Guest guest Posted July 30, 2002 Report Share Posted July 30, 2002 Hi everyone, I read recently that a man was sentenced to death in Pakistan for saying something against the koran and the prophet.Every year,hundreds of people are executed under Pakistan's blasphemy laws.The same is true of other Islamic countries as well. Under Islamic laws,if you say even one word which goes against the koran or the prophet's teachings,you get the death penalty.Besides,if any four muslim men testify that you committed blasphemy,it is deemed to be true,even if you deny it.In Pakistan,this law is freely used as a means of revenge and blackmail. What a religion Islam is!! By the way,astrology is strictly prohibited in Islam as only Allah knows the past,present and future.to say that you know the future is blasphemy.By Islamic laws, we are all liable for the death penalty. In Islam,so many things are blasphemy,that you wonder if you can do anything at all. WHAT A RELIGION!! Yours, vivek. ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2002 Report Share Posted July 31, 2002 Dear Vivek Even though I do not know much about Islam but I tend to think that it is the mis-interpretation of the Religion Islam. I just do not beleive that 'The Holy Quran' says what people are doing . SOME people are only bending the religion for their convenience. I understand Islam and Christianity are inter related. For that matter all religions are inter related. In fact the word Re-ligion meand 'To relaize' that 'You are God' yourself. You are one with the God, 'Aham Brahma Asmi'. I trust and beleive that all religions have 'Sathya, Dharma, Shanti, Prema and Ahimsa' say. 'Truth, Right Conduct, Peace, Love and Non-Violence' as the roots of the religion. As soon one deviates from these values, one ceases to follow ANY RELIGION. Love Ravinder Grover - vivek <keviv90 <gjlist> Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:26 PM [GJ] What a religion! > Hi everyone, > I read recently that a man was sentenced to death in > Pakistan for saying something against the koran and > the prophet.Every year,hundreds of people are executed > under Pakistan's blasphemy laws.The same is true of > other Islamic countries as well. > Under Islamic laws,if you say even one word which goes > against the koran or the prophet's teachings,you get > the death penalty.Besides,if any four muslim men > testify that you committed blasphemy,it is deemed to > be true,even if you deny it.In Pakistan,this law is > freely used as a means of revenge and blackmail. > What a religion Islam is!! > By the way,astrology is strictly prohibited in Islam > as only Allah knows the past,present and future.to say > that you know the future is blasphemy.By Islamic laws, > we are all liable for the death penalty. > In Islam,so many things are blasphemy,that you wonder > if you can do anything at all. > WHAT A RELIGION!! > Yours, > vivek. > > > ______________________ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos. > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2002 Report Share Posted July 31, 2002 Dear Vivek, Each person and each group will do according to his/its own understanding...there is room in this world for those of fundamentalist belief, since life is dynamic rather than static; there is room for growth in love and tolerance by the Muslims and by the rest of the world as well. That is the lesson all are to learn! Love, Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2002 Report Share Posted July 31, 2002 Dear Ravinder, I do not know much about Islam either.Perhaps as you say,what is happening is a misrepresentation and misuse of the real Islam.But it is also true that the blasphemy law that I mentioned,is followed in all Islamic countries. I am not against any religion.Every person has his or her religious belief and following according to the person's karma.(maybe my post was a bit offensive to the Islamic religion --- sorry about that). All religions teach truth,compassion,tolerance, universal brotherhood,etc ---- very true. BUT-- It is also true that the religions contradict each other.---- One believes that the soul is ever existing,eternal and part and parcel of god.another believes that you were created by god.---- One believes in reincarnation by karma.another does not believe in it but believes in a day of judgement followed by being awarded with heaven or hell for ever. My point is that both cannot be true.If one is true, then the other is false. --- It is nice to be sentimental and say that all religions are nice and good and it does'nt matter which path you follow.All lead to the Almighty God. --- But it does not suit a genuine seeker of truth.A seeker of truth has to be discriminating and logical. Coming back to the topic of my post,The subject should have been "what a misuse of religion" instead of "what a religion" ----Regards,vivek. --- Ravinder Grover <astrology wrote: > Dear Vivek > > Even though I do not know much about Islam but I > tend to think that it is > the mis-interpretation of the Religion Islam. I > just do not beleive that > 'The Holy Quran' says what people are doing . SOME > people are only bending > the religion for their convenience. > > I understand Islam and Christianity are inter > related. For that matter all > religions are inter related. In fact the word > Re-ligion meand 'To relaize' > that 'You are God' yourself. You are one with the > God, 'Aham Brahma Asmi'. > I trust and beleive that all religions have 'Sathya, > Dharma, Shanti, Prema > and Ahimsa' say. 