

conceptions which really have no place in Europe, where the Celts and

others were living without ever being Jews, and not needing it either,

for a very long time before Saul/Paul's problems with guilt and Jewish

law based fixes and other delusions Europe didn't need or want.

Just because the people of the mediteranean, and southern europe, didn't

like the gauls, the gauls no longer exist. Simple. So I think it's

important to realize a genocide of a culture did take place. The Irish

stuff made by the Celts and Monks was a last ditch effort to document

the culture about to vanish in 700 AD and is therefore proof via ergo

sum, or it exists, therefore, all this happened.

As a Christian who has become a Hindu, but still lives here, and cares

about his own people, say Irish, or White, or American, whatever, OK, so

I'm looking at this situation, and I think, boy, the Western World could

sure spiritually benefit by being exposed to that which was taken from

them. They don't even know it was their ancestor's heritage, and

therefore their natural birthrite. Amazing. And I'm just tickled pink

that so much of what was Celtic aligns with Vedic. It's OK with me that

I don't like everything Celtic.

Also, the Mithra worshippers, as you pointed out, were great in number

then, a big competitor to Christianity, as the writings of that

clergyman indicated, so, twas of course not only Celts who were

culturally exterminated by the prejudices of the new converts to the

spiritually high calling but culturally devoid religion of Christianity.

And the fact is, hardly nobody can follow the highest callings, and so,

real religions have gradations, as does Veda, as did Celts.

Now, the fact that hourdes of golden offering were found... let us

think, is it good that humans are throwing gold in a river asking for

some help from God?

I don't really see how that's harmful. The Gold is obviously still

there, until we clear it all out for museums and the like.

Myself, I say, better to pray internally, all this external stuff is not

for me, but then again, I'm really into constant service and

rememberance, so I'm more of a Druid/Brahmin/Priest myself I think by

type (not knowledge obviously).

I never did like all that external sadhana either really. I like

thinking, and doing stuff about it. That's me.

Well, I think Christianity spread because of guilt in people, and guilt

is there because of a reason. So these things occured. What can be done.

But now we can re-examine, re-read, re-think, and re-integrate perhaps,

those things which might bring back some of the richness of our past

cultures, which we may have lost.

I think it would be fine if every American started to respect the Earth

more. Nothing wrong with that. If everyone started to think of

everything as inter-twined, of property as borrowed from God, and so on.

We could use that.

Thanks for listening and sharing,

--

Das Goravani , President

2852 Willamette St, #353

Eugene, Oregon, 97405

USA

Voice:

or

<>

Home of "Goravani Jyotish"

Vedic Astrology Software , and more...

June 17, 2002

> Dear Nadia,

>

> I thank you profoundly for your posting. It is exactly this kind of

> thing that interests me very much.

>

> In these short writings of kings, bishops and the like, we find the

> moods that drove history.

>

> Think of it... it was that particular thinking, about the issue of "the

> heathens" and their Mithra, and then the "sweet pure jesus" of the

> "righteous and saved" class...

>

> Yes, Christianity, in and of itself alone, provides the follower with

> little to use for anything- food, symbology, dating, calendar style,

> events, culture, just everything is lacking. So of course they had to

> borrow or invent, so they tactfully did at each step what made the most

> sense.

**** Dear Das, yes they had to borrow because it seems that there are

some concepts which started a long long time ago and that are so universal

in their scope that they could never be wiped out. They just take another

name in order to suit the culture of any given country and period.

I will again mention Mithra (they are other similar exemples but that one is

so striking) who first appears as an Aryan sun-god in Sanskrit and Persian

literature circa 1400 BCE. The cult was introduced into the Roman empire in

the 1st century BCE.

--- born of a virgin in a stable on the winter solstice--frequently December

25 in the Julian calendar (the emperor Aurelian declared December 25 to be

the official birthday of Mithra, circa 270 CE)--attended by shepherds who

brought gifts

--worshiped on Sundays;

--shown with a nimbus, or halo, around his head;

----said to take a last supper with his followers when he returned to his

father;

----believed not to have died, but to have ascended to heaven, whence it was

believed he would return at the end of time to raise the dead in a physical

resurrection for a final judgement, sending the good to heaven and the

wicked to hell, after the world had been destroyed by fire;

to grant his followers immortal life following baptism.

The ceremonies and initiations that where held in his name remind us of the

Mysteries of Eulesis in Greece. Of course Dionysus who is the counterpart

of Siva had also mysteries held in his honour. And older then was Tammuz,

Osiris, Astarte and Isis......

Followers of Mithra:

---Followed a leader called a 'papa' (pope), who ruled from the Vatican hill

in Rome;

----celebrated the atoning death of a savior who has resurrected on a

Sunday;

----celebrated sacramenta (a consecrated meal of bread and wine), termed a

Myazda (corresponding exactly to the Catholic Missa (mass), using chanting,

bells, candles, incense, and holy water, in remembrance of the last supper

of Mithra).

The emperor Constantine was a follower of Mithra until he declared December

25 the official birthday of Jesus in 313 CE and adopted the cult of

Christianity as the state religion.

I do not know if in the US there is great use of the mistletoe during

Christmas. Here in Europe it is very much in use.

Mistletoe is an old Celtic symbol of regeneration and eternal life. The

Romans valued it as a symbol of peace and this eventually led to its usage

as one of the common symbols of Christmas. Kissing under mistletoe was a

Roman custom, due to its' being regarded as a symbol of fertility.

We also find the mistletoe figuring in the Norse story of Balder, and in

medieval legend as the wood from which the Cross was made .... which legend

was probably derived from the Balder story, as it was a twig of mistletoe

that killed him.

Many primitive societies, such as the Ainu of Japan and the Wallas of West

Africa also regarded the mistletoe with veneration.

The list could go on.... I do not know if you are familiar with the books:

--- The white Goddess by Robert Grave

--- The golden Bough by James Frazer

but they are really a must

Also "The masks of God" by Joseph Campbell (in 4 volumes but it's really

worth it as well.)

> I don't blame any people or religion at this time or in the past. But I

> think we should, now that we can discuss like this worldwide, go ahead

> and take the opportunity to start to undo some of the madness that took

> place when people were challenged in ways we no longer are.

>

> So, more specifically, the limited, restrictive, disassciating from

> Earth, moralistic, sanctimonious religion known as Christianity, which

> basically overthrew all others all over the European continent South to

> North en total, and now the American continent in kind...

>

> Well, it can now be questioned. We couldn't do that before. We would be

> hung, burned, whipped, killed, whatever. But now there are definite

> freedoms, that have been tested in the US especially, and we can say

> what we want to say, freely, at least without legal problems from the

> government, though angry citizens, fanatics, that's another thing.

>

> But I do question what happened back then, and why everything but

> Christianity was pretty much lost all over Europe... Turned into myth,

> and other things we love to forget and move on from.

*** I think that we should make a clear difference between faith, religion

and dogma. Unfortunatly when faith becomes dogma and rules that things get

rigid and loose all the original meaning.

> But somehow, modern mankind the world over seems pretty lost to me,

> without a rudder of any sort, sortof just waiting to see what happens

> next, from their collective economic crash dive towards the world of

> utter pleasure, fascinaton with stupid electronics related to killing,

> and collective confusion about what life is for. It seems to me

> everybody is in a state of watch and gossip. Nobody is very generative,

> commanding, forceful, caring, missionary, servile. It's like the

> components of heroism are not in vogue in America. Only consumerism is

> in right now Amongst pretty much all the active age categories, from say

> childhood on up to 50. Above 50 you start to hit the ex hippies, who are

> still caring.

**** Here I really have to smile: you are saying the words of one of my

favotire writer that is Rene Guenon. He died around 50 years ago and one of

his main theme was the harm of so-called modernity . One of his books is

intitled: "La crise du monde moderne". BTW he read sanskrit and wrote great

stuff about the vedas and all sort of symbolism.

I think that some of his books are translated into English.

> But most people below fifty in America have a general agenda that does

> not include philanthropy, public service, community interaction, and so

> on, at all. It's pretty bad right now, if you ask my opinion. Of course,

> we are in the planetary cycles that last time saw us in massive world

> war. So I guess we should be thankful that we're all just feeling lousy,

> instead of we're all shooting each other. (knock on wood)

>

> Personally, to give a hint where my mind is at on certain things related

> to these matters at this time: Read Paul's letter to the Galatians with

> a very critical mind towards him, and see what arises in you. See his

> prejudice, his need to justify his own life of killing and then

> surrendering to Christ, HIS Need to be forgiven, HIS complete and utter

> disregard for the culture and religion of the Celts, to whom he was

> speaking, see his constant reference to things only Jews need deal with

> or care about, and think about how those things, were basically brought

> to us by this one person and his mood, which spread, his teachings,

> which spread.