'Truth, Right Conduct, Peace, Love > and Non-Violence' as the > roots of the religion. As soon one deviates from > these values, one ceases > to follow ANY RELIGION. > > Love > > Ravinder Grover > > - > vivek <keviv90 > <gjlist> > Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:26 PM > [GJ] What a religion! > > > > Hi everyone, > > I read recently that a man was sentenced to death > in > > Pakistan for saying something against the koran > and > > the prophet.Every year,hundreds of people are > executed > > under Pakistan's blasphemy laws.The same is true > of > > other Islamic countries as well. > > Under Islamic laws,if you say even one word which > goes > > against the koran or the prophet's teachings,you > get > > the death penalty.Besides,if any four muslim men > > testify that you committed blasphemy,it is deemed > to > > be true,even if you deny it.In Pakistan,this law > is > > freely used as a means of revenge and blackmail. > > What a religion Islam is!! > > By the way,astrology is strictly prohibited in > Islam > > as only Allah knows the past,present and future.to > say > > that you know the future is blasphemy.By Islamic > laws, > > we are all liable for the death penalty. > > In Islam,so many things are blasphemy,that you > wonder > > if you can do anything at all. > > WHAT A RELIGION!! > > Yours, > > vivek. > > > > > > > ______________________ > > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos > Classifieds. It's Free!! > > visit http://in.autos. > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > Sat > > : > gjlist- > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat > Sat > : > gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2002 Report Share Posted July 31, 2002 Re. Islam, Christianity In both, esp. Islam, due to the lack of real philosophy that works on Earth for people the way they are, they instead force an unnatural set of "pure" habits and lifestyle on people, which basically has everything tasty, interesting, and pleasant removed, and the people under such have to live in fear of having any natural impulses, acting on them, or even thinking or saying new ideas. This is because, simply, to hold together something nobody likes, you have to do it with total fear. It's very similar to a military regime in a country, or the Police, etc. People in these religions do and follow these things out of "fear of God". How often have we been taught these silly Paulist/Moses/Gabriel stuff that teaches us to fear God, fear our bodies, fear our thoughts, etc. It's just to hold together a cult. Islam and Christianity are both started as full on religions, capable of delivering you supposedly to the eternal life, but they are in conflict, and so they cannot both be right. Also, how silly. You see, like I said yesterday, it is time for these religions to go. Both Christianity and Islam. Did you see the photo of the young boys in the street of Kabul, looking at pictures of Indian models? Lust is universal, it's normal, because it's the presence of the seeking of reciprocation, which is in for divine reasons, and we have to learn to relate, that's what it is for! To deny it simply means to not make progress on it. There's no taste in being devoted to an unseen God who allows no taste in this life! Hence, priests having sex, with whatever! By the way, all prostitutes in England and near to Arabia in all European countries will tell you that Arab men, shieks, the one's with four wives and such, they come, and they are horny, and agressive, and totally into white meat, and completely drueling over it, paying for it, fucking it, and then going home to where in their country such things are fully illegal. In other words, like Americans go to Las Vegas to play (not me), so Arabs go to Amsterdam, Switzerland, anywhere prostitution is legal. They are no different than any other men. And lets not talk about real sex, do you think they aren't masturbating? They are. From the presidents and Mulas on down. This is a world of fakes and illusions, period. Islam is a joke as a religion. I've read the Koran. It contains next to no information that is at all helpful or new. It's a bad read-alike of the old testament. It could only be meaningful to you if you are an Arab. Which brings me back to my point- religions based on one person, are called Cults. They worship and follow this one person. Islam tried to wipe this out with "no states or pictures", but who you gonna QUOTE and FOLLOW, is what's important. Other people just prefer to look at the persons face that is totally running their lives. Muslims would rather not see his face. OK. I hate this world because it is so life negative. All around me are confused and sick people and if they go for help to ANY religious worker, there just gonna get "Jesus", the same old non-working junk. Of course, there are many people that agree with me, thank God, and they are generally much more happy, peaceful, and healthier than their counterparts. I have no problem saying Islam is backwards to me. It's not the same as India at all, where there, in Hinduism, people do not feel this absolute preassure of one life and hell, and so forth. You can say or do whatever you want in India, and America. These are countries "for the people", democracies, and one is the leader in Spirit, the