**** I did.... dear Das and I completly agre with you.You see the problem

stems because of the invention of the original sin. Well in India, China

etc.... this notion does not simply exist. Nor did it in Sumeria and

Babylon. But the semitic people did create that notion of the fall and that

we are punished (!!) for having learned to eat at the tree of

knowledge......So all the need for redemption, forgiveness, sin starts from

this . The Jewish religion started it , than the Christians followed suit.

> And everything that was before that religion, that understanding of his,

> went bye bye. Paul's Letter to the Galatians speaks volumes as to the

> nature of the foundation of Christianity and it's mood towards other

> peoples, towards the natural societies of the world, towards the

> cultures that have respect for the natural pantheon of Gods as all

> cultures seemingly used to have reverence for, before Paul, before his

> mission.

>

> See his mood, in his own hand, hear him speak his mission, his mood, his

> mind, his will, and see it first hand. Read this part of the New

> Testament 3 times if you are of Celtic descent. This letter is like a

> condensed form, like the Zenith Crystal, the manifesto magnifico, of the

> Judeo-Christian overthrow of Europe. I say Judeo, because especially in

> Saul/Paul, we have a Jew with an extreme agenda, both before and after

> conversion. From Killer to Savior of the World from paganism.

>

> Some of us might say instead, from killer of christians, to killer of

> non christian religions and cultures by accident, woops, while trying to

> do good for Christ, the lamb of God, and all those other Jewish

> conceptions which really have no place in Europe, where the Celts and

> others were living without ever being Jews, and not needing it either,

> for a very long time before Saul/Paul's problems with guilt and Jewish

> law based fixes and other delusions Europe didn't need or want.

>

> Just because the people of the mediteranean, and southern europe, didn't

> like the gauls, the gauls no longer exist. Simple. So I think it's

> important to realize a genocide of a culture did take place. The Irish

> stuff made by the Celts and Monks was a last ditch effort to document

> the culture about to vanish in 700 AD and is therefore proof via ergo

> sum, or it exists, therefore, all this happened.

>

> As a Christian who has become a Hindu, but still lives here, and cares

> about his own people, say Irish, or White, or American, whatever, OK, so

> I'm looking at this situation, and I think, boy, the Western World could

> sure spiritually benefit by being exposed to that which was taken from

> them. They don't even know it was their ancestor's heritage, and

> therefore their natural birthrite. Amazing. And I'm just tickled pink

> that so much of what was Celtic aligns with Vedic. It's OK with me that

> I don't like everything Celtic.

>

> Also, the Mithra worshippers, as you pointed out, were great in number

> then, a big competitor to Christianity, as the writings of that

> clergyman indicated, so, twas of course not only Celts who were

> culturally exterminated by the prejudices of the new converts to the

> spiritually high calling but culturally devoid religion of Christianity.

*** eveything that was or is a competitor of the Vatican and co is

exterminated or condemmed. That is for sure.

> And the fact is, hardly nobody can follow the highest callings, and so,

> real religions have gradations, as does Veda, as did Celts.

>

> Now, the fact that hourdes of golden offering were found... let us

> think, is it good that humans are throwing gold in a river asking for

> some help from God?

>

> I don't really see how that's harmful. The Gold is obviously still

> there, until we clear it all out for museums and the like.

*** The Gold is there are you say... it's the Graal that we are all

searching for. Some people are still searching for the Light and the Truth.

That is not so easy as we are really living in the Kali Yuga age , yet I

keep the hope that amid the darkness we can if we will find some meaning and

undergo inner alchemy . Often that has to come with some form of initiation

..

> Myself, I say, better to pray internally, all this external stuff is not

> for me, but then again, I'm really into constant service and

> rememberance, so I'm more of a Druid/Brahmin/Priest myself I think by

> type (not knowledge obviously).

*** You used 2 important key words. About rememberance I will write another

post.

> I never did like all that external sadhana either really. I like

> thinking, and doing stuff about it. That's me.

>

> Well, I think Christianity spread because of guilt in people, and guilt

> is there because of a reason. So these things occured. What can be done.

>

> But now we can re-examine, re-read, re-think, and re-integrate perhaps,

> those things which might bring back some of the richness of our past

> cultures, which we may have lost.

**** Exactly , we have to de- program ourselves. But then most people are so

comfortable with routine and what goes with it that they are very relunctant

to re-view and put themselves in question. Sometimes it can be too painful,

and sometimes it takes too much effort and energy. So not many are those who

are willing to try.

We are not "awake" but most of the time we are sleeping.

> I think it would be fine if every American started to respect the Earth

> more. Nothing wrong with that. If everyone started to think of

> everything as inter-twined, of property as borrowed from God, and so on.

> We could use that.

>

> Thanks for listening and sharing,

*** Thank you Das. Your words are really inspiring and my hope that they

fall into some ears.

Very warmly from Athens, Greece

June 17, 2002

Oh Athena!

How since forever we felt kinship, as I said, as Plato had written, and

so the Druids pointed, all to that same place, west of you there.

I forgive the killer convert missionary who messed up Europe with his

invented religion, but I hope to see some many turning their heads

backwards with me and seeing all the beauty there, and strike a balance

between the modern and the original.

As the Vedas say, and as I think all good and peace loving people know,

let the people's of the world stay within their boundaries and not

invade each others lands. Well this is certainly no longer possible, or

it's been over for a good while, giving rise to much mingling and war on

grand scale.

So now it's different than it ever was here, but still, everyone I come

from, and everyone I love, in their old cultures, which were not so long

ago, worshipped a pantheon of Gods of the planets, as well as the

Supreme, as well as a few others related to nature usually, and believed

in the cycle of rebirth, and other shared things. All of that seems very

believable and natural to me, whereas, the tenets introduced by Paul,

possibly Christ, and Judaeism, to me, are not natural, they don't seem

correct, and I personally am not d there, to that line of faith

in god in that way.

Like Paul says that Idolotry is a "sin of the flesh", or in other words,

coming from the body. And therefore, it gets abolished.

Fine, it does come from the body. Is that so bad? Is it wrong for people

to pray to God for things they want in life? Excuse me, but don't

Christians do that all the time as well? All's he accomplished was got

rid of knowledge of the planets, as well as a mood of our being related

to all of nature intrinsically and spiritually, and replaced it with

essentially nothing.

So the new Christians, who used to be all these other things, go out the

door of the new Church, with no cultural understandings left about life

to guide their societies.

I now live in a country where I do not know the names, addresses,

telephone numbers, and nothing else at all of course, about any of my

neighbors. Not because I don't have time, not because I'm scared, no,

none of us are interested, because we're all so friggin different.

There's no guarantee that we share anything at all in common in thought

or interests.

This America, it's like a global hotel. Everybody is checked into the

various houses like hotel rooms, they pay their rent to the bank, which

is ultimately owned uphill the private corporation owned by old families

known as the Federal Reserve (it's neither), and in this way, you could

be next door to someone with a completely different background, set of

values and beliefs, and so on. So nobody bothers anymore. Nobody. I've

lived in neighborhoods all over, and it's always the same in middle

class neighborhoods, more or less, at least on the West Coast. It's

really impersonal. If you realize private families profit from the

entire economy through the federal reserve, that may explain why

immigration into America is still being allowed despite most citizens

complete upset at the growing congestion in the big cities due to the

massive increase in numbers of foreignors over the years, combined with

the countries own baby boom. The more taxpayers, the more profit, it's a

worker thing, modern style slavery. The more you work, the better off

they are, because they have more rooms of people paying rent to them.

(Let it blow by. Conspiracy theories about the Fed abound. I'm just good

at repeating them. I never bother thinking much about it. Unless you're

willing to really be an underdog and live in prison or die, why bother.

This kind of bantering is being done here by a handful, and I think they

may be quite correct based on what I know about Trust and Corporate Law,

but still, taking down the Fed? Uh, not a small task eh?)