other the leader in Matter. Arabia and such Islamic countries lead only in opression of their peoples, which we see proven when their rich come to our freer countries. Oh, by the way, the most expensive prostitute in Switzerland, she's $15,000 a night, she said on TV that Arab men are especially fond of taking small video tapes of their sessions with her. Why? Small because they search you and take such "illegal items", secondly, then they can watch themselves fucking a white swiss chick over and over while jacking off. Yes, it's simple. Then they go give big donations to Osama to kill those sick Westerners who put pussy on TV. What did they do in Zurich? They filmed pussy for themselves. Happens alot. Hypocrisy. It's called "Holy Smoke", because it's just hot air. Osama isn't interested in the Koran, and neither are any the big leaders in any field there. They just touch it to their head and that's it. It's like Christians, they do whatever they want, to us, each other, the world, etc. How many "Christians" work in businesses that produce weapons that kill people? Tons. But that's against their religion! The hypocrisy and lieing is unending in Kali Yuga. And sastra says, the only way to dharma in this age is to start with truth. Like I said, it's the time for techniques and knowledge, not these kind of ancient fear based control oriented religions. By the way, for those who have not read the Koran, let me tell you some things briefly. Firstly, the whole authority for the religion comes not from Mohamed, but Gabriel, the angel. You see, supposedly, Mohamed had constant regular audience with this "Arch Angel" for days, and those teachings the angel said are what is in the Koran as the "right to exist". Mohamed was just a regular guy, pissed off at his powerful wife, so he would hang out in the cave in the hills, where he supposedly met Gabriel. Then, when he had gather enough followers, when it was just enough to guarantee a win in overthrowing Medina (a city near Mecca), then they did that. In other words, he taught, and then their first action, his first goal, was to capture the power over a city, and make it Islamic. Then, when they had enough power from that, he turned his sites on Mecca, which he also took. In other words, from day one it was a militant religion with aims at controlling politics as well as religion. The State is the Church in these places, so to speak, hence the Police even enforce, to the death, the "religious laws". Think of that- how do you reason "law" and "religion" together. You know how we talk, and know, that astrology works, and we know that progress is made slowly over lifetimes, and we see it's true, practically speaking, so this relies on the freedoms God makes apparent here, and like a baby learning to walk, falls are inevitable, but in Islam, you're dead if you fall. This is not religion, this is BEING WITH God. They are dealing like "we're there", but obviously we're not. Therefore in my opinion they have no clear Sidhanta or Sandharba. Conclusions, declarations, philosophy. No, it's just all emotion, sentiment, fanaticism. Notice the countries that spawn suicide bombers: Japan and Islam. These countries are fanatical. Go to either and see it and feel it. Recently I talked to a youth in Karachi Pakistan over the phone. He was perhaps say 20 years old, and spoke perfect English, fluently, with slang, everything. He told me quite clearly that: All his friends agree with this All youths of any brains in Paki agree with this They are Indians, not Pakistanis They prefer to identify themselves as Indians, and he said the reason literally was "why would I want to identify with a 50 year old thing when I can identify with a5000 year old thing. Further, when I mentioned restrictions and such and religion He blew it off like "phhhhh, oh brother, give me a break", ie, total disregard, could care less So it's just talk. A few fanatics who are hypocrites. Our servicemen, should they be engaged again in a real way against Arabs, could know, oh well, it's gonna happen to these folks sooner or later, which is true. I've always said to friends, and maybe on this list, that two places have explosive futures due to present ignorance and denial: China/ArabCountries. These two have to still go through their change phase from way old ideas which use ALOT of opression to keep peaple artificially "good citizens". My sister, God cries, is becoming a Rabbi. I asked her why, and her response was: "The Jewish community here is my family!" with happiness and joy, because this woman has found none forever, doesn't fit in, but the dinky Jewish community in Fresno sure loves that she runs the place for them. So, she's in. Her and her half white-half Jordanean daughter run the Freson Beth Israel temple, and they are new converts. That's why. Thats the real reason why. Community feels good. I don't have any, so I know. But, that's NOT religion. Community is a now thing, a thing of this world. Religion is about techniques for reviving some sort of lost consciousness and lifestyle which when re-established will help us, or lead us, to a better place. Naturally, that should include all information, not partial, and for the sake of understanding, one needs access to self-proof, experimentation, etc. The great thinkers and philosophers often actually did weird things as tests. That's how they learned. Like Newton dropping an Apple out