So no culture shared means no relationships, unfortunately. Everyone is

alone in their houses and apartments next door to each other, but it's

taboo to knock, cuzz YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT ANSWER THE DOOR.... THEY

MIGHT EVEN BE, huh, BLACK !!!! or WHITE !!!!! or HARE

KRISHNA !!!!!

One reason I loved being in Hare Krishna, was wherever I went I had

instant family. That was so nice. All over the world, instant friends as

soon as you arrive at any temple. So cool.

The Celts, Greeks and Indians were all in heavy communication back then,

and that's probably why they advanced in many similar things, but of

course, India's just a friggin storehouse of all the sciences...

Galatia, interestingly, is really a Celtic/Greek enclave is it not?

Kindof special, a bit of both worlds, correct?

By the way, I'm into all these things because of how they relate to the

history of spiritual ontology on this planet.

One person asked privately why I'm being so mundane about my bodily

ancestry. That is not at all my interest. I do not see life that way.

I'm into this for fun a wee bit sure, but mainly for the interesting

aspects of the philosophical stuff... how much was common, WHAT was

common, how it enhances my understanding of life and truth, and so on. I

don't really think I'm a Celt. We pretty much know that Celtic blood is

pretty much a myth in way, for a long time now. Really nobody can know

they have original Celtic blood. It's been so intermarried for thousands

of years.

I really should go find a house. Gotta move. Life is a vacuum cleaner

for me these years. It just kinda s)(*)_()(+ all the time, and that's

about it. It's not my fault, it's my karma ;-*

June 17, 2002

Let's remember the past

Dionysus

His name means "lame god".

His name means also "twice born" or "child of the double door."

Dionysus is one of the very few gods that was able to bring a dead person

out of the underworld.

He is associated with the concept of rebirth after death

The Bacchae provides information about the rites at Thebes to a certain

degree. Here it has to be mentioned that Euripides presents us with a secret

cult, typically characteristic of the Greek Mysteries. The Bacchae can also

be seen have an "Orphic" interpretation. Dionysus himself says about the

secrecy of his cult: "It is forbidden to tell the uninitiated." The

practices have to be seen also in their aspects as sacred rites (hieros

logos) of the Dionysiac cult."

Io evohe" was his call (close to Iovah, Jawveh, Jehova)....

Many people Christians would be horrified to think that Jesus is in some way

a manifestation of Dionysus, but the parallels are complex and deep. Like

Jesus, Dionysus is a God in human form, who dies and is resurrected, born of

a mortal mother by a divine father. Like Jesus, Dionysus is a god whose

tragic passion is re-enacted by eating his flesh and drinking his blood.

Like Jesus, Dionysus is a miraculous god associated with the immortality of

the soul.

Persephone began weaving a great web, a robe for her father or her mother,

which was a picture of the whole world. While she was engaged in this work

Zeus came to her in the shape of a serpent, and he begat by his daughter

that god, Zagreus or Dionysos who, in the Orphic stories, was to be his

successor, the fifth ruler of the world. . The birth of the son and

successor to the throne actually took place in the maternal cave. A late

ivory relief shows the bed in the cave: the bed in which the horned child -

the horns signify attributes of the heavenly bull, the waxing and waning

(lunar) son of Persephone, the moon-goddess of the underworld - had just

been born. He is also crowned with serpents. . The Orphic story also named

the toys of the new ruler of the world: toys that became symbols of those

rites of initiation which were first undergone by the divine boy, the first

Dionysos: dice, ball, top, golden apples, bull-roarer and wool. The last two

played a part in the ceremony of initiation.

His mythical journeys to Egypt and to India can be identified both with the

generality of the same sacrificial fertility gods Osiris, Adonis and Tammuz

and even with Soma the Vedic moon god, the archetypal moon god of the sacred

potion of altered states, with which Dionysus shares a horned aspect. He is

'the nocturnal' who wears a dark star-spangled robe and a crescent-shaped

mitre, who in Phrygia is identified with the moon god Men. Soma is also

called "the deathless one" and "the raging one".

His identity as wine god may have emerged from a later importation of

viticulture from Phoenicia as the Tyrians attest. Osiris and Tammuz are

similarly associated with the vine.

His counterpart in the Indian lore is Shiva (check "Siva or Dyonysus" by

Alain Dalnielou)

Nadia

> Oh Athena!

>

> How since forever we felt kinship, as I said, as Plato had written, and

> so the Druids pointed, all to that same place, west of you there.

>

> I forgive the killer convert missionary who messed up Europe with his

> invented religion, but I hope to see some many turning their heads

> backwards with me and seeing all the beauty there, and strike a balance

> between the modern and the original.

>

> As the Vedas say, and as I think all good and peace loving people know,

> let the people's of the world stay within their boundaries and not

> invade each others lands. Well this is certainly no longer possible, or

> it's been over for a good while, giving rise to much mingling and war on

> grand scale.

>

> So now it's different than it ever was here, but still, everyone I come

> from, and everyone I love, in their old cultures, which were not so long

> ago, worshipped a pantheon of Gods of the planets, as well as the

> Supreme, as well as a few others related to nature usually, and believed

> in the cycle of rebirth, and other shared things. All of that seems very

> believable and natural to me, whereas, the tenets introduced by Paul,

> possibly Christ, and Judaeism, to me, are not natural, they don't seem

> correct, and I personally am not d there, to that line of faith

> in god in that way.

>

> Like Paul says that Idolotry is a "sin of the flesh", or in other words,

> coming from the body. And therefore, it gets abolished.

>

> Fine, it does come from the body. Is that so bad? Is it wrong for people

> to pray to God for things they want in life? Excuse me, but don't

> Christians do that all the time as well? All's he accomplished was got

> rid of knowledge of the planets, as well as a mood of our being related

> to all of nature intrinsically and spiritually, and replaced it with

> essentially nothing.

>

> So the new Christians, who used to be all these other things, go out the

> door of the new Church, with no cultural understandings left about life

> to guide their societies.

>

> I now live in a country where I do not know the names, addresses,

> telephone numbers, and nothing else at all of course, about any of my

> neighbors. Not because I don't have time, not because I'm scared, no,

> none of us are interested, because we're all so friggin different.

> There's no guarantee that we share anything at all in common in thought

> or interests.

>

> This America, it's like a global hotel. Everybody is checked into the

> various houses like hotel rooms, they pay their rent to the bank, which

> is ultimately owned uphill the private corporation owned by old families

> known as the Federal Reserve (it's neither), and in this way, you could

> be next door to someone with a completely different background, set of

> values and beliefs, and so on. So nobody bothers anymore. Nobody. I've

> lived in neighborhoods all over, and it's always the same in middle

> class neighborhoods, more or less, at least on the West Coast. It's

> really impersonal. If you realize private families profit from the

> entire economy through the federal reserve, that may explain why

> immigration into America is still being allowed despite most citizens

> complete upset at the growing congestion in the big cities due to the

> massive increase in numbers of foreignors over the years, combined with

> the countries own baby boom. The more taxpayers, the more profit, it's a

> worker thing, modern style slavery. The more you work, the better off

> they are, because they have more rooms of people paying rent to them.

>

> (Let it blow by. Conspiracy theories about the Fed abound. I'm just good

> at repeating them. I never bother thinking much about it. Unless you're

> willing to really be an underdog and live in prison or die, why bother.

> This kind of bantering is being done here by a handful, and I think they

> may be quite correct based on what I know about Trust and Corporate Law,

> but still, taking down the Fed? Uh, not a small task eh?)

>

> So no culture shared means no relationships, unfortunately. Everyone is

> alone in their houses and apartments next door to each other, but it's

> taboo to knock, cuzz YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT ANSWER THE DOOR.... THEY

> MIGHT EVEN BE, huh, BLACK !!!! or WHITE !!!!! or HARE

> KRISHNA !!!!!

>

> One reason I loved being in Hare Krishna, was wherever I went I had

> instant family. That was so nice. All over the world, instant friends as

> soon as you arrive at any temple. So cool.

>

> The Celts, Greeks and Indians were all in heavy communication back then,

> and that's probably why they advanced in many similar things, but of

> course, India's just a friggin storehouse of all the sciences...

>

> Galatia, interestingly, is really a Celtic/Greek enclave is it not?

>

> Kindof special, a bit of both worlds, correct?

>

> By the way, I'm into all these things because of how they relate to the

> history of spiritual ontology on this planet.

>

> One person asked privately why I'm being so mundane about my bodily

> ancestry. That is not at all my interest. I do not see life that way.