of window. Not the usual use of an Apple, crunch. There is another way of doing life, which I'm pushing, which is based on knowledge, science, mutually granted freedoms, etc. This is what's happening in America today. Here in Eugene, one cal learn from Sihks, Muslims, Jews, Christians, and all types of New Agers. The latter has the healthiest looking members, because actually caring about yourself, your body, mind, spirit, is actually a part of the new age movement, and not those archaeic Jewish based relgions. Like a favorite Kelt Author says: The bible is at best a national history for a small nomadic tribe. It pails in comparison to Druidic knowledge or Hindu knowledge. By the way, prostitues who live near Hare Krishna temples often point out to lower Hare Krishna clients that the big guy comes there too. I've heard it from a few devotees- they say stuff like "Yeah, the guys with the funny underwear and Robes". Oh my god, they even go in their saffron cloth. Then preach to the Brahmacaris not to even THINK of woman. Truth is where it all starts. If people would admit their real positions, they would see they need basic Sadhanas, basic things to help them control their senses and minds. Then meditation, knowledge, bhakti, etc. It's a training program in Hinduism. It's not absolute, and everything is acceptable. They even give instructions for homosexuality, stealing wives, and have sex. The fact is, people are going to do these things, so you you might as well do them correctly. (The latter two I've personally seen in old Indian books, the first I was told was there, but I haven't seen it. Sex and wife stealing are both covered in the Kama Sutra. This is not really a scripture, but it's an example of the open minded ways of the Hindu culture.) Tons of souls are stuck in utter oppression on Earth still. It's very sad to see for souls. -- Das Goravani , President 2852 Willamette St, #353 Eugene, Oregon, 97405 USA Voice: or <> Home of "Goravani Jyotish" Vedic Astrology Software , and more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2002 Report Share Posted July 31, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Vaasudevaya Dear Raghu, That was a great dose of 'Jupiterian' energy mixed witha alot of Venus (Jupiter aspects Venus in Lagna..) and later witha lot of Saturn...Finally, the martian regulation of lists did also show up..These skeletons are still in your cupboard. Throw them out. Akbar ruled India not because of his prowess but due to the Rajputs killing Mirabai..we Jyotisha understand this, and know that it is just a matter of time. So long as it is a linear scale of time, we are still doing Jyotish, when it becomes a circular time scale, then we are into philosophy.. Finally, it is OM TAT SAT. With best wishes Sanjay Rath http://sanjayrath.tripod.com <http://sanjayrath.tripod.com> Das Goravani [] Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:33 PM gjlist Re: [GJ] Re: What a religion! I'm sorry for introducing myself this way but can we please keep castigation of religion and religious ideals and practices out of this list? I'm not sure how relevant this is to what this list is about. idg. Hi, and thanks for your opinion. Personally, I feel, that astrologers must know this stuff too. Otherwise, how can you know what's going through the head of people you meet in life, Islamic, or whatever they are. Since I've read the Koran (very boring and tedious), I know what Islam is really about. It's about basic religion, ie, similar to Christianity, and then it's about politics. Their idea of heaven includes sense gratification, quite clearly, at least for the silly. Like "getting served by blacked eyed virgins", is appealing to Arab men, but I say, the fact that their virgins means nobody is having sex with them, right? So don't get lusty for heaven dude! When you see heaven described as containing things which are localized on Earth, then you know you're dealing with less than a really "thinking" religion. Religion should be bigger than local. And if it says nonbelievers go to an eternal hell, then you can know for sure, just drop the damn thing in the trash. I say, lets stack up all the bibles in the United states, and burn 'em. Keep some, so people in the future can look back on the crazy ideas. Similarly, in Arab states, some of them castrate girls. They can never have a normal clitoral orgasm ever. This is good for sex, because they go longer.... funner for men. Oh, that's not why they do it though, no no no. Perhaps it's just a sign, like circumcision, at their way of dealing with this issue of sex: If you don't understand it and haven't mastered it, just kill it, ie, cut pieces of it off before the person can move or voice an opinion. I didn't even know "foreskin" existed until quite late in childhood. Now I realize that "collar" just behind my dicks head, is actually a big fuckin SKAR that was put there when I was 1 second old. Hows that for imprint of sexual dysfunction? We know so much more these days. Jesus! I can't wait for the world to actually implement truth and sensability. Sorry, -- Das Goravani , President 2852 Willamette St, #353 Eugene, Oregon, 97405 USA Voice: or <> Home of "Goravani Jyotish" Vedic Astrology Software , and more... Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat : gjlist- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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