> I'm into this for fun a wee bit sure, but mainly for the interesting

> aspects of the philosophical stuff... how much was common, WHAT was

> common, how it enhances my understanding of life and truth, and so on. I

> don't really think I'm a Celt. We pretty much know that Celtic blood is

> pretty much a myth in way, for a long time now. Really nobody can know

> they have original Celtic blood. It's been so intermarried for thousands

> of years.

>

> I really should go find a house. Gotta move. Life is a vacuum cleaner

> for me these years. It just kinda s)(*)_()(+ all the time, and that's

> about it. It's not my fault, it's my karma ;-*

>

June 17, 2002

Let's keep "awake". Rememberance...

Here is a text illustrating this idea. It's a little jewel (Ratna!)

Nadia

The Green Face

By Gustav Meyrink

The key that will make us masters of our inner nature has been rusty ever

since the Flood. The secret is to be awake.To be awake is everything. Man is

firmly convinced that he is awake; in reality he is caught in a net of sleep

and dreams which he has unconsciously woven himself. The tighter the net,the

heavier he sleeps. Those who are trapped in its meshes are the sleepers who

walk through life like cattle being led to the slaughterhouse, indifferent

and without a thought in their heads. Seen through the meshes, the world

appears to the dreamers like a piece of lattice-work: they only see

misleading apertures, act accordingly, and are unaware that what they see

are simply the debris of an enormous whole. These dreamers are not, as you

may perhaps think, dwellers in a world of fantasy and poets. They are the

everyday men, the workers, the restless ones, consumed by a mad desire for

restelssness. They are like those beetles which laboriously climb all the

way up along a pipe, only to plunge down into it again as soon as they have

reached the top. They say they are awake, but what they think life is, is

really only a dream, every detail of which is fixed in advance and

independent of their free will.

There have been, and still are, a few men who have known that they were

dreaming.

To be awake is everything.

The first step towards this state is so simple that any child could take it.

Only those who have been misled have forgotten how to walk, and stay

paralyzed on their two feet because they do not want to throw away the

crutches they have inherited from their predecessors.

To be awake is everything.

Keep awake whatever you are doing! Do not imagine that you are already

awake. No - you are asleep and dreaming.

Gather all your strength together and fill your body for a moment with the

feeling (but not the thought !!): Now I am awake !

If you can do this successfully, then you will at once perceive that the

state in which you were before was merely one of somnolence. This is the

first step on the long, long journey that leads from servitude to freedom.

Go on, then, advancing from one awakening to another. There are no

tormenting thoughts that you cannot in this way get rid of. They will be

left behind and will not be able to trouble you any more. You will be as

high above them as the crown of a tree is above the withered branches below.

Your pains will fall away from you like dead leaves from a tree when you

feel your whole body, mind and soul is awake.

The Brahmans' icy baths, the sleepless nights of the disciples of Buddha and

the Christian ascetics, the self-inflicted tortures of the Hindu fakirs are

othing other that the ossified rites which indicate that it was here that

the temple of those who strove to stay awake originally stood.

Read the sacred writings of all the peoples on Earth. Through all of them

runs, like a red thread, the hidden Science of attaining and maintaining

wakefulness. It is the ladder of Jacob who fought all through the "night"

(sleep) with the angel of the Lord until the "day" (wakefulness) broke and

he was victorious.

You must climb from one rung to another if you want to conquer death.

The lowest rung is called: genius.

What are we to call the higher ones ? They are hidden from the mass of

mankind and looked upon as legends.

The story of Troy was thought to be a legend until one day a man had the

courage to start excavating by himself.

The first enemy you will meet with on this road to wakefulness will be your

own body. It will fight you until the first cock-crow. But if you can

glimpse the dawn of eternal wakefulness which will put a gulf between you

and those somnambulists who think that they are men and who are unaware that

they are gods asleep, then sleep will leave your body too, and the Universe

will be at your feet.

Then you will be able to work miracles, if you wish so, and you will no

longer be compelled, like a humble slave, to wait until some god or goddess

is kind enough to shower gifts upon you, or to cut off your head.

This goal can and must be attained in this life. But even if this does not

happen, remember that he who has found the way once, always returns to this

world with an internal maturity that enables him to continue his work.